Maybe trying black powder in .45 Long Colt?

[madcaster]

I am thinking-bad thing I know,BUT...
Okay,I will need to carry maybe a deprimer of some kind and figure out how to soak the cases in water while afield-maybe a canteen just for that purpose.
Other than this brass care plan is there anything else I need to be conerned with?:coffeecom

[Dale53]

Mike Venturino's book, "Shooting Sixguns of the Old West" has complete details on loading black powder cartridge revolvers. It is GOOD information, too.

I have shot a rather large number of black powder .45 Colts in my Ruger Vaquero and Bisley Vaquero. It shoots VERY well with black powder. The bullet that I have really worked with is the Lyman 452664 cast at 30/1 and lubed with Emmert's Home mix. The 664 has a rather large, square, lube groove that holds plenty of lube. Basically, you fill the case with black powder (I recommend 2F) + 1/16" (you compress the black powder 1/16" when you seat the bullet). That amount of compression insures the case is full and yet is not compressed so much that it deforms your soft, carefully cast bullet. I size my bullets to .452". This load will shoot within 1.5" at 25 yards from the Ransom Rest.

My revolver will shoot about 70 shots before powder fouling will start to tie the cylinder up. It helps to put a heavy coat of Rig (I hear that STP works well, also) on the cylinder pin. I clean my revolver AT THE RANGE right after shooting. Using Friendship Speed Juice (home mix) cleaning solution a full cleanup takes no more than ten minutes. I then follow up with wet patches of Ed's Red. A couple of days later it is a good idea to go over the revolver inside and out with another application of Ed's Red.

No wads are necessary. You can decap the cases with various methods including a punch and base (cheapest) (I like the L.E. Wilson "punch" and "base" set). They are sold separately:

Base: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=828066

Punch: Most any Wilson punch should work but ask Midway when you order for the correct one.

Here is a much faster set up (not better but much faster) but more expensive:

http://www.neiljones.com/html/decapping_tool.html

Third option is to get one of the least expensive single stage reloading presses (Lee Hand Press):

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=410804

In addition, you'll need a Lee Universal decapping die:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=136543

When shooting Black Powder Cartridges, I decap at the range and drop the cases in a gallon milk jug filled half or two thirds full of water with a couple of squirts of Dawn dishwashing detergent (brand specific). By the time you get home, they are ready to rinse with VERY hot water, dump into a colander, shake the excess water off, and spread on newspapers to dry overnight. Or, you can make a "peg rack" (nails - stainless preferable, driven into pre-drilled holes in a 1x4" board) slip the cases on the pegs (longer than the cases) and they will dry MUCH faster. Or-r-r, you can do as I do and throw the damp cases in my large Dillon vibratory tumbler and let them tumble dry and polish at the same time. When you full length size them, the decapping pin in the sizer die will remove any tumbling media caught in the flash hole.

Dale53

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I think I have shot Black (3F) in every revolver caliber I have. It really helps ya understand the realities of 120 years ago. calibers that do not start with a 4 are very animac and multiply shots would be required to stop an agressive attacker. Even the "Deadly44 of Ringo" was not the "bounce you off the wall" caliber depicted in the movies. 45 Colt was about as good as it got except for the massive Dragoon revolvers with 55 grains Black.
But a 255 grain pure lead boolit at 870 fps will flat hurt-cha bad.
God bless ya

[cajun shooter]

I shoot 45 Colt with full cases of 2F in Cowboy shooting twice a month and go through a lot of ammo. If you use Mobil 1 synthetic red grease on your base pins you can shoot all day without a problem. Also if you use some NASA lube on the 454190, 452664 or the RCBS choices you will shoot longer without a problem. The Big Lube bullet molds sold by DD will keep a rifle running also. I put my brass in a container that contains 2 oz lemon juice, 2oz of Pine -Sol, and 2oz of Dawn with OXY and about 3/4 gal of water. The ride home provides the action in the rear of a 3/4 ton. Rinse with water and tumble in ceramic media and you have new cases. A lot of BP shooters have went over to the ceramic media, not only because it cleans the best but it is for ever as it doesn't wear out. Have fun and let the flames and smoke begin!!

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Thanks Cajun... I will have to give the Ceramic a try. I have for years just let me Black brass air dry and it is all BLACK.
I have not tried the Mobile 1 either... THANKS !!

[StrawHat]

Like Cajun Shooter, I also use a caseful of powder. Either 2F or 3F depending on what is on hand.

A good black powder lube and some synthetic on the base pin and I'm good for the afternoon. I do not shoot in competition though so I don't shoot volumes of cartridges.

For clean up, I dump the cases in a milk jug with water and a bit of window cleaner. Cap it and carry it home. Once home, a couple of shakes, dry them and tumble them.

A lot of fun shooting but more fun sorting through all the good information to arrive at what is your best load.

Enjoy, it will be a blast!

[cajun shooter]

Let me add that when you open the container that contains the cleaning mix, it will have a very strong odor and your brass will have a splotched look. Don't panic! Rinse well and tumble with the ceramic media and it's cleaner that's added to the water with the ceramic. The brass will be cleaner than the day is was bought. It does cost a little to get started with the ceramic. Around $50 for a 8 lb bag and 8oz of additive. You also really need a spinning type tumbler and not vibratory. I first tried using the UV-18 thumblers that I have and ended up buying another spinning thumbler's tumbler from Buffalo Arms. They have everything you need and at the cheapest prices that I could find.

[Springfield]

Or if you are a cheapskate like me and already have a vibratory tumbler(or 3) , just go to the auto parts store and buy some paint swirl remover. Dump some in the media in your tumbler and not only will the brass come out looking new, the dust will have been eliminated also. Puts on a better shine than the ceramic too.

[Wayne Smith]

I've been using 3mm ceramic balls in my Lyman vibratory for years with complete success and no problems. I've a dedicated small bowl for it.

[Dale53]

Most any media (ground corn cobs, ground walnut shells, or other) will give nice shiny cases on the outside. Where the ceramic "shines" (pun intended) is that the ceramic beads of the correct size also cleans the cases INSIDE. Most media used do little to clean the inside of a case. The ceramic media and it's recommended liquid DOES.

Dale53

[cajun shooter]

Dale you hit it and I forgot to include that in my post about the ceramic. I tried using the corn cob with different cleaners as well as the walnut hulls with the rouge and they do shine the out side but leave the inside black. The ceramic will clean the entire case and the plus side is it does not wear out, so you don't have to keep buying those 50lb bags of media.

[Springfield]

My powder never complained abut the inside of the cases being black. Once I put the bullet on it's dark in there anyway!

[azcoyhunter]

When you shoot Black Powder in a 45 LC, do you use regular Large Pistol Primers?

I have requested Mike Venturino's book, "Shooting Sixguns of the Old West" from a interlibrary loan program where I work.

That should help

Thanks

[Dale53]

azcoyhunter;
I must apologize to you. The book I have, authored by Mike Venturino, that covers black powder revolvers is, "Shooting Colt Single Actions". The book I referred you to, "Shooting Sixguns of the Old West" may or may not have that information. If you lived closer, I would buy you a beer or beverage of your choice as an apology.

At any rate, to answer your question: I have used Winchester large pistol primers as well as Federal's with no problems whatsoever. Mike Venturino recommends magnum primers. I suggest you try what you have and if they work for you, well, the question is answered.

The thing that I found to be critical is the exclusive use of a good black powder bullet lube (SPG is the gold standard, but I used Emmert's Home Mix). The other critical thing is to use a grease to lube the cylinder pin, heavily. I used Rig but I understand that Rig is no more. Cajun Shooter recommends the use of Mobil 1 Red Synthetic grease for this purpose. As a matter of fact, I stopped by AutoZone and picked up a grease gun cartridge of this to try. I have no doubt that it'll work well. Thank you, Cajun Shooter. It cost about $7.00 a cartridge but that should be pretty nearly a lifetime supply. I'm going to share mine with my buddies.

Dale53

[azcoyhunter]

Dale53,


NO PROBLEM, I am sure it will be good reading, and when I finish, I will just get the other book!!!

Few Questions,
What is black powder bullet lube? I use LLA now...
How do you apply?

Thanks

[cajun shooter]

Hey Mark, I never thought about it but maybe that powder would prefer a nice dark home to sit in until all hell breaks loose. You know a place for peace and quiet to meditate about ones own life cycle. azcoy hunter don't use any oil based lube with the BP unless you want to spend some time cleaning tar out your bbl. Go to search and look up lubes. This has been talked about in length on this forum. Also read Goat Lips pan lubing and all the recipes for making your own lube.

[azcoyhunter]

cajun Shooter,

Thanks for the HEADS UP!!!

I will search...

I like the idea of making my own lube.

As you can tell, I have never shot Black Powder...

[Wayne Smith]

Read about lubes but for BP stop at Emmerts or one of the variations thereof. Don't confuse yourself.

[Dale53]

azcoyhunter;
Original Emmert's recipe:
50% Pure Natural Beeswax
40% Crisco (plain vegetable shortening that looks kind of like white, soft
grease - no additives)
10% Canola Oil

I modified Emmerts slightly by reducing the Canola oil to 5% and added 5% Anhydrous Lanolin. This tends to extend the life of Emmert's after it is applied to the bullet.

I can apply Emmert's with a Star, RCBS, or Lyman sizer but for the large soft bullets for my 40/65, 45/70, and 45/90 I apply the lube to these bullets by pan lubing then sizing in a Lee Loading Press sizer. For my black powder cartridge revolvers, I apply with the lube sizer (RCBS, Star, or Lyman).

I cannot overemphasize the NEED to use a good black powder lube for black powder. There has been more people turned off black powder shooting by using the wrong lube than most anyone can realize. SPG is an excellent commercial lube, Emmert's seems equally good to me and costs a fraction of the cost, and i have also used Lars White Label Black Powder lube but it is not available AT THIS TIME. Hopefully, Lars will be back with it. He sells it at a most reasonable price either by the stick or by bulk (one pound at $9.50 + Shipping) if you are going to pan lube. I suspect his lube components are available on a seasonal basis. Lars White label black powder lube also works well through a lube/sizer, as does SPG and Emmert's.


Dale53

[Springfield]

RIG is no more? Dang, that was my favorite too. But I already have some red synthetic grease I lube my BMW w/ sidecar motorcycle with, so no problem.