Mixing for Alloys Question

[chipsxj]

Hello everyone!

Do I, the beginner, have the right concept here?

Determine the BRN that I want and then mix lead/tin/antimony/ect to get that BRN?

ex. 1 lb of pewter (92.5% sn, 6% sb, 1.5% cu) + 1.5 lb of linotype (4% sn, 12% sb, 84 pb) + 4 lb of lead (100.0%) to get BRN around 16-17

Also, if I add the different materials to get the lead to 90% with 5% sn and 5% sb - I will have Lyman #2?

I'm using the alloy calculator to check my numbers.

Thanks,
Chip

[centershot]

Yes, you can mix alloys to be a given BHN, but what properties will that alloy have? Hardness (BHN) is only one parameter, but how malleable is that alloy? What are it's casting characteristics? Lyman #2 is a well known alloy that has worked very well for many shooters. It casts beautifully ( It ought to, with 5% tin!) and produces a tough but malleable bullet due to the equal quantities of tin and antimony. Most of what I cast is 94-3-3, about 12 BHN and almost exactly the same as COWW + 2% tin. It casts great, shoots good and not as expensive as #2 alloy. For most shooting, rifle or pistol, you really won't need more than 12 BHN.

[Winger Ed.]

Depending on what you will be shooting, you may not need your alloy to be that hard.

It's real tempting to over think this stuff and start trying to split hairs.
For example:
You don't need the extra hardness just for 8-900-1,000-ish fps handgun boolits:
Save your money on alloys and add just enough Tin & other goodies to get good fill out in the mold.

[fredj338]

I think too many fret over BHN. it Just depends on what you are making bullets for. Rifles @ 2000fps, yes alloy will be more important than pistol bullets @ 1100fps.
Starting out, clip ww, if you can find them, really need nothing for most handgun applications. Then you can add other alloy to that for rifles. Adding antimony can be problematic, so using a known alloy like Lino or Mono to alloy your lead is just easier. Then of course you can water drop to up BHN & powder coating is a game changer for BHN too. I almost never add tin for my handgun bullets. I do PC & water drop out of the PC oven.

[LenH]

Fit is king! All else is secondary.


Most of my everyday shooting is done with range lead that is about 10 BNH.
My bullets for Bullseye shooting is somewhere in the hardball range92.-6-2

[jsizemore]

If you mix 3 ounces of pewter, 2 lbs of monotype and 3.5 lbs of lead you'll be really close to Lyman #2. If you balance the tin and antimony it acts more like a binary alloy than tertiary. If you find that your alloy is too hard just add more lead.

[chipsxj]

Thanks everyone.

I have not started casting yet.
I am working on understanding how it all works.
I'm re-reading my Lyman Cast handbook.

I appreciate everyones information and guidance.

[mehavey]

90% with 5% sn and 5% sb - I will have Lyman #2?Yes... by definition.

But with the metals you have on hand, I'd stick w/ two simple alloy mixes for general shooting.
(Don't overthink it.) [smilie=2:

#2-like performance:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?470579-Newbe-Question-about-Alloy-mixing-calculations&p=5749343&viewfull=1#post5749343

20-1 like performance:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?470579-Newbe-Question-about-Alloy-mixing-calculations&p=5749441&viewfull=1#post5749441

[chipsxj]

Yes... by definition.

But with the metals you have on hand, I'd stick w/ two simple alloy mixes for general shooting.
(Don't overthink it.) [smilie=2:

#2-like performance:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?470579-Newbe-Question-about-Alloy-mixing-calculations&p=5749343&viewfull=1#post5749343

20-1 like performance:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?470579-Newbe-Question-about-Alloy-mixing-calculations&p=5749441&viewfull=1#post5749441

I do plan on following your advice when I cast my first bullets.

I just wanted to be sure my understanding of the concept was correct....so that I did not learn a bad habit. :|
This was just a general question to validate my understanding and keep my brain on course.

Thank you :grin:

[Shiloh]

I would probably have more consistent boolits if I measured better. One thing I did learn,
Is boolits don't need to be as hard as I was making them. Saves me precious linotype.

Shiloh

[Joe_7910]

I like Shiloh’s point very much. Don’t get hung up on hardness. Lyman #2 isn’t often necessary in my experience

[Bigslug]

Welcome Chip!

For the sake of simply learning the casting process, you might consider simply buying a moderate quantity of Lyman #2 and pure lead from Rotometals. The straight #2 casts well and will work for rifle applications in the 2,000fps ballpark. Mixing it 50/50 with pure lead will give you 95/2.5/2.5, which is close enough to wheelweight + 2% tin for government work. Doing the 50/50 dilution to THAT will put you in the zone of jacketed range scrap cores with a slight tin addition and will handle any non-magnum pistol application.

Those alloy combinations will solve A LOT of shooting problems with simple air cooling and you'll learn how to pour a good bullet without having to worry much about mix tinkering or dealing with the concern of "what's in this stuff?". Once you've got that well under control, you can start the serious tweaking and perfect your mad scientist laugh.

[Gobeyond]

I think you got it right but that seems like a lot of tin.

[chipsxj]

Welcome Chip!

For the sake of simply learning the casting process, you might consider simply buying a moderate quantity of Lyman #2 and pure lead from Rotometals. The straight #2 casts well and will work for rifle applications in the 2,000fps ballpark. Mixing it 50/50 with pure lead will give you 95/2.5/2.5, which is close enough to wheelweight + 2% tin for government work. Doing the 50/50 dilution to THAT will put you in the zone of jacketed range scrap cores with a slight tin addition and will handle any non-magnum pistol application.

Those alloy combinations will solve A LOT of shooting problems with simple air cooling and you'll learn how to pour a good bullet without having to worry much about mix tinkering or dealing with the concern of "what's in this stuff?". Once you've got that well under control, you can start the serious tweaking and perfect your mad scientist laugh.

Thanks, I will give that a go.

[ABJ]

Centershot and Bigslug have given good advise. As for my advise, first download a copy of the alloy calculator on this site.
Second, don't get all wraped up in Brinell hardness, as Centershot said in post #2, a "tough and malleable" alloy that will drop a bullet the correct size (fit is king) solves a lot of problems. Different mold makers use different alloys to achieve the as cast diameter they want. Most molds will cast a useable size with 1.5% tin coupled with 3% antimony. Which by the way is a very good soft alloy for handguns. I use this alloy a lot for cowboy action shooting. For a bigger "as cast" move to 2% tin and 4% antimony and that alloy will handle velocity north of 1000 fps in handguns and excellent for gas checked rifle boolits.
There are 100's of different ways to get to the final result and the % I mentioned don't have to be exact, just get close.
Third, if you can find an inexpensive source for pure or almost pure lead, ie scrap sheet lead. Get all you can afford and cast into 1 or 1.5 or 2lb ingots. Then you can play on the calculator with recipes, like mixing pure with lino, or some other type metal. Pure lead with foundry type is an excellent place to start and may be all you need.
Fourth and not really advise just an FYI, I have 3 lee 20 lb pots I keep one with rotometals super hard, one with foundry type and one with pure tin. By pouring wafers of type metal and weighing them I can build any alloy I want with the alloy calculator. But as I said earlier pure lead and foundry type can get most casters where they want to be.
Tony

[Bill M]

Years ago I cast a couple gallons of 158 swc gc for our local range officer, he was always a good guy. The next week after our club shoot, he waved me over, and put a couple of buckets in my truck, 3/4 full of mostly cast bullets he got from the berm. I sorted jacketed, and wadcutters out, and melted the rest down, and shared with my old friend Pete. That was some great bullet metal I commented to Pete, and he agreed, and said it should be, as it was a mix of what everybody thought was the perfect alloy!

[Pilgrim]

I've been using WW + 1% 95-5 solder for everything for many years. I stumbled on 95-5 at a metal recycler at about $6/lb IIRC. I bought a bunch of it and am still using it. Those bookings feed my handgun (.45 ACP, .45 Colt ( handgun + rifle), and .357 magnum), rifle loads have been for all kinds of stuff (.223, .30-30, .358 Win., .375 Win., .35 Rem, & 7x57). The boolit is BHN 14 or 15. Sized for .002 or .003 over groove diameter gives no leading. I use GC's for all rifle loads and heavy .45 Colt loads. .358 Win with .35-200-FN, Hornady GC, VV-135 gives me 2430 fps @ 10' from a 22" barreled BLR. I've killed elk and moose with that rifle and load. Find an alloy that meets your needs, don't change the recipe, and stay a happy camper. BTW - my experience says .002 to .003 over groove works for everything.

[chipsxj]

Thanks everyone for your inputs.
My brinell question was really me gauging if I understood the concept.
I agree with the starting out with basics.
I am in the process of gathering materials and reading/studying up on casting.

I just started reloading and I am still very much learning that. I just wanted to get a head start on casting education/process because I can see that I will be wanting to cast very soon to augment my reloading.

I could start casting tomorrow with what I have.....but I want to study/read up on it a little more.

Thanks again for your input...I REALLY appreciate it.

[jsizemore]

The casting part is it's own hurdle to overcome. There is no substitute for actually casting. If you make a mistake you can always remelt and cast it again. I recast that first alloy 5 times before it started working. Of course I shot a few along the way to find out if it was right or wrong. Sure was fun. And still is.

[BJung]

To me, the difference between a new caster and a experienced one is like comparing the reloader to the handloader. The first takes some basic rules and can make the bullet shoot. Then, with experience, the person wants to make a better bullet and cartridge. I started casting scrap lead and separating the ingots by hardness and casting bullets by BHN. More experienced shooters say BHN does not matter and that the alloy makes the difference. I'm the sort that does not believe something 100% until I can prove it myself. I still think BHN is better for higher chamber pressure loads like. Most recently I have begun testing cast hollow point bullets. The lead used was either FMJ/Jacketed range core lead, Pellet Lead, and .22lr. lead. The first two scratched at a bhn of 8-9. The last I think was 10. Of the first two, the expansion of the hollow points were consistently different even though the bhn was the same.