cigarette rollers

[scrapcan]

I have seen this mentioned several times and I would like to see a picture of what model you guys are using.

Are you using the small hand held or the table top with the handle and double rollers?

Just curious.

[docone31]

This is like the one I use.
http://www.ryotobacco.com/page/ryot/PROD/hroll/rayo70
I get the type you find in convience stores.

[scrapcan]

thanks docone1, this is what I that is what I thought some were using.

I have seen one used that sets on the table when I was kid. I have never been a smoker but love the smell of fresh tobacco before rolling or when stuffing a pipe.


anywho, When you do this do you put the boolit in and then feed the patch like when rolling the smoke?

[docone31]

No.
With a roller, I have found,
Soak the patch. It all works best with the patch absolutely soaking.
Lay the patch on the apron, about midway between the open rollers.
Lay the casting on the patch. The tip of the patch should be where you want the patch to end in height.
Close the roller, roll, then keep rolling. Remove the casting/patched boolitt. Twist the tail, let dry at least over night.
The patch will come out almost dry from the squeegee effect of the rollers.
You will have to determine the direction of the roll, which direction you want the patch to lay, and how high you want the patch to be.
I found, if I hold the roller in both hands, with the opening roller away from me, then lay the tip so the base of the wrap is going to my right, it rolls well.
You will have to find that one. I am a lefty, so I do it almost backwards.

[Linstrum]

Hmm, never considered using a machine to put a paper patch on! It might tear the paper, but on the other hand it just may be great!

Unfortunately I can't supply photos because I recently moved and I can't lay my hands on the cigarette rolling machines I have used over the years.

The machine I like the best is the Laredo, which uses pre-formed paper tubes and bulk-purchased filters. I make my own tubes by rolling up gummed Top/Bugler papers on a regular-sized pencil, and I get my filters by buying ultra-lite cigarettes and cutting the filters in half, smoking the store-bought smokes as well as my rolled ones.

One other machine I used to use is like the one in the photo at the link in the post above. About 35 years ago I gave it to an old cowboy who had a hard time rolling his own anymore because of arthritis.

The other machine I have used is a table-top model with a convex curved bed that backs up a rubberized canvas belt and a platen on a frame that follows the radius of the curved bed. When the platen frame is swung on its pivot it rolls a trough into the canvas belt that holds and roll-forms the tobacco into a compacted rod shape. Just before the frame is swung to the end of its travel a regular sheet of cigarette paper is inserted into the trough and the canvas belt rolls the paper around the outside of tobacco in the trough. The main problem with that machine is that it can roll a cigarette so tight it won't draw, so it takes a bit of experimentation to get it to work right. But once everything gets working just right it makes pretty good smokes fast.

I know a picture is worth a thousand words, but a thousand words is all I've got at the moment.


rl513

[docone31]

A paper cutter, is like shears. The cut edge is excellent.
The machine you gave away is the one that I use that works. The table top one does not compress, and roll the paper. It only rolls it.
When I use the hand held machine, I keep rolling once the patch is completely in the machine.
I have been lucky this way. I never used a board. I got my primary sizes from here, and had a machine on hand. I tried it out, although backwards, wrapped base first, like Duh!, but they worked.
I couldn't believe it.
I had seen paper patched loads in a museum when I was about 9, or 10yrs old, and always wanted to shoot something that used them. I had no clue any rifle pretty much can use them.
Once I found my size, I was good to go. In my .30s, .309 is my sweet spot with ALL of them.
They perform better than jacketed, at least in grouping.
It is the one you gave away.

[montana_charlie]

Are you using the small hand held or the table top with the handle and double rollers?
I heard that docone31 waits until all of his family members are sound asleep, then he creeps out of the house with a five gallon bucket of bullets and a ream of paper.

He sneaks into an old abandoned Winston production plant, and uses their equipment to wrap his bullets.

My source says it took several visits before he learned how to wrap paper on a bullet...without having one of those danged filters on the back end!
CM

[docone31]

Hey Charlie, my wife was looking over my shoulder!
She is asking me some questions.
I never thought I would get narced on this forum!!!
Oiy!Oiy! Weeping and Gnashing of teeth.

[montana_charlie]

Oops! Sorry, man.
I'll be careful not to say anything about that cute security guard at the old Winston plant...and how you managed to convince her to let you sneak in.
CM

[docone31]

You mean Bambi?
I thought no one knew.
I hope Bubbles keeps quiet.

[montana_charlie]

You mean Bambi?
I thought no one knew.
I don't think she has said anything, but anyone can see those paper patched bullets in her cute little cartridge belt...and in that darling little Lady Smith they issued her.

If anybody ever asks where she got them, do you think she's gonna say Quigley gave 'em to her?

I hope Bubbles keeps quiet.
Bubbles won't say a word as long as you keep her in cheesburgers. But, I never quite understood why she insists on drinking diet soda...

[docone31]

Nah man, she is the one who flattens empty beer cans with her hooter!
Watching that is enough to melt the roughest caster alive!
I mean, she whips them out and everyone gasps for air!
She can't even hold a patched anyting with both hands at the same time!

[runfiverun]

tell me more about the filter on the base of the boolit thing.
do they come in different lengths so i can seat them all the way on top of the powder?
or do they only come short so i have to use a double filler?
can i just use the filter and not the paper?
questions ,questions....

[montana_charlie]

tell me more about the filter on the base of the boolit thing.

questions ,questions....
docone31 can show you which production line (in that old facility) is the one that puts filters on. From there, you are on your own.

But first you have to convince Bambi to let you in...and cross Bubbles' palm with a large order of fries to keep her quiet.

[docone31]

Hey Charlie!
Dubber can use some of your expertise. I am getting fairly proficient in the smaller calibers. He is prepareing a .50 double rifle.
He is perhaps more in your league than I can advise. My approach might not be the best for his 50/90.

[rhead]

The cheap little topps roller would require a massive rebuild to roll a bullet that size. It works great on the 270 and 22 and 30 cal. I haven't tried the 8 mm yet but I don't think anything significantly larger would fit. Until I can find a larger model I will still be hand wrapping the larger slugs.

[montana_charlie]

Hey Charlie!
Dubber can use some of your expertise.
I have been reading along.

[docone31]

rhead,
I have been hopeing beyond hope, some machineist on this forum might just undertake to make a size for the over .32cal castings.
Looking at the cheapies which I use, it might be a small matter of just opening the slotted hole for the roller.
I cannot begin to tell you how tight that roller makes my patches!

[BPCR Bill]

Back when I was a youngster in Montana .and rollin' my own Durhams, I never thought of using a roller. Quit the habit years ago, now I want to get a rolling machine for those patch boolits! Never even gave a rolling machine a thought while twisting paper on those lead beauties, though it felt like I was rollin' a smoke.. Kinda nostalgic!

Best Regards,
Bill

[docone31]

Bill, many, many times I have tried to roll my own the real guy way.
I never could! To this day, I cannot.
I noticed, useing those cheapos, I could tighten up a cigarette to where it was impossible to drag on.
Many years later, when I first started considering rolling boolitts, it popped into my head about those machines and how tight they wrapped if you dragged on the fixed roller!
When it came time, my first patch was a winner. .0005 smaller than recquired, but a winner none the less.
With the smaller boolitts, which I do, they are the Grail!

[BPCR Bill]

Bill, many, many times I have tried to roll my own the real guy way.
I never could! To this day, I cannot.
I noticed, useing those cheapos, I could tighten up a cigarette to where it was impossible to drag on.
Many years later, when I first started considering rolling boolitts, it popped into my head about those machines and how tight they wrapped if you dragged on the fixed roller!
When it came time, my first patch was a winner. .0005 smaller than recquired, but a winner none the less.
With the smaller boolitts, which I do, they are the Grail!

I know this sounds more like urban legend stuff, but it's the truth. I knew old Cowboys who could roll Durhams one-handed sitting atop a horse, reins in the other hand. Good lookin' smokes, too! I could never get that good.I imagine Paper patching at the table was pretty easy for those fellas..

Regards,
Bill

[Linstrum]

My Dad was a champeen by-hand cigarette roller, although he wasn't a cowboy. I learned it from him back around 1958 and he learned it from his uncle back around 1930. His uncle rolled them with one hand because he only had one hand. I can roll them so tight with my fingers that they won't draw. The trick is that they aren't actually rolled, they are folded and then pinched together tightly with the fingers just before licking to seal the edge, and if you keep that in mind it will help in "rolling" your own. After folding them together and sealing the edge the next step is to work around the tobacco to make them round instead of oval so they look like store-bought. Crimp cut tobacco works the best for hand rolling for me, I tried Bull Durham once and it was too flaky to roll well.


rl514

[cowboyt]

An old cowboy many years ago taught me- he gave me a can of bugler and a pak of La Crosse wheat papers and a big bowl- said to roll-em over the bowl,then tear-em apart and do it again till I got it right and what-ever way worked for me was the way to do it. After several hours I got the hang of it!!- ya cant buy wheat papers any more and I had to quit or die quick- Well I ain't dead- so- ya all know that I quit. I was 12 then and also learned that theres more than one way to skin a cat!!

Cowboyt

[leftiye]

I wonder if we could just scale up a roller from the size of the store bought ones. Could be machined from nylon, and the only problem would be to make a good belt for it.

[docone31]

THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET SOMEONE TO TRY!
I am no machineist, that is what I have been saying. If it works for my .30s and .31s, why not scale it up? It should make for some daggoned tight big boy patching.
Makeing an apron should not be that hard. They are only vynl and it glues really easily.

[bobk]

docone31,
What's the biggest size boolit that will work?

Bob K

[docone31]

My guess is an 8mm is the upper limit. A .357 drops directly in.

[scrapcan]

Well now I thought my original question woudl die and untimely death. I am glad this has morphed into someting other than my questions. I would like to see someone make a larger roller. Cool idea, now I just have to sit back and wait to see what comes up.

[Naphtali]

In 1968, I had a cigarette rolling device that I remember as follows.

Rectangular metal housing on which was affixed lengthwise a rubberized matting. I think there was a crank [inside and] linked to a roller (rather large) whose function was to move-roll tobaccoed cigarette paper axially within a loop created by the rubberized matting. While the matting rotated the cigarette axially to create it, the crank created a wave-like motion to move the cigarette along the length of the matting. I recall being able to roll very thick cigarettes, and the mechanism was so flexible that were this device available today, it should be capable of rolling .45-caliber bullets.

I have no idea where I would have bought the device. It is likely the device was inexpensive and not difficult to find.

If anyone can identify the device from my description, please do it. I would buy it in a New York minute because I think it will work.

[rmb721]

Years ago when I smoked, I used the Humpback type. I drilled extra holes where the canvas attaches to the frame. Then I could adjust the size of the cigarette with the right amount of tobacco and be able to draw. I think it was a Buglar machine.

The last I smoked was 4-13-92. I tramped the last one out at the emergency room door.

[leftiye]

This is one of those places where one wonders if he shooda kept his mouth shut. I could try to make such a thing - the oversize cicarette roller, but like everyone else, I've got more irons in the fire than I can play with already.

Also, I'd like to get an idea about the rollers that rmb721, and naptali described. There may be an existing design that will already do our job. How good are you guys at drawing pictures? Does anybody know where to get these?

[Crash_Corrigan]

I went to one of the hundreds of smoke shops in Vegas run by an Indian dude. I sprang for about five bucks and bought a little plastic framed zig zig roller for cigarettes.

Put a .30 cal boolit in it and lay a soaked paper strip over it and roll it a couple of times. I let them dry overnight and next day lube with a dab of Butchers Paste wax and size em down to 312. Works great!

[docone31]

Hey Crash!
Welcome to the club.
I told everyone.

[revolver junkie]

i might call this a dumb question but would a roll box work?

[docone31]

I do not know if it would.
One of the advantages of useing rollers is when the patch is taken up, I can roll several more times to really tighten the patch and squeegee the water out of the paper. I do not know if what I call a short roll would work.

[jaydee1445]

In 1968, I had a cigarette rolling device that I remember as follows.

Rectangular metal housing on which was affixed lengthwise a rubberized matting. I think there was a crank [inside and] linked to a roller (rather large) whose function was to move-roll tobaccoed cigarette paper axially within a loop created by the rubberized matting. While the matting rotated the cigarette axially to create it, the crank created a wave-like motion to move the cigarette along the length of the matting. I recall being able to roll very thick cigarettes, and the mechanism was so flexible that were this device available today, it should be capable of rolling .45-caliber bullets.

I have no idea where I would have bought the device. It is likely the device was inexpensive and not difficult to find.

If anyone can identify the device from my description, please do it. I would buy it in a New York minute because I think it will work.


Found it called a HUMPBACK.
http://www.ryotobacco.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/hump.jpg
Found it @ the same place Doc got his little one. $9.95 and $10 for 5 Repacement belts
http://www.ryotobacco.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ryot&Product_Code=hump
Bet it will roll 45s if not drill a couple of holes:drinks:

[leftiye]

But will it wrap a .45 or .50 caliber boolit?

[docone31]

Yeah, if they do not fit directly, move the swing point.
I think, the same can be done with the smaller ones also.

[jaydee1445]

I ordered one so I will let you know what fits.:mrgreen:

[Slow Elk 45/70]

JayDee, Please do let us know, I've been watching this and it is very interesting, I hope it works, looks like it would be slick

[Linstrum]

The "humpback" machine pictured in post#36 above is one of the two types I obtained years ago. The humpback I have will roll a stogie-sized smoke by adjusting the length of the belt. I acomplished that by moving the fastening points of the rods that go through the sleeves in each end of the rubberized belt. Instead of drilling a bunch of holes and potentially weakening the frame, though, I'd check out some kind of fine-tuned adjustment to accommodate any diameter boolit desired. The length of the belt could be adjusted by rolling up one end like a window blind, rolling up the belt would shorten its length for paper patching .277 boolits, unrolling some of the belt to paper patch much larger .458 boolits. The mechanism for rolling up the belting could be done pretty easily by replacing one of the rods with a length of 1/16" diameter steel welding rod wire bent triple like a hair pin with an extra leg so it will have a pin sticking out each end to go through the existing holes in the rolling machine frame. I need to dig out my rolling machine and try it.


rl520

[jaydee1445]

The humpback was really tight on a.44. Running slug through bowed the rods that holds the belt. The belt has some stretch to it so the tail was crimped over the base some.
I really need to take some time and play with it but it looks promising.

[Linstrum]

Hey, there, jaydee1445, on your humpback, take one of the rods off that fastens the belt and then hold on to it with your fingers while rolling up one of your .44s. Keep tension on it by pulling on it gently while operating the roller lever.

I still haven't found my old humpback to try it out myself, but I'll bet that with a little practice you may find you don't need both ends of the belt fastened to the machine for it to work. A spring might work to tension the belt instead of pulling on it with your fingers; the spring could be fastened to the belt by making up a yoke out of coat hanger wire for the ends of the rod to go through, with the other end of the spring fastened to a board with the humpback machine mounted on the board with some wood screws. The spring wouldn't need to be powerful at all, a screen door spring would probably be way too much.


rl523

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Linstrum, thanks for the idea, I've been watching this thread and now I have something to try that may make big difference. I have the Humpback, so I will experiment.

[scrapcan]

Now we are seeing what we need to see, innovation. One of you guys needs to put up a video of using one of the rollers.

[bonza]

Any update on using these rollers for larger (.40+) calibers?

[RMulhern]

I don't need no stickin machine!!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5268/5668427314_520ca33684.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/61286670@N08/5668427314/)
Patchedbullets (http://www.flickr.com/photos/61286670@N08/5668427314/) by Sharps45 2 7/8 (http://www.flickr.com/people/61286670@N08/), on Flickr