WC-844 vs ACCURATE 2520...

[BCB]

My WC-844 is Lot # 726 (a couple of grains slower than H-335) and my Accurate 2520 is Lot # PSA-04, 122-94.
Has anyone used these 2 powders in the same cartridge with the same weight cast bullet as a comparison of burning rates of each powder?
I have 3 very accurate loads using WC-844 in the 30-30, the 7-30, and the .223 (jacketed bullets for this varmint shooter). It has dawned on me that my 8-pound keg of WC-844 is not going to last forever. I do have an 8-pound keg of Accurate 2520 so I thought I might attempt to use it in the 3 cartridges mentioned.
Any thoughts on the comparison of burning rate for these 2 powders? Thanks…BCB

[TCLouis]

Tell me about this ACCURATE WC844 and 30-30 load.
If you are that much slower you may well be in the same ballpark with the 2520.

[BCB]

TCLouis,

The following are loads that were the most accurate in my T/C Super 14 in 30-30 cartridge. Remember, my lot of WC-844 is slower than H-335 and CCI-200 primers were used.

30 grains…311041…1654 fps…100-150 yards accuracy
30 grains…C309-150F…1640 fps…100-150 yards accuracy
33 grains…C309-113F…2149 fps…up to 100 yards accuracy

As can be noted with the same weight charge for the 170 and 150 grain bullet, the 170 gave a few more fps velocity. The “soup can� bullet, in my opinion, is too light to be effective with slower powders…Good velocity, but only acceptable accuracy out to 100 yards. This powder seems to work much more efficiently when pushed to higher, but acceptable, pressures. This I also discovered using it in the 7-30 Waters and the Lyman 287346. I especially noticed this in the .223 Remington (Super 16�) and a 45 grain V-Max Hornady bullet. I am getting 3299 fps and accuracy is unbelievable! I suspect the charge of WC-844 that I am using is at or slightly over MAXIMUM. I will have to be extremely careful as the varmint season begins to get good for groundhogs and the weather begins to warm. It may prove over maximum. Be careful with any of the data listed. It was O.K. in my Contender but who knows what it might do in other firearms. Good-luck…BCB

[sundog]

BCB, check castpics for 844 in the 30-30. There is one load listed that I tested with the 31141. Also tested in .32 Spl with the RCBS 32-170-FN. I got 2230-C from Powder Valley for $65 and so far it works good in .308 with Nos 125 BT. They also now have a powder called Data Powder 73 that is 5% faster than 2230. 2230 is close to H335 on the chart.

Felix, I got some of the Data Powder 73, so we'll be playing with that also. btw, this 'new' powder is only $52. If it goes bang and hits the target, what else could a feller ask for, other than cheap? sundog

[felix]

Way to go, Sundog! Should have gotten two jugs for that price! Always can find an application, sooner or later. For fun, we need to do a compare job with the xx-30s. Let's plan on that after I take Pat to the airport. Sunday afternoon on the April 24th. Hope it is not raining!!! ... felix

[sundog]

Two jugs, you say? I did! And four 2230-C! Just tryin' to stay a leg up on ya! Big 10-4 on Sunday the 24th. sundog

[felix]

2230-C ... which is expected to be like a BLC2/WC846/AA2460....
Data73 ... I wonder if it is CMR100, a quasi 3031? Yes, if single base stick!

[sundog]

I guess I need to open a jug and take a look, because I don't have a clue right now. I do know that CMR100 is dandy with the Midway Dogtown bullets in .222 Rem. sundog

[felix]

Actually, the 223C would be good in the 222 as well. I've noticed in the old days that the light weight boolits shot extremely well with slow ball powders. In fact, I think the bench gun shot the 40 grain hornet boolit with a BLC2 lot of some sort. Unfortunately, Bruce Hodgdon in those days canned up many different BLCs, each with a significantly different burn speed. He provided ample warning in his paper folded handouts not to treat them as one lot. We are talking dates from the middle 60's thru the 80's here when these powders were actually shiney new. Perhaps they did not meet govt standards at the time, and would not be melted down and re-rolled/re-painted for a more commensurate speed to what a previous, acceptable lot would do. In those days it was just cheaper to make a new batch. Electricity was cheap! ... felix

[Maineboy]

2230-C ... which is expected to be like a BLC2/WC846/AA2460....
Data73 ... I wonder if it is CMR100, a quasi 3031? Yes, if single base stick!
Felix, I wouldn't call CMR100 a quasi 3031. In my Marlin 45-70 using the Lee 405FP, 50 grains of 3031 chronographs at 1660 and 50 grains of CMR100 chronographs at 1870

[felix]

Glad you did that, Mainboy! I knew CMR100 was quite faster than H335/WC844, but not that much faster. You're talking a 10 percent speed jump minimum, probably more like 15 percent. Sundog and I will watch for that when we do some trials in smaller bores soon. We have a bunch of powders to try out to say the least. I will bring up my lots known to be different than Sundog's. ... felix

[Maineboy]

Felix, I initially found out that CMR100 was much faster than thought when I tried to substitute it for 3031 my 300 Savage. 39 grains of 3031 and a 150 grain Sierra RN bullet was an accurate, safe load in my Savage 99. Foolishly I tried 39 grains of CMR100 thinking it was a bit slower than 3031. Big mistake...the two rounds I fired had pretty flat primers and were sticky to extract. I wonder if it is more like Reloder 7?

[Bass Ackward]

Felix, I initially found out that CMR100 was much faster than thought when I tried to substitute it for 3031 my 300 Savage. 39 grains of 3031 and a 150 grain Sierra RN bullet was an accurate, safe load in my Savage 99. Foolishly I tried 39 grains of CMR100 thinking it was a bit slower than 3031. Big mistake...the two rounds I fired had pretty flat primers and were sticky to extract. I wonder if it is more like Reloder 7?

David,

I would put it around RL10X which is just slightly slower than 4198 / RL7.

[sundog]

Well, I got around to opening one of the jugs of Data 73. It looks like a flattend ball powder, certainly NOT stick. Label reads 'Made in USA' and "Western Powder', and has some date for .223 and .308. Didn't take long for them to start using the Accurate label, did it? Stuff looks like H116, but looks can deceive (means nothing - just looks like it).

As far as CMR100 in .222 Rem, I have a chrono tape that says on 11/6/04 that I shot seven rounds of 21.0/CMR100, 55 gr Midway Dogtown bullet, and it went avg 2672.1, SD 14.6, and ES 45.7. That was out of a very short, but very legal, barrel Sako. Accurate load, too.

Observation: having a chrono make it possible to play with these 'undocumented' powders. sundog

edit: My jug of CMR100 is Lot # 500-10. It did NOT work in the 25-20 with cast boolits -- too much trash left over as in not enough pressure to burn.

[TCLouis]

Sundog
As I remember the ad in Bartlett's site it said the CMR100 was 3031 burning rate. Is that correct

Wish I had bought some of the CMR100, I'm staring to run out of M-9.

[sundog]

TCL, I have a note written in felt tip pen on the side of my jug that says, "4895 less 10%". That might put it in the ballpark with 4198 and 3031. But again, my experience with it is that it likes the higher side of the pressure curve to get a clean burn. sundog

[Maineboy]

Sundog, my observations of CMR100 are like yours. It works better with higher pressures. My best results have been with heavy side boolits and/or smaller cases. I also have tried it with dacron, in lighter charges, and it has worked quite well. One of my most accurate loads in the Finn M39 is 27 grains and the 311291 boolit with a tuft of dacron. Dacron has also tightened groups with this powder in my M70 30-06.

[BCB]

http://www.hunt101.com/img/273530.JPG

Hopefully the above will allow clicking to get to the picture...

That picture is the reason I was hoping the ACCURATE 2520 was very similar to my WC-844. I shot that groups this morning with a bit of breeze blowing also. Nope, that group wasn't shot with cast, but the WC-844 does work very well with the 7-30 Waters and the 30-30 using cast...BCB

[felix]

Yeah, these military powders have plenty of deterrents. Unfortunately, these deterrents seem to be in the graphite arena, and therefore don't burn worth a crap. The military's way of slowing down a fast batch, eh? The new powders coming off the line have a different deterrent which obviously burns much better while significantly slowing the burn down. However, the handloading line of powders probably still use a graphite like substance specifically for powder flow, and not for deterrent purposes. Speculation on my part. I need to stop in the Saint Marks "refinery" one of these days when I go back to the panhandle of FL to see one of my sisters and family. ... felix