Where to start with pure lead for 9mm and .45?

[Timbers]

Hello everyone,

I have the Lee 124GR round-nose 9mm mold and the Lee 230GR round-nose .45ACP mold.

I have quite a bit of pure lead which I have tested with pencils to be in the 4-6 BHN.

I like reloading with Titegroup for 9mm and .45ACP

I'm not opposed to powder coating, but will probably start with Alox for now.

What should I add to my pure lead for a starting alloy? Whatever I add I will probably have to buy from Rotometals because I don't have access to linotype or wheel weights, etc, unless I get lucky and find it online. I've heard I should aim for about 10BHN when loading 9mm and .45?

I'm just looking for a starting point on my alloy. I can experiment with dropping in cold water, powder coating, slugging, sizing, later. I'd just like to get some boolits made so I can start somewhere. Thanks.

[contender1]

Pure lead will be too soft for 9mm & .45 acp. Even if you powder coat them.

You need to alloy them.

If you plan to order from Rotometals,, you can call them & ask them what they suggest in their alloy's that can be added to your pure to harden it.

Or,, do a search around here,,as there's a chart that shows how to blend metals for whatever hardness you seek. (I can't recall where the chart is at the moment.)

[Barry54]

https://bulletmatch.com/pages/lead-alloy-calculator

[gwpercle]

Pure lead , even when powder coated is too soft for loading into a 9mm Luger .
When you seat the boolit in the case it gets squeezed down and the soft nose deforms on the feed ramps .
I mix pure lead and COWW 50-50 for a bhn 8-9 and this works if you are careful with boolit seating .
You are going to need something to alloy with your pure lead for semi-auto use ...
Call Roto-Metals and talk to tech. , explain what you are loading for and get advice as to most cost effective alloy to mix with your pure lead .
Pure Lead is a good thing to have ... lots of other alloys out there can be mixed with it for boolit metal .
The 50-50 mix (pure - COWW) is a great revolver boolit alloy too ... I use it , air cooled , for just about all handgun needs .

Gary

[Timbers]

Great thanks for the help I’ll call them and see what they say!

[AlaskaMike]

RMR Bullets has leftover lead from their jacketed bullet manufacturing for a better price than Rotometals. It's about 10 BHN.

I use it for 10mm and .45 auto all the time. If I had a mold for 9mm I'd use it for that as well.

[fredj338]

Issue with pure lead in shallow rifling is getting good stability. Just adding a bit of tin helps, certainly a bit of harder alloy like lino makes a big diff. I shoot a lot of range scrap with very good results. I PC but used to shoot lubed with equal results, just dirtier & in 9mm, more leading.

[mehavey]

Pure lead , even when powder coated is too soft for loading into a 9mm Luger
^^^^ THIS ^^^^

However in the 45 ACP, it can work well at target velocities:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?452304-45-acp-super-soft-bhn-experiment&p=5521279&viewfull=1#post5521279
Cast HOT (800 dgr or so)

BTW: Tin adds very little if any effective hardening.

[Half Dog]

Just my 2 cents worth, if you care to add your location to your avatar someone local might be able to suggest where they get their metals.

Good luck.

[Willie T]

Adding 5% tin will give you 20/1. A very good pistol alloy. Bhn 10. Good expansion. Been used a long time. Tin is pricey if you can’t make scrounging it work for you. I scrounge pewter. I alloy my own red neck 20/1 with pewter. I’ve cast and shot both 9mm and 40 S&W with my redneck pewter 20/1. My results have been satisfactory.
Good luck finding a solution to making your pure soft work to suit your 9mm.
Willie.

[mehavey]

One of the reasons Lead/Tin alloys give good expansion is that that they are soft -- even at high (and expensive) tin ratios.
When actually measured/tested for hardness, 30-1 is ~BHN 5.8, and 20-1 no more than ~7.8.

Making sure that they are sized to properly fit the barrel, they perform exceptionally well and are GREAT for hunting even
at (what are nowadays) "moderate" velocities.





(But 30-35,000 psi 9mm is a bridge too far for such soft alloys -- Lyman #2 is your best bet)

[GONRA]

GONRA sez "Range Lead " verks Just Fine for plinking with common Auto Pistol calibers.
Bet the PC innovation makes it even better? ??

[Loudenboomer]

Plenty of alloys will get you there. Keeping the cost down will depend on what is available to you. Tin is king but expensive. Adding 20% linotype and 2% tin will also get you there.

[Shanghai Jack]

Adding 5% tin will give you 20/1. A very good pistol alloy. Bhn 10. Good expansion. Been used a long time. Tin is pricey if you can’t make scrounging it work for you. I scrounge pewter. I alloy my own red neck 20/1 with pewter. I’ve cast and shot both 9mm and 40 S&W with my redneck pewter 20/1. My results have been satisfactoryWillie.

Well close

4.76 percent tin gives you 20-1

[Shanghai Jack]

Just measured out this coming weekend's melt- 304 pounds of pure lead and 96 pounds of Foundry metal. Should come in at BH 15.2 according to the calculators. Just a little softer than hardball and a little harder than lyman 2.

[243winxb]

70/30 lead/linotype.

[243winxb]

Pure & 2% antimony, with a touch of tin will water harden.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/make-cast-bullets-harder-oven-heat-treating.4774/full

[243winxb]

Sizing before heat treatment

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/oven-heat-treating-cast-bullets-water-cooled-to-harden-alloy-must-contain-2-antimony-minimum.3749/full

[Rickf1985]

I see the lube pad, do you lube your boolits before sizing on the Lee dies?

[243winxb]

Yes, lube is needed before sizing & after.

RCBS 2 lube first sizing before heat treat. Easy to remove before the oven.

After heat treat, Lee Liquid Alox or Lyman 450 sizer/luber.

[mehavey]

Unless you're grossly resizing (like 458 --> 452) I've never found lube req'd.
- Just run Hornady 1-shot into the die to clean.
- Dry out thoroughly w/ twisted-up paper towel.
- Size . . .

But check it out yourself.

[Tripplebeards]

I’d tell you to go straight Cast wheel weight alloy. Pure is way too soft for 9mm as everyone has mentioned.

[Sam Sackett]

I’d tell you to go straight Cast wheel weight alloy. Pure is way too soft for 9mm as everyone has mentioned.


This!
Sam Sackett

[Rickf1985]

I think pure is too soft for any kind of smokeless powder shooting in modern guns. Powder coating is nice but it does not change the physical characteristic's of the lead. Soft is soft and when you slam it with a load heavy enough to get it out of the barrel the soft bullet is going to obturate, A LOT! Which is going to jam it into the lands much harder than it should. This will strip the PC off of the lead and then you are cleaning heavy leading. People that say they are shooting pure in 45 and especially 9mm are either lying or they have never checked their "pure" lead for hardness.

[john.k]

A lot of whats called pure lead is recovered building sheet ...and it has a certain amount of alloys to make it 'stiff' enough to be handled and installed.........Ive found the x ray shield sheet to ideal for blackpowder guns ..... (not Minies)

[quilbilly]

If you have any hard/chillest birdshot around, just mix 60% pure with 40% shot and you should have a fine alloy for your purposes.

[mehavey]

...pure is too soft for any kind of smokeless powder shooting in modern guns.
Powder coating is nice but ...Soft is soft and when you slam it with a load heavy
enough to get it out of the barrel the soft bullet is going to... will strip the PC
off of the lead....

See https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?451263-%93Soft-point-hardcast%94&p=5506686&viewfull=1#post5506686

30-1 is "effectively" pure lead. Held to anything short of magnum pressures,
PC will protect the bullet and the base, as well as hold to the the bullet itself
all the through its travels -- barrel, and target material alike.

Even the purest of pure lead -- powder coated -- does extraordinarily well in
most all arms at moderate/moderately fast velocities.
See also https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?409893-Pure-Lead-amp-PC&p=5001471&viewfull=1#post5001471

Consider powder coating to be the pure-lead/paper patched bullet reborn -- in polyester.

[uscra112]

OP said he has no access to wheelweights or

[uscra112]

What should I add to my pure lead for a starting alloy? Whatever I add I will probably have to buy from Rotometals because I don't have access to linotype or wheel weights, etc, unless I get lucky and find it online. I've heard I should aim for about 10BHN when loading 9mm and .45?

I'm just looking for a starting point on my alloy. I can experiment with dropping in cold water, powder coating, slugging, sizing, later. I'd just like to get some boolits made so I can start somewhere. Thanks.

OP says right off that he has no access to linotype or wheelweights, and you guys apparently didn't notice.

SIMPLE and QUICK solution, although not cheap, is to go buy lead-free plumbing solder, which nowadays is about 95% tin, (which is why it's not cheap). Any hardware store has it. Mix about 1 pound solder to 20 pounds pure lead.

Lucky me, I bought about 45 pounds of the old 50-50 solder at an estate auction a while ago, so I use it at double that ratio to get 20:1 from pure lead, which I too have a lot of. Maybe he'll get lucky too.

[muskeg13]

SIMPLE and QUICK solution, although not cheap, is to go buy lead-free plumbing solder, which nowadays is about 95% tin, (which is why it's not cheap). Any hardware store has it. Mix about 1 pound solder to 20 pounds pure lead. Lucky me, I bought about 45 pounds of the old 50-50 solder at an estate auction a while ago, so I use it at double that ratio to get 20:1 from pure lead.

Ditto!! Keep it simple. For what it's worth for free internet advice:

Pure lead and tin 20:1 works splendidly with a good lube like Alox or Lee Liquid Lube at pistol velocities. You didn't state your "pure" lead source, but plumbing lead, roof flashing and cable sheathing is considered essentially pure lead. Anything else will probably have some small amounts of hardening agents, like tin and antimony, which is a good thing and won't hurt. If you find pewter to use as tin or resort to lead-free solder, you can treat them as being essentially pure tin for your purposes. Don't get tripped up over scientifically exact alloy formulas. Hard enough at low-moderate velocities is absolutely good enough.

You must slug the bores of all the guns you're going to shoot cast boolits in, and be sure to size whatever you cast at no less than the bore measurement to 0.003" over, NEVER under. 0.002" over is a good rule of thumb. Sizing dimensions and adequate lube is much more important than alloy hardness.

I've cast for almost 50 years and have no use for water quenching or powder coating. Wheel weights and 2% tin (or a little less), pure lead and tin at a 20:1 ratio, air cooled, get the job done (if sized correctly) for almost all of my shooting needs. I even use my own lube concoctions. If the loads are expected to exceed 1400 or so, I use gas checks and have experienced no leading up to 2300.

The one thing that might drive you to need a harder alloy is how well your semi-auto firearms feed cast boolits. I've never had a problem with any of my .45 ACPs, but do need hard alloy in the few 10mms I have or the boolits sometimes get hung up on the feed ramps. Start simple, and work from there.

[oldhenry]

I don't know how much pure lead you have, but keep in mind that some members have plenty of COWW ingots & would welcome some pure lead to alloy @ 50/50+2%tin. They would be happy to change out your pure lead for equal amounts of COWW alloy.

The SAS section is the place to help you out.

[Rickf1985]

The OP has not posted on this thread since the two posts he made on the first day almost a month ago. He has not been on the site for the last week. Pretty sure we can stop running in circles on this one. :roll::roll:

[Swineherd]

I cast and shoot powder coated pure lead in tame 45/70 and 45acp both. I mean, I can't tell by tasting it, but Rotometals sold it to me as pure, so...