Lathe Recomendation Please

[jonkzak]

Folks,

I currently have a Southbend 9" 3-1/2' Model A and I really love it, but the bore diameter of the spindle negates using this lathe for barrel work.

Thus I'm in the market for an additional new lathe with a larger bore in the spindle. I'm kinda stuck between a belt drive 12x36 (Grizzley) or a gear driven 12x36. Price is about the same for either. Which would be better? Any other models I should be considering?

Also another difference is the spindle / chuck attachment. One is 2-1/4 x 8 threaded and the gear driven is D1-4. I've never owned a D1 spindle and was wondering if they were considered better and able to hold tolerance like the threaded spindles?

Thanks for you response.

JJ

[codgerville@zianet.com]

I also have a South Bend model A, mine has 4 1/2 ft. bed and that is long enough to do barrel work. I don't know much about the Grizzly line, but for myself I would prefer the threaded spindle over the" D " cam-lock. Is either lathe variable speed? That would be the best, if available.

[lmcollins]

I have had two new lathes since the mid 70's. The first one was an Atlas 12 x 36, and the second one is a Grizzley 12 x 36. I changed machines in the late 90's.

I cannot see why anyone would prefer a belt drive machine. My latest machine has a D1-4 spindle. I like it more by far. The trouble with a threaded spindle is that when you find the need to run it counterclockwise the damn thing can unscrew, drop on the lathe bed, bang it up, and give you a real smash-up.

Don't buy anything less than 12 x 36. Actually, I wish mine were a 40 incher. I did several rebarrle jobs with my Atlas, and loved many thingsd about it. It was great for threadiing since its low speed was something like 28 RPM. I had the set of intermediary gears to run metric and bastard threads, and the taper attachement, and milling attachment. The milling attachment wasn't worth much, it wasn't very ridgid, and you are feeding things into backwrds in many cases. I did make a setop to open bolt faces using as a mount for a grinder I made up.

I think that my Grizzley only went down to 60 RPM, and for me that is too darn fast for course threading, and I don't know how you would ever do metrics because of spindle run-on. I modified things by going to a three phase moter and frequency controler. I did several rebarrel jobs on the Atlas, and wish I'd had the space for two. Whatever you buy get what yopu want for attachments when you buy it, or you may never be able to get them. Also, don't buy anything that you cannot eventually use 5C collets with.

If you have any specific's I'd be glad to try and answer them for you.

FYI: I never had my hands on a lathe until I bought oneand got it set up. I learned it all from books, and just doped things out for myself. The quallity of your set-up is very important. Read everything you can find.

[JIMinPHX]

Belt heads tend to be a bit smoother. Gear heads change speeds easier & sometimes have a bit more sac. Screw on chucks are the old style & I still like them, but the D-backs are safer to run. You can do barrel work on that little SB you have if you know how to use a steady rest correctly, but a bigger, newer machine makes it a whole lot easier. As was said, 5-C collets are nice to have & if it's 3-phase, then a frequency controller will give you all kinds of speed control. Single phase frequency controls are like hen's teeth to find. Contrary to what some people will tell you, a creative person can change a threading box from metric to imperial or visa-versa by adding a few carefully chosen gears to the head stock on most stud & gear drive lathes. Getting the right gearbox up front will save you a whole lot of hassle.

[Buckshot]

.............Millions of things were made on threaded nose lathes, but time DOES march on and occasionaly there ARE positive improvements. The positive attachment spindle noses were one. My 11" Logan has an L00 spindle nose, and while a good idea allowing you to turn in either direction, it too has fallen from favor to the A and D series means of attachment.

Speaking of threading, I do 90% of my external threading on the backside with the spindle in reverse. The lowest backgear speed is 45 rpm but I run the spindle at a pretty good clip as you get a nicer finish. Besides, there's nothing down there to the right except the tailstock so you have gobs of time to trip out the half nuts.

I'll second the motion to get the 5C collet closer and nose adaptor (if required) with the lathe! I've never run a gear head lathe, but I've seen and heard them run. It also seems to be the way 98% of the lathes are built these days. Mine has a 2" wide poly-V belt turning the spindle and I've yet to have it slip, and it is VERY quiet running.

...................Buckshot

[trevj]

Looked at the Grizz "Gunsmith's Lathe"? There was a good write up and review of it in Home Shop Machinist a while back.

Apparently the owner of Grizzly is a benchrest guy, and specc'd the machine to suit what he wanted.

Cheers
Trev

[jonkzak]

I did read the article in HSM about the Grizzley lathe. I also read an article where a gent utilized different main drive pullies to address the low speed issue with the gear head. He just increased the ratio on the main drive and achieved 25 rpm in back gear.

I'm as well leaning towards the belt for the simple reason that a belt is a lot cheaper to replace than gears if you have a head crash. Normally my ole Southbend belt will slip if I try to push it too hard. Always looked at this as good relief valve when I get a little too anxious and start trying to take way too heavy cuts.
As well on the flip side it slows me down quite a bit. How are the belt drive 12 x 36'ers with heavy cuts?

Jury still out on the D1 head. I did notice that a back plate for a chuck in threaded is around $50 as compared to around $100 for a D1, price of poker just went up... Sounds like the D1 is as accurate as the threaded...

Neither are variable speed. Now I get all the movement to 3 phase. I've always looked at it as a pain having to convert to single phase to run on house current. This have kept me away from many a good buy on older machines. Now that I've seen the light I'm all in for 3 phase and a Variable Freq. drive, but first the lathe.

Thanks for all of the thought provoking responses. Got my money and it is burning a hole in my pocket so I better do something fast or I'll blow it all on guns...

JJ

[lathesmith]

I'm not sure how the myth got started that the Grizzly G4003 gear-head lathe(and clones) don't use a drive belt, but I can assure you that this is indeed a MYTH. On this class of machines, there is either a dual V-belt or a single 5/8 V-belt that installs between the motor and the gear head. I don't cinch this belt down very tight, and if you have a tool crash into the chuck this belt will slip, sparing the lathe any serious damage.
I also hear the nonsense that the Gear head is MUCH louder than a belt driven lathe. Once again, when I compare apples-to-apples, and run my HF gear head without the power-feed gear box engaged, and compare the noise level to my much smaller belt-driven lathe, there really isn't much difference in noise levels at all. Another myth bites the dust....
Cam-lock or threaded? Flip a coin, I have and use both, and for my home shop they both get the job done just fine, with maybe a *slight* preference for the D1-4.
I can say from personal experience that the import 12x class of machines is very capable of doing fine work, and would make a great addition to any home shop.
lathesmith

[Clark]

I just sold my Clausing lathe.

The Grizzly 12x36, the Precision Matthews 12x36 and the Harbor Freight 12x36 all have ~ 80% interchangeable parts.

I have a PM1236 with DRO on order on a slow boat from China.

[EDG]

By my calculation by the time I was 25 I had spent 10,000 hrs running various engine lathes in tool making and production environments.
On the 13" lathes a screw on chuck is a hassle and can be dangerous due to the weight. I have seen them come loose during operation. The cam lock spindles are much safer and more secure.
Even so I worked with one old codger that would not change a chuck due to the weight and strain of lifting 10" 3 jaw chucks. He left his 4 jaw on the machine all the time and indicated all of his work with an indicator.
True belt drive lathes give a better finish since there are no gear teeth to cause a pattern on the work.

[grumpy one]

On the 13" lathes a screw on chuck is a hassle and can be dangerous due to the weight. I have seen them come loose during operation. The cam lock spindles are much safer and more secure.
Even so I worked with one old codger that would not change a chuck due to the weight and strain of lifting 10" 3 jaw chucks. He left his 4 jaw on the machine all the time and indicated all of his work with an indicator.
True belt drive lathes give a better finish since there are no gear teeth to cause a pattern on the work.

I have an old flat-belt drive 14x40 lathe that started life in a toolroom in the 1930s. Its screw-on chucks are locked in place by a locking collar. This makes it possible to run backwards, and also to stop the spindle very quickly by pushing the clutch lever down past 'stop' into 'reverse'. Believe me, I've been glad of this facility at times. When you do bad things there is a brief squeal from the flat belt, and that is the end of it. Of course the reason it uses a flat belt is so that you can change spindle speeds with the spindle running: just lift the tensioning counterweight with one lever and move the belt with the other, then lower the counterweight. Takes perhaps two or three seconds I guess.

For me the screw-on chucks are desirable because the backing plates are cheap, in fact you can pretty easily make your own. I also quite easily made an adaptor using the same male thread as the spindle nose, that I mount on my 12" rotary table so I can use any of the lathe chucks on it. So far, this has enabled me to avoid buying a dividing head for the mill. Changing screw-on chucks on the rotary table is simple, and so is removing the adaptor from the rotary table.