marlin 1894 barrel twist in .44? Help.

[bones37]

I am considering buying the Marlin in 44 mag/spec. but have been concerned with some reports that I've read here (and other places) on the barrel twist being inadequate, something like a 1-38", does this apply to bullets 240 grains and larger? I only shoot bullets up to 240 grains and nothing larger, will I have a problem stabilizing these weights? Do any of You have first hand experience with this? Thanks.

Bones37

[beagle]

I shot a 1:38 twist in both a Marlin M1894 and in a Marlin 336 .44 Magnum. Neither provided very much accuracy with cast. I rebarrelled to a 1:18 twist and it shot 300 grainers fine but still would not shoot the lighter cast bullets and I fiddled around with it a lot. Hard alloy, big bullets, GC/PB.

Finally, I invested in a Winchester M94 Legacy with a 1:26" twist and it shoots everything....including my 429421HP which is my bullet of choice for my SBHs.

Now, others have reported good accuracy but that's my experiences with it./beagle

[skeet1]

My Marlin 1894 cowboy will shoots the 240, 250 and 270 gr. bullets very well. I wouldn't worry about the twist. My newest bullet is Ranch Dog's TL432-265 that weighs out at 270 gr. cast of WW. This is great bullet and I see no reason to go any heavier it will certainly take care of anything the .44 Mag was intended to shoot.

Skeet1

[mike in co]

i have a marling micro groove and have only shot 280 and 300...both of which shot very well.'

size for the gun, hardness for the pressure/velocity, lube for the length of the bbl....

mike in co

[bones37]

I had a marlin 44 years ago, back when I was young and didn't cast or reload, and I wasn't overly impressed with its accuracy, it was the micro groove type barrel. I do have a the same rifle in 357 with the ballard rifling and couldn't be more pleased with its performance, but I just wanted some opinions on the 44 before laying down the cash. I think I will give a new 44 with the ballard rifling a try, Thanks for the replies.

Bones37

[NHlever]

Like Beagle, I have owned several Marlin .44 mag rifles that I was disappointed in (I believe that all were MG barrels). Accuracy was spotty usually though once in a while I would find a load that worked well. I like the Marlins better than the Winchesters so I really tried. Still, I have a Winchester 94TE that digests everything, and shoots just about all loads reasonably well, and shoots several very well. So far I've shot bullets from the 210 grain Speer GDHP to the Lee 300 grainer. My go to load is the Lyman 429244 over a healthy dose of H110, and it shoots that very well. I wish that the Marlins I've had would shoot better since I really like them. I had the same experience with the .357, and ended up with a Winchester there too, but it is really too heavy for a .357 though it shoots very well indeed!

[Lloyd Smale]

in my experience the micro groved barrels do a tad better with heavy bullets and the ballards with lighter ones.

[Thin Man]

I needed a load for a pre-safety 1894 Marlin with micro-groove barrel. The most accurate and consistent boolit I tried in this rifle was a Ranch Dog 265 weight over a stout charge of H-110. It grouped very well, but the deer didn't care for it at all. I needed only one shot for each deer that was within range. This boolit really shines at or near top pressure.

[Boomer Mikey]

I am considering buying the Marlin in 44 mag/spec. but have been concerned with some reports that I've read here (and other places) on the barrel twist being inadequate, something like a 1-38", does this apply to bullets 240 grains and larger? I only shoot bullets up to 240 grains and nothing larger, will I have a problem stabilizing these weights? Do any of You have first hand experience with this? Thanks.

Bones37

In 44 Magnum the Winchester or PUMA may work better for you with their faster twist rates... I would get a 45 Colt to match your 357 Magnum; no twist rate problems and the Marlin 45 Colt Cowboy is an excellent rifle.

Boomer :Fire:

[EDK]

i have a marling micro groove and have only shot 280 and 300...both of which shot very well.'

size for the gun, hardness for the pressure/velocity, lube for the length of the bbl....

mike in co

Go to lasc.us and look at Glenn Fryxell's article on the 1894 MARLINS in 357-44-45 Colt. He's got some good loads and data..."why re-invent the wheel?" when Glenn has done your homework for you!

I always cast mine hard for the micro-groove rifles I had in the past and they worked real well on feral dogs chasing my calves. Mostly 429244 with the gas check shank removed back then. The rifles get the 265 RANCH DOG or 429244 with gas checks now.

WARNING: After you read Glenn's article, you may decide to get a 45 Colt. It's hard to argue with facts and figures like he shows. BUT I'm already set up with the 44s, so I'll run with what I have.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[JesterGrin_1]

I have the Marlin 1894SS in .44 Mag and found it shot okay with the Lee 310Gr GC with 18.5Gr of W-296 powder and a standard large pistol primer by CCI. These shot 2 in groups at 100 yards.

But I could not leave well enough alone lol. So right now I am trying some Ranch Dog 265GR GC BOOLITS. I will report back if you like when I find out something. :)

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Please do share your findings, I to have a couple of Marlins W/MG bbls, I have been using a 300 gr. boolit, could not get acceptable groups with lighter boolits, i just got my RD 265 mould,
still winter here, so I won't be able to shoot for groups for a while.

[JesterGrin_1]

Ok will do. :) :Fire::castmine:


Please do share your findings, I to have a couple of Marlins W/MG bbls, I have been using a 300 gr. boolit, could not get acceptable groups with lighter boolits, i just got my RD 265 mould,
still winter here, so I won't be able to shoot for groups for a while.

[JesterGrin_1]

Okay Slow Elk this is what I got today. With the Ranch Dog 265GR GC with 21.8Gr of W-296 (I got this as this was as close to 21.5gr as I could get with my Lee pro Disc powder measure on my Lee Classic Cast Turret press lol. If you like I will find out the number that is on it? But I will say it did shoot better with the 21.8Gr than it did when I tried it with 21.5Gr) With the CCI-300 Large Pistol Primer. I am right now checking the OAL as I type this lol and it is a might short but shot well so I will leave it be lol. The AOL is 1.555. :)

The Group I got at 100 Yards Measured center to center is .800 so a bit over 3/4 in group. Or outside to outside is 1.100 lol. So I think it did okay. :Fire:


Please do share your findings, I to have a couple of Marlins W/MG bbls, I have been using a 300 gr. boolit, could not get acceptable groups with lighter boolits, i just got my RD 265 mould,
still winter here, so I won't be able to shoot for groups for a while.

[chaos]

I shoot a couple of home cast bullets out of my ballard rifled gun. One weighs 255 grains and the other is 253. I never put either of these rounds on paper. I do know that they are Minute of Hog's Head out to about 75 yards. Going to temporarily scope her this coming weekend and see what she will do.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Hullo JesterGrin, WOW!!! That is great. I was hoping that the RD would shoot in these rifles and it looks to be so. 21.8 gr of 296 , that should be a good to go load. I hope I get something even close to that I will be a happy man. Thanks again , I'm sure you saved me a lot of powder, and time fiddling looking for the sweet spot.

:drinks:

[gwilliams2]

Quick question for those of you around San Antonio... Where the heck do you find a good supply of lead?

[Frank]

JesterGrin_1 wrote:

The Group I got at 100 Yards Measured center to center is .800 so a bit over 3/4 in group. Or outside to outside is 1.100 lol. So I think it did okay.


One keyboard group doesn't mean anything. You need to show your picture of 6 targets in a row, 5 shots per target at 100 yards. That's fair, right? Keyboard solves all bad shooting. Maybe when you shoot 30 rounds, you'll find 10 shots on all your paper.

[dgslyr]

I have an 1894 marlin I shoot silhouttes with.9 grs. of unique with 200,240,or 255 gr. cast or jacketed for lever action pistol cartridge,out to 100 yards.24 grs. of 296 with 240's for lever action center fire out to 200 yards.I could shoot 40x40 off the bench with either.Unfortunately silhouette is shot off hand.I've never put this carbine on paper other than the first 100 rounds at an indoor range at 15 yards.I have lyman receiver sights,no scope.It will feed semi wadcutters with an OAL of 1.710 inches if you seat them with a round nose seating screw and take the sharpe edge off the nose slightly. When I hunt with it I use 300gr.bullets I shoot enough to get the elevation right then 3 to make sure.I can cover them with the bottom of a coke can at 100 yards.In my experiance,this marlin,made last year and the 1971 model I used to have will stabilize about any weight bullet I want to shoot.The 1 in 38 twist works for me.
s.

[44man]

I have always said the Marlin needs a light boolit however I bought it for my grandson for deer. It shoots good at 50 and is still good for deer to 75 but groups at 100 can't be had with my heavy hunting boolits.
I hate light bullets even in my revolvers.
The RD 265 is a good boolit but it still gives me trouble from the Marlin. A good group one day and a scatter gun the next.
This boolit will do a little over an inch at 100 from my Ruger.
I hate to buy J word bullets too.
The Marlin is just not easy to work with and if something shoots, that is all that it will shoot.

[StarMetal]

Amazing the differences we get with the Marlin Cowboy in 45 Colt caliber. I too have one and it has the slow twist and shoots the 255 cast just wonderful at 100 yards. I believe mine would even shoot better with better sights. That bead on the Marbles front blade is too big for shooting smaller groups at 100 yards. Even if the rifle wore a receiver sight. That will probably be getting changed.

Joe

[44man]

Amazing the differences we get with the Marlin Cowboy in 45 Colt caliber. I too have one and it has the slow twist and shoots the 255 cast just wonderful at 100 yards. I believe mine would even shoot better with better sights. That bead on the Marbles front blade is too big for shooting smaller groups at 100 yards. Even if the rifle wore a receiver sight. That will probably be getting changed.

Joe
Now you know the .45 Colt has a 1 in 16" twist don't you? About .021" larger boolit at about the same weight as a .44 boolit, yet the .44's twist is way more then doubled????
Since a 255 gr .45 boolit is SHORTER then a .44 of the same weight, Why did they go with a faster twist? According to Marlins thinking the .45 should be 1 in 40"! :mrgreen:
They out and out screwed the pooch with the .44. For the few that say it shoots "good" there are thousands that complain.
I have shot 5 shots touching at 50 yd's with one boolit I have but it would be the worst hunting boolit ever, the meplat is only 1/16". Yet this same boolit will not stay on paper at 100 with any load.
This rifle is the biggest waste of powder and lead I have ever seen.

If everyone would send Marlin a letter complaining like I did, maybe something would be done. We should all demand a new faster twist barrel even if the gun is out of warranty.
Ask why the Ballard rifling is the same depth as the micro groove!
Why doesn't Marlin have a lifetime warranty? :confused:
Why did they change the .444 to 1 in 20"?

[Frank]

I can cover them with the bottom of a coke can at 100 yards.The 1 in 38 twist works for me.



Amazing the differences we get with the Marlin Cowboy in 45 Colt caliber. I too have one and it has the slow twist and shoots the 255 cast just wonderful at 100 yards.

That's why I ask to see pictures of targets at 100 yards.


This rifle is the biggest waste of powder and lead I have ever seen.


You worked on your Marlin for 2 years. It's well documented on this board in the archives. Check it out, guys. It's good reading. :coffee:

[Four Fingers of Death]

Most of us seem to have missed the point, supplying all sorts of loads for heavy boolits. This gentleman said he only used up to 240Gn boolits.

Aren't the current 444Marlins a 1 in 20" twist? That might be the ticket with reduced loads. I have a 44Mag Marlin, but have never fired a shot out of it, bought it in a rush of blood when I was having trouble with other cowboy guns, got it home and put it in the safe as I think it is an ugly rifle (We're all different, I have five Marlins, but was not real keen on the looks of the 1894). I got it out recently and decided that I will try it in the near future.

All of my 44 experience is with the steenking pistolas and I use two loads there,
'Elmers' which is 245Gn SWC with 22Gns of 2400 (I believe this is too much with the new 2400, I still have some of the old stuff in use, should hit the new stuff in a few months, I'll probablky have to trim them back a grain or two) and the Winchester recommended load, which is a tad hotter than DGSLYR's load of 24Gns of 296 at 25gns. Get a Winchester freebee flyer, real good loads. I'm hoping these will work with the RNFPs I have in my ugly gun.

[JesterGrin_1]

Frank go out and do some load work yourself for your .44 Marlin and show targets. That would be great to see. :)

[Frank]

OK, here's a 10-shot group at 100 yards. Look at the fliers. This was with jacketed 240 grn.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=679

This is as good as it's ever going to get with the 1/38 twist. The 300 grn Beartooth .432 was all over the place. At 50 yards, both loads are cloverleaf.
I blame the 1/38 twist.

So are you going to post it now? :bigsmyl2:

[JesterGrin_1]

I think all Marlins Cloverleaf. Sorry I could not find my .44 Mag Targets but I will make more lol.

These are from my 45-70 Marlin 1895GS and as I said it will also cloverleaf.
This is with the Ranch Dog 350Gr GC with 52.OGr of H-322 ,Rem Case, Fed 210 Primer. bottom two are sighters and top three were group just before going hunting this year.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0005.jpg
This is with the Hornady 350Gr Same gun and also at 100 Yards.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Marlin45-70GS.jpg

I did find that the Lee 310Gr GC would do 2in groups well sized .432 and will fire some of those along with the Ranch Dog 265Gr GC ones as well. I just decided not to go with the Lee 310Gr due to the range I shoot at and the drop. So I went onto the Ranch Dog 265Gr. But I may also try some Hornady 240Gr HP/XTP with 24Gr of W-296 to see if it can hit a barn lol.

[Four Fingers of Death]

My friend Mr Long Colt is an aussie cowboy action shooter and he supports his income by casting boolits. He is getting me some 185Gn boolits as I'm a bit flat out at the moment. With the slow twist, these might be a good hunting boolit. Things that this weight boolit won't stop shouldn't be hunted with a 44mag anyway I suppose. I will be mostly clanging steel at cowboy matches, but they'd be good for cleaning up dingos and feral dawgs I suppose.

Four Fingers.

[JesterGrin_1]

My friend Mr Long Colt is an aussie cowboy action shooter and he supports his income by casting boolits. He is getting me some 185Gn boolits as I'm a bit flat out at the moment. With the slow twist, these might be a good hunting boolit. Things that this weight boolit won't stop shouldn't be hunted with a 44mag anyway I suppose. I will be mostly clanging steel at cowboy matches, but they'd be good for cleaning up dingos and feral dawgs I suppose.

Four Fingers.

A 185Gr BOOLIT??????? what is that a double sided Wadcutter ?

[EDK]

There was a Hensley & Gibbs #231 mould on eBay for 185 grain semi wadcutters in 44 caliber....8 cavity!....went for $153 tonight.

My 357 MARLIN feeds a full wadcutter 358432; I'm trying BLAMMERS 250 grain group buy (clone of 429352) mould without much success in my 44 Cowboy.



:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[JesterGrin_1]

FRANK Just for you lol And SLOW ELK.

Sorry I gave up on the RD265Gr due to function problems with my Marlin 1894SS in .44 Mag. And concentrated on the LEE 310Gr LEEmented to .4325 with an AOL of 1.625 / W-296 with 21.OGr and again with a Standard CCI LPP. 100 Yards shot TODAY. Dang it was HOT. No Matter how hard I do try I do not feel I will get the rifle to shoot better than this with a good blunt hunting BOOLIT. I do have some 300GR TC boolits that will shoot a bit better but not by much but they have a small frontal area. And I like BLUNT lol. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0051.jpg

[NHlever]

I shot a 1:38 twist in both a Marlin M1894 and in a Marlin 336 .44 Magnum. Neither provided very much accuracy with cast. I rebarrelled to a 1:18 twist and it shot 300 grainers fine but still would not shoot the lighter cast bullets and I fiddled around with it a lot. Hard alloy, big bullets, GC/PB.

Finally, I invested in a Winchester M94 Legacy with a 1:26" twist and it shoots everything....including my 429421HP which is my bullet of choice for my SBHs.

Now, others have reported good accuracy but that's my experiences with it./beagle

My experience mirrors that of Beagle except that I never rebarreled a Marlin. I did own a few because I really like the older, lighter ones. I have had two Winchester 94 AE's in .44 mag, and still have my Trail's End. Both fed, and shot everything reasonably well, and quite well with selected loads. I've shot the Speer 210 GD at over 2000 fps with good accuracy as well as the Speer 270 GD sp's. I don't have molds for the 300 grainer, but have played with them a bit. My go to loads are the Lyman 429421, and the Lyman 429244 GC. The latter I load over heavy charges of H-110 for good accuracy, and potent hunting loads. I load the Lyman 429421, and RCBS 44-245 over lighter charges of faster burners like Unique mostly because I use those loads in my handguns too.

The Marlins did shoot pretty well with very selective loads, but were never as consistant. I've also played with a SS Ruger 77/44 with the 20 inch twist. (actually, I had something to do with that twist being selected for use in that rifle, and it pleases me. I was not as successful in trying to get them to design the magazine to accept longer than SAMMI length rounds. :sad: ) I'm pretty sorry that I let both the 77/44, and Winchester 94 Pack Rifle go....... Dumb, Dumb! The 77/44 was barely over 6 Lbs. scoped with a weaver 1x-3x, and was a dandy wet/ snowy weather gun. Hunt it all day, blow it out with an air hose at home, and be ready to go the next day pretty much.......... not much inside them to get messed up. I guess they are making them again, but don't know if they are available yet.

[Frank]

JesternGrin says
FRANK Just for you lol And SLOW ELK.


Nice pics, by the way. That's the way I like to see people doing it. Showing the results. Your group looks as good as it probably can get with the 1/32 twist, like we discussed. Your results mirror mine. Maybe a mag primer might tighten it dramatically, but who knows. Look how easy your Marlin 1/20 twist did the job.

Here's my struggling 1/32 twist rifle at only 50 yrds with the Ranch Dog 265. You are right. It is a long boolit. The first round jammed on mine, but if cycled carefully it works. I don't know what more to do with this rifle. Here's the group with 22.0 grns 296. And again, at only 50 yds.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=1093

[JesterGrin_1]

To me the RD 265 is a bit short at an AOL of 1.555. And my Marlin will work slick with the LEE 310Gr with an AOL of 1.625.

As for the Mag Primer I have found them to open the group not make them smaller. It might work if you are in a very cold area. Say below freezing lol. But I am in San Antonio TEXAS or the Deep South area where if it gets below 32 F maybe only a couple of times a year or a blue moon lol.

My next round to try is the 44/444 Group buy mold in a Hollow Point with an AOL of 1.650 of which will still feed fine in my Marlin as long as I do not try and speed shift it lol.:)

On another note I have been using W-296 only. And will try H-110 this next time for giggles. :)

[Frank]

Bullet weight, twist and velocity. To make the groups tighten, it needs a lighter bullet for the slow twist and make it go faster. A faster powder will lower the velocity at peak pressure. So our hands are tied with the slow twist. We can like these rifles, they may handle nice and be fun, but we're stuck with pie plate at best. Right?

[JesterGrin_1]

Well a 2 inch or a little better group at 100 yards is a far cry from a pie plate lol. But I will keep playing with things with the Marlin as that is the fun of it for me. My Marlin 1894 in .357 was easy to make shoot and so was my Marlin 1895 in 45-70 and so unless I need them they collect dust lol. But I have a reason to play with the .44 :)

[Frank]

I agree. It's fun when you make something work. Then you're more than a powder stuffer. Why do people use progressive presses? Hey, for one thing, try trickling charges. Try a mag primer. Vary the crimp. I'm not even sold on the speed thing. 10 grns of Unique. Now THAT would be interesting if it worked.

[Airborne Falcon]

Ranch Dog's 300 works well in my 1894P.

I just don't get all the Marlin 1894 hating (44 Mag) in this thread. Mine is a tack drive with just about everything I feed it including factory Speer GDHP but definitely up-to my heavier Ranch Dog fair.

[Char-Gar]

I have a good Marlin 44 Magnum, but have not done much load development with it as I hit a combination early on that gives great accuracy in the rifle and my Ruger OM SBH.

I didn't want to shoot the full snort stuff, so I settled on 10/Unique. With the heavier 250-250 grain GC bullets accuracy was 4" at 50 yards. When I switched to a lighted 225 GC bullet groups tightened to 1" at 50 yards. The lighter load is what I shoot.

These are light easy shooting loads, but plenty for deer and lesser stuff if that is your game. A 225 grain 44 caliber bullet going 1,100 to 1,200 fps will put a hurting on what it hits.

What I make of this, is the longer/heavier bullets need more velocity to stablize them in the slow Marlin barrel twist. Boost the velocity to full magnum velocity and they shoot quite well.

My bullets are sized .432 and cast from ACWW.

[longbow]

I have a 25+ year old Marlin 1894 with microgroove barrel and 1:38" twist. I have never had any sort of accuracy past 50 yards with boolits heavier than about 270 gr. Keep the weight (length) down to 270 grs. or less and it does fine.

Mine also did not like SWC's and would not feed Lyman 429421's reliably, often jamming with them even when seated to the front driving band. Another issue was that they jammed on the shoulder as they entered the chamber.

I have modified the cartridge stop to allow longer OAL and worked on the carrier to lower the round as it heads for the chamber. Now it feeds SWC's well and with a good boolit fit to barrel I am getting good accuracy with the H&G #503 at about 250 grs.

I think you will be fine with 240 gr. and lighter but I would recommend RN or RNFP. Some guns feed SWC's okay and some don't.

Also, apparently many Marlins have large groove diameter so a fat boolit may be required. Mine is 0.4315" groove so I load no less than 0.432" and generally 0.433"/0.434" boolits. This works well for me.

Longbow

[bones37]

After posting this thread several years ago, I recently scored a mint pre-safety, micro groove 1894 in 44 magnum after searching high and low for one that suited me. It is a 1982 vintage rifle, with a s/n range 18,xxx,xxx. For what it is worth, the rifle appears to be a safe queen, with no scratches, no wear, etc.

I shot the rifle with some 200 grain Speer Gold Dots, loaded with 2400 in 44 special cases, and was extremely suprised by the accuracy. Nevertheless, I am going to continue to experiment and develop loads until I find something that I like. I have not had the chance yet to slug the bore, but I did 'beagle' my RCBS 200 CM mold which spit out 432" diameter boolits. I pan lubed these, loaded and shot them, and so far no signs of leading, so I am gonna take this as a good starting point for the size of boolits that I need.

Had it not been for the wealth of information here, I would have not known that the bores on 'most' 44 mag rifles are oversized compared to those in handguns. I want to thank those who have shared their experiences and information, as it has been very valuable to me.

[Four Fingers of Death]

A 185Gr BOOLIT??????? what is that a double sided Wadcutter ?

Nope! Just a short a$$ed RNFP. Here is a picture of the same boolit with a polymer coat.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Reloading%20and%20Casting/20120217_202915.jpg

They worked ok out to 50 yards in 44Sppecial brass. Rang a dinner plate sized target every time as fast as I could shoot. Popped a rock which was about as big as Arnie Swarchenneger's fist at about 75 yards.

I bought them because they were all my mate had in stock at the time. Most of his cuctom are cowboy shooters and they like the light coated bullets.

I have a heap of 44 moulds including a Vintage Lee HP mould (214Gns) and about 5000 Gator gaschecks. Need to get casting

This one came from a deceased estate, the old guy loved big bores and I bought a few of his moulds! Hopefully he bumped into Ol' Elmer when he went to the big hunting paddock in the sky.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Reloading%20and%20Casting/LeeHollowpointMoulds5.jpg

That'd be one nasty boolit made with WW and used on medium game. Hopefully it will feed in my Marlin or Rossi.

[fatelk]

I'm going to have to study up on this thread a little. I have an old 1894 in .44 mag, that I've never been able to get any kind of accuracy with, cast or jacketed. I just dug it out of the safe today to try some 265gr SWC bullets through it, got a nice 3" group at 25 yards.:(

The barrel slugs at .4298", and size my bullets at .4305".

[longbow]

Mine wouldn't group Lyman 429421's well at any range, nor did it feed them well. I did some work on it to solve the feeding issues, fattened up the boolits, lapped the barrel and now it feeds and shoots well the H&G #503 (0.434" diameter), 434640 (0.434" diameter) and my Accurate 43-165B (0.433" diameter).

What looked like buckshot groups at 50 yards are now 1 1/2" to 2" groups which I am sure the gun can do better than. A vast improvement in any case.

I hadn't realized this was a 3 year old thread until I reread it! At least it was helpful to the OP in the end.

Enjoy the gun, you should have lots of fun with it.

Longbow

[Slinger]

I've got a 1981 model Marlin 44 with the MG barrel. IT'll shoot factory 240 grain Federals ok. and 23.0 grains of H-110 with a 240 gr. Speer Jkt. soft point really well....like 1-5/8" for 5 shots @ 85 yds. Have been recently working with a Saeco 240 gr. TC mold. Nice bullet. Using 7.0 of 231 and it'll shoot 1" to 1-3/4" groups at 50 yards or so. Nice light load to plink with, but I'm having a bit of problem with some leading just ahead of the chamber with this load. I think it's the lube. Bore slugged @ .430", so I'm shooting as cast at .431"- .4315", #2 alloy. The gun also likes the 265 grain Hornady with H-110. Doesn't like 200gr. Hornady or 210 gr. Sierras. Also doesn't like 240 gr. cast with hotter loads. It won't shoot loads well that are around 1300 fps or more.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

my 1894 44 mag made in 1973 shoots great 270gr castboolit sized to .432 20.5gr of H110
this was my first load that i tried at 50 yrds i hit a golf ball im ok with that with open sights

[Four Fingers of Death]

"kids that hunt and fish dont mug old ladies"

Ain't that a fact, LuckyDawg!' Well said.

[JesterGrin_1]

"kids that hunt and fish dont mug old ladies"

Ain't that a fact, LuckyDawg!' Well said.

Unless they steal there Stringer of Fish or just cut up game lol. Then there would be a slight problem lol. :bigsmyl2:

[Rrusse11]

Gents,
Be aware, with just a quick scan of this thread, that the Marlin 1894 in 44Mag has a loooong throat. If you load a COAL to your revolver lengths, it rattles around before it hits the bore. The action will take ez 1.680", and with a bit of work on the cartridge lifter, you'll get 1.730". Try some different lengths to see what yours will feed, and then shoot the longest cartridge you can.
You might be surprised.
Cheers,
R*2

[Four Fingers of Death]

With what I've seen and heard of the 44Mag 1894, if you want to do some long distance critter or target whomping the easiest way to get it together would be to rebarrel to a faster twist or trade it in on a 45Colt with the 1 in 16" twist.

Am I on the right track here? I have a 44Mag 1894, but haven't really tried any long(ish) range stuff because I have a 444 with a 1 in 20" Bbl, so I just default to that.

It is a pity because the 44Mag is an easy, bombproof cartridge case to load.

[herbert buckland]

Fast twist can be a big problem too. I have a 56-50 Spencer rifle with a 1 in 20 twist rate ,if you use a bullet shorter than .975 you can not hit a barn at 100yds,with the .975 long bullet it is very acurate,you will have the same problem with slow twists,with a 1 in 38 twist rate the shotest bullet you can use will most likly be the most acurate,this is going of years of playing around with 1 in 36 twist rate in my Winchester 44-40s ,the short 200gr bullets have always preformed the best.1 in 38 does seem slow for a 44 magnum,I woud think for loger faster bullets a1 in 28 twist would be more like it

[Four Fingers of Death]

Fast twist can be a big problem too. I have a 56-50 Spencer rifle with a 1 in 20 twist rate ,if you use a bullet shorter than .975 you can not hit a barn at 100yds,with the .975 long bullet it is very acurate,you will have the same problem with slow twists,with a 1 in 38 twist rate the shotest bullet you can use will most likly be the most acurate,this is going of years of playing around with 1 in 36 twist rate in my Winchester 44-40s ,the short 200gr bullets have always preformed the best.1 in 38 does seem slow for a 44 magnum,I woud think for loger faster bullets a1 in 28 twist would be more like it

I remember an old English man who lived near us when I was a boy. He had two saying that I remember well, his favourit was "you get ought for nowt!" There is always a pay off. I am experiencing similar sort of problems with my Tikka T3 in 223. It has a 1 in 8" twist. I bought it off a friend to bale him out of trouble, but I have grown to like the rifle. He gave me a lot od reloads for it, all heavy jacketed target bullets, which I'm not much interested in. The easiest way to get rid of them was to get a bit of range time up. Most performed pretty well. The last day at the range with it and the first few groups wher eI wasn't cleaning every five rounds as the barrel was finally run in, were some 69Gn (I think) SAKO relaods and a box of American Eagle 55Gn Factory loads. The heavy SAKOs put in a great group, but after cleaning for the different ammo. the Federal turned in a 2 3/4" group. I would have accepted one flyer due to the clean barrel, but they were all well away from the point of aim and well spread. It obviously doesn't like light bullets. My mate was sitting next to me, I picked up the 5 empties, put them into the 20 round box and gave them to him. He thought it was Christmas, lol.

I noticed the Winchester Law Enforcement Ranger ammo with the 60Gn Nosler Partition bullet is pretty well priced (about the same price as just buying the Nosler bullets. They look like they might be the answer, but I will be only buying one packet first to see if they work. Looks like my 788 in 222 is about to get dusted off for action again. I have about 1500x55Gn bullets, 1000x46Gn Hornet bullets and a recent custom mould in 22! I don't think the Tikka with the 1 in 8" twist wil be happy with any of them.

The old English guy had another saying. He used to let me go with him while he was scrounging old bottle, lead, papers, etc and he used to buy me an ice cream or a drink (soda )or give me a 2 shilling coin (if it was a really good day) for helping him (2 shillings was enough to get into the pictures in the best seats and buy an ice cream as well). I remember complaining how heavy the crates of bottles we were collecting were, his reply was. "Michael, if it were easy there'd be nowt left for the likes of us." Wise words.

[Slinger]

With what I've seen and heard of the 44Mag 1894, if you want to do some long distance critter or target whomping the easiest way to get it together would be to rebarrel to a faster twist or trade it in on a 45Colt with the 1 in 16" twist.

Am I on the right track here? I have a 44Mag 1894, but haven't really tried any long(ish) range stuff because I have a 444 with a 1 in 20" Bbl, so I just default to that.

It is a pity because the 44Mag is an easy, bombproof cartridge case to load.

Read Glenn Fryxwell's article on the Marlin 1894. It will clear up alot of misconceptions about the MicroGroove barrel & rate of twist. Goto www.lasc.us

[Airborne Falcon]

Interesting, after all this time this thread still puts-out.

[Rrusse11]

Read Glenn Fryxwell's article on the Marlin 1894. It will clear up alot of misconceptions about the MicroGroove barrel & rate of twist. Goto www.lasc.us (http://www.lasc.us)

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellMarlin-MicroGroove.htm

Gents,
Please note his comments on loooong oversize throats. In Brophy's book, p218, there is mention that in 1973 a new carrier design allowed the use of cartridges up to 1.710. As I said, load 'em long, and slug your barrel, the factory spec of .431 means cast at .432.

Velocity/weight also comes into play. Slow heavy boolits will not stabilise well, crank up the hardness, you'll need a GC as Fryxell points out, and my slow twist .444 starts to stabilise a 310 grainer at ~1600 fps.

So, plain base at low velocity, undersize, short of the rifling, don't work. And commonly neither will jacketed. Hence their
undeserved reputation of "won't shoot".

See my thread on the 336CB in 38-55. Long brass with the boolit just engraving into the rifling means no loose bits of gas floating around as it all takes off.

For even more technical stuff, take a look at MikeBellm's notes on the 357Max, and what he does when he chambers a throat.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=120

He's big on concentricity to the bore, and minimal throats for accuracy, no freebore, he just cuts the rifling out.

Gone on long enuff, {;o).

Cheers all,
R*2