Any .300 Whisper/FireBall Casters???

[Just Call Me...G]

Howdy Folks,

Just wanted to see if there were any aficionados of the .300 Whisper/Fireball cartridge on this forum.

For those that do not know about this cartridge, it is the offspring of SSK Industries/J.D. Jones and was first developed for use by covert operatives that wanted .30 cal. punch out of a suppressed AR platform. Parent cartridge was originally the .221 Fireball, but brass for it is effectively made using standard 5.56/.233. Runs through the AR, uses existing AR mags, ballistics can reproduce .30-30 power levels, you can shoot everything from 125 grain all the way to 240 grain and velocities from supersonic to sub-sonic with a suppressor.

I just received my 16" barrel from J.T. Distributing and will be dropping off one of my AR-15s to my gunsmith to have a barrel swap-out. He has a finishing reamer and a headspace gauge waiting and it should be a pretty simple operation.

I acquired a Lee C312-155-2R mould and have been casting away and sizing to .309, of course. I made up a series of inert rounds including one of the Lee 155s, just to check how they would fit when the barrel came.

I am using two mixes of alloy; straight/water-quenched wheelweights and a mix of wheelweights and tin-enriched ingots that approximate #2...these I am air cooling and H2O-quenching. All will be gas checked and ideally I will shoot them to determine accuracy while trying to push out to about 2000 f.p.s. I have a stash of RamShot Enforcer, AA 1680, W296 & Lil' Gun for powder and will be using Winchester Small Pistol Primers on all rounds loaded.

Looks pretty good with the "j" word bullets, but found that I had to seat the Lee down from standard OAL of 2.250" to 2.000 for the 155 boolit to fit. The Lee 155gr. boolit I am throwing is .962 overall (with G/C)

If any of you out there have any experience with casting and loading for the .300 Whisper/Fireball I'd surely appreciate your guidance and info.

I have also lurked about on Quaterbore's .300 Whisper site (www.quarterbore.net/forums)...this particular project started about 4 years ago and have steadily been working on it and it is almost to fruition...will be ordering a barrel in .300 Whisper for my Encore as soon as the AR is done.


Included are some pics...enjoy :-)


Kind Regards ,


Giovanni
:castmine:

[leadman]

I have a custom 18" barrel for my Contender carbine. Usually shoot a 200 gr. gaschecked AC WW boolit with WC680. I also have loaded on old RCBS 150SP water guenched GC bolit for more speed. Load a Nosler 125 gr. Ballistic Tip for a flatter varmint to small deer load.

[Johnch]

Soon
I have a AR kit on the way

Already have several hundred rnds loaded from a freind

John

[David Caldwell]

my barrel is .308 1 in 9 twist, I size to .309
Speer 130 gr HP w/19.0 gr Imr 4198 1.0 moa 1830 fps
" " " w/19.0 gr AA 1680 not good, don't waste time 1990 fps
125 gr w/15.0 gr #5 liquified the cartridge case; don't do this
220 gr Sierra w/10.0 gr 2400 1166 fps 1.0 moa
" " w/9.0 gr H110 1075 fps 1.0 moa
" " w/10.0 WW296 1165 fps 1.1 moa
" " w/9.0 gr IMR 4227 964 fps 8.0 moa (sucks, 6 " group)
Lyman 311299 w/8.5 gr #5 1235 fps @ 1 moa --------200 gr w/ wheelweights and gas check
" " w/16.0 gr IMR 4198 @1570 fps Precise, strong deer killer - Recommended.
" " w/1.5 - 2.7 Bullseye, recommend supressor, pile up squirrels and rabbits.

[Just Call Me...G]

NICE!...thanks to all who are contributing, I appreciate it.

Are you guys finding that with cast boolits you are having to seat further down that the recommended 2.250"???

Dave, thanks especially for all the reload data info...good stuff :-)


G

[redneckdan]

I am using two mixes of alloy; straight/water-quenched wheelweights and a mix of wheelweights and tin-enriched ingots that approximate #2...these I am air cooling and H2O-quenching.

I used quenched and tempered WW for my max loads. Range scrap for my sub sonic loads. Never had a problem with leading, however the soft lube fouling was everywhere inside the action.




All will be gas checked and ideally I will shoot them to determine accuracy while trying to push out to about 2000 f.p.s. I have a stash of RamShot Enforcer, AA 1680, W296 & Lil' Gun for powder and will be using Winchester Small Pistol Primers on all rounds loaded.


All my testing concluded that gas checks were needed, even on sub sonic loads. Never quite figured out why. Be carefull with load data. Its better to think of the whisper as a rinless version of the .32-20 In my gun, 2000FPS with a 155 would have blown a case, best I got was about 1850 with the 155, 1700 with the LEE 170 FN. You need to use small rifle primers on the super sonic loads, definitely. I only used WSP primers with 5.0gr of red dot and the LEE HBC boolit, got 950 FPS and SDV in the single digits. Remember than this cartridge develops the same MAP as the .223 remington. I have used H110, 296 and Enforer all with good results. My favorite at the time was 4227 because I was using a LEE powder measure and that thing will choke on any fine ball powder.





Looks pretty good with the "j" word bullets, but found that I had to seat the Lee down from standard OAL of 2.250" to 2.000 for the 155 boolit to fit. The Lee 155gr. boolit I am throwing is .962 overall (with G/C)



With some boolits you will run into interference with wite shoulder guides in the magazine. On the plastic magazines you can disassemble them and use a mill bastard or even a wood rasp to remove the 'hump' without affecting the structural integrity of the magazine. I tried milling the 'hump' out of a USGI magazine and it doesn't work as well as it does with the plastic magazines.

You can also run into issues with chamber dimensions. The chambers are usually throated for the streamling matchking bullets, our boolits are much more blunt. If you are using it primariliy for cats, you can retroat. If you need/want accuracy with the matchkings then you probably are stuck with short seated cast boolits.

[Just Call Me...G]

Thanks Dan...I know that you were deeply involved in your own .300 Whisper project for awhile. Just out of curiosity, why did you sell yours?




Be carefull with load data. Its better to think of the whisper as a rimless version of the .32-20 In my gun, 2000FPS with a 155 would have blown a case, best I got was about 1850 with the155 , 1700 with the LEE 170 FN. You need to use small rifle primers on the super sonic loads, definitely.

Thanks for that info...VERY good to know. I would be pretty content with 1850 fps out of those 155s. I will be working up loads slowly, accuracy is the key first...then see where my velocity is before the groups start opening up...and of course want to make sure that the AR functions as close to 100% as possible.




If you need/want accuracy with the matchkings then you probably are stuck with short seated cast boolits.

I am going to be shooting various types of "j" word bullets out of the carbine AND will be shooting my 155 boolits as well...so, no problems with seating them down to 2.000"???



To tell the truth, the main reason why I am interested in this little project of mine is that I want some options should .223/5.56 ammo & .22 "j" word bullets becomes less readily available. I am still contemplating casting for the .22 as well...haven't committed to it yet.

Don't get me wrong...I have been reloading my own for a little over 10 years now and .223 was my first rifle caliber that I reloaded (I was competing in 3-gun at the time & shooting A LOT). When it was "cheap" back in the day...I still reloaded. I have some buddies who razz me frequently about my "wall of .223 ammo".

I do plan to shoot the .300 Whisper supersonic primarily and will be deploying the finished carbine for casual shooting, possible defensive carbine scenarios, maybe thinking about getting back into 3-gun and I want to whack some coyotes with it. :-)

I have no plans at this time to purchase a suppressor...yes, I realize the irony that this cartridge was specifically developed for sub-sonic/suppressed shooting.

Basically, I want a .30-30 in an AR platform that uses standard AR mags.
I did upgrade 30 of my AR mags with the CMMG SSAT anti-tilt followers & new braided-wire springs just for this little project.

I looked at cost effectiveness of just getting an AR upper in 7.62X39 and the mags killed the project...I have A TON of AR mags and am not interested in having to purchase a whole mess of C-Products mags for 7.62 SovBloc. By the way...yes, I own a couple of AKs & a couple of SKSs, I cast & reload for them too :-)...that's why I thought the Lee 155s would be ideal for all.


Thanks To ALL for your great info...


Regards,


G

[rufracer]

Ive been using water dropped ww+2-3% tin lee C309-200-1R with good results in front of 18gr of h116. h116 is very close to 4227. No preasure signs after reloading cases 4-5 times. Use p-mags to keep from scaring boolits.

[redneckdan]

Thanks Dan...I know that you were deeply involved in your own .300 Whisper project for awhile. Just out of curiosity, why did you sell yours?



Got bored with it, wanted a can but the AG hasn't got off his ass and made it legal in michigan yet. Currently I'm tinkering on a similar cartridge in .416 caliber






course want to make sure that the AR functions as close to 100% as possible.




With my rifle anything over 12 gr of H4227 would cycle the action. What is your gas port size and postion?


You can seat to 2.00" with no problem, should feed okay. As long as you work up your data with the 2.00" oal you will be fine.





To tell the truth, the main reason why I am interested in this little project of mine is that I want some options should .223/5.56 ammo & .22 "j" word bullets becomes less readily available. I am still contemplating casting for the .22 as well...haven't committed to it yet.


The whisper will suit your needs just fine. I actually drop a 20" varmint weight upper on my lower after the whisper went bye bye. Havein a heck of a time finding SMKs, settled on some A-max 75s and 80s to see how they work.


[



I do plan to shoot the .300 Whisper supersonic primarily and will be deploying the finished carbine for casual shooting, possible defensive carbine scenarios, maybe thinking about getting back into 3-gun and I want to whack some coyotes with it. :-)


The .300 whisper works well for 3-gun stuff. There was a rowdy fight out front a couple years ago and the 16" carbine with a flash light and 30 rds of whisper with another 30 magazine in my back pocket definitely was comforting while waiting for the cops to show up.

I'm trying to decide if I want to get a 16" upper in .223 or get a .30-30 lever gun for these types of situtations. The .300 has enough power but I want to be able to go buy ammo if I get in a pinch.



Basically, I want a .30-30 in an AR platform that uses standard AR mags.
I did upgrade 30 of my AR mags with the CMMG SSAT anti-tilt followers & new braided-wire springs just for this little project.


Anti-tilt followers are a great thing. I used to hunt for and modify the plastic magazines until I found the anti-tilt followers, USGI mags worked great with them.

[Just Call Me...G]

Howdy Ruf...never considered H116, may have to scrounge some up.

I have set aside the powders listed simply because I had a pound of each just sitting around. I have a little corner (well, not so little anymore) in my "Man Cave" where I have placed all of my .300 Whisper stuff.

Started out modifying .223/5.56 brass about 6 months ago and now have 3000 comm./mil-surp cases...all ready to be primered/powdered and adorned with projectiles. :-)

Dan...if you ever get tired of MI, c'mon over to NV! We have a culture that is steeped in firearms heritage. Pretty much everything legal here :-)

Plus, I have always encouraged true "shooters" to re-locate here...In my opinion it is the duty of every Nevadan to somehow off-set all the tree-huggers coming in from the People's Republik of Kalifornistan.

I am at the beginning of this path and feel that it will be a l-o-o-o-ng while before I get bored with the .300.

I'll have to look into H4227 as well...did you try any of the Blue Dot loads for the .300???
I saw on "reloadersnest" that they have a recipe for 11.0 grs / 150gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip, gets ~1628 fps out of a 22" bbl (assumption: bolt gun)...wonder if those loads will cycle an AR???

Ummm, hate to sound like a dummy about port size but I dunno...what size should it be??? I am electing to go with carbine position.

Good to hear that 2.000" is OK and yes, will definitely work up separate "dope" for all loads.
I'm not an engineer, but I'm definitely O.C.D. about my reloads. :-)

Funny you mention the lever gun...I have an old beat up Win 94 shorty that I call my
"politically-correct" assault rifle. Minor mods; XS sights, wrapped the lever, had the action slicked up and it is stoked with Lyman 311041s. I have been on hikes here in the boonies and have come across people and they don't bat an eye or even avoid me. Have actually had some of the REI crowd (in there magenta tights) stop and chat with me. NOT the same reaction when I had an AR in a single-point sling or even one of my trail semi- pistols in a chest harness...sometimes I pack an XD Tactical .45/sometimes my Glock 20.

Thanks for all of your info and great details...
I'm off to the Man Cave to go throw some lead around! :-)


Seeya,


G

[gary0529]

G,
I have extensive experience with the 300 Whisper but none with cast as I am just now getting into casting and mostly pistol at that.
If however, you need subsonic loads for jacketed loads I have some really accurate ones using 240 gr. Sierra HPBT.

I will be watching the site for more info about cast boolits in the subsonic range for the 300 although I have read many reports about leading the can using cast rounds.

Gary

[David Caldwell]

Failed to mention I'm shooting a Rem 700.

Also good groups with 200 gr cast with 4.0 gr Unique. Haven't chronographed.

With Lyman's 311299 (200 gr) OAL=2.250".

[redneckdan]

The gas port in the barrel is what controls the ammount of gas pressure allowed into the action of the gun. Stock is around .096" I believe. Most whispers end up running between .100 and .125". I drilled mine out to .125" and used an adjustable gas tube.

[HORNET]

If you are using it primariliy for cats Dan, you've been talking to Carpetman too much...[smilie=1: