Blue Dot in a 44 mag

[arcticbreeze]

Has anyone used Blue Dot in 44 Mag revolver? I have load data for it but was wondering if anyone had good results with it. I have some and was thinking of trying it with a Lee 240 gr SWC GC boolit. Something hot enough for deer out to 50 yards and possibly small to medium pigs.

[pdawg_shooter]

I have in the past for mid-range loads. For full power loads I prefer H110.

[jimkim]

I have used it in the past with good results. It was one of my favorite powders until I got some AAC-#7.

[rbuck351]

I'm using Blue Dot in a ruger Vaquero 7.5in with a 247gr cast swc plain base.
11gr=1050fps
14.2gr=1247fps
18gr=1486fps this one is one the border of max

Also use a Lee 312gr cast w/ gc and Blue Dot
12.5gr=1158fps
13gr=1180fps
13.5=1200fps
14gr=1237fps cases start to get a little sticky I don't go beyond 13.5gr but as always start low and work up as your gun will be different.

In short, I like Blue Dot and also use it in a 41mag. Did see a warning about Blue Dot in the 41mag but I have never had a problem.

[arcticbreeze]

Thanks for the replies. I have a bunch of blue dot right now. I wanted to order some powder and primers but I can't find anyone that has everything I need in stock so I am waiting because I don't want to pay the hazmat twice. Things are nuts right now.

[felix]

Rbuck, How old is that BlueDot? ... felix

[jnovotny]

I've used bluedot in the past. It shoots good but is awful dirty, always left a lot of soot on my revolver. I've been useing Bullseye, cause I got a crap load, it's a little cleaner but Bluedot was more accurate, with the j word.

[Snapping Twig]

BD has issues. Loaded to max levels it can be dangerous. Loaded light it's dirty.

BD is the only powder I've tried that I refuse to use. YMMV.

[454PB]

Rbuck uses a little more than I do, but Bluedot is my midrange powder for everything from .357 magnum to .454 Casull. I like it so much, I buy it in the 5 pound containers. Since I'm well stocked, I haven't yet used the Alliant stuff, mine is all Hercules.

In the many thousands of rounds I've fired, I've yet to see any of the unusual pressure spikes I've read about.

[sargenv]

I always liked Blue Dot as my go to powder for heavier bullet 357 magnum loads and always found it to be a tad blasty and fierce for 44 magnum. I prefer to use 2400, H110, 296, or these days Lil Gun..

[Randall]

15 grains of blue dot and a 250 grain cast was my favorite load for years. Now I use 8 grains of Unique to go easy on my tendonitis.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

I've used Blue Dot in my 44's at times, but i like 2400 better, I still use it in 45 colt with 300gr boolits. Like others, I think 2400, h-110 & 296 are better powders in the 44 maggie,
Good shooting

[Lloyd Smale]

me too. I wont use it in anything anymore.
BD has issues. Loaded to max levels it can be dangerous. Loaded light it's dirty.

BD is the only powder I've tried that I refuse to use. YMMV.

[Larry Gibson]

Since I have a TC .44 mag barrel wired for the M43 Oehler to measure pressures I may load rbuck351's;

I'm using Blue Dot in a ruger Vaquero 7.5in with a 247gr cast swc plain base.
11gr=1050fps
14.2gr=1247fps
18gr=1486fps this one is one the border of max

using the RCBS 44-250-K. My Ble Dot is of current manufacture and is dated; Feb 22, 2008, Shift 2, Lot 289.

I will find out if Blue Dot "has issues" or is "dangerous" because of pressure spikes with 250 gr cast bullets in the .44 magnum. I will report back as it might be toward the end of next month before i get to it.

Larry Gibson

[felix]

Thanks, Larry. I typically use 14.5 in the Smiths with the 250 grainers, both checked and PB versions. Use the same boolits with 15.0 in the leverguns. Old lot, 1990 year approximate. ... felix

[leadman]

I have used alot of Blue Dot in the past. About 8 to 10 months ago I bought a new 5# container.
Not the same powder as the Alliant I had before!!! Light loads are dirty where they were fine before. Builds pressure very fast after a certain point.
I contacted Alliant about using it in the 41 mag with cast and got the o.k. from them. Even with the recommended loads my stainless gun looked flat black after about 30 rounds.

Accuracy seems to hace fallen off also. I am going to try it in the 30-30 with 125gr jackets as this worked real well before.

[dougader]

My Blue Dot is from 1990 or thereabouts. I used to load 16 grains Blue Dot under a 240 grain hardcast SWC for my BIL's SBH. It shot real well.

Maybe the newer Blue Dot is dirty, but the stuff I have is much cleaner than H110/WW296. Loaded light, it just doesn't burn completely and you have little blue and gray flakes left in the gun.

[rbuck351]

Felix
I am not sure how old it is but at least 10 yrs maybe closer to 20

[Fan of the 1911]

Have run Blue dot in 15 and 17 grains under a 200 gr laser cast, its dirty for me too. But it does shoot good and fairly accurate. Have cast a few of my own now and I'm going to switch to H110 and play around with it a while.

[felix]

You'd be better off using a faster powder with those 200s. What else do you have on the bench? ... felix

[leadman]

Shot some loads in my 30-30 Handi-rifle with 311041. Did real well! Burned cleaned and had some groups under an inch at 100yards. Seems like the "old" Blue dot in a rifle.
Same#5 container that burned so dirty in my SBHH 41 mag.

Pleased with the results in this rifle.

[powerglide]

Blue dot is great but smokes.

[Larry Gibson]

repost.

Larry Gibson

Hercules Blue Dot VS Alliant Blue Dot; .44 Magnum

Date: 15 April, 2009
Location: Tacoma Rifle and Revolver Range, University Place, Washington
Time: 1300 – 1600
Temperature: 43 – 50 degrees F.
Atmospheric pressure: 29.92
Wind: 2-5 mph from 0530
Test instrument: Oehler M43 Personal Ballistics Laboratory
Test Cartridge: .44 Magnum
Test Case: WW Winchester
Test primer: Federal 150 Large Pistol
Test Powders:
Hercules Blue Dot lot #BD152 purchased 10-15+ years ago as the price was $11.89
Alliant Blue Dot lot #289 shift 2, Feb 22, 2008 with a price of $20.89
Powder charge weights: 14.5 to 18.4 gr in .5 grain increments with all charges weighed on a Redding
powder scale
Test Bullet: RCBS 44-250-K cast of 60-40 WW (new) – linotype alloy, weight 252 gr, sized .430 in
Lyman 450 and lubed with Javelina
Load OAL: 1.705”
Crimp: Case mouth crimped completely under edge of forward driving band
Loading dies used: RCBS with carbide sizer
Shots in test string; 5
Test sequence: a test string was fired with the Hercules powder then the subsequent test string was of the same charge weight of Alliant powder. Thus test strings were concurrent from 14.5 gr up through the 18.4 gr powder charge weight

Results:
The M43 PBL provides much information that would result in an overly long report. Pertinent to the question of the difference between the older Hercules Blue Dot and the new Alliant Blue Dot is the comparison of velocity and pressure per a equal charge weight of each powder. Thus I shall report the muzzle velocity (corrected to muzzle by the M43) and the pressure (rounded to nearest 100 psi so 20,500 psi will read 20,5) for each powder charge weight of both Hercules and Alliant Blue Dots. The format will read the powder charge with the initial H or A in front, the muzzle velocity and the pressure in psi(M43).



H14.5/1330/24,3
A14.5/1310/25,2
H15/1368/26,3
A15/1340/27,4
H15.5/1412/28,5
A15.5/1380/28,3
H16/1447/30,4
A16/1438/31,6
H16.5/1493/32,6
A16.5/1464/31,4
H17/1521/32,4
A17/1498/32,8
H17.5/1541/31,4*
A17.5/1527/31,4*
H18/1565/29,1*
A18/1569/24,4*
H18.4/1589/20,5*
A18.41583/23,0*

* Note; these pressures are not misprints.

Discussion/conclusion; the tests proved interesting to say the least. I did not find any incident or indication of “pressure spikes”. To the contrary I found that as the load (17.5 gr and above) exceeded 100% loading density and be came compressed the pressure curve became longer with less pressure. As the powder charge increased and compression of the powder charge became greater the bottom literally fell out pressure wise. The velocity increase per increased powder charge also began to lesson. I discussed this at length with Dr, Oehler. While he modestly says he is not a ballistician (he is a gentleman of the old school) he thinks that ignition is a problem with the compressed loads. A magnum primer may or may not improve ignition and would have to be tested.

Quite frankly I find the 17 gr load of either the Hercules or the Alliant Blue Dot powder to be a good practical maximum with this bullet. Looking at the graph of PSI vs Powder charge we see that 17 gr is the peak with both powders. However when we look at the graph of FPS vs Powder charge it is difficult to make that distinction when comparing them to each other. The old Hercules Blue Dot loading data per Lyman was 15 to 18.4 gr with the 429421 cast bullet. The new Alliant Blue Dot data as per the “New Edition” 48th Lyman manual is 14.5 to 16 gr with that same 429421 cast bullet. Interesting to note is that with 429244 they listed 14 to 17.4 gr of Alliant Blue Dot. The Lyman pressures are lited in CUPs which aren’t directly convertible to psi so I won’t go there.

Keep in mind also the TC Contender hasn’t the long throat or the barrel/cylinder gap of revolvers. Thus the pressures in revolvers would no doubt be a little less per given powder charge. I will work up the same loads with Alliant Blue Dot from 14.5 to 17.5 gr in the ½ gr increments. I will then test these in my Ruger BH 50th Anniversary with 6 ½” barrel. Of course I do not have a strain gauge on the Ruger so I will be depending on the chronographed results to give indications of a good load, a bad load or “pressure spiking’.

I’ve graphed out comparing the FPS gain per charge weight and the psi gain per charge weight. Looking at both graphs it is apparent that with this test both the Hercules and Alliant Blue Dots are within normal lot to lot variation of each other. Basically, based on this test with a normal weight range cast bullet, there is no apparent difference between them either in burning rate or burning characteristics. Further testing with light weight jacketed bullets is in order but with the current situation I’ve not been able to find either 180 or 200 gr .44 jacketed bullets. Further testing in other cartridges such as the .357 and .41 magnums is in order also.

The photo of the fired cases is as they were fired in order. The green box contained the Hercules loads and the red box the Alliant loads. There was no indication of cartridges stick as all were easily extracted from the chamber of the Contender barrel with fingers. There is no appreciable indication of pressure by the look of the primers.

I shall continue to use Alliant Blue Dot as I find it to be a very fine powder for certain applications as id found the old Hercules Blue Dot to be. When using Alliant Blue Dot in a cartridge for which I only have older Hercules Blue Dot loads I will carefully work up loads again. I suggest anyone taking this data to do so with caution and work up your own loads as per instructions in all loading manuals.

Larry Gibson

[felix]

Good show, Larry! Thanks. ... felix

[454PB]

Very interesting, and thank you, Larry!

[madsenshooter]

Thanks Larry, very interesting indeed. I use Blue Dot quite a bit with my cast rifle loads, and used it to ruin a Ruger Bisley in 45LC a long time ago (the frame and cylinder of a Bisley in 45LC will handle 45Win Mag pressures, but a .45 cal barrel won't). I've always used magnum primers with it and especially found that the magnum primer makes a whale of a difference in the accuracy of rifle loads. I shared this with Seafire, known BD nut, and he has found the same accuracy improvement in his rifle loads.

[zxcvbob]

I bought a pound of BD to use in .357 Magnum and didn't like it. Also tried it in .30 Carbine and didn't like it. Burned up the rest in hot .45LC loads for my Ruger Bisley-Blackhawk and it worked wonderful there (16.5 grains with 250 and 255 grain cast bullets.) The same load should work great in .44 Magnum with 240 grain boolits -- it's pretty close to max so be careful.

I wish I had given up sooner on the .357 so I would have had more powder left over for the .45

[felix]

It appears BD needs a little more oxygen to play right. It can be caused by the deterrent being a little strong for what we are using the powder for. The indicators are the powder's cold weather attribute, its dislike for compression, boost of energy via a cylinder gap, a more forceful primer, a larger case. I personally like the powder and have never been tempted to use it for extreme applications, like small cases and max power loads. A powder in this speed range SHOULD never need a mag primer of any flavor. This information alone makes this experiment of Larry's very worth while, especially if he chooses to re-do the 15.5 load with all sorts of primers. ... felix

I cannot complain about the accuracy with the "correct" loads. ... felix

[dale2242]

My Ruger 44 SBH loves 14 gr Blue Dot with 245-250 gr booolits...dale