Best Alloy for BIG game (Revolver)

[TexasAg11]

Planning a trip to Africa for plains game (Eland/Kudu/Wildebeest). Right now Id like to use cast bullets in both my 454 and 500 JRH. I’m thinking 320 WFN @1500 fps and 380-400 LFN @ 1400 fps. Impact velocities could be as low as 1200 fps at 100 yards.

Rimrock, Montana BW, Missouri BW, Oregon Trail, and Matts all have a good reputation but use slightly different alloys and HTs.

Question… with bullet integrity and penetration #1, which of these offerings might be best suited for the job? Happy for other recommendations as well.

Thanks!

[Bigslug]

Read the "Bullet Information" section in Montana BW's site. They clearly understand the problems involved. He mentions using both Lyman #2 of 15BHN and what they call "HT" for hunting. You want to avoid buying on hardness number alone, as linotype and other high-antimony mixes can be brittle, but heat treated options can be as hard, or harder, and considerably tougher.

I would contact them, mention your purpose and ask for clarification on what their 22 BHN alloy is. Since you aren't casting your own and don't have full control over all the variables, I would advise to at least get your cylinder throat diameter (via pin gauge) and barrel groove diameter (via slugging) and pass that info on with your query, and would also strongly recommend gas checks. My guess would be they could knock something out specific, if their standard listings aren't already where you need to be.

You'll hopefully get some feedback from those who have been there and done that, but my inclination would be to go a little lighter and faster on the .454 - 275 to 300 grains - and save the 325's for a Cape buff hunt. Penetration won't be lacking.

[TexasAg11]

Not a lot of feedback so I will ask a different question... is Hardball Alloy (6% Antimony) at 16-18 BHN suitable for my purposes outlined above? OR... is this going to be too brittle on big bone impacts? I know it works perfectly on deer/hog sized game but these animals will be in the Elk/Moose/Bison size range.

[TexasAg11]

Appreciate the response and insights. MBW does look like a very compelling option with their HT process.

[Uncle Grinch]

Take a look at this… it may give you some insight.

https://www.johnlinebaughcustomsixguns.com/writings

[HWooldridge]

I have some big game experience with the 44 mag and 45 Colt but nothing larger than deer and big feral hogs. I also use standard weight Keith style cast bullets, usually in straight linotype or a hard alloy. I subscribe to Elmer Keith's ideas that expansion is not reliable at handgun velocities, regardless of how fast they are pushed. I have occasionally shot more than once but never more than three times on one animal, and most drop with one round.

FWIW, I have only noticed brittle fracturing from linotype on hard objects like rock or metal plate - big bones don't seem to have much negative effect. I also prefer that the projectile penetrate and punch through, in the belief that two leaking holes is better than one. With that said, a buddy of mine utterly ventilated a large feral hog with some similar loads and it still ran off before dying - I don't recall the shot count but it may have been hit 10-12 times. He was fortunate it did not charge while he was banging away.

My son works cattle for a living and has killed injured steers with a 45 Colt. His loads are standard velocity with a 225 gr soft lead swaged bullet - maybe 10-12 BHN (but hotter than "cowboy" loads). Of course, the range is only a few yards but those loads will always punch through one side of a cow skull. They never exit, and he has needed to shoot more than one time on several occasions, so I would consider that performance marginal on that size animal. He wants to upgrade to a .44 mag due to his experiences.

All I can say is that Africa is a whole 'nother ball game...

[dverna]

I cannot offer advice but envy your adventure. Frankly, I am too cowardly (wise?) to hunt anything that can mess me up with a pistol...and I am better pistol shot than a rifleman.

I know the PH is there to back a person up so the risk is reduced.

I know a guy, Glen A. Catt, who has been to Africa a few times and Africa was the highlight of his hunting adventures. He wrote a book "Out there Somewhere" about his hunting experiences. Glen has a hunting camp kitty corner to me, and his son owns another camp on my eastern boundary. You will never forget your trip.

Anyway, good luck!!

[TexasAg11]

That one is always a great read. Thanks for sharing

[TexasAg11]

I have some big game experience with the 44 mag and 45 Colt but nothing larger than deer and big feral hogs. I also use standard weight Keith style cast bullets, usually in straight linotype or a hard alloy. I subscribe to Elmer Keith's ideas that expansion is not reliable at handgun velocities, regardless of how fast they are pushed. I have occasionally shot more than once but never more than three times on one animal, and most drop with one round.

FWIW, I have only noticed brittle fracturing from linotype on hard objects like rock or metal plate - big bones don't seem to have much negative effect. I also prefer that the projectile penetrate and punch through, in the belief that two leaking holes is better than one. With that said, a buddy of mine utterly ventilated a large feral hog with some similar loads and it still ran off before dying - I don't recall the shot count but it may have been hit 10-12 times. He was fortunate it did not charge while he was banging away.

My son works cattle for a living and has killed injured steers with a 45 Colt. His loads are standard velocity with a 225 gr soft lead swaged bullet - maybe 10-12 BHN (but hotter than "cowboy" loads). Of course, the range is only a few yards but those loads will always punch through one side of a cow skull. They never exit, and he has needed to shoot more than one time on several occasions, so I would consider that performance marginal on that size animal. He wants to upgrade to a .44 mag due to his experiences.

All I can say is that Africa is a whole 'nother ball game...

My first reaction is that he doesn’t need a 44 mag, he just needs an adequate 452 bullet. Probably anything would be better than the bullet he is using.

[Delkal]

Not a lot of feedback so I will ask a different question... is Hardball Alloy (6% Antimony) at 16-18 BHN suitable for my purposes outlined above? OR... is this going to be too brittle on big bone impacts? I know it works perfectly on deer/hog sized game but these animals will be in the Elk/Moose/Bison size range.

Hardball is not suitable for game and IMO should only be used for paper. They figured it out over 100 years ago that when you use an equivalent amount of Tin /Antimony you get an intermetallic alloy that is superior to either alone. The legendary Lyman #2 is 5/5/90 and is BHN 15 and is probably the toughest alloy for game. If you feel you need to get to the 16-18 BHN range use a 6-6-88 alloy. The cost to add 3% tin to hardball alloy is inconsequential for hunting bullets. Especially if the game can bite back.

[HWooldridge]

My first reaction is that he doesn’t need a 44 mag, he just needs an adequate 452 bullet. Probably anything would be better than the bullet he is using.

I agree with you - he uses that 225 gr load on hogs and it’s a good killer, but cattle are much bigger.

[Blkpwdrbuff]

Hopefully six shot checks in.
He has been to Africa and hunted the game you mentioned with a Freedom Arms .41 magnum.
He is a wealth of information about the hunting you want to do.
Blkpwdrbuff

[Edward]

Not a lot of feedback so I will ask a different question... is Hardball Alloy (6% Antimony) at 16-18 BHN suitable for my purposes outlined above? OR... is this going to be too brittle on big bone impacts? I know it works perfectly on deer/hog sized game but these animals will be in the Elk/Moose/Bison size range.

That's why learning to cast your own is important or have someone you trust do it . And practice with your yardages so you know before the hunt happens ! I have several different alloys on hand an carry options for yardage /game encountered ,why casting is as important as your rifle selection .Why you carry more than one gun !/Ed

[Bigslug]

I'm with Delkal in thinking that Lyman #2, with a gas check for your purposes and intense loadings, would more than fit the bill. I'd expect slight compression of the nose on impact, but very little in the way of actual deformation - especially with LBT-style bullets, which are shaped to be pretty structurally stout already.

[Thumbcocker]

Acww at 1400 worked for me on Impala, Gemsbuck, and Kudu. Full disclosure the Kudu was finished by the PH with a .375 neck shot due to me not factoring in the angle. Ruger hunter model .44 magnum. No boolits were recovered. 265 grain plain base solid point clone of the Lyman devestator.

[cherokeetracker]

My first reaction is that he doesn’t need a 44 mag, he just needs an adequate 452 bullet. Probably anything would be better than the bullet he is using.

Agreed. I have seen cast skid and turn directions on big Bovines. Even once with a 475 Linebaugh.
The design need to be good and the alloy right. I have seen Jbullets in HP close up not penetrate much. I have also seen them come apart.

[gc45]

If this helps, I killed three large Bison using hand cast boolits made from #2 Lyman. Neither boolit fractured, both mushroomed perfectly with velosity being 1500 for all three.

[cherokeetracker]

Planning a trip to Africa for plains game (Eland/Kudu/Wildebeest). Right now Id like to use cast bullets in both my 454 and 500 JRH. I’m thinking 320 WFN @1500 fps and 380-400 LFN @ 1400 fps. Impact velocities could be as low as 1200 fps at 100 yards.

Rimrock, Montana BW, Missouri BW, Oregon Trail, and Matts all have a good reputation but use slightly different alloys and HTs.

Question… with bullet integrity and penetration #1, which of these offerings might be best suited for the job? Happy for other recommendations as well.

Thanks!

Did you get my private message?

Cherokeetracker

[Tallison1911]

Sounds like a dream hunt, I look forward to read about the results as this is on my list of bucket list hunts.

[TexasAg11]

Did you get my private message?

Cherokeetracker

Sorry, just saw your PM. Appreciate the message!

[Messy bear]

Sounds fun! Hope all goes well.
I don’t like cast at velocity’s over 1300 on big stuff unless it’s heat treated. Had a friend that took 454 moose hunting with 335 WFN’s at 1600 and brought back pieces of bullet. Alloy was supposed to be 2-6-92. Bullets that hit bone were totally destroyed. On one, the biggest chunk was 70-80 grains. I still have it somewhere. Good luck!

[sixshot]

I've made 2 hand gun trips to Africa, both were using cast bullets. I plan to make a third trip next year after my knee heals up from a replacement surgery.
On my last trip I took a Freedom Arms 41 magnum using 250 gr WFN cast & an 8.5" Ruger bisley using 282 gr cast HP's & 325 gr cast solids. I took 5 animals with 6 shots, probably didn't need to but I shot my Cape Buffalo twice, actually I did need to because it stood back up but it was very wobbly.
My method is a 282 gr HP is the first chamber, followed by 325 gr solids, that's in case you have to take angling shots or shots through the rump as an animal runs away. A 325 gr solid from 15-17 gr BHN alloy, powder coated & water quenched will penetrate a long ways. My first shot broke one front shoulder, & exited, missing the off shoulder but knocking the Buff down, it stood back up but wouldn't have for very long. Shot #2 was a steep angling shot in front of the left hip, through the vitals & hitting the off side shoulder. It took maybe 4 steps total. This bullet was recovered. I recovered a 282 gr HP from a large Zebra that dropped at the shot. Shot clear through a large Kudu at 82 yds, shot through a large Nyala at (I think 64 yds) with a 282 gr HP & broke both front shoulders on a big Gemsbok with a 250 gr solid with my Freedom Arms at about 55 yds. Hard alloys can get very brittle.

Dick

[TexasAg11]

Sounds fun! Hope all goes well.
I don’t like cast at velocity’s over 1300 on big stuff unless it’s heat treated. Had a friend that took 454 moose hunting with 335 WFN’s at 1600 and brought back pieces of bullet. Alloy was supposed to be 2-6-92. Bullets that hit bone were totally destroyed. On one, the biggest chunk was 70-80 grains. I still have it somewhere. Good luck!

Yikes! That is what I am trying to avoid. Of the commercial casters out there, the most suitable bullets I’ve found for the 454 are a 320, 335, and 340 grain options ranging in BHN from 18-22, and Antimony from 3%-6%. Im leaning towards the lower Antimony options in the heavier weights with a MV of 1400 for exactly the reasons you have mentioned. Estimated impact velocities of 1300-1150.

[TexasAg11]

I've made 2 hand gun trips to Africa, both were using cast bullets. I plan to make a third trip next year after my knee heals up from a replacement surgery.
On my last trip I took a Freedom Arms 41 magnum using 250 gr WFN cast & an 8.5" Ruger bisley using 282 gr cast HP's & 325 gr cast solids. I took 5 animals with 6 shots, probably didn't need to but I shot my Cape Buffalo twice, actually I did need to because it stood back up but it was very wobbly.
My method is a 282 gr HP is the first chamber, followed by 325 gr solids, that's in case you have to take angling shots or shots through the rump as an animal runs away. A 325 gr solid from 15-17 gr BHN alloy, powder coated & water quenched will penetrate a long ways. My first shot broke one front shoulder, & exited, missing the off shoulder but knocking the Buff down, it stood back up but wouldn't have for very long. Shot #2 was a steep angling shot in front of the left hip, through the vitals & hitting the off side shoulder. It took maybe 4 steps total. This bullet was recovered. I recovered a 282 gr HP from a large Zebra that dropped at the shot. Shot clear through a large Kudu at 82 yds, shot through a large Nyala at (I think 64 yds) with a 282 gr HP & broke both front shoulders on a big Gemsbok with a 250 gr solid with my Freedom Arms at about 55 yds. Hard alloys can get very brittle.

Dick

Mr Thompson thank you for sharing your experience. This is incredibly helpful and gives me confidence that I am heading down the correct path with my bullet choice. I hadn’t considered the HP cast option but if you are getting such good performance it is hard to ignore.