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View Full Version : FAST ball powders intended for rimfire & powder actuated tools



Bert2368
02-24-2009, 03:29 PM
I am a pyrotechnist. Yes, I earn my living by blowing things up and setting them on fire (in a good way).

We use smokeless powders for some theatrical and special effects. In particualr, I've burned more green dot for indoor flame projector effects than I ever have or will in a shotgun- We buy it by the drum.

Some time back, Western Powder got us interested in researching other cheaper fast burning double based propellants that they thought might suit our needs. Long story short, these might spec out similar to the fastest double base canister reloading powders, but they didn't burn or ignite in a fashion similar enough to our standard green dot in open burning. I've got a fair ammount of these powder samples left- About 60 lb. of 7 different types. (We typicaly burn several ounces at a time for such effects) If you want to see what this looks like, look here (the segment titled "Hound of Hades" with the flame jets coming from the dog house)

http://www.daredeviloperacompany.com/mov_inferno_lg.html

From my conversations with the sales and technical folks at Western, these powders were mostly made in Belgium for manufacture of rimfire ammunition and/or blanks for powder actuated tools. They were not willing to discuss any other applications, these are generally sold in bulk to manucaturers who determine their proper and safe uses (and bear the liability for any miscalculations).

I would like to get these out of our magazine and put them to some better use than an expensive bonfire or garden fertilizer...

On hand I have Western #'s C-1010, 1020, 2020, 2030, 2040, 2050 and St. Mark's #138. These are all very fine grained ball or flattened ball powders, nitroglycerin contents range from the 30's to low 40's % range.

I have a sneaking suspicion that regardless of the supplier's reticence to make any recomends, some of these might perform similarly to the old "dust" bullseye. And I want to explore that possibility, preferably without losing any body parts.

Is anyone here familiar with these propellants? Or got any advice beyond "don't do that".

454PB
02-24-2009, 11:18 PM
I sure don't recognize any of those powder numbers, but it would be a shame to waste almost $1200 worth of powder.

I'm a patient guy that likes to experiment. If I had it, I would load some samples assuming it was Bullseye burn rate or faster, then do some chronographing.

felix
02-25-2009, 12:17 AM
With that much nitroglycerine, I can guarantee you that all those listed will be FASTER than Unique, and perhaps some, if not all, even faster than 700X. Yes, assume BE and verify with chrono. If you have many, many years of experience with a certain revolter, you can judge expertly by recoil and point of impact across a pond. ... felix

Bert2368
02-25-2009, 11:13 AM
Thanks Felix.

I am thinking the cheapest strong actioned center fires I have got would be a CZ 52 pistol ($115.00) or a Moisin Nagant rifle ($80.00). Starting with loads less than Bullseye of the slowest of the powders, dacron to hold powder over the primer and a light cast bullet. I'm not going to hand hold a gun untill I've seen the powder perform acceptably and uniformly. If I lose one or both guns while experimenting, I can live with it. Body parts, not so much...

I've got some S&B 7.62x25 in reloadable cases on hand. I'm going to have to look for reloadable 7.62x54R and the dies for both.

If it works, I'll report back. If not, it depends on how embarassing the failure was. Definitely going to wait for it to be above freezing outside as well!

felix
02-25-2009, 11:24 AM
Bert, if the literature you have indicates one or more of those powders is actually used in 22 rimfires, that powder can be as slow as Herco which is the standard speed for them. I would not assume that speed because of your experience in using them for pyro applications. The most likely one having Herco speed, from what I can visualize from what you have said, would be the one from Olin (St. Marks). You won't have any trouble finding the speeds you and others on the board can use in guns. Your technique indicated would be just fine to use. Use 3 grains of each powder for starters in the Mosin, with dacron using normal weight cast boolit. That would be enough to get just about any boolit completely out of the barrel. However, THAT must be verified by actual impact somewhere. I would use my swimming pool, shooting at the drain at a 45 degree angle with dacron wad, or loose toilet paper (my choice) over powder. ... felix

Three44s
02-26-2009, 12:02 AM
....... OR check the bore after each shot .......

Three 44s