marlin 444

[bigted]

i am frustrated by the lack of good heavy boolits for my favorite caliber. i have searched for a 400 + grain boolit/boolits for my rifle. can anybody shed light on this and tell me where i can obtain .429 caliber heavy boolits for my shooter. i live in grizzly country and i rely on heavy boolits for everyday life and security.
also loads for these cast heavys would be welcome as well. blackpowder loads would be fun as well.

[OBXPilgrim]

Here you are!!!

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,37945.0.html


Pretty well need a custom mold for heavier than 310s in the 44. Your Marlin may not feed them from the magazine & chamber a 444 with a longer slug - I'm sure you probably already know - so you're gonna be reducing your powder capacity by a bunch & worse if you go +400gr.

And BTW, welcome to the sight - one educational adventure!!

[6pt-sika]

Your easiest option is to get some Beartooth Bullets . they sell ready to reload 405 grain bullets .

If you want a mold you can have "Mountain Molds" make you one like Olle did . I have fired some of Olle's 350 grain and 400 grain bullets with very positive results .

However all the 400 grainers were fired in rifles with "Ballard Rifling" . If your rifle has Micro Groove Rifling it isn't gonna handle the 400 grain bullets . Matter of fact I started having problems with anything over 320 grains in my Micro Groove 444 barrels . However once I water quenched my WW bullets everything from 320-350 grains shot okay . I think I can stabalize a water quenched bullet in the Micro barrels of up to 375 grains but I haven't had a chance to test my theory yet .

NEI makes a 429-330GC mold that actually drops at 345 grains with WW's . These bullets shoot exceptionally well in my old Micro Grooved 444's . I've also used the Lyman 429649 which is supposed to be about 325 grains from the mold . They shot well in my rifles also when water quenched .

Something else you need to consider !
When seating a 400 rain bullet in a 444 case deep enough so it can cycle thru the action , you are displacing a very large amount of powder space !

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that 400 grains is about all one can go in a Ballard rifled 444 in a lever action and be able to get enough velocity and function thru the action .
In the slow twist Micro barrels I am okay with anything water quenched up to 350 grains . But I believe they will be able to handle a 375 grain water quenched bullet also - but again this is in theory as I have not had a mold made yet ! It's my intention to have one of Olle's 400 grainers made for my 444P and have a 375 grain mold made to use in the slow twist Micro barrels . And if it doesn't stabalize I can always use them in the 444P as well .

I have a friend in Texas who has a Remington Rollingblock set up with a FASTER twist 444 barrel and he shoots 450 grain bullets . Although he can seat his bullets way out in that single shot , his twist is a good bit faster then Marlin's fast 1:20 and also he has a rifle with rifling very similar to the ballard in the newer Marlin's .

Well I've said more then enough !

Good luck :drinks:

[Dutch4122]

Go to the Beartooth Bullets site if you are looking for cast lead boolits that are 300 grains and above for the .444 Marlin.

Marshall Stanton is the owner and he is a big fan of the .444 Marlin levergun. Last I checked he had several designs for sale ranging from 300 grains to 405 grains. They also have a site called Loadswap that is linked to their home page that has plenty of data for the heavy weight .444 Marlin slug.

Hope this helps,:Fire:

[bigted]

i really apreciate the fast reply's and am impressed with this site as a newcomer.

my rifle is an older guide gun and not sure what kinda swirly things are inside tha barrel. it is ported and a few x-tra holes are added then factory so it is a sweety to shoot. it does very good with 265 gr horn. pointy with the plastic tip, but id like to continue to search for a heavier bullet that i can cast and funtion thru the ol girl.

maybe i have to stay under 400 but id like to push as close to that mark as is possible.

thanks again and i would like all the info on this as i can glean from others that have been here already. keep the kites commin and ill read and glean from you that have a lil mo savy then i on this subject.

bigted

[Dutch4122]

If your .444 is a Guide Gun, actually the "Outfitter" is what Marlin called the .444 in the "Guide Gun" configuration, then that means the barrel has a rifling twist that is 1 turn in 20 inches. The barrel will stabilize the heavier 300 to 400 grain slugs just fine.

[Hurricane]

If you go to the Beartooth Bullets site, you should also look at the Tech Notes (from the menu on the left of the screen). Marshall Stanton has written quite a few articles that are posted on his site. There are three articles on loading the 444. The articles are named "444 Marlin-Americas Most Versatile Big Bore Part I" also Part II and Part III. I think you will find it interesting.

[6pt-sika]

If you go to the Beartooth Bullets site, you should also look at the Tech Notes (from the menu on the left of the screen). Marshall Stanton has written quite a few articles that are posted on his site. There are three articles on loading the 444. The articles are named "444 Marlin-Americas Most Versatile Big Bore Part I" also Part II and Part III. I think you will find it interesting.


When I got to the over 320 grain bullets and started water quenching I went to Marshall's H322 loads with very decent results . Also used his load data for the 405 grainer when I was working with "Olle's" 400 grain Mountain Molds bullets .


I suspect when I get a copy of Olle's 400 grain mold and a 375 grain version of the same design I'll be done pretty much with 444 bullets . Although I still hopefully have a Ranch Dog 432-350GC mold on the way !
But at the moment I have a fairly broad selection of bullets for the 444 from 207 grains up to 350 so with the edition of a 375 grain and a 400 grain mold I should be set !

[Irascible]

What is the twist on the Marlins? It doesn't seem to me that it is fast enough for a 400gr bullet?

[BABore]

MicroGroove rifled are 1 turn in 38 inches

Ballard rifled are 1 turn in 20 inches.

Both are of similar depth. 0.0030 to 0.0035"

[6pt-sika]

What is the twist on the Marlins? It doesn't seem to me that it is fast enough for a 400gr bullet?


You can easily push a 400 grain bullet fast enough in a 1/20 Ballard barrel .

However the 1/38 Micro barrels can not do so if you follow safe reloading practices ! Thats why I want a 375 grain bullet as a max weight for my Micro rifles !

[405 WCF]

You can easily reach around 1700 fps out of the short 18,5 in Outfitter barrel within safe pressure limit.

No problem with powder capacity.

No problem to get the bullet stabile in a 1/20 Ballard barrel.
( Every 444 made after 1998, (IIRC) has 1/20 twist)
And every 18,5" 444P Outfitter is 1/20.

Accuracy is very good.

My 400 gr bullet is shot trough 6 different 444's, from my brother in laws Outfitter, to one of my friends new XLR, and everything is good.
No need to neckturn the case.

My bullet has a SD of .305 and BC of .230.
Launched at or around 1700 fps I guess that it will do what you want it to do.

There is no need to stop at bulletweight around 300 gr when we are talking 444 Marlin.
The 444 is capable to handle much heavyer bullets...

Just try, and let the results speak for it self.......

[Lloyd Smale]

after seeing what the ballistic cast 340 lfngc does in penetration testing and game i cant see a use for a bullet any heavier in the 444. I shot that bullet in the linebaugh penetration tests one year at cody out of a 44 mag at 1200 fps and it outdid every load shot there but three. Go any heavier and your taking away needed powder space and your lossing to much in trajectory in my opinion. Those 340s flat penetrate!!! They do as well or better then my best 4570 loads in testing.

[6pt-sika]

after seeing what the ballistic cast 340 lfngc does in penetration testing and game i cant see a use for a bullet any heavier in the 444.

I killed deer quite dead with the Ranch Dog 432-265 !

So in reality that bullet would cover my needs !

However ....................[smilie=1:

I enjoy trying all the others ! I used bullets from 265 to 315 this past year to kill deer in a 444 ! Now I have a Lyman 429649 that drops at 332 that will be tried , the NEI429-330GC that drops at 345 grains . Also a couple more in the 310 grain area as well as the latest Ranch Dog offering the 432-350GC that is scheduled to come my way this coming monday !

As for the 375 grain mold I want and the 400 grainer Olle made . I have no "need" but I certainly plan on trying them on deer !

[Lloyd Smale]

that ranch dog 350 would be another peach of a bullet

[OBXPilgrim]

Lloyd, you had me all worked up, thinking RD had a new .44 350 gr slug out. Only one I see is a .460 for the 45-70.

Yank the rug out, won't cha?

[6pt-sika]

Lloyd, you had me all worked up, thinking RD had a new .44 350 gr slug out. Only one I see is a .460 for the 45-70.

Yank the rug out, won't cha?

He does have a 432-350GC bullet in the works !

The trial molds are scheduled to be leaving Texas monday on the UPS truck and I'm hoping "mine" will be here thursday so I can get some bullets cast , sized and loaded to shoot next weekend .

[6pt-sika]

that ranch dog 350 would be another peach of a bullet


I'm sure this bullet will perform well !

However you should give some thought to the NEI429-330GC . This one drops at 345 grains from my mold with WW alloy and is about .433" as cast . I size these down to .431" . This bullet has shot some really nice groups in my older slow twist Micro barrels .

[bigted]

very impressive!!!

i did indeed go to beartooth and read the 1,2,and 3 articles on the 444 mairlin and what a wonderfull aticle.

thankyou for the hint to go there as they have the very boolits i have been looking for.

the only thing that remains is to obtain moulds for a couple of these boolits so as i can cast em myself.

if there are any out there that would like to read a comprehensive thread on what is a very good cartridge, go to the beartooth site and enjoy, as i did.

i only wander what the bnh of 21 will perform like on these huge bears i live with. an experiment with these big brothers is something that i would rather have someone else perform as i have seen first hand the wonderfull power these bears have when stirred up by a swat of an ineficiant boolit. they are fearsome to say the least and the men that have iritated them with not enough boolit have lost limbs and been shot by their partners who were trying to disuade the angry bruin from snacking on their friends.

all in all, i am very happy to have found this site here and to recieve informative info. and i wont be going anywhere soon for my reading pleasure.

bigted....in the alaskan bush

[6pt-sika]

Frankly if I were you and worried about brown bears and was using a 444 I think I would use the Swift 300 grain A Frame .

I think for the hardness thing I would try an alloy of 50/50 WW's and Lino and I would water quench as well ! That should I would think give you enough penetration as well as have "decent" mushroom capabilities !

BUT before I bet my life on them I would at least try them in wet newsprint with some rib sized ply wood strips mixed in to see how well it holds up !

[6pt-sika]

That third Beartooth article I believe . The one with all the loading data for the 300+ grain bullets I printed out and use as a loose guideline when I load for variouse "untried" cast bullets in the 300-400 range [smilie=1:

[jaydee1445]

If you go to the Beartooth Bullets site, you should also look at the Tech Notes (from the menu on the left of the screen). Marshall Stanton has written quite a few articles that are posted on his site. There are three articles on loading the 444. The articles are named "444 Marlin-Americas Most Versatile Big Bore Part I" also Part II and Part III. I think you will find it interesting.

+1 on marshall and his tech on the 444. His tech manual is a wealth on info on shooting cast boolits. I read it and slugged my 444 and found 3 tight spots in barrel. After firelapping and casting the proper dia boolits groups went from 4"to right @ MOA.

Mine is a 1974 24" with the Monte Carlo stock. I have safe full of toys and the 444 stays my favorite.