22LR off hand shooting tips

[brokeasajoke]

My son is starting the 4-H shooting team in our county. We have mostly shot off bi-pods at home. Does any one have a training tip or help. He shoots standing, kneeling, setting, and prone. While some of the others have nicer stuff, we are going to use a Marlin glenfield and a Marlin 39a possibly. 6x scope is the max allowed. Looking at the others skill I think he can compete at 25yds with these rifles. Is there a book that may be of use to him as reading is his best method to learn. Thanks.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

The NRA publishes some booklets on "how to" shooting.

DG

[dverna]

There is a book by Gary Anderson for coaching young shooters. Anderson shot competitively and is no slouch. I think you can get it from the CMP.

[Nobade]

I got a lot from David Tubb's books regarding offhand technique.

Get a set of rimfire silhouette swingers and practice with those at the correct range. Hitting those more than 80% of the time is a worthy goal and will put him right among the best he is likely to encounter.

[brokeasajoke]

What's funny is we pulled up in my old '88 diesel Ford pulling one of my mowers and got mistaken for the mowing guy. "Hey we've been waiting on you." I'm like "why I thought I was early". So the teens start pouring in with the teenagers in nice rides (Tacomas, 4runners, new civics amongst others) and hop out in nice boots, trendy jeans and guns with carbon fiber barrels, even the girls. Now there is nothing wrong with that and I wish I could afford to buy my kiddos fancy cars and rifles. Im surely not wearing my nice boots and jeans to walk through a marsh mud hole to get across the range. It all seemed kinda cliquish. I'm not even getting into the skeet group. Anyway I think it may come down to the skill and not the weapon anyway after watching them shoot. On girl seemed to have good technique but honestly what do I know.

[steve urquell]

What's funny is we pulled up in my old '88 diesel Ford pulling one of my mowers and got mistaken for the mowing guy. "Hey we've been waiting on you." I'm like "why I thought I was early". So the teens start pouring in with the teenagers in nice rides (Tacomas, 4runners, new civics amongst others) and hop out in nice boots, trendy jeans and guns with carbon fiber barrels, even the girls. Now there is nothing wrong with that and I wish I could afford to buy my kiddos fancy cars and rifles. Im surely not wearing my nice boots and jeans to walk through a marsh mud hole to get across the range. It all seemed kinda cliquish. I'm not even getting into the skeet group. Anyway I think it may come down to the skill and not the weapon anyway after watching them shoot. On girl seemed to have good technique but honestly what do I know.

Practice, practice, practice!

I'm not a pro but have taught many people to shoot. Most inaccuracies in the shooters I've taught are caused by flinching or yanking the trigger. I have had good luck in improving their accuracy by coaching them to forget the trigger and focus on keeping the sight locked on the target while creeping up on the trigger. Trying to make them unaware of the trigger at all only focusing on the sights and target. Squeezing the trigger as an afterthought with the goal of the shot surprising them as it goes off.

I'd get him some snap caps so he can practice this at home.

[Moleman-]

When my son was young he shot in one of the 4H matches in the open sight catagory with a stock Savage cub and won first place in open sights. Most of the other kids were using scopes.

[Bazoo]

Shooting offhand takes practice. A pellet rifle will directly translate to offhand or field positions with a 22 Rifle. Unless of course, you can shoot your 22's as often as desired. My advice is to shoot several times a day, every single day. I didn't really get good until I shot daily for several years.

[country gent]

Practice have him learn to call his shots trigger squeeze and follow thru.
Practice, even dry fire will help with positions. Learn to get a position that is Natural point of aim. the rifle just hangs on the x ring with little to no muscle needed.
Calling shots, Knowing where the sights were when the shot breaks makes him much easier to coach, and builds confidence when its where he thinks it should be.
Trigger squeeze is important in breaking a good shot.
Follow thru a 22 rimfire bullet is in the barrel a long time

[HWooldridge]

My great uncles taught me to shoot offhand. Both were skilled target shots in Schuetzen style competitions. They always said no live person can hold perfectly still so you have to intentionally move in a controlled manner. For them, that meant making small circles with the barrel while aiming (this was with iron sights). They shot while the front sight was coming up to meet the target; if the view was wrong then make another circle until it was right, then trip the trigger. As mentioned, practice makes perfect - they generally shot 100 rounds every Sunday during those months when matches were held. The real match just became another practice session.

[BadgerShooter]

The best book that I used was "Ways of the Rifle" published by MEC in Germany. It breaks down each position of a number of different successful Olympic Smallbore and Air Rifle shooters of
all different body types and sizes. This is not a one size fits all answer. One of my major take aways from this for my own shooting and coaching was the "Inner" and "Outer" position.

Aperture sights are distinctly easier to shoot with on round targets from Offhand than scopes.

After playing these games for nearly 50 years, by far the most important factor is how you run the grey lump between your ears. Lanny Bashams books and videos on Mental Management for rifle shooting is probably the biggest game changer for a young shooter (or any shooter for that matter) that you can be exposed to. Nearly any serious high-level competitor in nearly any discipline will tell you that mental management is 90% of their game. The gear and technique are important but minor in comparison.

[jsizemore]

Here's a little about offhand rifle shooting:

https://www.ssusa.org/content/silhouette-rifle-position-fundamentals-everything-you-need-to-know/

[FLINTNFIRE]

Where are you located ?

As to the distance and firearm your son is using it should be more then good enough , I had a marlin glenfield and it would drive tacks every shot , I have a pair of target 22 bolt actions one a Anschutz and one a Remington , they are sitting unfired for years now and those carbon fiber are no advantage in what they are shooting .

Do not let the cliques of the see what I have and what daddy bought me sour it , but it sounds as if that does not bother you , good on you for taking the son to shoot .

[Mk42gunner]

For any position not just offhand, bone (skeletal) support is normally more stable than muscle support. Sometimes that is not easy to do and the shooter will have to get used to being in somewhat cramped positions.

If at all possible bring the sights/ scope to the shooters eye position, not the head to the rifle. Sounds goofy, but it works.

Robert

[country gent]

Heres another thing in position shooting a good sling or cuff can really steady up the position, as can a shooting glove.

One of the cotton canvas military slings set right with the upper arm thru the loop and wrapped over the hand will make sitting kneeling and prone much solider. But the rifle used needs to be heavy enough to with stand this sling tension also.

A bone supported position off hand and learning to relax down into it. with the off hands elbow down into the hip hand rest=tin under the rifle in a u not really holding its a support is all and the buttstock highj in the shoulder canted over to the eye. Keep the ears as level as he can this makes for balance. feet about shoulder width apart adjust feet for the natural point of aim once there dont move feet. A stool ( camp stools work goo to carry gear and rest the rifle between shots.

Over holding is a problem offhand. once fatiuge sets in dont force it rest the rifle on the stool and start over.

[Randy Bohannon]

Do a Appleseed event, not a better organization to teach a youngster proper technique bar none.
https://appleseedinfo.org/

[brokeasajoke]

where are you located ?

As to the distance and firearm your son is using it should be more then good enough , i had a marlin glenfield and it would drive tacks every shot , i have a pair of target 22 bolt actions one a anschutz and one a remington , they are sitting unfired for years now and those carbon fiber are no advantage in what they are shooting .

Do not let the cliques of the see what i have and what daddy bought me sour it , but it sounds as if that does not bother you , good on you for taking the son to shoot .

wnc

[country gent]

Above all this is also to be fun dont push him to hard that the fun aspect is lost. As long as the next match is as good as or better than the last hes doing great.

[brokeasajoke]

Good stuff. Thanks all.

[BadgerShooter]

There are no super secret techniques - Only excellently executed fundamentals.

[Gtek]

All of these positions can be practiced with a clear weapon. Just correctly placing one self in these positions repetitively, holding weapon, maintaining sight picture on target and squeezing a dead trigger will establish the muscle memory and build his confidence. Teach him well, smoke the posers!

[JimB..]

People buy expensive equipment to show off, but also to buy confidence. That’s fine unless they don’t practice, or don’t practice effectively, and then they lose confidence and interest. You’re seeing it in shooting, but that’s nothing compared to the guys that golf.

Make time to practice, spend money on ammo.

If he becomes concerned that his equipment is limiting his performance, shoot the gun from a rest and see how it performs.

[BadgerShooter]

Expensive equipment gets to be necessary when you are shooting with the best shooters with the best equipment. Its tough to beat a top shooter shooting top equipment. That being said, if you are not going to put in lots of purposeful practice, no amount of fancy equipment is going to help. Having your juniors getting clobbered shooting substandard equipment is not good for morale either.

[uscra112]

The old master.....Harry Pope:

https://www.issa-schuetzen.org/off-hand-rifle-shooting.html

[15meter]

Already been said, but practice is the key.

May want to look at CMP, they sell refurbished target Daisy air rifles for not much more than a hundred dollars, peep sights included. And they used to sell top quality practice pellets for cheap money.

Probably talking 5000 practice shots for way less than $200.

Practice makes perfect.

https://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/DaisyUsed_w.jpg

[brokeasajoke]

Already been said, but practice is the key.

May want to look at CMP, they sell refurbished target Daisy air rifles for not much more than a hundred dollars, peep sights included. And they used to sell top quality practice pellets for cheap money.

Probably talking 5000 practice shots for way less than $200.

Practice makes perfect.

https://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/DaisyUsed_w.jpg

Wonder how he/we can become cmp members?

[Rapier]

The BSA Shooting Merit Badge hand book is written for new shooters. A good book for rifle shooters is the Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle by Ned Roberts, it includes sections by Pope.

To start the teaching or learning process you need a rifle and ammo combination that actually shoots well enough to teach with, so the student never becomes discouraged because they think an equipment inaccuracy or failures is all on them and not the gun or the ammo.

Improvement is a great incentive to improve. So always end a lesson with some improvement, if you can.

Sounds like the rifles you mentioned do not have target sights, a partridge front and a receiver sight rear, that is both windage and elevation adjustable and repeatable. Kentucky windage is OK for cans, not so much for a bullseye target shooting. You really need to adjust sights in target shooting, and never adjust the hold. Adjusting the hold is a WAG, dopeing the light and wind, then adjusting your sights accordingly is a major learned process, and a match winner, especially in small bore competition. Small bore is very difficult to master as you have little control of the ammunition, most production guns are not even remotely made for target shooting, and too boot, the groups are measured with a micrometer not a ruler, when shot by an ammo and gun combination not capable, can be very frustrating.

[15meter]

Wonder how he/we can become cmp members?

Don't think you need membership to order Airguns/pellets.

I believe being in 4-H is enough to allow you to order rifles.

To order rifles and or ammunition, you need "proven Marksmanship ability" and a club affiliation of some kind. If you are exmilitary, your DD-214 covers for the Marksmanship portion. Club affiliation can be a local gun club that is affiliated with the CMP. Or the Garand collectors association. I think VFW or American Legion may also qualify.

Proven Marksmanship ability is the printed results of a rifle match or print off the form from the website and have a range officer sign off that you can handle a rifle safely.

It's all detailed on the CMP website.

Good luck.

[15meter]

And it is too much fun to beat the high buck guns with a basic rifle.

We used to shoot an airgun league at one of my clubs, I won it several years in a row with a 60 year old Benjamin 317 air rifle. I was shooting against Fienwerkbau(sp?) and Anshutz(sp?) rifles.

Difference was I shot 25-50 rounds each day in my shed, they usually only shot on league shoot day.(And the eyes were better then)

They got better and I had to step up to an RWS 54 to keep beating them.

It was still a rifle that cost 25% what theirs cost.

It was too much fun.

Practice, practice, practice!

[15meter]

And consider tuning up the triggers, I still have my Glenfield Model 25, and 20,000+ rounds has not improved the trigger one bit.

The Marlin probably has a better trigger to start with.

Consistent, light trigger pull is one of the keys to accurate rifle shooting.

Do a search for "Glenfield Model 25 trigger upgrade"

You'll find a number of options from $100+ replacement triggers to massage your own instructions.

Good luck.

[15meter]

https://shop.thecmp.org/product/Shooting%20Equipment/409

Price has gone up, used to be considerably cheaper.

Thanks bidenomics.

[country gent]

I believe his 4 H competition will satisfy the one and then belong to an affiliated club. Go to the cmps website and they will have it listed.

If hes shooting a scope hell have the adjustments he needs just make sure he has a dime in his pocket.

A big help if shooting on the ground is a mat to sit kneel and lay on. a carpet remnant will work better is one of the rubber floor mats you buy by the foot, best is an actual shooting mat.

Also keep us posted how he does inquiring minds ( just plain Nosey) want to know.

[jsizemore]

North Carolina Rifle and Pistol Association may be able to help you locate a club in your area that hosts matches and training. They may be able to help you locate a school air rifle team. My old club sponsored a dozen kids on their high school team with rifles, pellets, instruction and gunsmithing. They also distribute donated ammo.

[jimlj]

I shoot in a pistol club with a very diverse group of guys. Several are excellent shooters. $300 guns regularly beat $5000 guns. While more money can improve a professional shooter, I'm betting at the 4H level a bit of practice and learned skill, your sons Marlin will compete with and beat a fancy rifle.

[brokeasajoke]

Thanks guys. Yesterday we had official club training and he shot the wrong target. We need some work.

[JimB..]

Thanks guys. Yesterday we had official club training and he shot the wrong target. We need some work.

Nowhere to go but up!

[Paper Puncher]

Thanks guys. Yesterday we had official club training and he shot the wrong target. We need some work.

Shooting the wrong target has even happened in the Olympics. Just have to learn from it.

[15meter]

Thanks guys. Yesterday we had official club training and he shot the wrong target. We need some work.

Crossfire happens, we had one guy at our varmint matches that crossfired regularly. For a while we were putting one of the old style kerosene burning road flares under his target.

He started to pay more attention. He actually shot pretty good scores when he kept all his shots on his target.

Or he could be wrong eye dominant, first time I took my daughter shooting, I hung two targets side by side. Told her to shoot the left target, almost a bullseye on the right target.

Chewed her out for not knowing her left from her right.

Had her shoot again, same thing, watched her for the third shot, shooting right handed but leaning way over using her left eye.

She's extremely left eye dominant, which causes her endless problems when shooting. She's right handed but the eye dominance thing screws her up.

[uscra112]

Can she try a "pirates' patch" on the left eye? I personally believe you can train yourself out of that extreme dominance with practice.

[jsizemore]

I've had my eye dominance swap a few times. These help a bunch:

http://eyeblindllc.biz/

[country gent]

There are those who cross fired and those who are about to.
A cross fire cost me making the presidents 100 one year I got in a hurry on the last shot at 600 yds and forgot to check number board put an X on the target beside mine.
The big pain was you couldnt really tell how he did with 2 shooters on one target.

Its a learning experience only up to go.. Keep practicing and keep him going. In practice post several targets get him used to having to check number boards.

[uscra112]

I'm decidedly strange, I guess. From childhood I've been able to switch master eyes at will.

[oldhenry]

Troy Lawton told me there were 3 important things in off hand shooting:
1. Dry fire
2. Dry fire
3. Dry fire
Of course you need to protect the RF chamber: a previously fired empty will do if rotated .
I agree that a receiver sight & partridge front is much better than a scope. A globe type front is even better.
Make the rifle fit the shooter (it doesn't need to be pretty). Plastic wood of fiberglass is your friend.
Foot work is important: establish a natural point of aim (shut your eyes & when opened the sights should be close to target). Adjust foot position until sights are on target.
I agree on trigger work. A smooth (but legal) trigger is your friend.
A shooting coat & proper glove (I used a mitt) is a definite asset.
Off hand shooting is 90% mental. Do not be distracted. Don't let the high dollar equipment of the competition faze you. Don't think about the last shot or the next shot. Think only about the shot you're making.
Bring the rifle to you (not you to the rifle). If this means canting, then cant.
Forget about a sling.

People have written books about this stuff, but the important points for me are the above.

I had a .22 RF "mirror image" of my "Space Gun" & am fortunate to have my own range. Every morning my shooting buddy would arrive early & we'd shoot offhand @ 100 yds. @ a 200 yd. reduced target (before it got too hot for the shooting coats).
One morning I had a great score going & had 3 shots remaining. I forgot about "thinking about nothing but the shot I was making" & blew the best score of my life. A week or two later I told Troy about my failure & I'll never forget his reply: " you were reading the headlines".

[15meter]

Can she try a "pirates' patch" on the left eye? I personally believe you can train yourself out of that extreme dominance with practice.

She doesn't shoot much, the eye dominance thing was discovered 25+ years ago. She has taught herself to use her right eye when shooting a rifle, she uses her left eye when shooting pistol.

She's got it pretty well under control.

[BadgerShooter]

Practice is great if it is purposeful and you are practicing the right things. Lots of practice doing it wrong is horrible. Make sure you practice with solid fundamentals every time and practice with a purpose.

[HWooldridge]

My wife is right handed and left eye dominant. She can’t handle a long gun but is a crack shot with a pistol because she can swing over and line up properly. I’ve seen her make some excellent hits on all types of targets. That characteristic is certainly something to consider when someone is having difficulty with a shotgun or rifle.

[brokeasajoke]

One of the range officers mentioned using a sling and wrap it around his support hand.

[country gent]

The sling or cuff depending on rifle when I was shooting high power rifle was tight enough that I had to put my right hand on the buttstock and push it forward to get it in my shoulder. I actually placed the rifle in my shoulder. Sling tension was such that the seam on the sling swivels where the sheet metal base came together were welded to keep from pulling apart. But with out the heavy coat and glove this tension becomes uncomfortable quick.

Learn to use your time limits to the fullest, Breathe, relax, rest eyes, have everything in position where it needs to be. Have ammo in a stand or holder that makes it handy and easy to get to. Ive sen blocks for ammo that match the old 12 bull small bore target. This block not only showed where you were on your target but also made ammo handy. They are easy to make from a scrap of wood.

[Bigslug]

David Tubb's Highpower Rifle is a worthwhile read.

Look at the Savage MKI (single shot) or MKII FVT (magazine) which seems to be the current era's entry level "club" smallbore gun. These have the globe sight arrangement common to International Smallbore and will get you into the game properly at about a tenth the cost of a real Olympic rifle. If there's a single shot adapter for the MKII, that will give you a rifle for both proper smallbore and for simulating an NRA Match Rifle course of fire. Could even be upgraded with sight inserts and a sight extension or "bloop" tube. Only (possible) negative I can see is that plastic stocks in that price range tend to flex under the pressure of a tight cuff sling. Hopefully they've addressed that.

I don't know if military surplus stores still exist anymore, but you can go a long way with the green canvas shooting coats that used to go for about twenty bucks in the 1990's. It lacks the stiffeners and tightening straps of the NRA Highpower coats, but since those features aren't legal for International matches, it's probably a better entry option anyway.

The humble green canvas M1 Garand sling, unclipped from the rear swivel, is the cheapest - and one of the best - cuff sling options you can buy. A winter ski glove will serve for padding the support hand.

Shooting mat? Nah! 6'x2' carpet remnant!

[Digital Dan]

Offhand shooting is drifting into the realm of extinction in the USA, but it is a very valuable skill. 25 yards? No scope, use open irons or preferably aperture sights. Scopes function poorly at close range due to parallax issues and the fact they magnify movement on the target. Kids have better vision than adults for the most part, time for them to learn how to use it.

Have not figured out how to post pics here, but one of the very best tools I ever used for offhand rifle shooting was a flintlock .45 caliber rifle. The slow ignition cycle reinforced the idea of staying on target with follow through in a very big way. When I figured that out, 5 shot 50 yards groups of 1-1.5" were the norm.

[brokeasajoke]

Thanks everyone.

[country gent]

We started a lot of juniors with the green canvas military shooting coats. You want a snug fit resewing the buttons on to custom fit it to the shooter helps. Another trick is to attend some small bore matches and clubs that support it theres a lot of used equipment thats been out grown reasonable.

[BadgerShooter]

Proper sling management for prone, sitting and kneeling is critical. Slings are not legal for support in offhand in any of the NRA/CMP, ISU things I have ever shot.

[brokeasajoke]

Proper sling management for prone, sitting and kneeling is critical. Slings are not legal for support in offhand in any of the NRA/CMP, ISU things I have ever shot.
They must be legal in 4h as one of the coaches recommended trying one.

[brokeasajoke]

Done much better last practice. Definitely getting better.

[AnthonyB]

Randy nailed it earlier. Get him to an Appleseed event and he will learn all the basics required for shooting out to 500 yards on a full-size silhouette target using nothing but a USGI sling. Email me at al@appleseedinfo.org if you want more info or help finding an event.
Tony

[Lance Boyle]

My great uncles taught me to shoot offhand. Both were skilled target shots in Schuetzen style competitions. They always said no live person can hold perfectly still so you have to intentionally move in a controlled manner. For them, that meant making small circles with the barrel while aiming (this was with iron sights). They shot while the front sight was coming up to meet the target; if the view was wrong then make another circle until it was right, then trip the trigger. As mentioned, practice makes perfect - they generally shot 100 rounds every Sunday during those months when matches were held. The real match just became another practice session.


I did a sideways figure 8 wobble.

OP, one thing that did tighten up my offhand besides practice...... moderate weight lifting. Not so much to muscle the gun on to the target but just to stave off fatigue supporting of a heavy match gun in the hot sun. Better conditioning seldom hurts.

I say this as a fat old man now.

[Lance Boyle]

I'm decidedly strange, I guess. From childhood I've been able to switch master eyes at will.



I only switch when tired. I discovered on the skeet field, missing by a mile when my eye dominance switched.

[BadgerShooter]

tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_J38Yate2U

Watch some of the best women smallbore shooters in the world.

[kootne]

Position
Sight Alignment
Breath Control
Trigger Squeeze
Follow Through

[elmacgyver0]

When I was in 4H, all we did was raise pigs and calves.

[country gent]

If theres a CMP/DCM club near you consider the beginners match if they put one on. Check with your state rifle pistol association for it. Ohios was a weekend event saturday was 4 hours class room and a practice match with coaches sunday was a actual match. Rifles and ammo were supplied at ours. Only personal gear was needed. This was a high power event garands and a fee ar15/m16s were the rifles.

Our match filled up early father son teams boy scouts some mother daughter and girl scouts, and friends it was a 2 man team event. It was a fun event for the competitors and people putting it on.