Powder coated bullet leading bbl

[Shuz]

Bullet is the NOE 260-118RF in plain base.
Powders are Smokes traffic purple and Smokes flat black.
Both covered very well, at least as well as the RCBS 25-120 that doesn't lead, but used a gas check.
Load is 12g of 2400 and WW large rifle primer for std or mag.
The NOE flat based bullet leads profusely, but the RCBS 25-120 gas checked does not.
Why?

[Shuz]

Surely somebody has a theory about what is going on here!��

[steve urquell]

Post up what size you are sizing your boolits to.

Also disassemble a loaded crimped round and measure your boolit to see if your crimp is swaging the boolit down in size

[gwpercle]

The gas check protects the boolit base ... Powder coating does not .

Anytime I load rifle boolits at over 900 fps ... a gas check is used .

The Gas Check can be your friend ... do not fear them , use them !
Gary

[Rapier]

I always slug every barrel, never guess, never use any GCs any more and load to 2,700 fps with no leading in rifles including ARs, and with .43" groups with the 358 RCBS 200. With the plain base at higher velocity, i double coat, base up, in a 1" deep hardware cloth box, upside down so the base is double coated.I use Eastwood Gloss Black chrome plate. Alloy is 70 ww-20 lino-10 mag shot, high temp to alloy., then water dropped out of the mould for a 20+ bh.
Shot this bullet in silhouette competition fr a few decades.
With a plain base, I found that the alloy should be hard, the coating should be baked then redcoated, baked, then sized to the exact groove diameter. I use a taper crimp die for best accuracy, to prevent resizing by scraping and I do not crimp bottle neck rifle bullets past straight, when expanding necks. Now if you load coated bullets you must expand the neck to retain the coating. Suggest you Seat and Crimp as two stages.

[Shuz]

I am sizing to. 2585 in a custom push thru Lee type sizer.
This size works well with my RCBS 25-120 that wears agas check. With this RCBS mould I get no leading.

[Wheelguns 1961]

It is possible that your brass is swaging your bases down in size (as Steve Urquell suggested). It is much harder to swage down a gas check. Pull the bullet on a loaded round and measure the base. This will cause leading.

[Smoke4320]

Since you have 2 bullets coated one with check and one without and only getting leading with the non checked bullet that kind of puts coating and gun issues to the back burner
I would also look at the non checked bullet for a sizing down when seating. Easly confirmed by pulling several seated bulled and confirming OD.
Please get back to us with info afterward (either way. what to get you fixed up)
Thanks

[almar]

It is possible that your brass is swaging your bases down in size (as Steve Urquell suggested). It is much harder to swage down a gas check. Pull the bullet on a loaded round and measure the base. This will cause leading.

I have personally experienced this problem and only found out when i measured a pulled bullet, couldn't figure out the problem i had with accuracy until i did that.

[Shuz]

It is possible that your brass is swaging your bases down in size (as Steve Urquell suggested). It is much harder to swage down a gas check. Pull the bullet on a loaded round and measure the base. This will cause leading.
I pulled a bullet and it measured .2567. Way too small! There in lies my problem.


I loaded some .261 bullets in cases that were fired but not sized and the leading was non-existent!
Thanks for the tips!

[Smoke4320]

Glad Its solved. happy hunting :)
.

[Wheelguns 1961]

Look into NOE expander inserts. They basically turn a Lee universal sizing die into an M-die type expander. There has been plenty written about them on here, so I will not go into it again, except to say that I use them religiously. Glad you figured it out.

[almar]

I made an expander AND annealed, problem solved.

[Shuz]

Will the NOE expander fit into the Lyman M die that I already have?

[Wheelguns 1961]

Will the NOE expander fit into the Lyman M die that I already have?

Are you already using an M-die, yet the bullets are being sized down? No, the Noe expander is designed to work with the Lee universal expanding die. I think the Lee dies are about $12. That is about what I paid for the last one.

[Shuz]

Yes, I am using the Lyman m die with a 25 cal plug and it evidently doesn't expand the neck enuff!

[Wheelguns 1961]

Yes, I am using the Lyman m die with a 25 cal plug and it evidently doesn't expand the neck enuff!

I used to use the Lyman m-dies until I measured my 45 colt m-die. It measured .448”. To me, it should have measured .450” or greater. That is why I switched.

[Shuz]

Is that the Lee part number 90798?

[Wheelguns 1961]

Is that the Lee part number 90798?

I believe that is the one.

[William Yanda]

Powder coat leading??? Heresy!

The other part of the equation is the weapon involved.

Tell us more.

[Wolftracker]

I always use a gas check and an alloy that is hard enough for the velocity. Usually add some super hard to Wheel Weight alloy and water drop them from the mold for rifle ammo and size them to the stated caliber after coating rather than oversize to the stated caliber. You can shoot PC bullets like this to higher velocities with little to no leading but still not to what you would jacketed bullets.

[Shuz]

Folks I am trying to shoot a NOE 260 118rf in a Remington 700 .25-06. This NOE design is a plane base design so NO gas check.
I found that the RCBS .25-06 seating die is squeezing my bullet down from .261+ to .257. I am trying to prevent this sizing down by heat treating the bullet. I am currently waiting for the quenched bullets to harden up to see if this will cure the problem.

[rockrat]

You might try a 260 Rem or 6.5 Creedmoor die for seating. The crimp portion of your 25-06 seating die might be sizing the boolits down is why I suggested the 260/6.5 seating die.

[Soundguy]

I'd trust gas check and good lube over paint any day.. Heck.. you could gas check..paint it AND lube it and get whatever magical benefits happen with the paint.. plus the proven stuff for the lube and gas check. As for your setup..it's apparrent that the rifling and or combionation of the components is allowing your paint to fail..if you even are painting the base. Perhaps try the paint and a gas check...

[Shuz]

I'd trust gas check and good lube over paint any day.. Heck.. you could gas check..paint it AND lube it and get whatever magical benefits happen with the paint.. plus the proven stuff for the lube and gas check. As for your setup..it's apparrent that the rifling and or combionation of the components is allowing your paint to fail..if you even are painting the base. Perhaps try the paint and a gas check...
Perhaps you missed the fact that this bullet is PLAIN BASED and thus there is no room for a gas check!

[Shuz]

I think that a 260 Rem seat die could be an option to try, or maybe try my .250 Sav seat die. It may not squeeze as much!
I wish I had a 260 Rem die.

[Wheelguns 1961]

Hardening up your alloy as you describe could be enough to stop the swaging.

[Shuz]

Hardening up your alloy as you describe could be enough to stop the swaging.

You are spot on. Hardening from Saeco 7 to Saeco 10 did the trick. My bullets are now the same diameter as pulled from a seated round as they were before being seated.
Now I have to see how they shoot!

[Soundguy]

Perhaps you missed the fact that this bullet is PLAIN BASED and thus there is no room for a gas check!

That's why there are plain base gas checks. I missed nothing. You can get the thin aluminum ones from Sage's

Perhaps before telling someone they missed something..you do some research!

[JFoster48386]

The gas check protects the boolit base ... Powder coating does not .

Anytime I load rifle boolits at over 900 fps ... a gas check is used .

The Gas Check can be your friend ... do not fear them , use them !
Gary

This is how we do it as well...

Jon.

[Soundguy]

This is how we do it as well...

Jon.

Very much agreed.