Newbie Smelting Concerns

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Hey all, just got into casting boolits a couple weeks ago. Bought some lead and molds from Midway and cast some beautiful boolits.But, I have a buddy that owns a tire shop in St. Louis... and said I could have as many wheel weights as I want. I went down to his shop the other day and he had a 55 gal barrel full to the brim with wheel weights! I grabbed a bucket and took 90 pounds. :-D So, that night, being a newbie, went through the entire bucket and culled out the zinc WWs and the stick-ons. The zinc ones hit the trash and the stick ons went into a seperate pile. Went to Cabelas today and they had a fish fryer kit that contained the burner, stand, 10 qt. cast iron pot with lid, regulator, and even a thermonmeter that goes to...I think 800*. My first question....will this setup work??? I couldn't see any problems with it...but I am a newb!. I plan on smelting this lead tomorrow...and was wondering if I should do the clip-ons in a seperate batch from the WWs? Should I try to do all 90 pounds in two or three batches? Is it best to fill the pot 1/2 way...3/4??? Do I get all the WWs in a batch melted, flux, and then start pouring into ingots? I am not mising any steps, am I? Any tips would be appreciated. I have been lurking on here for a while and searching the forums on various topics. I just would like to have piece-of-mind before I do this. Also, I almost forgot, it is suppose to be 30 degrees outside tomorrow.....Is it ok to do this at that temperature??? Thanks in advance!

[randyrat]

Start= Do you have safety glasses, don't go near your pot with out them. I wouldn't mix both stick on WWs and clip ons.. Is the regulator a high out- put, i use one that is a 10 PSI (not sure of the BTUs).
Also get a pair of hand held wire cutters, lead scores and zink dosen't. There's a start.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

the regulator is adjustable. I went thru the WWs with a set of pliers (the ones with the wire cutter towards the handle) and tested each one. The zinc ones were much, much harder...so i have a feel for that now. My setup is this one: http://www.kingkooker.com/detail.php?ID=131

[Jumping Frog]

Nice bit of equipment.

I suggest keeping the WW and the stick ons separate, because the stick-ons are almost pure lead and you will end up storing two different kinds of ingots.

Do all the WW as one big batch if you can, because then all your ingots will be the same consistent alloy mixture.

I also suggest a respirator when smelting down WW. They give off some nasty fumes. I picked one up at Lowes for not much money. If you do get a respirator, read the box. Some are rated for lead fumes and others are not. Lowes had two models from the same company and the lead-fume rated one was like $10 more. It was worth $10 more to me.

When you smelt it down, the more you can flux and clean out the dross, the cleaner your ingots will be.

[mtgrs737]

Looks like your burner 56,000 btus may take a little longer to melt a pot full but who knows till you give it a try. You might benifit from a sheet metal wind shield around the pot and burner, around here (Kansas) there is most always a breeze and it blows the heat away from the pot without it. I would melt a full pot and see how long it takes, mine will take an hour or more with a cold full pot of WW's. If you keep your temp down to under 700 degrees you will not have a problem with steel or zinc WW's as the won't melt and you can skim them off with the clips. Now all you need is a few ingot moulds, a 5 pound ladle, and a skimmer to remove the clips. The skimmer I use works great and is made of wire welded into a shallow ladle, I got it at Sportsman's Wharehouse but all the outdoor big box stores have them. Iwill try to post a picture. The "Antimony Man" sells Rowe ladles and they work well. Google him on the internet and get you one. Flux with just about anything, dry wood sawdust, old candle wax, etc. You have a great start, don't forget to wear protective equiptment, welders gloves, cotton clothes, safety glasses and or face sheild. Beware of water getting into the melt or you will get a amazing suprize. Good luck!

Where did you say your friend had his tire shop in St. Louis? LOL!!

[doghawg]

Ah.....Mr. coyote hunter.....If I was in your shoes the very FIRST thing I'd do is go back and get the rest of those wheelweights....

[Ole]

Any time you come across a clip on weight that you suspect might be zinc, just drop it on a concrete surface and you'll recognize the difference between PB and ZN very quickly. ZN weights go "ting" and bounce, lead weights just go "thud" and don't bounce hardly at all.

[Ole]

Ah.....Mr. coyote hunter.....If I was in your shoes the very FIRST thing I'd do is go back and get the rest of those wheelweights....

EXACTLY!

Get them before someone else does.

WW lead is worth $$ now, but pretty soon it's going to be worth $$$$$...

[slimpickins]

I too would like to know about when you should flux and how often should it be done with a full pot 30+lbs ? Once or should you flux again if it takes awhile to ladle it all out? Or is a small batch 10-20lbs flux and cast repeat better?

[Rockchucker]

Ah.....Mr. coyote hunter.....If I was in your shoes the very FIRST thing I'd do is go back and get the rest of those wheelweights....

What he said.

[chrisx1]

Ah.....Mr. coyote hunter.....If I was in your shoes the very FIRST thing I'd do is go back and get the rest of those wheelweights....

If you're reading this.....GO GET THE REST OF THOSE WHEELWEIGHTS!!!!!!

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Thanks for all the posts guys!!! I will definately go back there and get the rest. They had it on a pallet and use a forklift to move it. That pallet may just need to go in the back of my truck!!! My poor half ton is gonna be squattin'! One more question guys....As far as fluxing....how often and should I skim off the powdery gray stuff??? What about the other slushy stuff??? Thanks!

[snaggdit]

Since you are just starting out, you will probably only have a pan or 2 for ingots. Doing a full pot will have you waiting for your ingots to cool while the melt is burning propane. Try this: Fill the pot half full of WW. Get it melted. Strain out clips and other junk. Flux well with the flux of your choice and remove junk. Pour a set of ingots. This will leave melted lead in the pot. To maximize your time, try this. Add more WW. The remaining melted lead will help the new WW melt faster. When melted, strain out clips and junk, flux and re-strain, dump your cooled ingots and pour new ones. Repeat. When you run out of WW, get more! LOL :-) Do stick-ons separately, as recommended.

[snaggdit]

The slushy stuff should dissapear into the melt when you flux well. If you have a bunch of dry sawdust, add a bunch before you strain off clips. Stir well, then remove them. It should allow the mush to be mixed back in before you strain it off. The powdery gray stuff is just lead and tin oxidizing on the surface. It won't really amount to much, and will not bother you during smelting.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Thanks Snaggdit!! VERY informative! I'll let you guys know how it turns out!!

[slimpickins]

Thanks Snaggdit!! VERY informative! I'll let you guys know how it turns out!!

+1 from me too

[WHITETAIL]

:cbpour:I C Hunter, Welcome to the forum!

[WHITETAIL]

The only thing that was not mention was smelt out of doors.
The stuff that is on the WW can stink to high heven.:redneck:

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Thanks! Appreciate all the help!

[HABCAN]

Cautionary note:

If you do as suggested and use some left-in-the-pot melt to hasten melting of added WW's, BE SURE the additions are DRY or you could have a visit from the Tinsel Fairy that could really ruin your day.

[snaggdit]

Wow, thanks Habcan, I forgot to mention that! Yeah, be very careful that the weights in the bottom of pails don't have chew spit, spilled pop, or other moisture on them. Best to go through them first, rather than dump them into the pot from a pail and use the heat method to sort out zinc. Still good to smelt with just enough heat, though. I have caught a weight or two that way that slipped by my inspection.

[Fixxah]

Nice find. I think you might want to check out how much weight the stand can take. It doesn't look too sturdy and if it fails with a full load in the pot you are screwed.

[NuJudge]

In the past I liked to run a Weed Burner over my Cast Iron pot and a Turkey Fryer below when melting wheelweights. The Weed Burner adds more heat and, more importantly, burns off most of the smoke.

I've sorted through my wheelweights in the past and removed all that look suspicious, then melted them as quickly as possible, but the Zinc wheelweights have been few. With the dramatic increase in Zinc, I may be forced to melt a pot, remove clips and trash, then with the Lead below the Zinc melting point throw wheelweights in a few at a time, removing those that don't melt quickly.

[mold maker]

Hey all, just got into casting boolits a couple weeks ago. Bought some lead and molds from Midway and cast some beautiful boolits.But, I have a buddy that owns a tire shop in St. Louis... and said I could have as many wheel weights as I want. I went down to his shop the other day and he had a 55 gal barrel full to the brim with wheel weights! I grabbed a bucket and took 90 pounds. :-D So, that night, being a newbie, went through the entire bucket and culled out the zinc WWs and the stick-ons. The zinc ones hit the trash and the stick ons went into a seperate pile. Went to Cabelas today and they had a fish fryer kit that contained the burner, stand, 10 qt. cast iron pot with lid, regulator, and even a thermonmeter that goes to...I think 800*. My first question....will this setup work??? I couldn't see any problems with it...but I am a newb!. I plan on smelting this lead tomorrow...and was wondering if I should do the clip-ons in a seperate batch from the WWs? Should I try to do all 90 pounds in two or three batches? Is it best to fill the pot 1/2 way...3/4??? Do I get all the WWs in a batch melted, flux, and then start pouring into ingots? I am not mising any steps, am I? Any tips would be appreciated. I have been lurking on here for a while and searching the forums on various topics. I just would like to have piece-of-mind before I do this. Also, I almost forgot, it is suppose to be 30 degrees outside tomorrow.....Is it ok to do this at that temperature??? Thanks in advance!

The stand on that burner unit looks too flimsy to hold a full pot of lead. To be on the safe side stand on it to see if it fails. (cold of course)
Wally World sells a cooking strainer that is made of 1/4' hardware cloth with a good handle for about $4. It does a good job of the clips and trash.
I get FREE wooden paint paddles, in the paint dept, to use to stir the mix. You will be fluxing as you gently stir. Just make sure they are clean and dry along with everything else that goes into your pot.
In temps like you are expecting to work in, be sure to prewarm your ladle and put it into the pot slowly till it's hot. It can carry moisture that causes an unpleasant surprise.
A 55 gal drum of WW is literally a fortune to a caster. They will be an old accumulation that should have from few to no zinc as you go down through them.
Don't let someone else beat you to the rest of them.

CAUTION... a 55 gal drum of them will OVERLOAD even a 2 ton truck. Your talking about well over 5300 # plus 50# for the drum, and 30 for the pallet.
Besides that ya gotta unload the truck at home without a pallet lift.
It would be prudent to haul them in buckets that you can handle, and leave the drum. It'll spread the weight at a lower level and even out the load on the vehicle.
Congratulations on a great start at casting. Your way ahead of most of us after many years searching.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Thanks for all the info guys!

Besides that ya gotta unload the truck at home without a pallet lift.

Well, I drive an International Truck for work...I figured I'd borrow it, load the 55 gal drum on the bed....then when I got home, throw the hoist!!! No, j/k! I will make a couple trips with 5 gallon buckets.

[jsizemore]

I recently bought a half full 55 gal drum of wheelweights and the drum weighed 30 lbs and the WW were 936 lbs. The fella at the scrap yard used the hydrulics to spread the forks and then grab the drum to load in my half ton p/u. Stuck a 4x4 against the bottom of the drum and the tailgate and tied the top of the drum to a tree with a come-along to flip it over so I could use a shovel to unload the WW in smaller drums and buckets. Now my truck has 382,000 miles on it so it ain't no show truck unless it's in the ugliest vehicle contest. DON'T set that drum on the tailgate.

[badgeredd]

ICH,

Just a little guide for you. A 5 gallon bucket full goes between 105# to 120#.
That should give you and idea of the weigh you are handling.
My only question was why you only got 90# on the first trip?
Congrats on finding a supply and be aware that there is a shortage of WW looming on the horizon. I get all I can now because I may not be able to get them in the future. My view is I can always get rid of the excess if I get to that point, which at the current rate of accumulation will be in the not to distant future. I have been noticing more steel (iron) and zinc in my recent batches. Something to think about/

Edd

[slimpickins]

I found an old freon can that was burned out in a trash pile cut out the top and punched a hole a few inches from the bottom to make a spout Ive added about 50+ pounds on a turkey frier stand and melted away pouring it out the spout and leaving behind the clips I pour into an old pan and reheat and flux the cleaner stuff. Is this ok or am i losing my mix in the initial melt? I then pour up ingots into an old cast iron muffin 2.5lb and 1lb cast iron hush puppy pans.

[zxcvbob]

That pallet may just need to go in the back of my truck!!! My poor half ton is gonna be squattin'! You're gonna break an axle or ruin your back tires. A 3/4 ton truck can probably handle it if you load them up close to the cab.

One more question guys....As far as fluxing....how often and should I skim off the powdery gray stuff??? What about the other slushy stuff??? Thanks! Best thing I've found for fluxing is old cooking oil or shortening. It works even better than old motor oil and doesn't flame up as bad. Add it before you start skimming out the clips. Add some more later when you think the metal is clean and you're about to pour it.

Slushy is not a good temperature at which to do anything to the melt; either you don't have the temperature high enough, or you got it too high and alloyed in some zinc. (probably just not hot enough yet) It means you do not have a eutectic alloy (that's normal. Pure lead, or linotype, or 63-37 solder are the only eutectic alloys we ever mess with), and it melts over a temperature range instead of at one fixed point. You want to heat it past the slushy stage before you skim it, otherwise you'll be removing antimony and other good stuff.