Heavy 9mm Subsonic semi auto pistol mold (147-165gr)?

[speedyr]

Anyone have a mold they like that works in pistols that's heavy for the 9mm? Obviously there are plenty of 147gr molds out there, but wondering if anyone has any luck with something up to 165gr (like the Xtreme bullets 165gr rn)?

bullet would be powder coated, mostly shot in semi auto pistols (FN 509T and Glock) suppressed but could see some sub gun use at some point.

I've seen plenty of cast bullets that are the heavier weights (even sizing down 38/357 bullets) but trying to find a specific mold that someone is currently using that works. The issue is, with the heavier weights, the nose of the bullet can cause feeding issues in many cases, so ideally looking for a mold that someone has used in a semi auto pistol. Would be great if it was something that I could swap out and make HP bullets as well (some older threads had some MP/NOE molds that would cast around 155-160gr solid and 150gr hp).

Worst case I order the newer Lee 356-147-TC and see how it works.

[Barry54]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?468123-200-grain-9mm-subsonic

You might be surprised by what will feed.

If I were to get a custom mold, I’d make this a boattail. Put a good hollow point in it to bring the weight down.

[nueces5]

I bought this MP mold
https://www.mp-molds.com/product/9mm-38-147-rn-bb-8-cav-aluminum-nlg-mold/
I just shot it this Sunday, about 150 boolits, with good precision, I used WSL 3.6 grains.
I think in my case I will go up to 3.7 or 3.8, since I have had a couple of extraction failures.
The boolit enters very low in the brass, so I build them quite long, which the mag allows me to do.
I use pure lead and add linotype to 11BHN, with that alloy it ends up coming out at 149 grains.
Quite accurate on my tanfoglio stock2

[sureYnot]

I shoot c358-165rf from mp molds out of my 9mm. Not enough penetration with the hp pins, so I use the solids in the 9mm. They weigh 167 after pc. No feeding or other issues. Also the most accurate boolit so far, in both my 9mm and 357.

[475AR]

I got this Accurate Molds 36-160F and it casts like a dream and I made up some dummy rounds and they feed no issues in my G17 and G 19. I haven't had a chance to do any load development for them yet but hope to this summer.
326440
326441
With the lead I had in my pot they cast at 165gr.

[Sandspider500]

I use an mp 360-640 hp. It drops 145gr as a deep hollow point and 155gr as a solid. It will give you the option of multiple weights by changing the pins. Feeds great.

[archeryrob]

I have the MP round nose as listed above and the HP of same weight. They shoot great but I get a good drop of 2" at 20 yards compared to 124 grains. No issues with feeding with either MP mold for me.

RN I cast with WW for target rounds. HP I cast with 7/8 BHN 1/2 and 1/2 allow to get better expansion. The RP's do not expand 1/1000" when fired into a barrel of water. Pure hole punchers. Mic out the same diameter as the barrel still.

[atfsux]

For us users of Magma machines, they used to make a 160 grn. round-nose for .38super. It could also be sized down to 9mm and you'll see the end product still offered by many commercial casters. If you have a Master Caster or Bullet Master machine, NEW WEST makes the molds now.

This image shows it on the far left, as offered by Bayou Bullets.

https://i.imgur.com/dL8DnrR.jpg

[Intel6]

I use this MP 8 cavity mould to make heavy bullets mainly for my competition revolvers.

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-356-153-2r-solid-bevel-base-8-cavity-mold-no-lube-groove/

With softer lead I get a 163-165gr. bullet.

I have coated them in HT and PC but prefer the HT. While I got it mainly for my revolvers I have loaded and shot it successfully in 9mm autos.


In the pic below you can see samples of the bullet both with PC and HiTek. The two loaded 9mm rounds on the left are loaded to length for my 9mm revolver and the one on the right is loaded for shooting in my autos. You can see I seated them slightly shorter than my revolver load. These shoot super soft and in my Glock 17L they are almost too soft shooting.


And below is a pick of the MP 8 cavity mould that just rains bullets out. Molds for bullets with no lube grooves are easy to use as the bullets just fall out upon opening. And when you are making 8 bullets at a time you can really produce lots of bullets in a short time.



326499





326500

[fredj338]

I've shot the Saeco 158grTC. It seats too deep for me but does work. A RN or RNFP would seat out a bit further. The 16-165 shoot stupid soft but in a heavy steel slide, like a 1911, the slide speed is very slow. I went back to 147.

[Rapier]

I have found that the 38 Super 160 grain RN plain base hard cast in the 9mm Para case with AA #7 you can get fair results with a Tarus 92 with its supported chamber. Also found that they do make up a serious comp gun, if converted to single action with a screw through a slot in the trigger bar, and with a tapered cone comp and a slide cut with the front tapered and cut round and centered in a 4 jaw chuck. A solid guide rod through the bottom of the comp block, keeps the barrel fairly stable. Imp can be done as a threaded barrel for a can. The frame safety works well.Some time you can find them in pawn shops for cheap.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Lyman 356637 works well in all my firearms.
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/000152660637/double-cavity-pistol-bullet-mould-number-356637-9mm-147-grain

It's tapered which really helps when seating into a tapered case. My soft boolits weight 157gr after PC.

The nose is stepped down which helps feeding in non-throated barrels.
326630

[jdgabbard]

I bought this MP mold
https://www.mp-molds.com/product/9mm-38-147-rn-bb-8-cav-aluminum-nlg-mold/
I just shot it this Sunday, about 150 boolits, with good precision, I used WSL 3.6 grains.
I think in my case I will go up to 3.7 or 3.8, since I have had a couple of extraction failures.
The boolit enters very low in the brass, so I build them quite long, which the mag allows me to do.
I use pure lead and add linotype to 11BHN, with that alloy it ends up coming out at 149 grains.
Quite accurate on my tanfoglio stock2

I have the Lube Groove version of this mold. I BELIEVE it's a clone of the Saeco 928 mold. You can search for data related to that mold, it should open up some possibilities for you.

Also, if you go back and look at older manuals, you might see that there is load data out there for using the Lyman 358311 160gr bullet in the 9mm. I haven't done this, at least I don't remember having ever done it. But I hear it's a pretty decent shooter if you can chamber it.

[rintinglen]

-15%
I use the the MP mold below, it works well and runs about 150 grains with my range lead alloy.

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/9mm-147-556-rcbs-clone-8-cav-aluminum-mold/

9-147 556 rcbs clone, 8 cavity AL mold

Ps. 8 at a time makes for a lot of boolits in a fairly short time.

[PhatForrest]

I also use the MP 147gr. Makes a lot of wonderful subsonic 9mm boolits quickly.

[Bigslug]

What's your terminal ballistics objective?

Lighter than you're asking for, but illustrative of feeding: I'm running the NOE/Ranch Dog 135 grain tumble luber, which can also be seen in the Accurate Molds catalog as the 35-135D. Feeds wonderfully across seven different guns from four brands and takes nine gallon jugs of water to stop at a launch speed of 1030 fps - about 2 1/3x what you'd expect of a duty hollow point. I've tried a jug test with 147gr FMJ at 1,000 fps. I can't recall if it was 10 or 11 jugs in the stack, but it punched straight through and was not collected.

Generating a hollow point in the 150-160 grain range will require a mold profile that would cast about a 170-175 grain solid. Elmer Keith in Sixguns was not totally clear in his writing but we can infer that he was discussing his buddies using a hollow point version of his 358429 sized down accordingly for 9mm and seated deep. As I recall, they were using light charges of Bullseye to get it up to about 800-900 feet per second, which basically means his pals invented the .38+P "FBI Load" (a.) for an automatic and (b.) before it was cool.;-)

Thing is, the heavier weight HP's are going to get iffy for expansion at the low speeds you'll likely be lobbing them at, and you can get a bunch of penetration with solids in the "standard" 9mm weight range of 147 grains on down, while still at subsonic speeds for a suppressor. Any heavier, your trajectory will become awful, and I'd be a bit dubious of any terminal advantage gained.

[Barry54]

What's your terminal ballistics objective?

Lighter than you're asking for, but illustrative of feeding: I'm running the NOE/Ranch Dog 135 grain tumble luber, which can also be seen in the Accurate Molds catalog as the 35-135D. Feeds wonderfully across seven different guns from four brands and takes nine gallon jugs of water to stop at a launch speed of 1030 fps - about 2 1/3x what you'd expect of a duty hollow point. I've tried a jug test with 147gr FMJ at 1,000 fps. I can't recall if it was 10 or 11 jugs in the stack, but it punched straight through and was not collected.

Generating a hollow point in the 150-160 grain range will require a mold profile that would cast about a 170-175 grain solid. Elmer Keith in Sixguns was not totally clear in his writing but we can infer that he was discussing his buddies using a hollow point version of his 358429 sized down accordingly for 9mm and seated deep. As I recall, they were using light charges of Bullseye to get it up to about 800-900 feet per second, which basically means his pals invented the .38+P "FBI Load" (a.) for an automatic and (b.) before it was cool.;-)

Thing is, the heavier weight HP's are going to get iffy for expansion at the low speeds you'll likely be lobbing them at, and you can get a bunch of penetration with solids in the "standard" 9mm weight range of 147 grains on down, while still at subsonic speeds for a suppressor. Any heavier, your trajectory will become awful, and I'd be a bit dubious of any terminal advantage gained.

Assuming the velocity upper limit is the speed of sound, wouldn’t the heavier boolit generally have a better ballistic coefficient?

So if a 135 a 147 and a 165 grain were all launched at the same velocity, wouldn’t the one with the highest bc have the flattest trajectory?

And all subsonic trajectories are awful anyway, so how much does it matter?

[jdgabbard]

Thing is, the heavier weight HP's are going to get iffy for expansion at the low speeds you'll likely be lobbing them at, and you can get a bunch of penetration with solids in the "standard" 9mm weight range of 147 grains on down, while still at subsonic speeds for a suppressor. Any heavier, your trajectory will become awful, and I'd be a bit dubious of any terminal advantage gained.

Personally, I wouldn't even bother with expansion. When you're traveling subsonic with boolits weights you're going to see in a 9mm, I'd be more concerned with penetration. This is sort of like the 380acp, you can have penetration, or expansion. You're not going to get both....at least in most cases.


Assuming the velocity upper limit is the speed of sound, wouldn’t the heavier boolit generally have a better ballistic coefficient?

So if a 135 a 147 and a 165 grain were all launched at the same velocity, wouldn’t the one with the highest bc have the flattest trajectory?

And all subsonic trajectories are awful anyway, so how much does it matter?

Not to mention it'll have more energy, which helps with flatness of the trajectory and penetration.

[speedyr]

What's your terminal ballistics objective?

Lighter than you're asking for, but illustrative of feeding: I'm running the NOE/Ranch Dog 135 grain tumble luber, which can also be seen in the Accurate Molds catalog as the 35-135D. Feeds wonderfully across seven different guns from four brands and takes nine gallon jugs of water to stop at a launch speed of 1030 fps - about 2 1/3x what you'd expect of a duty hollow point. I've tried a jug test with 147gr FMJ at 1,000 fps. I can't recall if it was 10 or 11 jugs in the stack, but it punched straight through and was not collected.

Generating a hollow point in the 150-160 grain range will require a mold profile that would cast about a 170-175 grain solid. Elmer Keith in Sixguns was not totally clear in his writing but we can infer that he was discussing his buddies using a hollow point version of his 358429 sized down accordingly for 9mm and seated deep. As I recall, they were using light charges of Bullseye to get it up to about 800-900 feet per second, which basically means his pals invented the .38+P "FBI Load" (a.) for an automatic and (b.) before it was cool.;-)

Thing is, the heavier weight HP's are going to get iffy for expansion at the low speeds you'll likely be lobbing them at, and you can get a bunch of penetration with solids in the "standard" 9mm weight range of 147 grains on down, while still at subsonic speeds for a suppressor. Any heavier, your trajectory will become awful, and I'd be a bit dubious of any terminal advantage gained.

For me personally if it's a cast subsonic bullet it's just for playing around and punching paper. If I am hunting subsonic or really concerned about terminal performance I'm more likely to grab a 300 blackout AR platform with 220gr Maker subsonic expanding bullets. or if I need bigger, a 45-70 with 400-500gr cast/coated bullets.

My main objective was to have a 147-160gr cast bullet that would work well in semi auto pistols (FN, glock, etc) and possibly an HK SP5/SP5k or other 9mm sub gun platforms. By work well, mainly just function 100% and be semi accurate at 50 yards+. If I could find one that would be possible to cast as a HP as well as a solid, that would be a nice bonus.

[popper]

Sorry, kinda a worthless pipe dream. Or 'I want to do something silly'. No reason for anything > 150gr. Personally don't see any advantage of 147gr.

[speedyr]

The advantage of the 147gr+ bullet is just about every load in a loading manual is going to be subsonic so you don't have to change the loads a lot to have subsonic speeds. If your goal is to have a quiet load for plinking, but still have some mass to ring or knock down a steel plate, the 147gr bullets are the correct weight.

[adnservers]

I’ve had good luck with the NOE molds, specifically the 160gr for 9mm. I use it in my FN 509T, and it cycles fine even when suppressed. Powder coating makes a big difference in feeding smoothly. Haven’t tried making HP bullets with it, but for solid subsonics, it’s been reliable.

[Bigslug]

For me personally if it's a cast subsonic bullet it's just for playing around and punching paper. If I am hunting subsonic or really concerned about terminal performance I'm more likely to grab a 300 blackout AR platform with 220gr Maker subsonic expanding bullets. or if I need bigger, a 45-70 with 400-500gr cast/coated bullets.

My main objective was to have a 147-160gr cast bullet that would work well in semi auto pistols (FN, glock, etc) and possibly an HK SP5/SP5k or other 9mm sub gun platforms. By work well, mainly just function 100% and be semi accurate at 50 yards+. If I could find one that would be possible to cast as a HP as well as a solid, that would be a nice bonus.

Within that box then, going bigger than 147gr probably becomes a matter of trying to stuff 20 pounds of poop into a 5 pound bag. Kind of the handgun version of "Yes, you CAN shoot 200 grain bullets out of a .308 and a short action, but that's kinda what the .30-06 is for" (or in this case, .38 Super and .357 Mag). As I said in the last post - PLENTY of penetration can be had with a 135 grain solid, and I would be fairly interested in playing around with a 147 grain mold equipped with multiple sets of nose pins - a cup point that reduced the solid weight to about 135-140 grains and held expansion to about .55 caliber would be a very useful thing.

[speedyr]

I’ve had good luck with the NOE molds, specifically the 160gr for 9mm. I use it in my FN 509T, and it cycles fine even when suppressed. Powder coating makes a big difference in feeding smoothly. Haven’t tried making HP bullets with it, but for solid subsonics, it’s been reliable.

which NOE mold are you using? I checked the .355 and they don't show one (180gr hp) or are you resizing the .358 bullets down? I assume you are talking about the 358-160-FN? Looks like they are sold out of the HP PB version...