I need help with swaging dies

[deakin]

I have traded for a set of very old RCBS swaging dies.

22 cal. and they are supposed to have the die to make jackets from 22 rim fire.

I haven't got a clue how these are supposed to work. I have emailed RCBS with no reply. I don't think that they are very much like Corbin as the set included a ram with two set screws to hold the punch system in the ram but it is much smaller than the ram on my Rock Chucker.

I can take some pictures if that would help although I am sure that one of you guys that are as old as me have a set of these that you are using as we speak.

Thanks for the help.

[garandsrus]

Deakin,

Welcome to the site!

Here's a link to an article (http://www.beyondweird.com/survival/chapt-4.html) about the dies....

Here's another one from Corbin (http://www.bulletswage.com/rfjm.htm) who makes a lot of the dies

John.

[deakin]

Thanks for the links John. I printed the steps off and will be using them as a reference.

Now the only problem is to figure out which dies are what. I have figured out the lead forming die as it has a bleeder hole on the bottom of the die.

I also need to fabricate a new ram for my Rock Chucker then I can make all kinds of messed up products while I learn the curve.

[shooterg]

While I've read about 'em, never saw a set, so post the pics ! I have a set of Blackmon dies, but in today's climate, you'd thing RCBS or Lee would start making the .22 dies at a low price point.

[deakin]

I think that you are right on with your description. One die is threaded for insertion into the press and has a larger cap with the interrupted thread. What does this do?

I will have some pictures up tomorrow and thanks to all for the help.

I am not a member of the Antique Reloading Tool Collector's Association but will see if I can become a member to obtain a copy of the instructions.

[deakin]

Let me try this and see what happens.

From left to right the shaft dimensions are .020, .022, and .022.

I am sure that the first die is the lead swaging die as it has a relief hole just on the right in the picture.

The second die has the interrupted threads but I don't know what it does.

The third picture has a shaft that is flat on the bottom.

I don't think that I have a pointing die but I am not sure exactly what I have

[Pressman]

The interupted thread die should be a point forming die, at least the die I have is. Most likely, as I cannot quite tell from the pictures, is the des work with an A model press. That is why the small diameter ram. It fits the A Models.
RCBS is totaly helpless when it comes to swaging die instructions. A better approach would be to try Huntington's and get ahold of Buzz. They likely have the instructions, but not the organization to find them.
I have a copy of instructions, but exactly what dies they apply to I am not certain.
Send me an email: herters@netins.net
Ken

[onomrbil]

Phil Sharpe describes the operation of the RCBS swage in his book "Complete Guide to Handloading". Your point die should have a short knockout pin to eject the formed bullet. If you don't have it, take the punch to a machine shop and have them run a 1" section of rod the same diameter as the punch. I have a couple of these dies and they still work like a charm. I had a punch made up that mounts to the shell holder of my press instead of having to use a replacement ram and going through all that stuff. Make sure you follow the usual procedures for jacket prep and core seating and these dies will make top notch bullets! Enjoy!

[Bent Ramrod]

Deakin,

The punches and rams with the die set were made up according to the press the customer had. If Pressman recognizes it as a Model A ram, no doubt it is.

Your first die definitely looks like the picture of the core swage die in the RCBS instructions. The ram setup they illustrate is different, allegedly for the Pacific Super press. There should have been a replacement ram with a punch to fit into the die. The assembly with the threaded parts should be screwed into the top of the core swage die would eject it. I have a couple of ejector frames with the dies I found; again, I don't know whether or not RCBS made them as needed for the customer as a non-catalog item. They were adamant that the set should be a custom arrangement between the maker and the customer for all the needs of the latter to be satisfactorily met. I guess I don't have a real RCBS core swage die to compare to yours. My set has a bunch of rods and punches of different diameters; they must have been held in a hollow ram which is now lost. It doesn't look like the ejector rod you have (if that is what it is) is supposed to be hammered or otherwise forced to eject the core, so do not do this. Look at Corbin's site for the kind of ejector you can hit with a mallet, and compare.

The two-piece die with the interrupted thread is the "bullet" die. To use Corbin's terminology, this die, and the somewhat similar Hollywood bullet die, are in the family of "hard swaging" dies. In other words, the core (swaged to a consistent weight in the other die) was put into the cup, the loose assembly was put open end first into the bullet die, and the lever run up until the core and jacket was expanded against the sides of the die and extended up into the point cavity. There is a rather involved explanation of how to set this die up in the instructions; I would rather you read them directly than to repeat them here and run the risk of misreporting a detail. Suffice to say, you run the core and jacket into the die with the press ram, slack off and loosen the top to let air out, tighten it up again, and run the press ram to top dead center. If your core and jacket lengths and the punch and die ajustment are a perfect match, you get a bullet. You then unscrew the top of the die again and pick it out with your fingers, or maybe push it out from the bottom with the press punch.

This bulletmaking method has been superceded by the more modern two-step "expand-up" technique, wherein the core is first pressed firmly into the jacket until it bonds to the sides. In the process, the jacket is expanded slightly. Then the core/jacket composite is pressed into a separate point forming die. This points up the end of the bullet, and again expands the diameter slightly. This method ensures that the jacket, which has a tendency to spring back, will spring in the direction of tightening on the core, increasing integrity and accuracy potential Also, by doing it in two steps, it is less physical effort to make the bullet than if it is done all at once.

The RCBS instructions recommend commercial jackets with their tools, and discourage the use of modified .22 shells. I don't see any tooling offered to make jackets out of .22 shells in their literature.

I haven't yet tried my set out yet, so I have the same learning curve ahead of me that you do. But I'll do it sometime, just for nostalgia's sake if nothing else. I tried to get info out of the nice lady who answered the phone at RCBS, and she knew what I was talking about but didn't know where to get any info. I agree with Pressman, if anyone has it anymore, it would be someone in the Huntington family.

[deakin]

Bent what a great help this is. If you will PM me your email I have been sent the RCBS instructions and I will send them you way perhaps we can learn together.