6% antimonial lead

[Ole]

As luck would have it, I have some of this on the way.

What should I do to it to make it like WW alloy? Cut it 50/50 with pure lead and add a little tin? I have lots of tin. :smile:

Do WW's still have arsenic? I remember reading that is an important part of what makes WW's harden when water quenched. I'm sure the NSA/CIA/FBI would come knocking on my door if I started looking into acquiring some arsenic. [smilie=f:

Thanks in advance for any help.

Matt

[pps]

I did just that today. My neighbor got rid of his shotgun reloading stuff. He gave me a 25# bag of west coast extra hard #8 shot (6% antimony and trace As). I combined with 29# of stick on wheel weights I smelted down on my last trip to the tire shop, and the 12# of recaptured Hornady swagged bullets (5% Antimony) I had on hand and added 1# of tin.

This should be close to the alloy beartooth boolits uses on their stuff and should heat treat nicely. Your combo sounds close enough to me.

[snaggdit]

There was a thread a week or 2 ago with info on how much arsenic was necessary to harden alloy by water dropping. It also mentioned several other ingredients that could be used as "catalysts". I don't remember them all, but sulfur was one of them. As PPS mentioned Hard shot has arsenic as well as WW. Maybe a small percentage of either will give you the amt of arsenic you need. Other option is to add one of the other trace elements necessary for water or heat treat hardening (if that is your goal).

[felix]

Arsenic is NOT required. Just about any substance that can act as a metal in the pot will poison the mix enough to allow for irregular movement of the elements during cooling. Look at the foreign material as a catalyst if you like, but if it is included in the finished mix, then chemically it was not a catalyst, but a participant. If the elements are not in the correct proportions for a quick freeze (i.e. a slush stage exists when cooled slowly), then the final structure will water drop harden. Quick freeze lead type alloys won't harden. Keep in mind that it is very difficult to see if there is a true zero slush stage at home. Best to water drop what you have and compare that to air dried. If no difference, then we can say there was no slush stage. ... felix

[snaggdit]

Yep, what Felix said. I quoted catalyst because I remembered enough of the previous post that it clarified it was not actually a catalyst.

[jhrosier]

..
What should I do to it to make it like WW alloy? Cut it 50/50 with pure lead and add a little tin? ...

That will work just fine. You will need to add about 3% tin to the alloy.


Do WW's still have arsenic? I remember reading that is an important part of what makes WW's harden when water quenched. ...

The alloy will harden without arsenic when you water drop. The arsenic is helpful only when you are heat treating.

Water dropping will roughy double the hardness of your boolits immediately, with a smaller increase over the next couple of days. Heat treating will give a much lower initial hardness that will increase greatly over the next one to two weeks.

Water dropping is said to give less consistent results than heat treating as the temperature of the boolit can vary significantly with your casting temperature and time from the pot to the quench. Heat treating is said to be more consistent as all of the boolits in a batch are brought to the same temperture and quenched simultaniously.

Also, water dropping may result in a boolit with a softer core as the rate of temperture change during water dropping is not high enough for boolits with large mass. I don't know how this affects heat treated boolits.

I do only water dropping as it suits my needs.


Jack

[blackthorn]

My understanding of lead bullet alloy is:
Heat treated alloy, either water-dropped or oven-treated softens over time.
Arsenic in the alloy is not a "hardener".
Arsenic is a "stabilizer" that slows (or stops) the "softening" of heat treated bullets over time.
Only a very small amount of Arsenic is required to "stabilize" the alloy.

Is this wrong?

[felix]

Yep, Arsenic will harden lead just like antimony. But, antimony will allow the boolit to grow, and arsenic will not. If you have arsenic and no antimony, I am not sure how hard the water dropped boolits will get. Most alloys found will have antimony, but not all will have arsenic without antimony. Anyway, junk lead is gold and we don't allow any of it get out of our hands no matter the composition. ... felix

[snaggdit]

OK, dug around in the old posts. Here is the link to the file on hardening. This time I saved it to my Reloading folder on my machine so I have it handy the next time I need to re-read it.
http://www.castpics.net/memberarticles/arsenic.htm

[runfiverun]

if your alloy is 2/6 or terracorp magnum alloy i would definately cut it 50/50 with pure.
which should give a 1/3 mix and will do bout anything you want.
the above discussion is exactly the reason for note taking while casting and striving for consistency in casting tempo, speed ,temp,and alloy composition.

[Lloyd Smale]

personaly 6/2 is about my favorite alloy for casting as is. I wouldnt cut it as harder alloys are tough to find and you may want it in the future. If your looking for ww hardness go look for some wws and use them.

[jhrosier]

I have been cutting 2/6/92 with enought WW to drop the antimony to 4% and adding enough solder to bring the tin back up to 4%.
I casts be-utiful boolits that water drop to about BHN 24. Haven't checked them since but they are probably a shade harder after a couple of days.

Jack

[MT Gianni]

+1 on what Lloyd said. It is a useful alloy for auto pistols.

[yodar]

Arsenic is NOT required. Just about any substance that can act as a metal in the pot will poison the mix enough to allow for irregular movement of the elements during cooling. Look at the foreign material as a catalyst if you like, but if it is included in the finished mix, then chemically it was not a catalyst, but a participant. If the elements are not in the correct proportions for a quick freeze (i.e. a slush stage exists when cooled slowly), then the final structure will water drop harden. Quick freeze lead type alloys won't harden. Keep in mind that it is very difficult to see if there is a true zero slush stage at home. Best to water drop what you have and compare that to air dried. If no difference, then we can say there was no slush stage. ... felix

ARSENIC IS used in shot making to harden the metal and to act as a surfactant so it turns spherical more quickly from the shot tower. (Olin Brass and Lake City Arsenal were customers I called on, as well as Doe Run Lead (formerly St. Joe) and Rolla school of mines)

Arsenic is needed in shotmaking

yodar

[felix]

Very true, Yodar! Arsenic will increase surface tension, and tin will decrease surface tension. Besides that, I went to Rolla for two years before transferring to Columbia. There were only 26 girls in the entire school of mines when I went there. Met my wife Pat the second year in Columbia. ... felix