Wasp Rice Shot Loads: .38/.45LC

[steve urquell]

Some members had questions about my rice wasp shot loads in another thread. Decided to do a dedicated thread on it. I loaded some .45LC rice loads for my .45/.410 ADC derringer a few weeks ago. They have been very effective at close range and won't harm my siding although I did leave a 1/8" dent in one of my wood porch posts with the wad.
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So here's how I do it. (This is only for the wad cutter case. I DID NOT drill out my rice load cases) I took a .45ACP case and a .38spl case and drilled the primer hole out with a 1/4" drill bit with the case in my vise. Ground the head down on the .38 case so it would chuck up in my drillpress.
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Chucked the cases in the drillpress and ran it while holding a file against the case mouth to sharpen the case.
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Then with a rubber backing (horse stall mat) to keep from damaging the fragile sharpened end I ran the drillpress and cut my wads out of a cardboard box. I could get 10 in a .45ACP case, 15 in a .38. Took the case out of the drillpress, clamped it in my vise and punched the wads out thru the primer hole with a hex T-handle.
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Primed cases get 2gr of Bullseye. Primer flash holes were left stock/not enlarged however my .45 primers back out slightly. TiteWad(I did try), Titegroup, Unique or another fast powder would probably be fine as well. The wad gets packed down on top of the powder, case filled with rice, then wax is melted over the rice.
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Groups into paper taped across an open box from 2ft(bott) and 4ft(top). The wax shatters and the wad hits hard. Rice firmly indented the box with a few grains penetrating.
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Shooting the .38 at 2ft:
https://youtube.com/shorts/BZARHH6mJWM?feature=shared

Shooting wasps with the .45LC derringer:
https://youtube.com/shorts/AAhpTP48dF4?feature=shared

Another:
https://youtube.com/shorts/dKzC7qiK5lc?feature=shared

Fun stuff and the report is like a cap gun with the .45 and even quieter with the 6" revolver. If you have any questions ask away.

[dverna]

Neat. Too bad primers are so darn expensive.

[TNsailorman]

Nice write-up Steve. That ought to silence a few people. I used to shoot wax bullets way back in the early 60's using pretty much the same drill you used. However I never used powder, only a primer. I never enlarged the flash hole either. Later on when I tried plastic and rubber bullets, I did enlarge the flash hole. I melted ordinary canning wax about 1/2 to 3/4 inch deep and let it cool hard. Then I simply pushed unsized primed .38 Special case into the wax to create and seat a bullet. Quite accurate at 10 feet out of my then new S&W K frame. I used a cardboard box with the top cut out and folded towels ( about 3 or 4 folds ) on sticks stuck thru the box for a backstop and that worked well also. I could actually shoot the wax bullets in the house hallway. The towels simply stopped and dropped the wax bullet into the bottom of the box and I remelted them and used them again. The idea was not original to me, it came from a retired Sargeant member of the U.S. Air Force shooting team ( a good friend that is now long deceased ). james

[steve urquell]

Neat. Too bad primers are so darn expensive.

Thanks. I went to the .38 because I just ordered 7,000 Servicios Aventuras small pistol primers at $.05/ea. I'll give an update on them when I get them.

[steve urquell]

Nice write-up Steve. That ought to silence a few people. I used to shoot wax bullets way back in the early 60's using pretty much the same drill you used. However I never used powder, only a primer. I never enlarged the flash hole either. Later on when I tried plastic and rubber bullets, I did enlarge the flash hole. I melted ordinary canning wax about 1/2 to 3/4 inch deep and let it cool hard. Then I simply pushed unsized primed .38 Special case into the wax to create and seat a bullet. Quite accurate at 10 feet out of my then new S&W K frame. I used a cardboard box with the top cut out and folded towels ( about 3 or 4 folds ) on sticks stuck thru the box for a backstop and that worked well also. I could actually shoot the wax bullets in the house hallway. The towels simply stopped and dropped the wax bullet into the bottom of the box and I remelted them and used them again. The idea was not original to me, it came from a retired Sargeant member of the U.S. Air Force shooting team ( a good friend that is now long deceased ). james
Pretty neat. I didn't enlarge my primer flash holes though. The drilled case was the cardboard wad cutter and drilled out only to allow you to punch the cardboard wads out. My rice cap wax is ~1/8" thick.

[dverna]

Thanks. I went to the .38 because I just ordered 7,000 Servicios Aventuras small pistol primers at $.05/ea. I'll give an update on them when I get them.

Looking forward to seeing that. The only revolvers I have are .38/.357. But carrying around a like new 686 seems silly. Might need to find a beater for a "wasp weapon". LOL

My home is log sided so need to evaluate how the "shot" affects the stained wood. I have lots of rice for "shot".

You just added another thing on my list of gun stuff to get done this year!

[steve urquell]

Looking forward to seeing that. The only revolvers I have are .38/.357. But carrying around a like new 686 seems silly. Might need to find a beater for a "wasp weapon". LOL

My home is log sided so need to evaluate how the "shot" affects the stained wood. I have lots of rice for "shot".

You just added another thing on my list of gun stuff to get done this year!

HA! Glad to be an enabler lol. Here's what a .45 did to my porch post from 12" away taking out a wasp. The wad indented it, the rest is just marks. I need to touch up paint all the wasp hits soon before the wife finds out.
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[15meter]

HA! Glad to be an enabler lol. Here's what a .45 did to my porch post from 12" away taking out a wasp. The wad indented it, the rest is just marks. I need to touch up paint all the wasp hits soon before the wife finds out.
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Shoot them "on the wing" and you won't have this problem [smilie=l:

[rockrat]

Try Grits instead of rice.

[steve urquell]

Shoot them "on the wing" and you won't have this problem [smilie=l:
Ha! I have shot some on the wing but I had this one dead to rights so he got blasted on the post.

Try Grits instead of rice.
I have about 5lbs of old rice to go thru then I may try them. Are they better in some way?

[dverna]

Steve, just won an auction for a S&W 14-3 to be my wasp gun. $350.

Got to thinking about loads and want to tap your knowledge.

That "dent" from the wad has me concerned so was wondering if a small tuft of dacron (like used for reduced rifle loads) would do the trick to keep the powder and rice separated. Easy enough to cut 1/2" squares, and stuff them in, and the dacron will not leave a mark. Or do you think the wax seal over the rice in is causing the dent?

[rockrat]

Grits is finer and not as much mass, so should leave less of a mark. I use Walters wads as an over payload seal. Still should take out a wasp.

[Delkal]

How loud are these loads? Does everyone immediately know you are shooting a pistol in your back yard?

[steve urquell]

Steve, just won an auction for a S&W 14-3 to be my wasp gun. $350.

Got to thinking about loads and want to tap your knowledge.

That "dent" from the wad has me concerned so was wondering if a small tuft of dacron (like used for reduced rifle loads) would do the trick to keep the powder and rice separated. Easy enough to cut 1/2" squares, and stuff them in, and the dacron will not leave a mark. Or do you think the wax seal over the rice in is causing the dent?

Whoa, a dedicated wasp gun. You're serious lol. I thought the dent was from the wad but guess it could have been the wax. I'll load some up tomorrow with something softer and see.

I shot a gallon water jug and the wad penetrated it sideways so I assumed the post dent was from the wad.

[steve urquell]

Grits is finer and not as much mass, so should leave less of a mark. I use Walters wads as an over payload seal. Still should take out a wasp.
Thanks. i will try them.



How loud are these loads? Does everyone immediately know you are shooting a pistol in your back yard?
Sounds like a cap gun. The videos are close to dead on.

I live in the woods. No neighbors within 300yds.

[dverna]

Getting geeked up about this. After reading the post by TNsailorman, I wonder if I need any powder at all. I would be OK with an effective range of about 8 feet. That would eliminate the over powder wad (if that is what causes the "dent" Steve got).

"I shot a gallon water jug and the wad penetrated it sideways, so I assumed the post dent was from the wad." Makes sense it is the wad...not good. Surprising a cardboard wad could penetrate a milk jug.

Following up on rockrat's post, they make a .030" vegetable wad that costs $20/1000. I like the idea of something biodegradable. It might not have as much energy either.

We use a couple of Bug-A-Salt guns for flies. They have range of about 3 ft, but they are useless on wasps. And we get a lot of wasps.

[steve urquell]

Getting geeked up about this. After reading the post by TNsailorman, I wonder if I need any powder at all. I would be OK with an effective range of about 8 feet. That would eliminate the over powder wad (if that is what causes the "dent" Steve got).

"I shot a gallon water jug and the wad penetrated it sideways, so I assumed the post dent was from the wad." Makes sense it is the wad...not good. Surprising a cardboard wad could penetrate a milk jug.

Following up on rockrat's post, they make a .030" vegetable wad that costs $20/1000. I like the idea of something biodegradable. It might not have as much energy either.

We use a couple of Bug-A-Salt guns for flies. They have range of about 3 ft, but they are useless on wasps. And we get a lot of wasps.

I would say you probably need the powder. My loads are an instant kill at 2ft. Move out to 4-6 ft and it's a knock down instead with the wasp alive. That wad dent was straight on 12" away from the post. I could have backed up 12" and it would have been fine.

[Texas by God]

Do you prefer long grain rice or the “skeet size” jasmine rice?��
Oh my goodness, Don! I want a $350 K38! What a score!

[HarryT]

Us cheapskates use a blowgun to take out flying insects. Just think how much it’s going to cost to shoot down millions of cicadas that will be hatching soon.

[dverna]

I would say you probably need the powder. My loads are an instant kill at 2ft. Move out to 4-6 ft and it's a knock down instead with the wasp alive. That wad dent was straight on 12" away from the post. I could have backed up 12" and it would have been fine.

Thanks for the advice. Love tapping into experience!!!

I have 3 lbs of Clay Dot left over from CAS loads that should be perfect. Will start at 1.5 gr and see how it goes.

[salty dog]

Grits is finer and not as much mass, so should leave less of a mark. I use Walters wads as an over payload seal. Still should take out a wasp.

I made a "blanks" once for a fun shoot. I borrowed the idea of shooting ballons from the CAS mounted folks. Having not a single horse, we put a bunch of ballons on posts and shot them from riding lawnmowers. The recipe was much like yours, pretty much a case (357) of grits over a small charge of Titegroup, with a cardboard wad crimped over the top. Never tried it on any bugs, but one of the shooters wanted to see if he could shoot the string of five ballons from the side, maybe 10 feet to the furthest one, and they all popped easily. I shot one blank straight up and you couldn't see any grits come down, so it must have had a little more velocity than I had hoped for. By the way, burnt grits smells funny.

[steve urquell]

Do you prefer long grain rice or the “skeet size” jasmine rice?��
Oh my goodness, Don! I want a $350 K38! What a score!
I'm using long grain just cuz I had some old rice. My wasps aren't too particular about their choice of media.

Thanks for the advice. Love tapping into experience!!!

I have 3 lbs of Clay Dot left over from CAS loads that should be perfect. Will start at 1.5 gr and see how it goes.
I'm no expert, just playing around with it. Feel free to mix up the media as well. Walnut media would be good too.

[Barry54]

I’ve heard wasps are the #1 predator of brown recluse and black widow spiders. If they aren’t too close to the doors I leave them alone for the most part.

Still sounds like useful load data. I wonder if you could use coarse ground black pepper for a more spicy load??

[steve urquell]

I’ve heard wasps are the #1 predator of brown recluse and black widow spiders. If they aren’t too close to the doors I leave them alone for the most part.

Still sounds like useful load data. I wonder if you could use coarse ground black pepper for a more spicy load??

Can you imagine a face full of cayenne pepper at high velocity?

[1eyedjack]

Pepper spray with a bang ?

[steve urquell]

Pepper spray with a bang ?

:bigsmyl2:

[BABore]

Might want to try punching your wads from the top of a foam egg carton. No drill press required and they shouldn't dent anything.

[dverna]

Might want to try punching your wads from the top of a foam egg carton. No drill press required and they shouldn't dent anything.

Great suggestion!

[steve urquell]

In an effort to figure out what dented my porch post I loaded and fired several rice load configurations today.
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1. Cardboard wad, rice, wax cap.
a. 1ft distance= circular dent with rice dents
b. 2ft= rice dents only

2. Foam wad, rice, wax
a. 1ft= circular dent with rice dents
b. 2ft= rice dents only

3. Foam wad, rice, foam cap
a. 1ft distance= rice dents only
b. 2ft= rice dents only

Below: 1ft distance: Cardboard wad, rice, wax cap:
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So it looks like the wax is leaving the circular dents but only from 1ft away. The rice leaves dents as well but only in softwood. It did not dent the plywood ceiling under my porch roof from 2ft away but did leave marks from the rice hitting it.

I will continue to load the rice as in the original post and avoid 1ft shots with the wasp on my porch wood. I feel the load as posted is a good compromise of effectiveness to collateral damage. Just avoid point blank shots. Feel free to experiment and post your results.

[steve urquell]

Hmm, gonna work up some 9mm loads tomorrow and see if they hold enough rice. This would be good in my derringer
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[steve urquell]

Getting ready to pattern 9mm cream of wheat, walnut shell media and rice.
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[steve urquell]

Here's the vid. My consensus is that rice is best. I did make up some duplex loads with rice loaded 1/8" lower than the case neck and topped with COW. Will update when I get to shoot a wasp with those.

https://youtu.be/jdJ-NM8K-PE?feature=shared

[dverna]

I bought some 9mm biodegradable paper straws from Amazon. $6.57 delivered for 66 straws 7.75" long.

I figure I can make six 1.25 inch long capsules per straw to get me a 1.55" OAL. The straws will let me hold a bit more "shot". Planning to use tape to seal the bottom and top to avoid using wads. Not sure how the taper in the case will affect seating the capsule far enough down, but I can score a couple of slits in the straw using a simple jig if need be. 396 capsules for $6.57 works out to just under $.02/capsule, add in the $.05 primer and $.01 for powder. Works out to $.08/shot.

I think the straw idea would work for snake/rat shot loads too. I should be able to get a light crimp on the straw to prevent movement but with rice there is so little mass it may not matter.

There are three advantages for me. Increase in shot volume. Being able to load the capsule like a bullet - just need a .38 cal seating die set up for the capsule and can load them on the Lee 6 Pack easy peasy. I can make them watching TV and have them ready to load.

I am hoping the rifling tears the straw apart but will see how it pans out. I like how Steve tested his loads in his last post. It looks like rice is the best "shot" and I have a lot of rice. I will do my patterning at 6 ft to start.

I owe Steve a kick the butt for putting me down this rabbit hole...LOL.

[steve urquell]

I bought some 9mm biodegradable paper straws from Amazon. $6.57 delivered for 66 straws 7.75" long.

I figure I can make six 1.25 inch long capsules per straw to get me a 1.55" OAL. The straws will let me hold a bit more "shot". Planning to use tape to seal the bottom and top to avoid using wads. Not sure how the taper in the case will affect seating the capsule far enough down, but I can score a couple of slits in the straw using a simple jig if need be. 396 capsules for $6.57 works out to just under $.02/capsule, add in the $.05 primer and $.01 for powder. Works out to $.08/shot.

I think the straw idea would work for snake/rat shot loads too. I should be able to get a light crimp on the straw to prevent movement but with rice there is so little mass it may not matter.

There are three advantages for me. Increase in shot volume. Being able to load the capsule like a bullet - just need a .38 cal seating die set up for the capsule and can load them on the Lee 6 Pack easy peasy. I can make them watching TV and have them ready to load.

I am hoping the rifling tears the straw apart but will see how it pans out. I like how Steve tested his loads in his last post. It looks like rice is the best "shot" and I have a lot of rice. I will do my patterning at 6 ft to start.

I owe Steve a kick the butt for putting me down this rabbit hole...LOL.

Awesome. I look forward to your results with the straws. May be a great way to increase my 9mm case volume. Hey, one thing about this hobby--always keeps ya interested in shooting. You're welcome lol. [smilie=s:

[catmandu]

I loaded 20 rice wasp loads. Used 44 Spl brass and my Bulldog.
Day 1 4 down in 5 shots.
Day 2 4 down then shot 1 3 times still flying. 2 more shots and they flew away.
Will be nice to see what media works best. The red wasps are tough.

Paul

[steve urquell]

I loaded 20 rice wasp loads. Used 44 Spl brass and my Bulldog.
Day 1 4 down in 5 shots.
Day 2 4 down then shot 1 3 times still flying. 2 more shots and they flew away.
Will be nice to see what media works best. The red wasps are tough.

Paul

Glad you are having fun with it. You may want to pattern it and see how tight it is as well as where it's hitting with the sights. When I get one within 2-3ft with the .45 they are blown apart. I shot a small wasp with the 9mm rice/COW duplex load yesterday and it was obliterated.

[steve urquell]

9mm rice/COW loads. I fill the case with rice 1/8" down from the top then top off with COW and shake it to allow it to fill between the rice grains. Final tamp is with the base of the Lee dipper which perfectly seats the COW 1/16" below the case neck. For safety I move the powder off the bench before capping with wax.

So this is strange. It seems like as the case volume decreases the need for powder significantly decreases. I had some 0.7gr 9mm loads and they rang my ears. Kept decreasing it and am now at 0.4gr.

I need to try these on a live subject to test effectiveness.

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[jdgabbard]

Gave this a test today. Loaded up 4x cases with 2.0gr of Bullseye, over powder card, 15gr of Sweet Rice, a over shot card, then sealed with nail polish.

Tested at 5-6ft. Pattern was about a 4” circle. It just barely penetrated two layers of cardboard.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240427/b3b57d175a2507652b8a7feb307b9101.jpg


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240427/b64b577a627f880b452ff1d6f1a2a44c.jpg

[steve urquell]

Gave this a test today. Loaded up 4x cases with 2.0gr of Bullseye, over powder card, 15gr of Sweet Rice, a over shot card, then sealed with nail polish.

Tested at 5-6ft. Pattern was about a 4” circle. It just barely penetrated two layers of cardboard.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240427/b3b57d175a2507652b8a7feb307b9101.jpg


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240427/b64b577a627f880b452ff1d6f1a2a44c.jpg
That'll do it. 2-3' is a good distance to knock them dead and it won't hurt your siding.

[elmacgyver0]

I made a "blanks" once for a fun shoot. I borrowed the idea of shooting ballons from the CAS mounted folks. Having not a single horse, we put a bunch of ballons on posts and shot them from riding lawnmowers. The recipe was much like yours, pretty much a case (357) of grits over a small charge of Titegroup, with a cardboard wad crimped over the top. Never tried it on any bugs, but one of the shooters wanted to see if he could shoot the string of five ballons from the side, maybe 10 feet to the furthest one, and they all popped easily. I shot one blank straight up and you couldn't see any grits come down, so it must have had a little more velocity than I had hoped for. By the way, burnt grits smells funny.

Sounds like a hellova lot of fun shooting off of horseback, I imagine not so fun for the horses.
Although I would never do this to a horse, I can see where it would be fun. I do not have a lot of respect for the CAS bunch that do this.

[elmacgyver0]

I live in town and even a pellet gun is pushing it.
I have a single action BB/pellet revolver, cowboy gun that has cartridges that load ether a BB or pellet.
I'm thinking that maybe the cartridges could be loaded with something like grits with a wad at each end to make a silent wasp terminator powered by CO2, sound reasonable?

[steve urquell]

I live in town and even a pellet gun is pushing it.
I have a single action BB/pellet revolver, cowboy gun that has cartridges that load ether a BB or pellet.
I'm thinking that maybe the cartridges could be loaded with something like grits with a wad at each end to make a silent wasp terminator powered by CO2, sound reasonable?

May as well try it. If it penetrates 1 layer of cardboard it will terminate wasps.

[steve urquell]

I finally found a willing participant in my 9mm Rice/COW load. 0.4gr of powder, cereal box wad, wax cap. Probably ~28" distance. I got splattered with wasp backsplash. No marks on my steel siding other than waspy goodness.
Enjoy the video :p: https://youtube.com/shorts/Jtt6SlpTrQw?feature=shared

[TNsailorman]

Go gett'em Tiger. The only reason I am staying with BB is because I am low on small pistol primers and heavy on BB's. james

[steve urquell]

Go gett'em Tiger. The only reason I am staying with BB is because I am low on small pistol primers and heavy on BB's. james

Lol. I just got 7,000 Aventuras spp in so I'm living high on primers. I'm interested to see what you and @elmacgyver0 can do with the BBs.

[sureYnot]

Tried my hand at this a few days back. First shot dropped one. Then I spent a dollar on primers just making noise and figured that was enough of that.
But then, my order of those Argentinian primers came and they needed to be tested.
As I was making room on the shelf for them, I ran across a couple old cans of 700X. And by old, I mean the price tag says $6.99. Also, they were given to me, years ago, in a box of other stuff and they were open. Therefore, I've never used any of it.
Loading for .357 mag. I ground the rim off a .38 special case so I could use it in my drill. Drilled out the primer pocket so an 8d nail would fit through to push the wads out. Ground the point off the nail. It so happens that the .38 case holds just the right amount of rice for the load.
I tried wax originally but I'm too messy with it. So, I went with an overshot wad and crimp. 2 gns of powder. I've been killing carpenters all morning. Almost as fun as squirrel hunting!
Stole some ideas from you folks and mixed it up a bit. I'm having a blast!
Thanks everyone. Special thanks to Steve! Got any cheese!?

[Charlie Horse]

Can you quickly grind the rice in a coffee grinder to get smaller particles that would act like grits?

[steve urquell]

Tried my hand at this a few days back. First shot dropped one. Then I spent a dollar on primers just making noise and figured that was enough of that.
But then, my order of those Argentinian primers came and they needed to be tested.
As I was making room on the shelf for them, I ran across a couple old cans of 700X. And by old, I mean the price tag says $6.99. Also, they were given to me, years ago, in a box of other stuff and they were open. Therefore, I've never used any of it.
Loading for .357 mag. I ground the rim off a .38 special case so I could use it in my drill. Drilled out the primer pocket so an 8d nail would fit through to push the wads out. Ground the point off the nail. It so happens that the .38 case holds just the right amount of rice for the load.
I tried wax originally but I'm too messy with it. So, I went with an overshot wad and crimp. 2 gns of powder. I've been killing carpenters all morning. Almost as fun as squirrel hunting!
Stole some ideas from you folks and mixed it up a bit. I'm having a blast!
Thanks everyone. Special thanks to Steve! Got any cheese!?
Glad you figured out a way for it to work for you. People have griped about the cost but it is as fun as any type of shooting I've done so I feel like the cost is worth it--at least to me. I actually disassembled some old shotgun shells with rusty brass and have been using the powder out of. For such low pressure charges it does not scare me in any way.

And, no, I don't have any cheese but would like some. How about you? Do you have any cheese? :-D


Can you quickly grind the rice in a coffee grinder to get smaller particles that would act like grits?
I guess you could but it may be easier to use walnut shell media. I like the rice being bigger and heavier to allow it to carry with more punch(I think anyways) It made a difference on paper when I patterened the loads. https://youtube.com/shorts/jdJ-NM8K-PE?feature=shared

[SSGOldfart]

Try Grits instead of rice. or

cream of wheat,


trust me don't use this indoors,I did it's a mess to clean out of the kitchen trust me here lol[smilie=b::groner::groner:

[elmacgyver0]

I loaded up six of the pellet cartridges with grits and egg carton wads.
One wad at the base and two at the mouth as the wads fit looser there.
I used one of those harness makers rotary punches at the biggest setting for the wads, perfect for the .177 cal or 4.5 mm if you prefer.
Have not tested yet, hoping it is at least as good as a Bug-A-Salt.

[steve urquell]

trust me don't use this indoors,I did it's a mess to clean out of the kitchen trust me here lol[smilie=b::groner::groner:
:bigsmyl2::lol:

I loaded up six of the pellet cartridges with grits and egg carton wads.
One wad at the base and two at the mouth as the wads fit looser there.
I used one of those harness makers rotary punches at the biggest setting for the wads, perfect for the .177 cal or 4.5 mm if you prefer.
Have not tested yet, hoping it is at least as good as a Bug-A-Salt.
Good luck with it. Hope it works.

[sureYnot]

Glad you figured out a way for it to work for you. People have griped about the cost but it is as fun as any type of shooting I've done so I feel like the cost is worth it--at least to me. I actually disassembled some old shotgun shells with rusty brass and have been using the powder out of. For such low pressure charges it does not scare me in any way.

And, no, I don't have any cheese but would like some. How about you? Do you have any cheese? :-D

Between the cheap primers and the powder I would have eventually tossed, it's cheaper than plinking with rimfire. And more fun than shooting cans.
I spent less than $2 so far and got hours of entertainment.
Sadly, I'm about out of bees. I think they're on to me. I heard one a few minutes ago. We saw each other. He booked it over to the neighbor's.

Edit: Yes, I have cheese. I am never without cheese. It is a life essential. Similar to bacon.

[steve urquell]

Between the cheap primers and the powder I would have eventually tossed, it's cheaper than plinking with rimfire. And more fun than shooting cans.
I spent less than $2 so far and got hours of entertainment.
Sadly, I'm about out of bees. I think they're on to me. I heard one a few minutes ago. We saw each other. He booked it over to the neighbor's.
My last wasp was staring me down yesterday trying to decide on an attack or flight. He chose poorly.


Yes, I have cheese. I am never without cheese. It is a life essential. Similar to bacon.
I'll be right over. For the cheese and an autograph. He was great in Footloose and Tremors.
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[floydboy]

Downed my first bumble bee yesterday with rice in a 357 mag. Sounded like a cap gun going off. Wife is super excited to have a fun way to get wasp and bumble bees this summer. What fun. Thanks for the idea and write up.

[steve urquell]

Downed my first bumble bee yesterday with rice in a 357 mag. Sounded like a cap gun going off. Wife is super excited to have a fun way to get wasp and bumble bees this summer. What fun. Thanks for the idea and write up.

:guntootsmiley:

[rockrat]

Might be a bit too hard, but instead of rice or grits, I have used "ancini de pepe" pasta as a payload in my 38's (using 357 max brass) for snakes around the house. 2-3' away will penetrate one of the critters. Used 3gr of bullseye. Probably could use 2gr or a bit less if just for wasps or carpenter bees.

[jdgabbard]

Might be a bit too hard, but instead of rice or grits, I have used "ancini de pepe" pasta as a payload in my 38's (using 357 max brass) for snakes around the house. 2-3' away will penetrate one of the critters. Used 3gr of bullseye. Probably could use 2gr or a bit less if just for wasps or carpenter bees.

Now that's an idea! How large is the dry pasta? The Sweet Rice i'm using is shaped like little footballs. If I could find something a little more round I might be able to add some distance to my pattern....

[sureYnot]

Now that's an idea! How large is the dry pasta? The Sweet Rice i'm using is shaped like little footballs. If I could find something a little more round I might be able to add some distance to my pattern....Mustard seed? 22 oz for 12.31 on Amazon.

[elmacgyver0]

Tapioca

[HWooldridge]

I might have missed it but didn't see where anyone mentioned plain old salt - not big rock salt but that coarse grind stuff that's about 1/32"-1/16" in size.

I usually shoot single wasps with an old Daisy BB gun that doesn't have any sights. One cocking stroke then aim down the side of the barrel. Any nest with more than one gets hit with Spectracide in the red, white and black can - but I leave them completely alone unless they are a threat to the family or the pets. Figure they have a purpose in keeping the spider population controlled.

[jdgabbard]

I might have missed it but didn't see where anyone mentioned plain old salt - not big rock salt but that coarse grind stuff that's about 1/32"-1/16" in size.

I usually shoot single wasps with an old Daisy BB gun that doesn't have any sights. One cocking stroke then aim down the side of the barrel. Any nest with more than one gets hit with Spectracide in the red, white and black can - but I leave them completely alone unless they are a threat to the family or the pets. Figure they have a purpose in keeping the spider population controlled.

The wasps and I are currently engaged in a 20 year war spanning the vast lands of Oklahoma. I've attempted to negotiate a peace with them on multiple occasions. But they always chose violence....

[sureYnot]

Mustard seed over 2 gns 700X, out of a 4 inch 357, at 2 & 5 ft.

https://i.imgur.com/zkrRK5I.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/IyP6HvT.jpeg




Rice

https://i.imgur.com/DjLgbFe.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/wDpp3n8.jpeg

[jdgabbard]

Mustard seed over 2 gns 700X, out of a 4 inch 357, at 2 & 5 ft.


Your 2ft groups with mustard seed look like my 5ft groups with Sweet Rice out of my 2" SP101. Maybe the little football shaped sweet rice is having some type of aerodynamic effect on the pattern...

[sureYnot]

Your 2ft groups with mustard seed look like my 5ft groups with Sweet Rice out of my 2" SP101. Maybe the little football shaped sweet rice is having some type of aerodynamic effect on the pattern...Now I kinda want to run to the grocery store.

[jdgabbard]

Now I kinda want to run to the grocery store.

I'll take a photo when I get back to the house to post. I'm not sure where to even buy sweet rice. The son brought it home a while back, and it was just sitting in the kitchen...

[steve urquell]

Back to work after vacation last week so no weekday playing for me.

Might be a bit too hard, but instead of rice or grits, I have used "ancini de pepe" pasta as a payload in my 38's (using 357 max brass) for snakes around the house. 2-3' away will penetrate one of the critters. Used 3gr of bullseye. Probably could use 2gr or a bit less if just for wasps or carpenter bees.
Fancy pasta for your killing? Sounds like it would work good but may be hard on the siding.

I might have missed it but didn't see where anyone mentioned plain old salt - not big rock salt but that coarse grind stuff that's about 1/32"-1/16" in size.

I usually shoot single wasps with an old Daisy BB gun that doesn't have any sights. One cocking stroke then aim down the side of the barrel. Any nest with more than one gets hit with Spectracide in the red, white and black can - but I leave them completely alone unless they are a threat to the family or the pets. Figure they have a purpose in keeping the spider population controlled.
I don't want salt anywhere near my firearms. Also no used walnut shell media. Carbon and polishing compound is no bueno for the barrel.

The wasps and I are currently engaged in a 20 year war spanning the vast lands of Oklahoma. I've attempted to negotiate a peace with them on multiple occasions. But they always chose violence....
Me too. They have treated me poorly over the years. My last straw was last year when 3 were hanging out on the top of my storm door. All 3 stung me in the back of the neck as I exited the door. Having absolutely zero clue what had happened I hit the deck face first. Luckily no damage other than the need to clean out the shorts then rage and vengeance. All stinging insects choose combat if near my house.


Mustard seed over 2 gns 700X, out of a 4 inch 357, at 2 & 5 ft.

https://i.imgur.com/zkrRK5I.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/IyP6HvT.jpeg




Rice

https://i.imgur.com/DjLgbFe.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/wDpp3n8.jpeg
I stand by rice as being the most effective media. The sharp ends and long end-over-end pieces rip up a wasp. Paper says it all.

[jdgabbard]

Now I kinda want to run to the grocery store.

Ok, so I guess my memory was finder than reality. Still not a bad patter for 5-6 feet.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240430/8d7dd6c8e06f6859e9fb29ebcfdae46a.jpg

[rockrat]

ancini de pepe pasta is fairly round and probably 1/3 to 1/2 the size of a grain of rice. Maybe the size of small tapioca.

[sureYnot]

I was out behind the garage, feeding the chickens, when I heard it. Faint, at first. Just nudging the edge of my consiousness. As I finished up and shut the coop door the sound came into focus. That unmistakable, low-pitched buzz. The enemy. A carpenter.

"I hear you. I'll be right back." A smile crept onto my face as I turned for the house.

Now armed with my trusty .357 Magnum Rice Chucker of Death, I crept down the pathway between the house and the garage. Listening carefully for any sign of the enemy.

This one is sly, I know. That's why he's lived this long. I think he might be the last of them. He hasn't shown himself yet. Probably the same carp that fell back to the neighbor's the other day. It's best if I can get the drop on him.

I didn't have to wait long. There it was. Faint, but clear. There. Over by the shed. They always liked to eat my shed. I stalked toward the shed, trying to see everywhere at once. The sound grew louder as I approached. I had to be right. There he was! Hovering low to the left of the shed!

I crept closer, took careful aim (I wanted this one DEAD) and BANG! ZING! He's around the corner!

Dang it! Too far. I knew it and did it anyway. No time for that. I can chew myself out later. Now I've alerted him and the battle is on.

I move swiftly around the corner, Rice Chucker of Death leading the way. The carp is right there, Not three feet away. Perfect.

As I squeeze off my shot the carp zips straight up and then mounts a charge at my face! My supreme efforts to move my face backwards six feet, while my feet remained firmly planted, proved futile. Thankfully, the charge was merely a feint as the carp performed a half-loop barrel roll and headed back the other way. BANGzig. BANGzag. Around the next corner he goes.

The neighbor's house is in the backdrop around that corner. I know I can't shoot. But I still need intel. Hopefully, I can see where he goes, at least.

I burst around the corner before he can disappear and there he is. Chest height, 2-3' and not moving a bit. We stared at each other for a good 10 seconds while I planned my next move. I'm sure it's that same filthy carp from the other day. He's using the neighbor as a shield now!

I could advance and try to push him around the corner, thereby maintaining visual contact. But he might fall back to the neighbor's again.

Or I could try to get around the other direction before he goes anywhere, but then I lose visual contact and he could disappear.

I went with the latter, counting on his love of eating my shed to keep him around a bit longer if he wasn't being pushed too hard. Addicts are nothing if not predictable.

Two shots left. Stay focused. Don't get excited and screw up like you did in the baginning. I'm ready to round the final corner when I heard a buzz over my head going towards the shed.

I glance up, knowing it isn't the carp (the buzz was too high pitched). A wasp. Perched right by the spot that other wasp came out of last year and nailed me in the...wait a minute...

Then I knew. It was the same wasp. That filthy carp was building an army! He would never give up his favorite snack. It was him or me. He had to be stopped. And I had to stop him. I took careful aim and disintegrated the wasp. I couldn't afford to have an enemy at my back as I moved in for the final kill.

One shot left. Better make it count.

I took a breath, let it out, and stepped out from the corner.

My eye locked on the carp as I brought up the Rice Chucker of Death. Time slowed as I obtained sight picture. This was it! I began to squeeze and ZING he went up and at my face again, veering off at the last second. This time heading back the way I came from. I turned in time to see him go around the next corner.

Sprinting past the shed, I caught him on the next side and fired my last shot. He lay there kicking and (hopefully) begging for his life.

Slowly, I lowered Rice Chucker to my side. It was over. Taking one step forward I ground the enemy into the dirt beneath my boot heel. (actually a flip-flop)

A well-spent 35 cents.

plug for safety glasses: When I shot the wasp a piece of rice came back and hit me in the head. It didn't hurt. But it would have been not fun in the eye.

[TNsailorman]

Good story and well written. Nothing like the death rattle of the enemy in the afternoon. Puts a glow on the day. james

[steve urquell]

I was out behind the garage, feeding the chickens, when I heard it. Faint, at first. Just nudging the edge of my consiousness. As I finished up and shut the coop door the sound came into focus. That unmistakable, low-pitched buzz. The enemy. A carpenter.

"I hear you. I'll be right back." A smile crept onto my face as I turned for the house.

Now armed with my trusty .357 Magnum Rice Chucker of Death, I crept down the pathway between the house and the garage. Listening carefully for any sign of the enemy.

This one is sly, I know. That's why he's lived this long. I think he might be the last of them. He hasn't shown himself yet. Probably the same carp that fell back to the neighbor's the other day. It's best if I can get the drop on him.

I didn't have to wait long. There it was. Faint, but clear. There. Over by the shed. They always liked to eat my shed. I stalked toward the shed, trying to see everywhere at once. The sound grew louder as I approached. I had to be right. There he was! Hovering low to the left of the shed!

I crept closer, took careful aim (I wanted this one DEAD) and BANG! ZING! He's around the corner!

Dang it! Too far. I knew it and did it anyway. No time for that. I can chew myself out later. Now I've alerted him and the battle is on.

I move swiftly around the corner, Rice Chucker of Death leading the way. The carp is right there, Not three feet away. Perfect.

As I squeeze off my shot the carp zips straight up and then mounts a charge at my face! My supreme efforts to move my face backwards six feet, while my feet remained firmly planted, proved futile. Thankfully, the charge was merely a feint as the carp performed a half-loop barrel roll and headed back the other way. BANGzig. BANGzag. Around the next corner he goes.

The neighbor's house is in the backdrop around that corner. I know I can't shoot. But I still need intel. Hopefully, I can see where he goes, at least.

I burst around the corner before he can disappear and there he is. Chest height, 2-3' and not moving a bit. We stared at each other for a good 10 seconds while I planned my next move. I'm sure it's that same filthy carp from the other day. He's using the neighbor as a shield now!

I could advance and try to push him around the corner, thereby maintaining visual contact. But he might fall back to the neighbor's again.

Or I could try to get around the other direction before he goes anywhere, but then I lose visual contact and he could disappear.

I went with the latter, counting on his love of eating my shed to keep him around a bit longer if he wasn't being pushed too hard. Addicts are nothing if not predictable.

Two shots left. Stay focused. Don't get excited and screw up like you did in the baginning. I'm ready to round the final corner when I heard a buzz over my head going towards the shed.

I glance up, knowing it isn't the carp (the buzz was too high pitched). A wasp. Perched right by the spot that other wasp came out of last year and nailed me in the...wait a minute...

Then I knew. It was the same wasp. That filthy carp was building an army! He would never give up his favorite snack. It was him or me. He had to be stopped. And I had to stop him. I took careful aim and disintegrated the wasp. I couldn't afford to have an enemy at my back as I moved in for the final kill.

One shot left. Better make it count.

I took a breath, let it out, and stepped out from the corner.

My eye locked on the carp as I brought up the Rice Chucker of Death. Time slowed as I obtained sight picture. This was it! I began to squeeze and ZING he went up and at my face again, veering off at the last second. This time heading back the way I came from. I turned in time to see him go around the next corner.

Sprinting past the shed, I caught him on the next side and fired my last shot. He lay there kicking and (hopefully) begging for his life.

Slowly, I lowered Rice Chucker to my side. It was over. Taking one step forward I ground the enemy into the dirt beneath my boot heel. (actually a flip-flop)

A well-spent 35 cents.

plug for safety glasses: When I shot the wasp a piece of rice came back and hit me in the head. It didn't hurt. But it would have been not fun in the eye.

Awesome short story. I laughed, I cried, now I'm hungry.
:lol::lol::guntootsmiley::2gunsfiring_v1:

[dverna]

I will never top that!

[Barry54]

9mm rice/COW loads. I fill the case with rice 1/8" down from the top then top off with COW and shake it to allow it to fill between the rice grains. Final tamp is with the base of the Lee dipper which perfectly seats the COW 1/16" below the case neck. For safety I move the powder off the bench before capping with wax.

So this is strange. It seems like as the case volume decreases the need for powder significantly decreases. I had some 0.7gr 9mm loads and they rang my ears. Kept decreasing it and am now at 0.4gr.

I need to try these on a live subject to test effectiveness.

326012

So this is strange. It seems like as the case volume decreases the need for powder significantly decreases

Yes. And chamber pressure sharply increases! That was one of the features with my 200 grain 9mm tests.

[steve urquell]

Yes. And chamber pressure sharply increases! That was one of the features with my 200 grain 9mm tests.
Having reloaded for 40 years I am very aware of the increased pressure of small volume cases. The thing that was strange about this was the huge change from a .38spl case to the 9mm case. Even at 5x less powder than the .38s I still seem to have higher pressure in the 9mm.

Edit: I switched from Bullseye in the .38 and .45LC to salvaged 12ga shell powder somewhere in there. May be the reason for the drastic difference.

[Barry54]

Bullseye is pretty fast, but there are some faster powders used in 12 gauge.

Think you had some compression in the 9mm wasp load? Or less than the 38? I went back and read the first post for the 38 recipe. There wasn’t any cream of wheat buffer in those loads. Could the 9mm have actually had a heavier projectile weight than 38 special? Could the duplex payload somehow made more friction and caused the pressure to spike?

Weren’t you using a fast shotgun powder in 9mm with the first round pop discussion? I don’t remember what it was.

[steve urquell]

Bullseye is pretty fast, but there are some faster powders used in 12 gauge.

Think you had some compression in the 9mm wasp load? Or less than the 38?

Weren’t you using a fast shotgun powder in 9mm with the first round pop discussion? I don’t remember what it was.

Could be a combo of the powder, more compression with the cereal box wads vs corrugated cardboard and adding cream of wheat with the rice making a heavier load. That vid where the wasp disintegrated was a 0.4gr load. Could decrease to 0.3 easily

ETA: TiteWad is my fav 9mm powder and it is very fast.

[dverna]

Bullseye is pretty fast, but there are some faster powders used in 12 gauge.

Think you had some compression in the 9mm wasp load? Or less than the 38? I went back and read the first post for the 38 recipe. There wasn’t any cream of wheat buffer in those loads. Could the 9mm have actually had a heavier projectile weight than 38 special? Could the duplex payload somehow made more friction and caused the pressure to spike?

Weren’t you using a fast shotgun powder in 9mm with the first round pop discussion? I don’t remember what it was.

Nothing faster than BE is used in 12 ga. In fact BE is not even listed for 12 ga loads today. There is some old BE data for light 12 loads…really old data.

[Barry54]

Nothing faster than BE is used in 12 ga. In fact BE is not even listed for 12 ga loads today. There is some old BE data for light 12 loads…really old data.

My BPI 10th edition copyright 2016 has 21 bullseye loads for 3/4 ounce loads on page 173.

Tightwad, WAA Lite and E3 are faster than bullseye on the first burn rate chart I pulled up online...

[Barry54]

The Lyman 5th edition copyright 2023 also contains data for Vihtavuori N310 powder in 12 gauge. 7/8 ounce, And 1 ounce loads on page 149 and a 1-1/8 ounce load on page 150.

Every burn rate chart I recall has N310 faster than bullseye. It’s usually in the top three fastest powders on every chart.

[steve urquell]

I got my .45LC to 9mm adapters in yesterday. They work good in the derringer with the 9mm .04gr loads with rice/COW mix. I'm doing a thread on them for shooting 9mm bullets.
326220
326221

[steve urquell]

Shot a wasp on the ceiling of my deck roof and left a big dent from the wax wad. I am reluctantly going back and capping the rice with a cardboard wad. So I don't have to crimp I melted a thin skin of wax over the wad and it locks it in place. Went out and shot a pine board and the new setup does not leave a wad dent from 2ft but did leave rice dents.

326242

Cereal box wad covered rice on the left vs the thick wax wad on the right.
326243

And a trophy kill. Small horsefly on the porch taken down from 6ft away.
326245

[brokeasajoke]

Loaded some magtec 410 brass shells. Got home from work the other day and my wife was chasing one around and I said "hold up, I got some medicine that will fix it". Went to the basement and popped a shell in my son's pointer 410 and came back up to the porch. Smoked that one. was going to try the 38spl load but I ran out of time before church so I just swatted two more with a badminton racket. Not nearly as fun as shooting them but effective.

[steve urquell]

Loaded some magtec 410 brass shells. Got home from work the other day and my wife was chasing one around and I said "hold up, I got some medicine that will fix it". Went to the basement and popped a shell in my son's pointer 410 and came back up to the porch. Smoked that one. was going to try the 38spl load but I ran out of time before church so I just swatted two more with a badminton racket. Not nearly as fun as shooting them but effective.

You loading with rice? Those .410 shells would be awesome in my derringer.

[brokeasajoke]

You loading with rice? Those .410 shells would be awesome in my derringer.

Yes. Rice, tumbling media and what ever else I can find of the like. I'm on the hunt for some smaller seeds of some kind kind of like bird seed without the larger stuff

[sureYnot]

Yes. Rice, tumbling media and what ever else I can find of the like. I'm on the hunt for some smaller seeds of some kind kind of like bird seed without the larger stuffI tested some mustard seed. Worked ok, but the pattern opened up a little fast with my revolver. Might work for you, though.

[elmacgyver0]

Shot a wasp on the ceiling of my deck roof and left a big dent from the wax wad. I am reluctantly going back and capping the rice with a cardboard wad. So I don't have to crimp I melted a thin skin of wax over the wad and it locks it in place. Went out and shot a pine board and the new setup does not leave a wad dent from 2ft but did leave rice dents.

326242

Cereal box wad covered rice on the left vs the thick wax wad on the right.
326243

And a trophy kill. Small horsefly on the porch taken down from 6ft away.
326245

Are you going to have it mounted?

[sureYnot]

I am reluctantly going back and capping the rice with a cardboard wad. So I don't have to crimp I melted a thin skin of wax over the wad and it locks it in place.

I've been thinking about the wear & tear on my brass since you posted this. I got to thinking that rice load doesn't weight much (14.5gn in my load) and there's no recoil. Is wax, glue, crimping, or anything really necessary?

I loaded a few for testing. Tried to pound one apart in my hand (simulating a bullet puller) and got nowhere. Shot 4 before all bees & lizards disappeared. (Yes, it does a number on a skink. Be ready to finish him so he doesn't have to die slow.) I checked after each shot and there was no sign of movement. I did make sure the over shot wads had no creases or other defects. Mine are made from Winchester primer box.

I imagine there's no reason to clean or size the fired brass either, unless you want to put it in a different firearm.

[steve urquell]

I've been thinking about the wear & tear on my brass since you posted this. I got to thinking that rice load doesn't weight much (14.5gn in my load) and there's no recoil. Is wax, glue, crimping, or anything really necessary?

I loaded a few for testing. Tried to pound one apart in my hand (simulating a bullet puller) and got nowhere. Shot 4 before all bees & lizards disappeared. (Yes, it does a number on a skink. Be ready to finish him so he doesn't have to die slow.) I checked after each shot and there was no sign of movement. I did make sure the over shot wads had no creases or other defects. Mine are made from Winchester primer box.

I imagine there's no reason to clean or size the fired brass either, unless you want to put it in a different firearm.

No need to resize the brass. I have my progressive set up for 9mm so it does just to punch the primer and seat a new one. I like to cap the rice as I have had a couple fall apart even with a wax cap on so I will cap with a cereal box wad with a tiny bit of wax, no crimp.

And I never kill skinks and lizards. They are awesome little guys. They eat bugs you don't want in your house. I love having them patrol my porch. Natures exterminators.

[sureYnot]

They're always going under my siding. I figured that was bad. I'm from the north until the last few years. Some of the creatures here are new to me.
You inspired me to read a little. I've killed 2. Those will be the only 2. Thanks.

[steve urquell]

They're always going under my siding. I figured that was bad. I'm from the north until the last few years. Some of the creatures here are new to me.
You inspired me to read a little. I've killed 2. Those will be the only 2. Thanks.

Oh man that makes me happy to hear. If new to the area it's always a good idea to ID the local animals. Don't be afraid of big black snakes either. They kill copperheads and eat mice and rats. One of the good guys. Below is my buddy who hung around at my house for 7 years.
326265

[steve urquell]

In other thoughts:
Tonight I filled a 9mm case with rice then emptied it in my mortar and pestel and crushed it. It didn't do like I hoped and turned more into powder than granules. After crushing I put it back in the case expecting it to be half full.

Nope. It filled it to the top. Zero benefit in crushing rice IMHO.

[HWooldridge]

You might try filling the case with uncrushed rice then paint the top layer with nail polish to glue it down. A light coat of Elmers white glue may work, too.

[dverna]

You might try filling the case with uncrushed rice then paint the top layer with nail polish to glue it down. A light coat of Elmers white glue may work, too.

Definitely worth trying. Thanks for the suggestion.

[steve urquell]

Are you going to have it mounted?

Yes. I want to do it right though so I'm looking for a horse. Then I'll have to find a taxidermist who can mount both. Trying to move the furniture around so the combo will fit in the house. Wife is wondering what I'm up to.

[sureYnot]

If new to the area it's always a good idea to ID the local animals.

Two days ago, I'd have shot this guy just to be sure. King snake? I think it is. Not sure enough to get any closer though. lol

https://i.imgur.com/44Dh1Tr.jpeg

[HWooldridge]

IMHO, only reason to kill a snake is if it’s venomous or threatening the poultry. Therefore, a person only needs to identify the dangerous ones in your area. We have all four basic species here, but I rarely see cottonmouths or copperheads - so rattlesnakes and coral snakes are about all we need to be concerned with. Out in the wild, I’ll leave most anything alone and just go the other direction, if possible.

I caught a black rat snake yesterday that was about 5 feet long - he was climbing the chicken wire and headed for the eggs, but I pulled him out and carried him about 150 yards then turned him loose near the heavy brush. I don’t think he will come back but we shall see.

[TNsailorman]

The rattlesnake and copperhead have the pit between the snout and the eye that is easily seen. They are called Pit Viper snakes and poisonous. Also your snake does not have the broad arrowhead shape that the copperhead, cottonmouth and rattlesnake will have. If it does not have the pit, it is most likely harmless as far as venom is concerned. Me thinks you shot a good guy. Study that coloration closely and you will see it does not have the diamond of the rattlesnake. Close coloration but not the same. A lot of King Snakes are shot as rattlesnakes and mores the pity. A lot of harmless water snakes are killed as cottonmouths also. There are also a couple of snakes that resemble the copperhead and are killed quite often by mis-identification. It is easy to do if you are not familiar with snakes. james

[sureYnot]

Guys. I did NOT kill this snake. I wanted to let Steve know his post had an impact. I WOULD HAVE a few days ago, thinking I was erring on the side of caution.
I'm resolved to make a greater effort to educate myself on the local creatures.

[steve urquell]

Guys. I did NOT kill this snake. I wanted to let Steve know his post had an impact. I WOULD HAVE a few days ago, thinking I was erring on the side of caution.
I'm resolved to make a greater effort to educate myself on the local creatures.

I understood that you did not and thank you for letting that big guy go. He's a king snake and that means he is the king of the snakes eating venomous ones. A real good guy. In Arkansas I only have 4 snakes to watch out for and the copperhead is the one I see most. Sometimes black cottonmouths when kayaking.

The copperheads are easy to ID with Hersheys kisses on their back. Also diamond shaped viper head. They get no pass from me.
326298

[TNsailorman]

Copperheads and rattlers are my sworn enemies. There are no cottonmouths where I live or at least I have never heard of anyone seeing one around here. I consider the copperhead more dangerous than a rattler because he does not rattle to give warning and also, they seem to be more mean tempered than rattlers. Get within striking distance and they usually strike. It a purely defensive reaction but one than can mean a lot of trouble. I have a healthy respect for both and keep a sharp lookout when in the woods. Don't ever step over a log in the woods without first checking under it and on the other side, I know from experience they like to lay there. It is good ambush territory for them. james

[steve urquell]

Copperheads and rattlers are my sworn enemies. There are no cottonmouths where I live or at least I have never heard of anyone seeing one around here. I consider the copperhead more dangerous than a rattler because he does not rattle to give warning and also, they seem to be more mean tempered than rattlers. Get within striking distance and they usually strike. It a purely defensive reaction but one than can mean a lot of trouble. I have a healthy respect for both and keep a sharp lookout when in the woods. Don't ever step over a log in the woods without first checking under it and on the other side, I know from experience they like to lay there. It is good ambush territory for them. james

Yep, copperheads are responsible for most bites here because they won't move when you walk around them and people step on them and get bit. I was setting up for a party here and backed up and bumped my heel on one of my landscape timbers.

Looked down and a big copperhead was laying on the other side of it. Never moved. I got lucky. Went in the house and grabbed my .22 pistol and took his head off. Pretty big one as you know they don't get long, just fatter.
326312

[TNsailorman]

I have always thought that copperheads have a vicious look to them. Like I said, the fight is on if I see one.

[steve urquell]

I have always thought that copperheads have a vicious look to them. Like I said, the fight is on if I see one.

Yep. My nurse wife came home from work today saying a patient came in to her urgent care clinic. Reached down into her flower bed and got nailed by one. Sent her the the ER.

[TNsailorman]

When I was very young our next door neighbor was an older woman in in 60's. She had lived most of her life on a farm with her husband over on the border close to the Kentucky and Tennessee line. Over time she was bitten 3 times by copperheads while she worked in her bean patch. Twice while picking beans and once while hoeing her bean patch. She said the first bite made her very sick for days and only the doctors care pulled her through. The second bite made her sick for one day and swelled some but was nothing like the first bite. The third bite she said didn't even affect her all that much, sick at her stomach and ran a temperature but did not put her off her feet. Her doctor told her that her body was building up resistance to the venom every time she got bitten. I have never heard this before or after but she was a Christian lady and I do believe both she and her doctor thought she was building up her resistance to venom. james

[HWooldridge]

People can build up tolerance to snake bites - it's just that most people don't get bitten more than once. I had a blue heeler dog which I know for a fact was bitten four times in the course of her life - the last one was a big snake and hit her at least twice. She lasted most of that same day but finally gave up the ghost. My wife shot that rattler with my 44 SAA (in the head, with slugs, no snakeshot loads).

There was a herpetologist in Florida some years ago who had been bitten by several different venomous snakes during his lifetime and lived through each one, until a king cobra hit him with a big load. That one killed him.

[steve urquell]

Bill Haast was a herpetologist who injected himself with venom and had high resistance to bites.

"Mr. Haast was bitten at least 173 times by poisonous snakes, about 20 times almost fatally. It was all in a day’s work for probably the best-known snake handler in the country, a scientist-cum-showman who made enough money from milking toxic goo from slithery serpents to buy a cherry-red Rolls-Royce convertible.

A secret of his success was the immunity he had built up by injecting himself every day for more than 60 years with a mix of venoms from 32 snake species."
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/18/us/18haast.html

[HWooldridge]

Bill Haast was a herpetologist who injected himself with venom and had high resistance to bites.

"Mr. Haast was bitten at least 173 times by poisonous snakes, about 20 times almost fatally. It was all in a day’s work for probably the best-known snake handler in the country, a scientist-cum-showman who made enough money from milking toxic goo from slithery serpents to buy a cherry-red Rolls-Royce convertible.

A secret of his success was the immunity he had built up by injecting himself every day for more than 60 years with a mix of venoms from 32 snake species."
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/18/us/18haast.html

That's the guy - I recalled he was killed by the cobra but apparently not. Maybe all that snake venom helped him live to be 100!

[steve urquell]

OK, here's the evolution of this for me. I wanted to add more rice. Bought some 00 gel capsules from Amazon. They measure .330" on the cap, .310" on the body.
326428
326429

A full case of rice in my 9mm was 8 grains weight. I zeroed the case with the empty cap on and it added 6.5grains of rice weight. SO 14.5 grains of rice vs 8.
326430

Here's the pattern at 2ft. Pretty danged tight.
326431

I still haven't perfected how to crimp/fix it into the case. I put this thru the seater die and it mashed it down enough to hold it in but I don't consider it secure. Open to ideas on that. A crimp won't work. I tried it with my .380 die and crimped it down to where the case was bottlenecked and it fell into the chamber 1/8" down---seats on the case mouth--DUH! .38spl would probably be fine.

[dverna]

OK, here's the evolution of this for me. I wanted to add more rice. Bought some 00 gel capsules from Amazon. They measure .330" on the cap, .310" on the body.
326428
326429

A full case of rice in my 9mm was 8 grains weight. I zeroed the case with the empty cap on and it added 6.5grains of rice weight. SO 14.5 grains of rice vs 8.
326430

Here's the pattern at 2ft. Pretty danged tight.
326431

I still haven't perfected how to crimp/fix it into the case. I put this thru the seater die and it mashed it down enough to hold it in but I don't consider it secure. Open to ideas on that. A crimp won't work. I tried it with my .380 die and crimped it down to where the case was bottlenecked and it fell into the chamber 1/8" down---seats on the case mouth--DUH! .38spl would probably be fine.

Maybe a wrap of blue painters tape?

[steve urquell]

Maybe a wrap of blue painters tape?

That might work. I'll give it a shot.

I played around with scrunching the full capsule down on a near full case and it snugged it up. With the tape it may be just right.

[35 Rem]

Now that is an interesting development with these rice bug loads. I never knew you could buy empty capsules like that. I'm looking on Amazon and the brand I'm seeing shows size 0 capsules to be .3" diameter and .85" long while size 00 is .33" diameter and .92" long.

Size 000 are .39" diameter and 1.03" long - maybe these could be used in 44 calibers using Dverna's tape idea?

The extra payload outside the case should add significant effectiveness regardless of which is used.

[SSGOldfart]

maybe a drop of glue that cap won't last long anyhow..

[35 Rem]

Are you still using an over powder wad of some sort? I'd think it would help since that capsule doesn't have much strength but then the rice is so light who knows. IF cutting all the wads could be avoided it would sure be nice. I made about 50 the other day just using a 38 case that I sharpened using an RCBS deburring tool and cut them out of a Styrofoam egg carton and its sort of tedious. Not real hard but I'd avoid it in a minute if these capsules work without them.

[steve urquell]

Now that is an interesting development with these rice bug loads. I never knew you could buy empty capsules like that. I'm looking on Amazon and the brand I'm seeing shows size 0 capsules to be .3" diameter and .85" long while size 00 is .33" diameter and .92" long.

Size 000 are .39" diameter and 1.03" long - maybe these could be used in 44 calibers using Dverna's tape idea?

The extra payload outside the case should add significant effectiveness regardless of which is used.I had some of the 000 capsules in the cart but figured they'd be too big for .38/9mm so I removed them. I'm happy with the increased load. I didn't think it would add that much but it looks to be an 80% increase. Kicking around making some shotgun shot loads with these.


maybe a drop of glue that cap won't last long anyhow..
I did a little wax but it was awkward because of trying to get it in at an angle. I may put a few drops of glue on there and check it out.

[steve urquell]

Are you still using an over powder wad of some sort? I'd think it would help since that capsule doesn't have much strength but then the rice is so light who knows. IF cutting all the wads could be avoided it would sure be nice. I made about 50 the other day just using a 38 case that I sharpened using an RCBS deburring tool and cut them out of a Styrofoam egg carton and its sort of tedious. Not real hard but I'd avoid it in a minute if these capsules work without them.

I did use a cereal box wad because I wanted the capsule open to let the shot out. I only used the top or bottom of the capsules. I'll try a few closed and see if they open up.

Cutting the wads in the drill press is super easy. I have a cereal box folded and cut 2 wads per downstroke. Last time I got 20 wads in my .38 case. Did 2 batches for 40 total and put them in a pill bottle.

[steve urquell]

Alright, played around with the capsules some more. Capsules hold 16.5gr of rice.
326452

I loaded them directly over powder with no wad. They did not open up at 2ft so I X-cut the tips and wrapped them with 2 wraps of tape (thanks Dverna)and got a tight group at 2ft.
326453
326454

I also tried some #7.5 shot with the x-cut tip. It did great at 4ft but needed more powder. I got a bath in 7.5 shot and it didn't even penetrate the cardboard lol.
326455
326456
326457

[steve urquell]

Forgot to add. The last x-cut rice capsule I shot was still inside the 9mm case after firing. It blew thru the capsule.

326458

[dverna]

That is a nice pattern Steve!

[steve urquell]

That is a nice pattern Steve!

Thanks for the tape idea. The x-cut in the tip did it. I'm gonna beef up that lead shot load with more powder and see what it will do. This is fun stuff.

[Barry54]

The capsules are a great idea!

Instead of wax, how about Lee Liquid Alox to stick them in place? Would it degrade the capsule material?

[steve urquell]

The capsules are a great idea!

Instead of wax, how about Lee Liquid Alox to stick them in place? Would it degrade the capsule material?

I think I have some in my reloading stuff. I'll check it out. I did do some capsules with wax but the ones with tape are stuck better abeit a bit tedious to do.

[steve urquell]

Still playing around with the capsules. I kinda fell into something with them. I took the piece of brass that I overcrimped. It had a waist in it 3/16" down. I flared it and then put the capsule in it which made it tighter around it then ran it thru the seater die which scrunched everything together making it tight. Still tweaking it. If they are loose I can use a birthday candle and hold the case at an angle and get wax on the case mouth around the capsule.

Lee Alox was a big no way. Sticky, stinky and did not secure the capsule even after being left overnight.

326483

[HWooldridge]

With access to a lathe, one could turn any size capsule from plastic rod and also make caps. Most folks don’t shoot huge amounts of small shotloads so the production time would be minimal.

[steve urquell]

With access to a lathe, one could turn any size capsule from plastic rod and also make caps. Most folks don’t shoot huge amounts of small shotloads so the production time would be minimal.

Yep. You don't load a ton of these. I initially shot ~25 wasps but that culled the ones I had hanging around the house. It's been slim pickings since my initial foray into it.

Once I get this figured out and a good method to secure them the extra time will be negligible. Still got a few tricks up my sleeve. I'll update as I get it going in the right direction.

[dverna]

Just an update wrt using paper straws for .38 Spl "shot" cups.

The 9mm straws were too large. The 9mm straws just barely fit a slightly belled .38 case but would not seat down far enough. I might be able to make them work but it was going to be too much dinking around. I am lazy.

Ordered 8 mm straws and they will arrive next week.

Couple of thoughts:

I want paper straws that are biodegradeable as I do not want to pick up plastic bits. I plan to use paper "gas checks" to seal the top and bottom of the straw and glue them in place.

For those of you who could use plastic cups, plastic straws might be worth looking at. I think plastic straws would work for lead shot loads and would be easy to seal using heat like the gearnasher method.

Another thing I will try is a two part capsule for the .38 using a section of 8mm straw seated deep in the case, and the 9mm straw extended out far enough to maximize "shot" load. The 9mm straw will provide a good crimp surface at the mouth of the case.

[steve urquell]

Just an update wrt using paper straws for .38 Spl "shot" cups.

The 9mm straws were too large. The 9mm straws just barely fit a slightly belled .38 case but would not seat down far enough. I might be able to make them work but it was going to be too much dinking around. I am lazy.

Ordered 8 mm straws and they will arrive next week.

Couple of thoughts:

I want paper straws that are biodegradeable as I do not want to pick up plastic bits. I plan to use paper "gas checks" to seal the top and bottom of the straw and glue them in place.

For those of you who could use plastic cups, plastic straws might be worth looking at. I think plastic straws would work for lead shot loads and would be easy to seal using heat like the gearnasher method.

Another thing I will try is a two part capsule for the .38 using a section of 8mm straw seated deep in the case, and the 9mm straw extended out far enough to maximize "shot" load. The 9mm straw will provide a good crimp surface at the mouth of the case.

Looking forward to your results. One thing I like about the capsules I'm using is that they are gelatin. Dissolve in water/biodegradable/digestable

[Gtrubicon]

What if you used paper cartridges? I make them for my cap n ball pistols. I bought a kit a couple of years ago. Fill the paper cartridges with rice, twist the top to retain it and seat it in a primed and charged case? I think it would work. I’d try it but I just had surgery to re attach a torn bicep. I will be one handed for at least 6 weeks.

[Gtrubicon]

I can’t post photos here, but would be glad to email or text pictures to anyone unfamiliar with what paper cartridges look like.

[steve urquell]

They're always going under my siding. I figured that was bad. I'm from the north until the last few years. Some of the creatures here are new to me.
You inspired me to read a little. I've killed 2. Those will be the only 2. Thanks.

The above is regarding skinks on the porch. I was admiring a really big one on my porch today amazed at his size when all of a sudden...WHAM!! An American Kestrel blazes across my porch and snatches him up. He was going 100mph 6" inside the porch post and a couple inches off the deck. Couldn't believe it it happened so fast. Blazing fast little falcon.

[sureYnot]

The above is regarding skinks on the porch. I was admiring a really big one on my porch today amazed at his size when all of a sudden...WHAM!! An American Kestrel blazes across my porch and snatches him up. He was going 100mph 6" inside the porch post and a couple inches off the deck. Couldn't believe it it happened so fast. Blazing fast little falcon.Wow. What a sight!

[steve urquell]

OK, I got it figured out and am happy with the results. No extra glue, tape, nothing needed to secure the capsules. Brass just needs a modification and then can stay for use with shot loads. I was using old janky brass I chucked in the recycle bin anyways since it's for almost no pressure loads.

I played around with #7.5 shot today just for the heck of it but this will apply to rice loads too. Also .38spl can be done the same.

OK, here we go:
First I ran the primed brass into a .380 bullet seater/crimp die(can also be a 9mm but I had my 9mm setup in my progressive press) that was set really deep to basically make the case a bottlenecked .330" case at the case mouth. A .32 die that didn't size the body might work here. I'm open to suggestions here on alternate dies. My .300blk won't work because the body of the die is smaller than a 9mm case but may work with a .357 case.
9mm case after .380 deep seater/crimp die:
326518

Next I ran it thru the powder thru expander die and also dropped 3.1gr of Titewad in it. It would be 0.5gr for rice. This made it have a waist. You don't need to do this on a .38 or .357 case because it doesn't need to seat on the case mouth.
326519

Next I filled the capsule with shot and also added a second capsule cap over the existing one--doubling the thickness. Either end can be used here if the base has the first 1/8 snipped off(it has a bump which you remove formed in it to locks the capsule together). The double capped end is put down in the case directly on the powder charge. If you use the small capsule base over the bigger cap it will split but it doesn't matter--the seater die will iron it all out.
326520

Run thru the seater die and it scrunches everything together. I rocked a razor blade on the tip and X-cut it to ensure the shot comes out.
326521
326522

It works perfectly and the capsules are tight. If you do with with .38 cases and don't flare them you will have even better retention.

Blowing up a can with the #7.5 shot.
https://youtube.com/shorts/G1QhYi-qOHc?feature=shared

[Electrod47]

Save

[steve urquell]

So I made a procedural error and corrected it to make using the gelatin capsules easier. I was first swaging the cases down in the .380 crimp then resizing in the 9mm die then flaring. In doing that it was losing some of the waist and I needed to double the capsule cap.

I fixed that today by resizing/priming first then swaging, then flaring. That allows me to keep more waist in the case and it no longer needs the second capsule cap to tighten up in the case.

I also thought about doing .38spl with capsules. To get all the extra volume of the capsule I would seat a cardboard wad over the powder then add 1/4" or more of rice then add a filled capsule. Just a capsule would be flush in the .38 case.

326682

[steve urquell]

Ok heres the .38spl. 1 run thru the crimper to swage it down at the neck, 2gr powder, cardboard wad, 11gr of rice on the wad topped with a filled gelatin gapsule for a payload of 26.7gr of rice.

326684

[steve urquell]

Whoa, the .38spl load is devastating.
326687

[sureYnot]

I've been waiting forever for my capsules to arrive so I can steal your ideas (again) and modify them (again). Supposed to come on Tuesday.

[steve urquell]

I've been waiting forever for my capsules to arrive so I can steal your ideas (again) and modify them (again). Supposed to come on Tuesday.

Ha,ha! Steal away. I feel like the capsules are the ultimate way to cram more rice into these things. The powder charge on the .38 is 2.0gr vs .5gr for the 9mm.

One thing you will find out is there is a certain amount of fill on the capsules that allows them to seat and crush down just right. You have to play around with it and your bullet seater setting to get it right.

[sureYnot]

Ha,ha! Steal away. I feel like the capsules are the ultimate way to cram more rice into these things. The powder charge on the .38 is 2.0gr vs .5gr for the 9mm.

One thing you will find out is there is a certain amount of fill on the capsules that allows them to seat and crush down just right. You have to play around with it and your bullet seater setting to get it right.I have a different idea... but I don't want to say, unless it works. Lol

[steve urquell]

I have a different idea... but I don't want to say, unless it works. Lol

Rock on with it. Interested in your results

One thing about it--we are getting better at it.

[steve urquell]

First victim of the 9mm gelatin load just now. 3ft flying and weaving point and shoot. Knocked his guts out.

326690

I turned around and there was a flying stinging deer fly looking thing behind me. Got him with the second barrel from 3ft as well.

[steve urquell]

So I have this huge hornet hanging around. Looks like a European hornet but bigger--maybe a queen? 1.25-1.5" body as big around as a carpenter bee. I could have shot it but it wasn't bugging me so I let it do its thing. If it gets aggressive I'll pop it. The red wasps draw no quarter because they are always in my face.

Which hornet do y'all think this is?
https://youtu.be/4WuykDPmuRE?feature=shared

[HWooldridge]

I don’t know where you live, but those big Asian hornets are now in the far Northwest part of the country.

And if you live in the South, it might be a cicada killer - those will not bother a person.

[steve urquell]

I don’t know where you live, but those big Asian hornets are now in the far Northwest part of the country.

And if you live in the South, it might be a cicada killer - those will not bother a person.

I have Asian hornets here in Arkansas but this guy was much bigger than them.

[sureYnot]

I had a little time to play this morning. Here's where I'm at.

.357 mag brass. 2gn 700X, over powder cardboard wad, .380 case of rice, capsule of rice.
I expect a .38 case would do just as well with exactly the same procedure and amount of rice. It would just require a minor adjustment of the "seat/crimp" die.

When I was crimping my loads with over shot wads, it always wanted to just bend one side. Which was fine for those, but I figured it would probably give me pretty bad runout with the capsules. That may or may not be a problem, but I figured I'd just head that one off at the pass. To that end, I reversed the shaft of the decapping pin on my .300BLK sizing die to make it be a seater/crimper.
https://i.imgur.com/r6tqUK6.jpeg

Here's a closer shot of a couple loaded brass. You can see where a shoulder is just barely being pushed on.
https://i.imgur.com/U39f3nt.jpeg
These are in there SOLID. You are not pulling it back out with your bare hands.

Results: (I've marked each standard sized printer paper with the distance in feet.)
https://i.imgur.com/n6lzxvK.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/vIIj9KA.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/t1Lu6zt.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/nvxeLkR.jpeg

Either the crimp results in enough pressure, or the "seater" weakens the front of the capsule enough that I don't have to score it to get it to break open.
It does build enough pressure to expand the case mouth such that I can seat a new capsule without having to expand the case mouth. The small end of the capsule will drop in but the fatter end requires some force.
I did have 1 of the 5 cases split. But, I have no idea how many times this brass has been fired. So, that may or may not be a thing. The fact that I don't have to expand them to reload should keep the splits to a minimum (I think) as the amount of sizing taking place the 2nd time around is minimal.
On the right is one that I fired and shoved a new capsule in and crimped it.

https://i.imgur.com/K6hTotk.jpeg

I'm out of time for now. I plan to do some lead shot testing soon.

Please steal and mutate the ideas I have stolen and mutated.

I think we're on a good path here. Speer might even lose some shot capsule sales over it. ;)

[dverna]

I had a little time to play this morning. Here's where I'm at.

.357 mag brass. 2gn 700X, over powder cardboard wad, .380 case of rice, capsule of rice.
I expect a .38 case would do just as well with exactly the same procedure and amount of rice. It would just require a minor adjustment of the "seat/crimp" die.

When I was crimping my loads with over shot wads, it always wanted to just bend one side. Which was fine for those, but I figured it would probably give me pretty bad runout with the capsules. That may or may not be a problem, but I figured I'd just head that one off at the pass. To that end, I reversed the shaft of the decapping pin on my .300BLK sizing die to make it be a seater/crimper.
https://i.imgur.com/r6tqUK6.jpeg

Here's a closer shot of a couple loaded brass. You can see where a shoulder is just barely being pushed on.
https://i.imgur.com/U39f3nt.jpeg
These are in there SOLID. You are not pulling it back out with your bare hands.

Results: (I've marked each standard sized printer paper with the distance in feet.)
https://i.imgur.com/n6lzxvK.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/vIIj9KA.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/t1Lu6zt.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/nvxeLkR.jpeg

Either the crimp results in enough pressure, or the "seater" weakens the front of the capsule enough that I don't have to score it to get it to break open.
It does build enough pressure to expand the case mouth such that I can seat a new capsule without having to expand the case mouth. The small end of the capsule will drop in but the fatter end requires some force.
I did have 1 of the 5 cases split. But, I have no idea how many times this brass has been fired. So, that may or may not be a thing. The fact that I don't have to expand them to reload should keep the splits to a minimum (I think) as the amount of sizing taking place the 2nd time around is minimal.
On the right is one that I fired and shoved a new capsule in and crimped it.

https://i.imgur.com/K6hTotk.jpeg

I'm out of time for now. I plan to do some lead shot testing soon.

Please steal and mutate the ideas I have stolen and mutated.

I think we're on a good path here. Speer might even lose some shot capsule sales over it. ;)

Good post!

[sureYnot]

Testing with #8 shot.

I changed nothing in the procedure and loaded up with lead shot. Covered my favorite parts and squeezed off. No "shot shower." Shot did not penetrate but was all stuck in the cardboard. Bumped up to 3gn. Penetrated both sides of the box and the wad of packing paper and bubble wrap that was crammed in it.
Tested at 5 & 10 feet.

https://i.imgur.com/HGmpbzU.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/wtsIATL.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/wXkDDww.jpeg

[elmacgyver0]

You guys have come up with some great ideas.

[steve urquell]

Those loads came out great. Texas by God sent me some #12 shot and I mixed up .38 and 9mm loads with them. I actually got 170gr of shot in the .38. 105gr in the 9mm

[HWooldridge]

FWIW, I use 5-7 grs of 700X in lead shot loads (41 mag through 45 Colt). Rice will obviously take less powder but any amount of lead shot probably needs a bit more ooomph.

[sureYnot]

Those loads came out great. Texas by God sent me some #12 shot and I mixed up .38 and 9mm loads with them. I actually got 170gr of shot in the .38. 105gr in the 9mmThat's what I get, too. Right at 170 in the .357.
I bet that #12 gives a nice pattern.

[steve urquell]

That's what I get, too. Right at 170 in the .357.
I bet that #12 gives a nice pattern.

Brutal pattern. Remember if anyone is loading 9mm a heavy crimp won't work due to seating on the case mouth in the chamber.
326841

[sureYnot]

Brutal pattern. Remember if anyone is loading 9mm a heavy crimp won't work due to seating on the case mouth in the chamber.
326841That sounds like an excuse to own a 9mm revolver. It could pay for itself in brass if you live long enough.

[steve urquell]

That sounds like an excuse to own a 9mm revolver. It could pay for itself in brass if you live long enough.

I like the derringer with the 9mm adapters for this although they also seat on the case mouth. Its small and easy to handle for this work. If I had a tiny .38 I'd be all over it for the increased case capacity. I've only killed 5 copperheads on my property in 24yrs so I doubt I'll need many snake loads but the rice ones have been fun and useful.

[sureYnot]

I like the derringer with the 9mm adapters for this although they also seat on the case mouth. Its small and easy to handle for this work. If I had a tiny .38 I'd be all over it for the increased case capacity. I've only killed 5 copperheads on my property in 24yrs so I doubt I'll need many snake loads but the rice ones have been fun and useful.Don't be wrecking my excuse for me. I haven't even started talking myself into it yet.

[steve urquell]

Don't be wrecking my excuse for me. I haven't even started talking myself into it yet.

Oh, let me try that again:
I don't know how you managed to go this long without a 9mm revolver. I suggest the Czech Alpha-Proj imported by RIA. You MUST have it.
326846
https://revolverguy.com/rock-island-armorys-al-9-0-revolver/

[sureYnot]

Oh, let me try that again:
I don't know how you managed to go this long without a 9mm revolver. I suggest the Czech Alpha-Proj imported by RIA. You MUST have it.
326846
https://revolverguy.com/rock-island-armorys-al-9-0-revolver/

That's better. And I like it. But I got to thinking....
A little piece like you have, should be able to do something like this...

https://i.imgur.com/xq23mPs.jpeg

[steve urquell]

That's better. And I like it. But I got to thinking....
A little piece like you have, should be able to do something like this...

https://i.imgur.com/xq23mPs.jpeg

Lol, it can. No restrictions on length. One thing I was going to point out about our different techniques is that I overload the capsule and let the seater crunch it down. It allows me to get another 30% of payload in the capsule as it is compressed.

[Barry54]

Lol, it can. No restrictions on length. One thing I was going to point out about our different techniques is that I overload the capsule and let the seater crunch it down. It allows me to get another 30% of payload in the capsule as it is compressed.

I need to send you some 454 brass or even 303 British!

[sureYnot]

Lol, it can. No restrictions on length. One thing I was going to point out about our different techniques is that I overload the capsule and let the seater crunch it down. It allows me to get another 30% of payload in the capsule as it is compressed.

I've been playing with that a little. I just made a few dummies with basically packing in as much as I can and still get the capsule together. It looks like it should work great. I figured some would break. But none broke. Good to know you're already doing that.

This is the most fun collaborative field lab exercise I've played in a long time. :)

[steve urquell]

I had considered splitting this thread off and starting another with the title indicating the evolution to the gelatin capsules as I feel that has been a breakthrough in this. But, I'm pretty lazy so I'll just keep running with it.

TexasbyGod sent me some #12 shot to play with (thank you sir) and I loaded one each of 9mm and .38spl with it last night and shot it for patterns. Compared it to the # 7 1/2 shot loads I already had.

Same technique of swaging the necks of the brass down in the .380 seater die, filling the capsule nearly full and letting my bullet seater scruntch it all down and compress it.

Comparison of 9mm #7 1/2 shot to #12:
https://i.imgur.com/vWDDcNC.jpg

9mm, 3.1gr Titewad, 100gr of #7 1/2 shot, 4ft
https://i.imgur.com/7bxiRId.jpg

9mm, 3.1TW, 105gr #12shot, 4ft
https://i.imgur.com/FsUlrwj.jpg

.38spl, 3.1gr TiteWad with a cardboard wad over it with 65gr of #12 shot on the wad and a capsule filled with 105gr of #12 shot: 170gr of lead shot!!
https://i.imgur.com/mA9gzdl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sY09jEq.jpg


I had already charged and wadded the .38 and was shocked to realize I had a 170gr load in it and got nervous about the 3.1gr TiteWad powder charge so I will admit I yanked the trigger off to the side not knowing how hot it was going to be. It was actually really mild lol. Impact is brutal and blew the back off the 2 plastic lawn chairs behind the target. No worries as the chairs were slated for the dumpster.

[steve urquell]

I need to send you some 454 brass or even 303 British!
Geez, you're gonna get me in trouble. I'm guessing the brit has .45LC case dimensions? Would be interesting to swage the neck down to .355 and use the gelatin capsules. Hmm...303 Super Wasp Destroyer? :razz:


I've been playing with that a little. I just made a few dummies with basically packing in as much as I can and still get the capsule together. It looks like it should work great. I figured some would break. But none broke. Good to know you're already doing that.

This is the most fun collaborative field lab exercise I've played in a long time. :)
They are surprisingly tough. One of my pics on here has the overfilled capsule sticking up out of the brass before seating. Probably 3/4".

And yes, this has been fun.

[Barry54]

I assumed the derringer was chambered in 45/410 that you are using the 9mm adaptors in. 303 will chamber just fine in many 410’s. They make everlasting 410 cases. They should hold plenty of rice!

[steve urquell]

I assumed the derringer was chambered in 45/410 that you are using the 9mm adaptors in. 303 will chamber just fine in many 410’s. They make everlasting 410 cases. They should hold plenty of rice!

Interesting. Yep, it is .45/.410.

[dverna]

Nice job again Steve. Those lead loads look awesome!!

[steve urquell]

Nice job again Steve. Those lead loads look awesome!!

Thank you sir. SureYnot did a great job on his as well. The 2 shots of #12 out of the 9mm and .38 did this to the chairs I had the cardboard target backer laying on.

326856

[Texas by God]

Thank you sir. SureYnot did a great job on his as well. The 2 shots of #12 out of the 9mm and .38 did this to the chairs I had the cardboard target backer laying on.

326856

That is that “snake cutting” thing that I was telling you about….[emoji106]


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[elmacgyver0]

Thank you sir. SureYnot did a great job on his as well. The 2 shots of #12 out of the 9mm and .38 did this to the chairs I had the cardboard target backer laying on.

326856

Bet your wife is happy about that.

[steve urquell]

That is that “snake cutting” thing that I was telling you about….[emoji106]
Super dense load and damage for sure. Thanks for the shot. I may shoot a water jug and video it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Super dense load and damage for sure. Thanks for the shot. I may shoot a water jug and video it.

Bet your wife is happy about that.
These were just waiting to go to the dumpster. Not used.

[sureYnot]

Seeing as how I no longer have a .38 but still have plenty brass, I unlazied myself enough to finally reset my die for a .38 case. I figure it's better to abuse that brass as opposed to my precious .357. Exact same load. Worked just swimmingly....for rice. Lead does not tolerate being smashed as much as rice. Or rather, the caps don't tolerate lead being smashed as much. The lead shot was happy to point out that the caps can, and will, break and get jammed in your die. I adjusted this, that, and the other thing, hither and yon (including various sizing, seating & crimping dies) to no avail. Finally accepted defeat and subtracted 30gn from the under capsule payload. I was able to then put more in the capsule, for a net loss of about 20gn total payload, still yielding 150gn. Good enough for who and what it's for. As my reloading room is carpeted, my vacuum is not pleased with the results.

https://i.imgur.com/hOb3SkH.jpeg

[steve urquell]

I thnk your crimp got them before they fully crunched down.. Mine will squash and form into bullet shapes without the crimp touching the case.

[steve urquell]

OK, here's a different spin on it but also to show how I squish the capsule down to increase capacity.

.38 case ran deep into the .380 die to swage it down in size
https://i.imgur.com/pUkoT51.jpg

1 gelatin capsule top filled with # 7 1/2 shot placed directly on top of 3.1gr of TiteWad powder(no wad)
https://i.imgur.com/W2LVzy5.jpg

Each half of the other gelatin capsule filled with #12 shot
https://i.imgur.com/8ifMfM3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4lTLVOE.jpg

A very full capsule that will not fully snap closed placed in the case top down. You can see the edge of the capsule top at the top of the case
https://i.imgur.com/svm2ojO.jpg

Seated using the same .380 seater die I swaged the case down with
https://i.imgur.com/GksvknS.jpg

Now, video of a water jug shot. What is not evident in this is that the shot did not exit and a lot of the water came back at me. I took a bath and had water 20ft back behind me. It all came back. Most of the #12 shot was in the jug. I think this is like a Glaser safety slug. Good God it would mess you up.
https://youtube.com/shorts/d3sofklxkyE?feature=shared

[sureYnot]

380 seater was one of the things I tried. I'm using #8. I don't think it wants to "settle" as well as #12. I might take a whack at it again. But, for now, I'm done with cleaning up shot.

[steve urquell]

380 seater was one of the things I tried. I'm using #8. I don't think it wants to "settle" as well as #12. I might take a whack at it again. But, for now, I'm done with cleaning up shot.

I think you are crimping before the capsule is seated all the way. I just did a 7 1/2 shot load. 50gr of shot in 1/2 a capsule on top of the powder then 110gr in a capsule. 160gr payload.
https://i.imgur.com/6ofqASu.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/P4rvkEZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/g2oMsi1.jpg

ETA: I mat not be having problems here because I can't hit the crimp part of the die since the brass is already swaged as small as the crimp could crimp it.

[sureYnot]

I may have guessed wrong on my shot#. I measured a while back and determined it was #8. (It came in a box of "stuff") Mine weighs 1.1-1.2gn per bb. I get 42-45gn in the "cap" of the capsule, which is less than what you get. It's a compromise between the .380 case and the cut-down .380 case. And it works every time for the under capsule payload. Maybe your capsules are more flexible than mine? They are different brands. Or perhaps it's just more humid where you are? IDK.
To the point...I got away with one capsule cap under the over-filled capsule, for ~155gn total payload. If I get nothing else from your latest post, I've found the best "dipper" for the under-capsule payload. I love brainstorming.

https://i.imgur.com/yKt5osu.jpeg

[steve urquell]

I may have guessed wrong on my shot#. I measured a while back and determined it was #8. (It came in a box of "stuff") Mine weighs 1.1-1.2gn per bb. I get 42-45gn in the "cap" of the capsule, which is less than what you get. It's a compromise between the .380 case and the cut-down .380 case. And it works every time for the under capsule payload. Maybe your capsules are more flexible than mine? They are different brands. Or perhaps it's just more humid where you are? IDK.
To the point...I got away with one capsule cap under the over-filled capsule, for ~155gn total payload. If I get nothing else from your latest post, I've found the best "dipper" for the under-capsule payload. I love brainstorming.

https://i.imgur.com/yKt5osu.jpeg

Yeah, no telling why your won't scrunch down. Sounds like mine may be more bendy. I really like the extra payload in the capsule cap to avoid messing with a wad. I cut down the other end to the same length as the cap so I get use out of both ends. Compared to commercial shot capsules(if you can even find them) this is the deal of the century.

My #7.5 shot measures .090", #12 was .055-.060"

[sureYnot]

Whatever mine is measures 0.092-0.093.
I'm still using wads over powder instead of dropping the cap in. 2 reasons. I'm very cheap ( pronounced "frugal"), and I already put in the work on them. Same reason I still have a pile of pink, 125gn bullets that I'll probably never send. I should probably PIF some and the PC, too. It encouraged my then wife to shoot. Sometimes you gotta trick them into liking your hobbies.

[steve urquell]

So I solved the dilemma of the non-scrunching .38 loads when trying to use a roll crimp. I could not get my .38 dies to seat the capsule before trying to crimp it so the capsule was hanging out of the case too far.

I first ran the cases thru a .38 resizing die and re-primed them.
Then I took the decapping/depriming pin out of my .300BLK sizing die and set the depth to where a .38 case would be crimped by the resizing area where the shoulder of a .300BLK case is.

I found that a 5/16" bolt fits the bore of it perfectly.
I figured out how much bolt length I needed to push the gel capsule to the depth I wanted it using flat washers to set the depth.

Then I just held the bolt down with a 4lb chunk of iron while I seated the capsules. This was for testing only. All I need to do moving forward is to either buy another decapping pin and cut it down as the capsule seater or cut down a bolt to go inside the .300BLK die. The only problem is retention of the bolt so it doesn't fall out the bottom of the die.

These have a full top 1/2 of a capsule full of rice or shot (directly on the powder charge with no wad) under a fully filled capsule on top of it. I overfilled these to where they would barely fit together so I could make sure they would crunch down.

326970

[dverna]

So I solved the dilemma of the non-scrunching .38 loads when trying to use a roll crimp. I could not get my .38 dies to seat the capsule before trying to crimp it so the capsule was hanging out of the case too far.

I first ran the cases thru a .38 resizing die and re-primed them.
Then I took the decapping/depriming pin out of my .300BLK sizing die and set the depth to where a .38 case would be crimped by the resizing area where the shoulder of a .300BLK case is.

I found that a 5/16" bolt fits the bore of it perfectly.
I figured out how much bolt length I needed to push the gel capsule to the depth I wanted it using flat washers to set the depth.

Then I just held the bolt down with a 4lb chunk of iron while I seated the capsules. This was for testing only. All I need to do moving forward is to either buy another decapping pin and cut it down as the capsule seater or cut down a bolt to go inside the .300BLK die. The only problem is retention of the bolt so it doesn't fall out the bottom of the die.

These have a full top 1/2 of a capsule full of rice or shot (directly on the powder charge with no wad) under a fully filled capsule on top of it. I overfilled these to where they would barely fit together so I could make sure they would crunch down.

326970

Very smart and they look good too.

[steve urquell]

Very smart and they look good too.

Thank you. I know on the looking good part too. I wanted these to be clear and look good as well. Doesn't matter to function but it does look more professional. I just had an idea on the capsule seater plunger. I will sort it out and report my findings.

[Shawlerbrook]

Read through this whole thread. I have a flock of carpenter bees buzzing around my log cabin so I am going to try some 38 Spec. rice medicine to thin the flock. Don’t have any Bullseye but have some shotgun powder(700x, 7625) as well as a good selection of others. Looking for some recommendations as a good choice. Will 1 gr be sufficient for a 38 case of rice ?

[steve urquell]

Read through this whole thread. I have a flock of carpenter bees buzzing around my log cabin so I am going to try some 38 Spec. rice medicine to thin the flock. Don’t have any Bullseye but have some shotgun powder(700x, 7625) as well as a good selection of others. Looking for some recommendations as a good choice. Will 1 gr be sufficient for a 38 case of rice ?

2 grains of any shotgun powder is good in the .38 for rice. 3gr for lead shot. I'm actually using powder harvested from Federal 12ga shells I had which had rusty brass.

[Shawlerbrook]

Steve, thanks for the advice .

[steve urquell]

Steve, thanks for the advice .

No problem. Are you going to do the wax capped rice loads or gelatin capsules?

[Shawlerbrook]

Wax capped

[steve urquell]

Wax capped

They'll do fine in .38. It's more critical to get more volume in the 9mm using capsules than the .38. Be careful of any wood behind the shot. The wax plug will dent it.

[Shawlerbrook]

Thanks ! I plan on wing shooting.

[Shawlerbrook]

Steve, wax plug directly over the rice and about 1/8” thick ?

[steve urquell]

Steve, wax plug directly over the rice and about 1/8” thick ?

Yep. Wax is fairly weak though and won't take much abuse to knock it out. I had the lead shot ones with wax fall apart in my pocket. Rice is more tolerant because it is lighter in weight.

[sureYnot]

So I solved the dilemma of the non-scrunching .38 loads when trying to use a roll crimp. I could not get my .38 dies to seat the capsule before trying to crimp it so the capsule was hanging out of the case too far.

I first ran the cases thru a .38 resizing die and re-primed them.
Then I took the decapping/depriming pin out of my .300BLK sizing die and set the depth to where a .38 case would be crimped by the resizing area where the shoulder of a .300BLK case is.

I found that a 5/16" bolt fits the bore of it perfectly.
I figured out how much bolt length I needed to push the gel capsule to the depth I wanted it using flat washers to set the depth.

Then I just held the bolt down with a 4lb chunk of iron while I seated the capsules. This was for testing only. All I need to do moving forward is to either buy another decapping pin and cut it down as the capsule seater or cut down a bolt to go inside the .300BLK die. The only problem is retention of the bolt so it doesn't fall out the bottom of the die.

These have a full top 1/2 of a capsule full of rice or shot (directly on the powder charge with no wad) under a fully filled capsule on top of it. I overfilled these to where they would barely fit together so I could make sure they would crunch down.

326970

I turned the decapping pin around so it's pointy end up. Also removed the pointy part so it still fits in the box. Could maybe put a small nut on it if you need more bearing surface.

https://i.imgur.com/KKkCwYE.jpeg

Edit: Nevermind about putting a nut on. There isn't really room for anything.

https://i.imgur.com/DuCMeUy.jpeg

[steve urquell]

I got a new weapon to assist in my silliness with this. I have a Lee PRO1000 set up for 9mm that runs great and I do not want to change its' settings so I was using my old hand-me-down RCBS single stage press and die changing was getting old.

I'd been looking at turret presses then checked here and found one in S&S. Thanks to Bjornb I now have an old Lee 3-hole turret press. It is super-simple with manual die rotation. I really like it. I put in my .380 resizer die, neck expander and .38spl seater die and loaded a few 9mm #12 shot loads(Thanks again to TXbyGod for the shot)

Capsules held 115gr of #12 over 3.1gr of TiteWad
https://i.imgur.com/DujjjWI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1NlVyMo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/esQD9pK.jpg

[Texas by God]

I’ve ordered some of those capsules.[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[steve urquell]

I’ve ordered some of those capsules.[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are a bargain compared to capsules designed for shot. The bullet seater makes a big difference in how these squish down into the case. My 9mm seater plug seems to do the best.

[sureYnot]

Steve's going to have us hunting geese with .380 pistols by the time he's done playing with this. Lol
I'm actually looking forward to the next carpenter bee season.

[steve urquell]

Steve's going to have us hunting geese with .380 pistols by the time he's done playing with this. Lol
I'm actually looking forward to the next carpenter bee season.

[smilie=f::guntootsmiley:
Hmm... .380 huh? Challenging.
It looks like I really put the hurt on my wasp population here. I don't see any wasps on my porch anymore. Weird how 10-20 can make it seem like your house is infested.

[sureYnot]

[smilie=f::guntootsmiley:
Hmm... .380 huh? Challenging.
It looks like I really put the hurt on my wasp population here. I don't see any wasps on my porch anymore. Weird how 10-20 can make it seem like your house is infested.Agreed. I'd have sworn I had hundreds around.

.380... well, I may have exaggerated slightly. But the time and resources (probably some blood and tears, if your wife saw any of that damage from early on) that you've spent on this is pretty cool... and appreciated.
That's a thanks and a compliment.
What next, fearless leader?

[steve urquell]

Agreed. I'd have sworn I had hundreds around.

.380... well, I may have exaggerated slightly. But the time and resources (probably some blood and tears, if your wife saw any of that damage from early on) that you've spent on this is pretty cool... and appreciated.
That's a thanks and a compliment.
What next, fearless leader?

Ha, ha. Thanks. Maybe miniature nets for live capture a'la Planet of the Apes?

[steve urquell]

About 30ft from my front door I have a suet cake to feed the birds. The squirrels have been raiding it non-stop lately and it's not making me happy. I was coating it in cayenne which helped some but once the birds ate a spot away from it the squirrels decimated it.

Squirrels are doing what they do and I don't want to kill them so I loaded some cayenne loads today. Looks like I'm reaching the suet cake with the powder. I stacked 2 full capsules and let the seater crunch them down. The one below was one half of a capsule(the long end) filled and in the case with another full capsule on top of it and seated by hand.

Can't wait to see if this works lol. Video below

ETA: I did get a whiff of the pepper after that shot. Nose is feeling like I sniffed Vicks vapor rub.

327205

https://youtu.be/RIG0tPfVhWA?feature=shared

[HWooldridge]

About 30ft from my front door I have a suet cake to feed the birds. The squirrels have been raiding it non-stop lately and it's not making me happy. I was coating it in cayenne which helped some but once the birds ate a spot away from it the squirrels decimated it.

Squirrels are doing what they do and I don't want to kill them so I loaded some cayenne loads today. Looks like I'm reaching the suet cake with the powder. I stacked 2 full capsules and let the seater crunch them down. The one below was one half of a capsule(the long end) filled and in the case with another full capsule on top of it and seated by hand.

Can't wait to see if this works lol. Video below

327205

https://youtu.be/RIG0tPfVhWA?feature=shared

That load would work as a dog repellent if you decide to carry a .38 while walking. Better than shooting them in the face with bird shot.

[steve urquell]

That load would work as a dog repellent if you decide to carry a .38 while walking. Better than shooting them in the face with bird shot.

Or someone acting sassy. What I could not get on vid is the cloud that comes out. It's pretty good. Up close and personal would put you on your knees. The capsule flies about 45ft and would hurt like a son-of-a-gun. I have another side view vid where you can see the capsule hit the driveway.

[steve urquell]

Here's where I was testing with corn starch. You can see a puff of powder hit the tree. Not sure if that's the bottom capsule opening up on impact or not.
https://youtu.be/igDLk4Q8VPA?feature=shared

[steve urquell]

After a lil playing around I got it how I want it.
1) 2.0gr shotgun powder

2) Long half of a capsule full of cayenne is placed in the case then top off the case with more cayenne

3) Another full capsule mashed down on top of that seated by hand and the tip cut with a razor blade

327209

[Bronco72]

Wish the had some horse capsules to fit a 44.
Looked online and could not find any. only would fit 357
If anyone knows of some that would fit a 44 let me know please!

[steve urquell]

Wish the had some horse capsules to fit a 44.
Looked online and could not find any. only would fit 357
If anyone knows of some that would fit a 44 let me know please!

The bigger cases hold a good amount of material with just a wax cap like I did in the first few posts.

[steve urquell]

327211

Here's the 9mm cayenne version. There is a ton of wiggle room on these cayenne loads. I filled the top of a capsule and dropped it in the case directly on the gunpowder then packed it down with a pencil. The cayenne packed down halfway and I filled it again to the case mouth.

Filled a capsule and packed it as well then seated it with the 9mm seater. The 9mm probably has much more powder than the earlier .38 loads because of the packing. The .38 can hold a ton more cayenne with packing as well.

Here's me shooting towards the camera with the packed 9mm load

https://youtube.com/shorts/Yx7ONg3QPVg?feature=shared

[Texas by God]

You can make a pot of chili “just right” the FUN way!
Outdoors of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[steve urquell]

You can make a pot of chili “just right” the FUN way!
Outdoors of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:lol:
Imagine spicing up someone's bowl at the table.

[sureYnot]

I still have a couple of quarts of habanero powder from the last time I grew them.
I'm tempted, but I might stay away from this idea due to a traumatic experience.
Word to the wise. You CANNOT wash your hands good enough after processing a few gallons of habaneros. Either use gloves, or don't use the restroom for a good 24 hours, or you will find yourself using a glass of milk in a way you never would have thought of in a million years. (I was quite desperate.)
Try not to visualize. But feel free to laugh at my expense.

[Recycled bullet]

Ever since I started reading this thread the carpenter bees have gone into hiding.
I can't even sneak up on em with a wooden paddle I bought, they see me and fly up, up, up and away.

Sent from my SM-S546VL using Tapatalk

[steve urquell]

I still have a couple of quarts of habanero powder from the last time I grew them.
I'm tempted, but I might stay away from this idea due to a traumatic experience.
Word to the wise. You CANNOT wash your hands good enough after processing a few gallons of habaneros. Either use gloves, or don't use the restroom for a good 24 hours, or you will find yourself using a glass of milk in a way you never would have thought of in a million years. (I was quite desperate.)
Try not to visualize. But feel free to laugh at my expense.
Definitely not something you wanna be sniffing.


Ever since I started reading this thread the carpenter bees have gone into hiding.
I can't even sneak up on em with a wooden paddle I bought, they see me and fly up, up, up and away.

Sent from my SM-S546VL using Tapatalk
My wasps have been scarce as well.

I shot a .38 at a squirrel this morning. No effect at all. I don't think it reached enough to make him squirm.

[Shawlerbrook]

When I read the 380 goose hunting post it reminded me of the coyote I shot with my AMT 380 Backup a few years ago. Definitely not the weapon of choice and takes a fair amount of luck.

[steve urquell]

When I read the 380 goose hunting post it reminded me of the coyote I shot with my AMT 380 Backup a few years ago. Definitely not the weapon of choice and takes a fair amount of luck.

That would be with a little pocket auto like the AMT

[Shawlerbrook]

Yessir, not your average coyote gun.

[dverna]

I think I may have success.

I used the .38 Spl cases from C&R Wax that I had mentioned on another post...link below. They use a 209 primer and like Geroge has advised me, the primer pocket is a bit too large for an American primer. I did not have any Cheddite primers so I used some nail polish to hold the Remington 209 primers in the pocket. This may resolve itself as I load the cases more times and keep adding more layers of nail polish, but it is not a big issue. $37/50 is not cheap but easy and that is a lifetime supply.

https://candrwax.com/ols/products/50--38-caliber-209-cases-includes-us-domestic-shipping

Next I tried my 9mm straw and it worked OK if I slit the straw and pushed it all the way to the bottom and then crimped it in place. If I did not push the straw all the way down, the straw would blow out even with a crimp. Not good. I used the 000 capsules to cap the straw.

My last test is shown below. Sames cases/primers but no straw. I used the small diameter part of the capsule (longer part). But it is too tight a fit. To make it work, I cut about 1/8" off the bottom and slit the capsule from top to bottom. This allows the capsule sides to slip by a bit as it is pushed into the case.

With the primed case, I filled the case to about 1/8 of the top using Acini di Pepe pasta. I then filled the cut down/split capsule about 1/2 full and pushed it into the case. I am sure rice would work but the pasta is rounder and might fly better. Now that may be BS, but I had a pound that was over 15 years old, and decided to use it...LOL.

Below is a picture of the three test rounds and targets. Target are 6" square center pasters from my old ISU pistol days . All fired at 6 feet.

327392

327393

327394

327395

Pros:
No dies needed
No powder needed (TBD)
No over powder wad.
No wad "impact" on siding.
Can be used without hearing protection. Sounds like a cap gun.
Uses cheaper 209 primers so I can conserve my SP primers

Cons:
Require special cases that will use 209's
Need to modify capsules to work well.
Capsule is held by friction only. Should work OK for me but I only "hunt" at home.

TBD:
When chambered, where capsule split is oriented may affect center of pattern.
Not sure if it will kill wasps. Will update after "field trials". Might need a bit of powder.
Have not shot a cylinder full to see if cylinder binds from capsule shifting. Hope not to crimp.
Might work with shot for "snake/rat loads" but would need powder/crimp.

Once I "harvest" a few critters I will update on performance.

[steve urquell]

I think I may have success.

I used the .38 Spl cases from C&R Wax that I had mentioned on another post...link below. They use a 209 primer and like Geroge has advised me, the primer pocket is a bit too large for an American primer. I did not have any Cheddite primers so I used some nail polish to hold the Remington 209 primers in the pocket. This may resolve itself as I load the cases more times and keep adding more layers of nail polish, but it is not a big issue. $37/50 is not cheap but easy and that is a lifetime supply.

https://candrwax.com/ols/products/50--38-caliber-209-cases-includes-us-domestic-shipping

Next I tried my 9mm straw and it worked OK if I slit the straw and pushed it all the way to the bottom and then crimped it in place. If I did not push the straw all the way down, the straw would blow out even with a crimp. Not good. I used the 000 capsules to cap the straw.

My last test is shown below. Sames cases/primers but no straw. I used the small diameter part of the capsule (longer part). But it is too tight a fit. To make it work, I cut about 1/8" off the bottom and slit the capsule from top to bottom. This allows the capsule sides to slip by a bit as it is pushed into the case.

With the primed case, I filled the case to about 1/8 of the top using Acini di Pepe pasta. I then filled the cut down/split capsule about 1/2 full and pushed it into the case. I am sure rice would work but the pasta is rounder and might fly better. Now that may be BS, but I had a pound that was over 15 years old, and decided to use it...LOL.

Below is a picture of the three test rounds and targets. Target are 6" square center pasters from my old ISU pistol days . All fired at 6 feet.

327392

327393

327394

327395

Pros:
No dies needed
No powder needed (TBD)
No over powder wad.
No wad "impact" on siding.
Can be used without hearing protection. Sounds like a cap gun.
Uses cheaper 209 primers so I can conserve my SP primers

Cons:
Require special cases that will use 209's
Need to modify capsules to work well.
Capsule is held by friction only. Should work OK for me but I only "hunt" at home.

TBD:
When chambered, where capsule split is oriented may affect center of pattern.
Not sure if it will kill wasps. Will update after "field trials". Might need a bit of powder.
Have not shot a cylinder full to see if cylinder binds from capsule shifting. Hope not to crimp.
Might work with shot for "snake/rat loads" but would need powder/crimp.

Once I "harvest" a few critters I will update on performance.
https://i.imgur.com/2MuwHPr.gif

Glad you finally got it going your way. I would have used the pasta as well. The reason I used rice is because I had some old rice sitting around. Looking forward to your results on flying insects.

For the capsule loads as we were doing them later in this thread on .38 I did away did away with the wad and used a rice filled capsule half directly on the powder charge with another filled capsule on top of it--no wad.

With the .38 spl 2gr powder charge or .5-1gr 9mm loads hey are hearing safe. The lead shot loads need hearing protection.

I've been buying Servicios small pistol primers for $50/1000 and they work fine--no misfires. Here they are with free shipping over $150. https://normausa.com/product/blowout/primers-b/small-pistol-primers/

I had some of the 000 capsules in my Amazon cart when I ordered the 00 ones but took them out knowing I would have to slit them to work. If anyone is wondering on size the 000 bottom half is .375" diameter and the cap is .390".

Good to have another player in here. Thanks for posting your results.

[Adam Helmer]

Why not just go to Walmart for 2 cans of Wasp Spray and save the rice for puddings?

Adam

[Recycled bullet]

To shoot the cake and eat it too

[steve urquell]

Why not just go to Walmart for 2 cans of Wasp Spray and save the rice for puddings?

Adam
Do you go into precision target shooting threads and ask "Why don't you just take a piece of paper and poke a hole in it with a pencil?"

Do you go into hunting threads and say "Why don't you just go to the grocery store and buy meat?"

This forum is for people who shoot, reload ammo, cast boolits and enjoy shooting sports. Personally I have gotten more enjoyment in loading these loads and shooting wasps and have enjoyed the camaraderie of those who have participated in this thread more than any shooting endeavor in years.

It is fun shooting wasps and has been fun working up loads for it. I no longer have wasps in my face on the porch and when they come to it I am actually happy to see them lol. Plus the rice was old and stale.

To shoot the cake and eat it too
Ha, ha, ha! You get it. :lol:

[Texas by God]

This guy is busy building a fire lapping round[emoji1787]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240613/164fdd1c6cfd924ed945676ee85b214f.jpg
I checked all the rifles in the shop - then taped their muzzles!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[steve urquell]

This guy is busy building a fire lapping round[emoji1787]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240613/164fdd1c6cfd924ed945676ee85b214f.jpg
I checked all the rifles in the shop - then taped their muzzles!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh man that would be too much of an opportunity to pass up. I would blast that devil lol. Meet the rice chump!

My wasping has ramped up a bit. I just popped 4 tonight. I put my small grips on the derringer. My FIL helped me make a pair out of oak ~30 years ago. The nut for the screw is a .410 case head with a brass nut soldered in it.
327577

[Recycled bullet]

Rice shot howdah pistol in his fist, he looks around, his senses scanning for the flying foe.

[steve urquell]

Rice shot howdah pistol in his fist, he looks around, his senses scanning for the flying foe.

https://i.imgur.com/P02ZffE.gif

Eyeing down the dangerous game responsible for 50 deaths per year his resolve is steeled with the knowledge that all who have faced it have fallen to the 9-Long-Grain...

[dverna]

Making these wasp loads has been a fun challenge.

I have pissed away enough money to buy 10 cans of wasp spray. But this is still cheap compared to shooting 15-20k rounds in Trap shooting a year.

I can’t wait to have a visitor over and see his reaction when I pick up the K38 and aim it at a wasp. The jungle telegraph will be singing.

Steve, thanks for starting me down the rabbit hole.

[steve urquell]

Making these wasp loads has been a fun challenge.

I have pissed away enough money to buy 10 cans of wasp spray. But this is still cheap compared to shooting 15-20k rounds in Trap shooting a year.

I can’t wait to have a visitor over and see his reaction when I pick up the K38 and aim it at a wasp. The jungle telegraph will be singing.

Steve, thanks for starting me down the rabbit hole.
Glad to have given you some enjoyment. Even if it is a silly endeavor it has been fun. I grin like an idiot every time I send a wasp to meet Jesus.

I have shot my derringer 50X more doing this than I have since I bought it in 1990. It has sat in the drawer for years only coming out when someone wants to know what it's like to blast .410 out of a tiny pistol. One shot and done for most. TBH it has only been a novelty. I'm glad to have found a new purpose and enjoyment from it.

[fastdadio]

I just found a bag of chia seeds in Fastlady's cupboard. Made me think of you guys. These seeds are really tiny or fine, mostly round-ish, consistent in shape, and quite hard. Should make for some excellent bug shot.
https://www.walmart.com/tp/chia-seeds

[steve urquell]

I just found a bag of chia seeds in Fastlady's cupboard. Made me think of you guys. These seeds are really tiny or fine, mostly round-ish, consistent in shape, and quite hard. Should make for some excellent bug shot.
https://www.walmart.com/tp/chia-seeds

It must be done. Load some up and see what happens.

[steve urquell]

Look what I found on FB Marketplace. I sent a message that I want to pick up a lb each of .310-.360. New experimentation coming. The .310 -.330s will fit inside a capsule.
Maybe double ball .360 9mm/.38spl?

https://i.imgur.com/RJ1c2BS.png
https://i.imgur.com/wc5YeC6.png

[Barry54]

Do you go into precision target shooting threads and ask "Why don't you just take a piece of paper and poke a hole in it with a pencil?"

Do you go into hunting threads and say "Why don't you just go to the grocery store and buy meat?"

This forum is for people who shoot, reload ammo, cast boolits and enjoy shooting sports. Personally I have gotten more enjoyment in loading these loads and shooting wasps and have enjoyed the camaraderie of those who have participated in this thread more than any shooting endeavor in years.

It is fun shooting wasps and has been fun working up loads for it. I no longer have wasps in my face on the porch and when they come to it I am actually happy to see them lol. Plus the rice was old and stale.

Ha, ha, ha! You get it. :lol:

Not hating on the new commenter on the thread, but yes, well said. I could have bought some greasy beef cheaper than my firearms expenditure to eat venison. But the journey or chase is part of the enjoyment for many of us. I prefer the wasps over spiders, but still enjoy reading this thread!

I’ve got some auction 454 loads sitting around. I’ll pull the bullets and fertilize the flower bed, if you want some large capacity cases to test for this thread? Send me a pm with your address to send you a dozen or so.

[Texas by God]

Look what I found on FB Marketplace. I sent a message that I want to pick up a lb each of .310-.360. New experimentation coming. The .310 -.330s will fit inside a capsule.
Maybe double ball .360 9mm/.38spl?

https://i.imgur.com/RJ1c2BS.png
https://i.imgur.com/wc5YeC6.png

I’ve killed quite a few squirrels with a .310” ball from .30 caliber rifles- mostly 30-30. Using the capsule for a sabot is interesting stuff.


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[steve urquell]

Not hating on the new commenter on the thread, but yes, well said. I could have bought some greasy beef cheaper than my firearms expenditure to eat venison. But the journey or chase is part of the enjoyment for many of us. I prefer the wasps over spiders, but still enjoy reading this thread!

I’ve got some auction 454 loads sitting around. I’ll pull the bullets and fertilize the flower bed, if you want some large capacity cases to test for this thread? Send me a pm with your address to send you a dozen or so.
Yep, nearly everyone on this site loves shooting, reloading and tinkering with guns. Doesn't matter what you are doing with them it's all about enjoying the hobby.

I would love to have that brass but I insist I pay for the shipping. Thanks you so much for the offer. PM sent

I’ve killed quite a few squirrels with a .310” ball from .30 caliber rifles- mostly 30-30. Using the capsule for a sabot is interesting stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah played with it a little:

OK so first I loaded (3) .310" balls into a capsule then thought about it and put the next .320" 3rd one in the capsule top which worked fine.
https://i.imgur.com/lOh9CwE.jpg

I tried (3) .330" but they just jammed up in the bullet seater so it was a wash
https://i.imgur.com/3q8E4JA.jpg

So the (2) .310" with (1) .320s worked good, can also seat (3) .320s in the capsule without a problem
https://i.imgur.com/zOloF0I.jpg

I was having problems with one of my adapters firing and was dorking around with it. One case head seat is deep on the derringer and the 9mm cases sit slightly low in the adaptersso I have a few misfires. Anyways the group was after me dorking around and getting misfires and I wasn't focused so I think the group could be much better. 10ft
https://i.imgur.com/TVJIIr3.jpg

Finally tried (2) .360" balls with no capsule and the grouping was terrible. Not gonna bother with them unless someone has a good idea on how to make them work.
https://i.imgur.com/VLnCygd.jpg

[Shawlerbrook]

The why question reminds me of asking skydivers why they jump out of a perfectly good plane or a mountain climber why they climb. Unless you are like most of us the rest of the world just doesn’t get it.

[steve urquell]

The why question reminds me of asking skydivers why they jump out of a perfectly good plane or a mountain climber why they climb. Unless you are like most of us the rest of the world just doesn’t get it.

It's weird to hear it on a gun forum though--and in a shot load forum no less.

[fastdadio]

How big are the bugs you're hunting with tri-ball buck shot loads? Remind me not to come over to your house....
:kidding:

[steve urquell]

How big are the bugs you're hunting with tri-ball buck shot loads? Remind me not to come over to your house....
:kidding:

Giant wood lice
https://i.imgur.com/Z2oVgyS.jpg