Marlin 30-30

[JudgeBAC]

I've been having a challenging time with my Marlin 336 CS shooting cast boolits. After trying several different weights and styles and diameters, I was still not obtaining acceptable results. My best groups were 2.5" and worse. This is with a 2 x 7 scope mounted.

Finally it dawned on me this morning at my loading bench to measure my cases. Duh, they were way over length. What a senior moment. You would think that after loading for 35+ years that would be the first thing to check.

Your brain really does start to deteriorate after age 50. Oh well, off to trim some brass reload and see what happens.

[JDL]

Judge,
All my .30-30s, Winchester and Marlin have very long chambers in the neck area. Marlin 336SC is 2.118", 336A is 2.095", and Winchester 94 is 2.100". If the necks ever get close, I'll trim them back .010" from their max length. You may want to check the barrel band screws for overtightness if problems persist although, 2.5" at 100 yards isn't too bad. Have you checked the bore for tight spots? I think that Ranch Dog found some had them. HTH
JDL

[EDK]

I've just got serious about loading 30/30s. I have a micro groove barrel RC and a ballard rifled Cowboy rifle.

I am curious why the books show factory case length at 2.039, but a trim-to-length of 2.028

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[felix]

Books show maximum case size dimensions for the minimum production chamber size. Custom guns typically are made exactly to the specified minimum chamber for the caliber. BR guns can and almost always go significantly below the minimum. So, if ever buying a BR gun, you must KNOW the chambering to a Tee so you can make cases to match. ... felix

[w30wcf]

Judge,
Based on my past experience, your varying case lengths probably have a very minimal impact on group sizes.

What have you tried with regards to:

bullets / diameters?
alloy?
Rifle groove / bore diameter?
loads?

w30wcf

[JudgeBAC]

After more experimentation and reading back over old notes and old targets, I found that any boolit over .309 will not chamber in this rifle. Apparently, I have a pretty tight chamber.

My best success so far is with the RCBS 180 gr. FN (mine weigh 194 gr with lube and gascheck) and 30.3 grs of Accurate MRP. The best group with that load was 1.275 " 3 shots at 100 yards with a 2 x 7 Leupold.

One thing I have discovered is shoot three shot group then wait at least 5 mins or more before shooting the next group. Even though I cannot discern any heat after three shots, if I try to immediately shoot another group I get flyers.

Hopefully, I can get out to the range again next week and see what happens.

[JDL]

After more experimentation and reading back over old notes and old targets, I found that any boolit over .309 will not chamber in this rifle. Apparently, I have a pretty tight chamber.

My best success so far is with the RCBS 180 gr. FN (mine weigh 194 gr with lube and gascheck) and 30.3 grs of Accurate MRP. The best group with that load was 1.275 " 3 shots at 100 yards with a 2 x 7 Leupold.

One thing I have discovered is shoot three shot group then wait at least 5 mins or more before shooting the next group. Even though I cannot discern any heat after three shots, if I try to immediately shoot another group I get flyers.

Hopefully, I can get out to the range again next week and see what happens.

This makes me believe that the barrel is binding somewhere, either forearm or barrel bands. I would try loosening the band screws first as that's the easiest. Then, if that doesn't correct the problem, releive some of the barrel channel in the forearm.
Just remember that the 336 is a hunting rifle and after 3 shots, the game is long gone, or you are going to be buisy skinning 3 deer.:-) I consider any lever producing consistant 2 MOA groups to be quite adequate for their intended purposes, although I, like everybody else, would like them a little more precise.
JDL

[jimkim]

There is an old thread on the CBA forum about this same thing.
Linoww wrote:

I am loading for a Marlin 336 CS 30-30 with Microgroove barrel.Its been about 10 years since I played with one like it.It seems like my last one preferred rather big(.312) bullets.I cannot chamber anything over .310 in this chamber.I haven't shot it yet,but was surprised by the "tight" neck in the rifle.Are others similar to mine?
George

Ed Harris wrote:

Many are. You will need to cast the chamber, but .330-.332 is normal for a .30-30. That limits you to .310 bullets unless you turn necks VERY thin, less than 0.010 which makes them too fragile to be practical. Use a .32 H&R Mag. reamer and run it in just enough to enlarge the neck to .337-.339 and rethroat the existing forcing SAAMI cone. That enables .313 bullets and 0.012 case neck wall thickness.
http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=2460&forum_id=18

[gon2shoot]

My 336 straight stock RC likes .309 boolits. I'm using 165gr FN.
I've been playing with a 4198 load (yeh I know, but it's showing promise)

Maybe when "the chosen one" gets me unemployed I'll have more time to play with load development. :cry:

[jimkim]

My 336 straight stock RC likes .309 boolits. I'm using 165gr FN.
I've been playing with a 4198 load (yeh I know, but it's showing promise)

Maybe when "the chosen one" gets me unemployed I'll have more time to play with load development. :cry:

Is there something wrong with IMR-4198? :???: I want to know. No kidding, if there is something I don't know tell me.

[gon2shoot]

Not for me, but a lot of my "associates" laugh at me for using it.
I look for what works at reasonable FPS and pressures for cast, I have a lot of young guys working for me that are in to the supershortwhizzbangultrafrontpagegimmik loads.

Of course they cant belive people still shoot 30-30s or 45colts either

[NVcurmudgeon]

Is there something wrong with IMR-4198? :???: I want to know. No kidding, if there is something I don't know tell me.

Let me be the first, of no doubt, many to reassure you that IMR 4198 is an excellent powder for a whole heap of rifle cast boolit loads. It is my preferred powder in .30/40 Krag and .35 Rem. I haven't loaded it in .30/30, but I don't load much .30/30. It's just that I found accurate loads with Unique, Green Dot, and 2400 and quit looking.

[jimkim]

Thanks I thought I had missed something there for a minute. I like what works too, and I also catch grief from the "speed demon" crowd. I like being able to hit what I'm aiming at and have the least amount of wear as possible on my equipment. Saving money on powder is also really nice.

[felix]

21 grains 4198 using up to and including 180s in 30-30 is indeed a good load for accuracy and power. ... felix

[northmn]

I haven't tried 4198 in my 30-30 but use a very similar Re7 with good results. Would not hesitate to try 4198. Some of you people have had better results with slower powders and cast than I have. My SMLE likes powder no slower than 3031 and I think would do better with either 4198 or Re7. It might be because I use a little softer alloy for deer hunting. If a Marlin 20" barrel is grouping at 2" you have a very good load.

Northmn

[Throckmorton]

my quite old Marlin shot like a scatter gun ..actually worse..until I got ALL,and I man ALL of the old jacket material out of the bore.What you cannot see can and does affect accuracy I found out.

[Boomer Mikey]

4198 and 4895 are two of the most versatile powders you can get; you can use 4198 for reduced loads and full power loads with great success from 22 Hornet to 458 Winmag. The new "short cut" Hodgdon version is also in the extreme series of powders that's been developed to maintain a stable burn rate over a wide range of temperatures.

Boomer :Fire:

[jaydee1445]

336s have bore restrictions @ both sights and the barrel band that really messes with accurcy. Slug the barrel with a over size pure lead sinker. Use a big hammer to start in the muzzel end and drive it with a just undersize brass rod. You can feel the restrictions.
Fire lap the barrel to even it up and it will be a different gun. Slug again to fit your bullets to the barrel.

For the whole story get Marshal Stanton's cast bullet technical gide @ beartoothbullits.com (http://www.beartoothbullets.com)

[WyrTwister]

21 grains 4198 using up to and including 180s in 30-30 is indeed a good load for accuracy and power. ... felix


When I first started loading bottle neck rifle calibers , I thought of 4198 as a small caliber powder , since that is what my father in law shot in .223 . Figured it had to be fast burning for a fast projectile .

Now this makes me wonder , will WC846 work in .30-30 ? It is a surplus powder said to be equivalent to Ball-C ?

God bless
Wyr

[jimkim]

From what I've been told WC-846 is loaded with BL-C(2). BL-C(2) is one of the better 30-30 powders.

[WyrTwister]

From what I've been told WC-846 is loaded with BL-C(2). BL-C(2) is one of the better 30-30 powders.


Does any one have any loading data for .30-30 & WC 846 , for cast bullets .

I studied the Lyman book and guessed at 29 grains for a low starting load , but have not tried them yet . Seated as far out as would chamber in a Winny M 94 with .312" cast bullets . About 180 grain , IIRC ?

God bless
Wyr

[JIMinPHX]

Funny, my Marlin 30-30 shoots cast better than j-word bullets. I use 150 grain GCFP over RE7 at around 2300fps.

[felix]

29 grains is about right. Just in case you have a fast lot, start at 27 instead. If the fired balls are significantly smaller than the unfired balls, you are in the proper burn range. If just slightly smaller, you are starting in the proper range. If no balls left, i.e., dust, you are either past optimum or just a little over. Assume there will be no balls left in barrel if pressure went over 40K. Talking about distinct looking balls, not dust. The powder will easily tolerate 55K, but that is way over for your gun. ... felix

[JIMinPHX]

29 grains is about right. Just in case you have a fast lot, start at 27 instead. If the fired balls are significantly smaller than the unfired balls, you are in the proper burn range. If just slightly smaller, you are starting in the proper range. If no balls left, i.e., dust, you are either past optimum or just a little over. Assume there will be no balls left in barrel if pressure went over 40K. Talking about distinct looking balls, not dust. The powder will easily tolerate 55K, but that is way over for your gun. ... felix

Felix, you have completely lost me. What are you talking about?

[felix]

Ball powders burn from the outside in, unlike the flake powders and tubular powers because they typically have small holes and balls do not. Flattened balls are normal balls mashed enough to change the burn rate to be faster to meet a certain "spec". Your specific powder you have might be of either configuration. The SIZE of the burnt powder will determine how much of it was burnt. Ball powders are high pressure powders by design, and don't require heavy duty coatings to for their adjustment to meet a burn curve. 231 is an exception because of its irregular shapes en masse. Look down the barrel after a string of shots to determine the size of the remaining balls. ... felix