Why I REFUSE to use Paypal Friends and Family

[Ohio Rusty]

There was a listmember over on one of the 18th century lists that bought $250 worth of ranger gear off of a seller. The seller kept the money, never sent the goods and blocked the buyer from all contact. The Buyer used Friends and Family and now he is totally S.O.L. ..... If he would have used the Goods and Services option, Paypal would have refunded the whole amount back to the buyer. Everyone is so worried about the extra couple dollars fees extra. When I use Paypal, I include a little extra to cover any extra fees so I can use the protection of the Goods and Services option. I want to protect every purchase .... no matter if it is a inexpensive book, a boolit mould or a $2200 rifle. If the seller refuses my paypal choice of payment -- NO SALE !! That should be a red flag to EVERYONE on this list to not do business with that individual that will only accept Paypal Friends and Family. There is so much treachery and hijacking of items happening now with sales of everything on the 'net, Goods and Services is my only way to protect my purchase. Even a Postal Money order isn't always safe. Someone you don't know and never met could cash that check and never send you anything. How do you know the Seller on the other end is real and not using fake screen names ?? What a hassle to try and press charges against a person that may not be real.
Just my .02 cents worth
Ohio Rusty ><>

[greybuff]

i was scammed using Paypal F&F and there is no recourse. Pay the little extra and be safe.

[huntersdog]

Many people will refund Goods and Services payments as with the new tax laws reporting you to the IRS for sales over $600 per year..

Many don't care if they send the funds back to you, someone else is line who usually will buy it.

[fatelk]

There's another side to this now, besides the fees. I've been helping an older friend get rid of some of his stuff, and I will take paypal for the convenience of the buyer if they want it, but I strongly prefer F&F. Why? I don't care about the couple dollars in fees; the problem is the new tax reporting, where I'll end up having to pay income tax on something that wasn't even my sale. Regular paypal is subject to the reporting, where F&F isn't.

I don't have a problem with paying taxes, but I don't want the hassle of reporting for helping someone else sell something that isn't even mine. There's always some risk, and the small stuff I've sold on here, I haven't had any issue with even taking personal checks from people who have been on here for 5-15 years.

On the other hand, like you I would also be really leery of sending hundreds to a complete stranger with no recourse whatsoever. It's all a judgement call.

[huntersdog]

There's another side to this now, besides the fees. I've been helping an older friend get rid of some of his stuff, and I will take paypal for the convenience of the buyer if they want it, but I strongly prefer F&F. Why? I don't care about the couple dollars in fees; the problem is the new tax reporting, where I'll end up having to pay income tax on something that wasn't even my sale. Regular paypal is subject to the reporting, where F&F isn't.

I don't have a problem with paying taxes, but I don't want the hassle of reporting for helping someone else sell something that isn't even mine. There's always some risk, and the small stuff I've sold on here, I haven't had any issue with even taking personal checks from people who have been on here for 5-15 years.

On the other hand, I would be really leery of sending hundreds to a complete stranger with no recourse whatsoever. It's all a judgement call.

I think times of MO and checks are going to coming back.

[2TM101]

Paypal Friends & Family is for friends you personally know - and family. It was never meant for regular business.

[fatelk]

Paypal Friends & Family is for friends you personally know - and family. It was never meant for regular business.

Correct in a sense. It's a personal transfer, basically like cash, with no legal strings, protections, or recourse. It's a free service and protection isn't free, that's why there's a fee for regular paypal. If you use the "friends and family" paypal, you have to realize that it's much like sending cash in an envelope; you assume the risk and better trust whoever you're dealing with.

For smaller amounts on a forum with another member who's been here for years, I'm OK with that risk. I personally have no problem with using it for limited transactions as a convenient, useful service.

For hundreds of dollars with a complete stranger? No way.

[Shawlerbrook]

Agree with fatelk. On a site like this with longtime members with a great record no problem. If I am not comfortable with the seller, I am not buying no matter what the payment method.

[brokeasajoke]

I'm selling a bunch of micrometers on another site. While I prefer PP F&F most have been sending personal checks which is fine by me. PP is anti second amendment rights so keep that in mind.

[Finster101]

I have used F&F on this sight frequently with no issues. I also have sent and accepted personal checks from members. I am perfectly fine with the seller not shipping till the check clears. I will not stand in line to buy a money order when the same can be accomplished with a check. You have to go somewhere to deposit it or cash it either way. If a MO is the only form of payment accepted I simply pass on the item or on this forum there are a couple of members that want MOs only so I don't even look at what is posted.

[Jack Russel]

I was also scammed that way on another site. Never again.

[rancher1913]

money orders are a royal pain to get around here so i usually ask if the seller will take a personal check but hold shipping until it clears, suppose even that way i could get scammed.

[Plate plinker]

I think times of MO and checks are going to coming back.

Doubtful, but I wouldn't mind. The younger generations often do not even have a checkbook or probably wouldn't even know how to write a check.

[Kraschenbirn]

Call me an 'old grump' if you will but, several years ago, I was burned on a PayPal screw-up and haven't used any form of PayPal since. Will accept personal checks from long-standing members here or from individuals I know personally but, otherwise, it's cash money or USPS MO.

Bill

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Why I REFUSE to use Paypal Friends and Family

When I use Paypal, I include a little extra to cover any extra fees so I can use the protection of the Goods and Services option. I want to protect every purchase .... no matter if it is a inexpensive book, a boolit mould or a $2200 rifle.

>>>SNIP
Ohio Rusty, Yes, I do agree, especially with new members, but it isn't about the fees.
...as huntersdog points out, many of us old timers "are not in business" and are just selling accumulated personal hobby tools and such, that we no longer use and won't use PP Goods and Services option because the new tax laws where PP is required to report to the IRS for sales over $600 per year.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I was also scammed that way on another site. Never again.
I agree with you
.
...and welcome to the forum
I enjoyed reading your 32 posts, all short and concise one line posts.
Are you new to casting?
Have a good Day.

[schutzen-jager]

quit using PP 3 years back - totally anti gun + they will freeze your money for over a year if they do not like anything gun related you are selling - friends + family now called trusted person, only a fool will utilize it with any unknown !

[kerplode]

I think times of MO and checks are going to coming back.

Boomer Pay sucks too. The jerkoffs at the USPS lost a MO I sent to a guy for a part I purchased on Gunbroker and it was a total PITA. Dude reported me as a "no communication" non-paying bidder after a couple days even though I told him via email what was going on. Then, it cost me an additional $18 to place a trace on the MO so that I could get a refund. Their helpful suggestion for the future...Send it registered mail for an additional $whatever plus having to listen to some old guy crow about having to sign for it. Yeah, nah.

I would have much rather just paid him with my Mastercard using GB's checkout process, but like everyone else, he's trying to skate on paying fees while also hiding his business revenue from taxation.

At this point, if someone doesn't take a CC payment, I'm out. I don't care what you have or how cheap it is.

[bedbugbilly]

I have no problem trusting long time members here on this site, whether selling or buying - I will take payment through PP, but much prefer to receive it as F & F. Thank the current Administration for that and their requirement of banks and others to report over $600 . . .. and I hope everyone remembers such things when it come time to vote.

As far as "scams" - IMHO, it is getting worse, and unfortunately, there are probably members isn any site, regardless of what the site is, that fall into the category of "bottom feeders" who are less than honest. We have noticed a big increase in scam e-mails over the past year. Surrised? Not really . . . . dean influx of 10 million + illegals and some of them are bound to want to supplement their income from the govt. that the taxpayers are paying for..

If you have a gut feeling about something being a possible scam . .. . walk away from it, or if you wish to use PP but are uneasy using the F & F, contact the seller and let them know how you want to pay for it. If you can't come to an agreement, then move on and forget it. Nobody wants to get scammed, and if it doesn't feels right, trust your instincts.

As much as I dislike having to use PP, based on their anti 2nd Amendment stance as well as their woke beliefs, sometimes as a seller or a buyer, you might have to. Again . . a personal choice. Personally, I'm old and I still have faith in people . . . unless my gut feeling tells me otherwise.

[Froogal]

quit using PP 3 years back - totally anti gun + they will freeze your money for over a year if they do not like anything gun related you are selling - friends + family now called trusted person, only a fool will utilize it with any unknown !

I quit using PP quite a few years ago. Never had any issues, but I simply lost my trust, and I don't do Ebay either for the same reason.

[HumptyDumpty]

I simply won't use PayPal for anything; I like cash, checks, money orders, gold bullion, etc.

[dcs12345]

When I use Paypal, I include a little extra to cover any extra fees so I can use the protection of the Goods and Services option. I want to protect every purchase .... no matter if it is a inexpensive book, a boolit mould or a $2200 rifle. If the seller refuses my paypal choice of payment -- NO SALE !! That should be a red flag to EVERYONE on this list to not do business with that individual that will only accept Paypal Friends and Family.
Ohio Rusty ><>

G&S will may not cover you for guns (and some gun related stuff)if they figure out what the item is. ….you will be SOL since they will say it is against their terms of service.

[fg-machine]

Some of the logic here is rather off , so you are worried about the tax man so you want to use friends and family only .
Very bad logic , it does not matter what type of transaction you use , once you breech that $600 limit every transaction is reported.
The irs does not care if it's goods and service or friends and family.
All they care about is that $600 limit .

Don't believe me just because I say it , ask PayPal , your bank , the Irs or any cpa with an iq over 65 and find out for yourself

[Markopolo]

I use PayPal for one reason.. post office is 1/2 day trip. In the winter is sometimes out of the question. But that’s the difference… most of u guys are lower 48 and are used to everything at yer fingertips.. cost of living remote I guess. I take the cost..

Marko

[white eagle]

pay pal is instant money
you are going to have bad sellers with every form of payment
fact of life, some people steal and are worthless
due diligence always trumps carelessness

[schutzen-jager]

I quit using PP quite a few years ago. Never had any issues, but I simply lost my trust, and I don't do Ebay either for the same reason.

totally agree about EBAY also after 20+ years of selling there -

[fatelk]

Some of the logic here is rather off , so you are worried about the tax man so you want to use friends and family only .
Very bad logic , it does not matter what type of transaction you use , once you breech that $600 limit every transaction is reported.
The irs does not care if it's goods and service or friends and family.
All they care about is that $600 limit .

Don't believe me just because I say it , ask PayPal , your bank , the Irs or any cpa with an iq over 65 and find out for yourself

Incorrect. PayPal personal transfer (friends and family) is not subject to the new rules. This is spelled out very clearly.

[HATCH]

I have never gotten a 1099 from Paypal and I only use it Friends and Family.

Friends and Family should be treated just like cash.
Same with CashAp, or Zelle.

I personally accept PP F&F, CashAp, Zelle, Venmo, ALL money orders, personal check, bank check and even good old cash.

I have been around a long time and have 100's of verified customers. For me your reputation is all that matters.
Talk to anyone and you would have a extremely hard time finding someone that had a bad experience.

[schutzen-jager]

the 1099's ran into some problems, but the IRS states that they will be going out soon to generate tax revenues on any sales $600.00 + over -

[Handloader109]

Yes, the rules for reporting were delayed for another year (2023 tax year) but are supposedly in affect for this current tax year, 2024. So expect to see them in January 2025 for this year. You can always report expenses against any 1099 money. But I get it. Going from $20,000 down to $600 in a year is a big change. $6k would have been more reasonable, but when is the federal government reasonable? I use PayPal as needed, F&F for just that. Cashapp and venmo for folks I know or receiving for business, and they are standing in front of me. Checks yep. I hate MOs. They aren't any safer than just sending cash. And a pain to cash. My bank will accept, stupid PO never has any cash.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[fatelk]

the 1099's ran into some problems, but the IRS states that they will be going out soon to generate tax revenues on any sales $600.00 + over -

Not to get political, but I have a suspicion that they really want to wait until after the election, but maybe I’m just cynical. I think there are many millions of people out there that are going to be shocked when they start getting 1099’s in the mail.

Like I said, I don’t have a problem with paying taxes when I owe it, I just don’t want the hassle of dealing with more forms when I don’t.

[huntersdog]

G&S will may not cover you for guns (and some gun related stuff)if they figure out what the item is. ….you will be SOL since they will say it is against their terms of service.

I think most any gun related items, you won't be covered.


Posted on
‎Apr-17-2019 11:25 AM

I have been selling gun parts using paypal for 15 years. Today my account was limited for violation of the user agreement.

I am now barred from paypal for life, and my funds are being held for 180 days. There is no recourse for me.

I have always been careful to not use paypal for the purchase or sale of firearms and ammunition.

The open-ended policy against "certain firearm parts and accessories", must be my violation.

What exactly are these "certain parts and accessories", if it were made clear I could have avoided this mess.

For those of you who are curious, I do trigger jobs, and sell picatinny rails.

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Disputes-and-Limitations/What-firearms-parts-are-prohibited/td-p/1791640

[huntersdog]

Some of the logic here is rather off , so you are worried about the tax man so you want to use friends and family only .
Very bad logic , it does not matter what type of transaction you use , once you breech that $600 limit every transaction is reported.
The irs does not care if it's goods and service or friends and family.
All they care about is that $600 limit .

Don't believe me just because I say it , ask PayPal , your bank , the Irs or any cpa with an iq over 65 and find out for yourselfWhat was that about IQ?



Beginning January 1, 2024, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) implemented new reporting requirements for payments received for goods and services, which will lower the reporting threshold to $600 USD for the 2024 tax season from 2023’s threshold of $20,000 USD and 200 transactions. Here’s some more detail:

1099-K Threshold Change:

This new Threshold Change is only for payments received for goods and services transactions, so this doesn’t include things like paying your family or friends back using PayPal for dinner, gifts, shared trips, etc.
This change was introduced in the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021, which amended some sections of the Internal Revenue Code to require Third-Party Settlement Organizations (TPSOs), like PayPal, to report goods and services transactions paid to customers with $600 USD or more in annual gross sales on 1099-K forms. Previously, a 1099-K is only required when a user receives more than $20,000 USD in goods and services transactions and more than 200 goods and services transactions in a calendar year.
PayPal tax reporting is required when the sender identifies the product as goods and services to the IRS, even if it was a mistake. This requirement applies once you receive $600 USD or more from this type of payment. Although this transaction is reportable by PayPal, it’s possible that the transaction is not taxable. It’s always best to speak with a tax professional for any specific concerns you may have.

https://www.paypal.com/us/cshelp/article/will-paypal-report-my-sales-to-the-irs-help543

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I wonder if we'll still be arguing about these types of things after Biden's Administration (2nd term) goes ahead with the Digital Dollar program?

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/digital-dollar/

[fatelk]

I went back to school after the meltdown of '08. There were all types there, and many of the other students were on various programs and state aid. I remember talking to one guy who was telling me all about how he worked a part-time job but was careful to keep his reported income below a certain amount to not jeopardize his welfare benefits, and he worked another under-the-table job trimming trees. His wife and he were not legally married even though they had several kids together, because if they got married she would lose her welfare benefits and food stamps, and she had some kind of under-the-table cash income as well. He had all the angles covered to maximize milking the system.

It was an eye opener for me; I had no idea that so many people used the system that badly. As much as I don't like the idea of a cashless system and the authorities involved in everyone's business, it would have a lot less of an effect on me than it would on those living on the fringes of society.

[deltaenterprizes]

I get charged a cash advance fee and raise interest by my credit card company if I use F&F so I pay the fee and use Goods and Services.

[shooter bob]

A cashless system is the end of America as we know it. The government will know every cent you possess . Try putting crypto under your mattress in your safe to have as an emergency fund .and big brother doesn’t need to know how much cash a person keeps available at his fingertips. I can’t believe anyone would welcome a cashless American