Learning to cast

[contendernut]

Hello,

I'm in the beginning stages of learning how to cast. I bought the 20# lee bottom pour pot; a lee and lyman mold; and some alloy from Midway to start with. I have a good bit of pure lead and WW that I have cleaned in a cast iron pot/burner for latter use.

My first two attempts were with the lee mould. It worked out ok and I kept around half of the bullets I cast. I use a lee ladel to stir the mix skim with. I noticed that the top and sides of my pot are rusting. I did leave my alloy in the pot when I finished. I wasn't sure if I needed to empty the pot or not. I was not going to have time to cast any more for a few weeks and the rust seemed to be growing so I put WD40 on the pot.


When I tried to cast again, I heated up the alloy and skimmed everything off. Now spout is clogged. I tried using a small piece of wire to clean the spout and a trick I read about here using beeswax to clean it. I emptied the pot and cleaned it the best I could but it still acts like it is clogged up. The alloy hardens before the mold fills out. I have tried preheating the lee mold by dipping it in the alloy for 20 seconds.


I guess I made a mistake putting the wd40 on the pot. I didn't clean the pot as new, just plugged it up and put lead in it.

I'm going to try casting with a laddle and clean the pot again. Any other suggestions for a newcomer?

[redneckdan]

WD-40 should just burn off. sounds like the lead isn't getting hot enough.

[boogerred]

a light oil wd-40 should cook off. maybe you didnt get the WWs as clean as you thought. try a little more heat. do not use a power drill on the spout. you will get the angle wrong and cause the famous lee drip to become a full fledged gusher. dont ask me how i know. i have 10# and i start at max and eventually get down to just below 8. if you run at max temp and deplete the pot you will grow some funny stuff on top. empty the pot and give it a good scraping before you start up each time.

[454PB]

My Lee pots (I have 3) all seem to end up at somewhere between 7 and 7.5 on the thermostat scale using wheelweights. I agree with redneckdan, you need to crank up the temperature. You didn't hurt anything by spraying the pot with WD-40, but it's unnecessary. You might want to heat it up and make sure all the residual WD-40 is burned out.

It's my practice to completely empty the pot at the end of a casting session. The reason is that I use several different alloys. I dump the last of the pot into ingots, then write the alloy on the cooled ingots with a sharpie. I also pick the pot up and tip it upside down to dump all the junk out, this helps prevent valve plugging and leaking, and allows me to run a dental pick in the valve body so it's clear for the next session.

[waksupi]

You didn't, by any chance, put Marvelux in your pot, for flux?

[robertbank]

If you have not so already go out and get a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. It is an excellent resource and has lots of very good information which will help you move up the learning curve quickly.

Your Lee pot is going to drip, goes with the Lee pot. For reasons only the casting gods know mine will drip a little, then none then some. I am going to try attaching a small set of vice grips on the plunger and see if that helps. Suspect it will for awhile.

Take Care and Welcome to casting.

Stay Safe

[StarMetal]

You didn't, by any chance, put Marvelux in your pot, for flux?

Ric,

You sure have alot of idiosyncrocies like WD40 and Marvelux. Myself and alot of other people have found uses for WD40 and Marvelux. I don't use Marvelux anymore because of the expense and when I went to buy it they were always out of it. I had excellent results with. The only thing I can say bad about it is it causes rust....not on the mould tho.

Joe

[454PB]

I think Ric was pointing towards the fact that Marvelux attracts moisture and can cause rust in the bare steel liner of the Lee pot. He's right, but the advantages of Marvelux outweigh the disadvantages for those of us that cast in an area without good air ventilation. I personally prefer using NEI flux, but only when all the doors and windows can be opened.

[lovedogs]

Experienced same kind of problem once with Lee melter. My problem wasn't crud, but that cool air was cooling the spout. Careful application of a handheld propane torch warms the alloy in the spout to let flow resume.

[Edward429451]

Whats with all the clogged spouts? My Lee bottom pour get slightly clogged here n there. I just give the side of the pot a few taps and it flows. Oh once I had to up the heat a little and then with a few taps it flowed. ??

I always empty the pot when finished casting but I don't see where it'd make a difference.

[454PB]

I had the same thoughts. I see lots of posts about what a *** the Lee pots are, and I have had very good luck with mine. Yes, they do need some periodic cleaning of the nozzle after use, and they will drip if this not done, but my 30 year old 10 pounder still works well, no failure of the heating element or thermostat, and has melted tons of lead. I brazed the nozzle closed and removed the metering rod from one of my 10 pounders for use as a dipper pot/ alloying melter. My 20 pounder is a baby, I've only been using it about 10 years, but it works well and really shines for running two 325 grain double cavity .45 moulds simultaneously.

[Edward429451]

Maybe their heating elements are getting old and not heating up the way they should. You guys using thermometers? Ohm out the element and see if you get a wacked out reading.

If it's ok, then dig up an HVAC buddy and borrow his twist drills. Better'n torch tip cleaners. Don't open the orifice up, use the exact size (determined by starting big and using successivly smaller ones until it juust goes in. This way, if there's a burr on the inside of the orifice, it'll trim it off.

Good luck.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I used to use and swear by Marvelux. That is because there was someone resident in my house that sniveled about the smell of candle stubs and pieces of
wax that I fluxed with. Marvelux will rapidly form a liner in a lead pot that is tough to get out, and greatly reduces capacity of the pot. Marvelux is hygroscopic, and if you do not scrupulously pass your stirring/skimming spoon through a flame before putting it into the melt, you will have mini-steam explosions when you go to stir the melt, not dangerous, but unnerving. Also it is a good idea to pre-heat your ladle for the same reason. I had a high percentage of boolits rejected because of dross when using Marvelux. Others have posted that Marvelux causes rust. That is not in my experience, but the nasty crud in the pot, dross in my boolits, and the scary bubbling was enough for me. I am happily fluxing with candle wax again and all is well. Also, the unpleasant, anti-casting person has not haunted my house since 1991!

[44man]

First of all, the lee pot will not rust away and I would forget about what it looks like.
Second, never melt WW's in the casting pot, do that in something else like a cast iron pot on a coleman stove. Make ingots to go in the casting pot.
Third, never stir and skim with the ladle. Take an old stainless teaspoon or tablespoon and rivit a wooden handle on it for that. Keep the spout of the ladle out of the lead as much as possible.
Keep the ladle spout clean by tapping the handle rod on something to clear it. (has to be hot) NEVER hit the spout on anything. Drill it out when cold if you can't clear it.
Fourth, you never have to empty the pot unless you change alloys.
Fifth, mould prep or a graphite spray all over the ladle helps keep it clean.

[StarMetal]

Curmudge,

I disagree with you on Marvelux. First let me repeat I don't use it anymore because of cost and usually, for me, it's out of stock. I use to use it alot and my RCBS pot is still clean stainless steel like it's always been. Perhaps your experience is with a pot made of different material . I have experienced the rusting abilities of Marvelous, not on my moulds tho. I have no problem with slag nor did I have a bubbling problem.

Joe

[44man]

Joe, I use a flux from the metal man to mix antimony with WW's and tin. It sucks moisture. If I use the same spoon in my casting pot to stir or flux without washing it, the lead will bubble like mad until it gets hot and the flux is used up. I usually forget and plunge the spoon in, big mistake!

[454PB]

The spoon or dipper problem is easily solved. I don't use a dipper much, but my stirring spoon is laid on the top of the melt just before fluxing for about 15 seconds. That brings it up to temperature and there is no bubbling caused by the Marvelux residue. During the same session, it won't attract enough moisture to be a problem again. There is a buildup of dross on the sides of the pot, but it has never gotten thick enough to reduce it's capacity. That dross and oxidized metal comes loose at the next fluxing and floats to the top. I leave that layer of junk on the surface of the melt as an oxygen barrier. It is only skimmed off and discarded when the pot is nearly empty. I have less slag inclusions using Marvelux than I do with other fluxing agents, mostly because I use a bottom draw pot.

[contendernut]

I was using the flux that Midway sells. It may be the same thing just a different name. I think heat might be the issue but I let it warm up for nearly an hour and left it at the max setting around 10. I was using pure lead from midway. I don't have a thermometer yet and have the Lyman book ordered. One reason I thought it might be the heat, the mix stuck to my lee ladle and just kept getting bigger. I had to use a propane bottle to melt it off the ladle into the pot. It was around 65 degrees so something may be wrong with my pot. I'm going to read a little and keep trying though for now. I did order a RCBS ladle with the book and will try some on a coleman stove next.

[Slowpoke]

Hello,

I'm in the beginning stages of learning how to cast. I bought the 20# lee bottom pour pot; a lee and lyman mold; and some alloy from Midway to start with. I have a good bit of pure lead and WW that I have cleaned in a cast iron pot/burner for latter use.

My first two attempts were with the lee mould. It worked out ok and I kept around half of the bullets I cast. I use a lee ladel to stir the mix skim with. I noticed that the top and sides of my pot are rusting. I did leave my alloy in the pot when I finished. I wasn't sure if I needed to empty the pot or not. I was not going to have time to cast any more for a few weeks and the rust seemed to be growing so I put WD40 on the pot.


When I tried to cast again, I heated up the alloy and skimmed everything off. Now spout is clogged. I tried using a small piece of wire to clean the spout and a trick I read about here using beeswax to clean it. I emptied the pot and cleaned it the best I could but it still acts like it is clogged up. The alloy hardens before the mold fills out. I have tried preheating the lee mold by dipping it in the alloy for 20 seconds.


I guess I made a mistake putting the wd40 on the pot. I didn't clean the pot as new, just plugged it up and put lead in it.

I'm going to try casting with a laddle and clean the pot again. Any other suggestions for a newcomer?


WD-40 won't hurt anything on or in your Lee pot, I routinely douche mine down with it after it cools and before I put it up,

But if you ever get a wild hair and decide to spray a mould down with it just be sure and use a solvent or soap to remove it before getting it hot, like in trying to burn it out or off by floating the mould on the melt.

I read in a little blue book once upon a time many years ago that cleaning moulds was foolish fussing, that all you had to do was float the mould on the melt until it quit smoking and you were good to go, all I can say is the author never tried a mould that had WD on it, because mine quit smoking directly as advertised, but it left the cavities with a hard resinous coating that was a real pain to remove. This was long before AL Gore invented the Internet!

You want to be safe, some Lee pots will hit a 1000* plus pretty quick, I have two and one will do it 30 minutes on HI and the other in 20 set on 8.

When you are just starting out a thermometer sure saves a lot of head scratching and guessing and time.

Good luck

[44man]

I would never use WD-40 on anything except the surface of metal of farm eguipment or some such. Inside of a mould it is poison, same in the internal works of guns, locks, etc. It will harden and can't be removed with any solvent that I know of. Funny thing is, it will not prevent corrosion very well either.

[Blacktail 8541]

Wd 40 Attracts Moisture And Will Lock It In Gums Things Up Real Bad After Awhile. Good Quick Fix But The Bad Really Out Weight The Good.

[StarMetal]

Once and for all, you guys are wrong about WD 40. I'm not toting it as the best thing ever invented but I personally no of nobody that's had the problems you have had with it. I can't see it doing what it does from what it's really made of. Guys it's a heavyly refined mineral oit that has be de-waxed and some solvent has been added to it. That's it basically. Mineral oil does not make metal rust nor does it attract moisture. Here's the data sheet on it, read it:

http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~jsmith/MSDS/WD-40%20AEROSOL.htm

[Bullshop]

OK just going on my own experiance and no hear say. I have been storing my molds in WD40 for about 20 years. After each casting session I squirt the cavity, wrap the blocks in film wrap, and put them back in the box. Some boxes are paper some plastic. Some get stored a long long time before being used again and some not so long.
When they come out for use they get a quick brushing with a tooth brush and Dawn dish soap. After a pre heating on a hot plate they will drop perfact boolits almost from the start. Some may take a few casts to get the temp adjusted to the rytham. After that all keepers.
If WD40 is poisen to a mold then all 150 of mine should be dead.
Perhaps that magic solvent is Dawn dish soap. It gets molds so clean of the WD40 that I have to blow the water off with a compresser. If I let them air dry the ferrous metal blocks will have rust in the cavities within minutes and need to be brushed again before they can be used.
I have never had a hint of a problem using WD40 on my molds.
I think I will continue the way I do things that I have learned through experiance, before the internet.
Like the advice I got long ago when starting out in life* kid dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see and you will make out allwright*
BIC/BS

[StarMetal]

Dan,

Amen


Joe

[454PB]

I think we're on to an urban legend here.....time for mythbusters!

I use WD-40 for some things, but never in any electrical switches. The reason is that it tends to thicken, then attracts dirt and debris. I use Radio Shack Tuner cleaner for those. I don't think WD-40 is the best rust preventative, but does have that ability short term.

I'll never believe that it can survive 700 to 800 degrees in a mould or melting pot for more than a few minutes. As long as it is washed out of a mould before use, it should work fine, as Bullshop has stated.

I used to coat my steel moulds with oil after use, but learned that they never rust if stored away from high humidity areas. I used to cast in my heated garage, and I had to store my steel moulds in the house. When vehicles come in the garage covered with snow, the moisture would rust the moulds. All my aluminum moulds lived happily in the garage.

I recently inspected one of my steel moulds that has not been used for 20 years, is unoiled, and there is no sign of rust.

[44man]

I get a bunch of guns to fix from farmers in PA. They buy WD-40 in 55 gal drums. They squirt it into their rifles too. The firing pins will be locked up tight and I have to use mechanical means to remove the hardened WD-40. I have soaked them in everything I can find but nothing will dissolve the crap.
If the stuff is still wet, solvent and soap will remove it but once it hardens is where the trouble starts. I took apart several locks for a friend and had to scrape the stuff off the tumblers. It took me two days of soaking to just get the keys in.
I use it for lube when cutting aluminum but it gets washed off after. It does have it's uses.
Be my guest, keep using it, no skin off my back! Besides, it smells nice.

[Edward429451]

I had a bad experiance with WD on an early Para Ord frame conversion. Back from the range and didn't want to clean it right away so just doused it with WD and figured I'd get to it tomorrow. The next day the finish on the PO frame was speckled gold and would not come off. They warrantied the frame with an admonition to stay away from WD for guns.

I have except for certain trade related uses. To each his own. I spray down my moulds with anything but WD. Breakfree, remoil, etc and degrease before use with Dawn or Simple Green.

[MTWeatherman]

I'll confirm what 454PB said. In a dry climate, I've found no need to protect iron moulds from rust...only place I found it to be a problem was during a couple of years spent in Seattle.

Here in the chinook belt, the problem is lack of moisture...not too much of it. We normally have to water trees at least once a winter to keep the dehydration from dry air from damaging or killing the trees. I've had iron moulds in the garage for 25 years with no protection and without a hint of rust.

[StarMetal]

Well you fellows know the old saying, opinions are like *******s and everyone has one.

Joe

[SharpsShooter]

I've used WD40 on firearms for easily 20+ years with no problem. Long term or short storage with no rust. It is protecting the bore and surface of my Sharps and Rolling Block right now. I'd venture the problems that are mentioned have been caused by substances or a combination of products other that WD40.

[StarMetal]

Sharpshooter you are sharp, that's what I think. Come on guys, the stuff is basically highly refined oil with a solvent . It's damn near like kerosene. Any kind of gunoil that is not cleaned periodically from a firearm is going to build up a varnish or hard substance.

Joe

[waksupi]

Well, I can't put my grubby little fingers on it, but there was a guy, I believe on the Cruffler site, who did some research on various oils. He was one of those pointy head scientific types, and did say that WD 40, would actually permeate the bore surface, and cause separation of any machining marks left in the barrel, making it rougher, and that it would continue to penetrate the bore. And, in my experience, it gums crap up. So there. Light up the torches, and get the pitchforks!

[Bullshop]

WHUT!!!! Get the rope, theres gona be a hangin!!!
WD40 or hang, whuts it gona be?
BIC/BS

[Ken O]

I really havent had any experiance with WD40 myself, but before these internet forums there were the Fidol net Firearms forum. C. Ed Harris used to post regularly there, and said at one point in his career he had a position at Ruger, and WD40 caused so many problems it wasnt allowed in the door there. If I remember right he said it actually caused corrosion. Is anyone still in contact with him? It would be great to get the whole story.

[floodgate]

Guys:

I seem to reckemember (but don't hold me to it) that there was a MAJOR change in WD-40 packaging something like ten years ago, after there were some bad fires and explosions associated with its use near open flames, probably due to the solvent vehicle. Your drastically different results from it may reflect this.

I remember the old 3-IN-1 oil from back in the '40's and '50's that turned to heavy varnish after a few months; I have scraped a lot of it out of older guns and tools with a razor blade or X-Acto knife. At least, it came loose pretty easy, but Hippity-Hoppity No. 9 wouldn't touch it. The current 3-IN-1 formulation seems to be OK.

floodgate

[montana_charlie]

Hello men...

I have spent most of today and all of this evening reading posts on this forum.
I found you while Googling for something...which I can't even remember what it was.

It was not my intention to join up...just to 'lurk'. But this WD-40 conversation pulled me in.

WD-40 was developed as a water displacer...not a lubricant, preservative, or penetrating oil. You can learn more about that here http://www.wd40.com/AboutUs/our_history.html

I use it for light weight penetrating jobs, and I like it's smell. As a lubricant it is handy for short term use until the squeak disappears...then a real lubricant is applied.
But I don't use it for any gun-related applications.
CM

Oh, yeah! I'm just getting into bullet casting, so...if you'll excuse me...I have some more 'lurking' to do.
CM

[454PB]

Hey! another Montana guy! Welcome Charlie.

West of Great Falls? like Cascade? Naw, that's southwest.....

I figured Buckshot would jump in here. Most of us that use metal lathes have an aversion to WD-40.

[montana_charlie]

Hey! another Montana guy! Welcome Charlie.
West of Great Falls? like Cascade?
Nope...I'm on the Fairfield Bench, halfway between Sun River and Power.
CM