Isit worth Powder Coating apart from purely cosmetic reasons?

[braddock]

I've kitted myself out with the gear to powder coat boolits but I'm starting to wonder if I've done the right thing.
I've seen a fistfull of youtubes where PC loads were tested alongside identical loads except that the latter were plain lubed (in most cases it was with Lees liquid alox) and the PC loads were always significantly down on velocity and showed no improvement in accuracy.
I wanted to PC my boolits in 30 cal and 357 formy three carbines and tbh I'm having serious second thoughts.
Can anyone convince me that these youtubes were bs or why they aren't bs and liqid alox is the way to go.

[Finster101]

It is to me. Cleaner on my hands when loading mags, no smoke from lube and being capable of faster velocities if desired. I hated the mess of using a lube sizer and handling the boolits afterward. Don't understand the claims of PC being down on velocity.

[2TM101]

I powder coat everything for Smokeless now. Not only cleaner shooting and cleaner handling, especially in the case of tumble lubed stuff, but you wind up touching lead a lot less. Powder coated bullets also don't lead the bore, at least significantly. I have recovered the bullets downrange and all of the powder coating is still on them, so I don't see where any lead could have come off.

I DO pan lube for black powder carts but thats for powder fouling and not leading. Now I have seen cases of bullets powder coated, pan lubed AND have a gas check on them. Apparently it gives you a velocity advantage to do all three but I have no idea how much.

[Nines&Twos]

I have one mold in particular that drops a gorgeous little 200g bullet measuring .4505-.451
P/C makes this large enough to shoot extremely well and I don't have to fool with clumsy beagleing methods or lapping out the mold.
The only place I have seen P/C be a nuisance is with a snug bore rider. I got rid of all my bore rider molds long ago and problem solved.
I wouldn't go back to lubing a cast bullet if I was given a new Star for every caliber. ..but to each his own.

[Thumbcocker]

I can see where it would be viable for someone just getting into casting on a limited budget. If I was just getting started I would look real hard at it.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[fordwannabe]

I have a lyman 45 still bolted to my bench but it may well rust in place. I have not seen a velocity decrease at all, in most of my boolits it has increased the velocity for the same charge. I also love the ability to custom size each mold due to powder thickness. I was just handling some red lubed 50-90 bullets for my friends rolling block. It reiterated why I love PC, sticky gooey messy bullets. I have LOTS of different powders for PC but I but the clear about 3 to one for all the others. AND with PC I can use lead bullets in my suppressed guns without worrying about lead buildup.

[Bass Ackward]

Better than 70 years ago, Speer taught us the benefit of a “jacketed” bullet. It eliminates almost everything you need to know or understand outside of reloading and molding. All we did was trade jacketed material that we couldn’t apply ourselves to one we can.

[Kraschenbirn]

While I pan-lube for all my BPCR calibers, I've been powder coating everything else for several years without encountering any disadvantage. In my experience, accuracy is about a 50-50 toss-up (I zeroed a new scope on one of my .308s this morning and my 200-yd groups with PC'd boolits averaged just a smidge under 3" CTC.) and, regardless of what's on YouTube, my (rifle) MVs actually chrono 2%-3% higher with PC.

Bill

[405grain]

braddock: Though youtube videos can be very informative, there are also videos that claim that the pyramids were built by space aliens, or that you can make a birthday cake using nothing but peanut butter and mayonnaise. you'll find just as many videos for powder coating as you will against it. There are lots of benefits to powder coating. You'll have to decide if it's the right process for you. Second guessing something even before you've tried it will only hold you back from the enjoyment of adventure and discovery. Give it a shot and see if you like it. Better yet, if you have facilities to do both lubed and powder coated bullets, make both and do your own side by side comparison to see which works best for you.

[Walter Laich]

living in The Republic I can say our summers are a mite warm. PC doesn't melt like the lube did.

also machines stay cleaner without the lube getting all over them

[Nines&Twos]

also machines stay cleaner without the lube getting all over them


No kidding...who misses a loaded up seating die? Not this guy.

[jdgabbard]

Man, I wasn't sure about it either. It seemed like a lot of hassle, and extra equipment to deal with, not to mention adding another step... Then I did it......

Let me tell you, THIS IS THE WAY. You don't have to mess with a lubesizer, top punches, or figuring out which lube works best for which bullet. You don't have to worry about as much lead exposure since the bullets are coated. That means you can touch them without having to worry about washing your hands ever few minutes, you can shoot them at indoor ranges without upsetting the range officers, you don't have to worry about your tumble lube picking up debris.... The list really does go on and on...

You cast, you tumble in a your powder with some airsoft BBs, bake at 400-415 for 30 minutes after getting to temperature, then use a push through sizer. If you need a gascheck, seat your checks then run through the sizer. I'm seriously starting to wonder if gaschecks are even needed anymore for rounds under 2000fps....

Lots of people are holding out, but the truth is THIS IS THE WAY.

[2TM101]

While I pan-lube for all my BPCR calibers, I've been powder coating everything else for several years without encountering any disadvantage. In my experience, accuracy is about a 50-50 toss-up

And the follow on question is at what point do you need powder coating AND a gas check. I just watched some videos on how to make plain base gas checks and put them on. Almost looks like what we used to call half or quarter jacketed bullets. But no specific numbers given. I was hoping to find something like "powder coat is good to 1800 fps, add a gas check and good to 2400" or some such. Or just gas check =+?fps.

[Bazoo]

The main attraction to me for PCing is: It will bump the diameter of a slightly underside bullet, and that it will allow you to shoot lead bullets through a gun with minor dimensional issues without leading.

It may be cleaner, but, that isn't an issue for me. I generally use lubed bullets anywhere I can.

[braddock]

braddock: Though youtube videos can be very informative, there are also videos that claim that the pyramids were built by space aliens, or that you can make a birthday cake using nothing but peanut butter and mayonnaise. you'll find just as many videos for powder coating as you will against it. There are lots of benefits to powder coating. You'll have to decide if it's the right process for you. Second guessing something even before you've tried it will only hold you back from the enjoyment of adventure and discovery. Give it a shot and see if you like it. Better yet, if you have facilities to do both lubed and powder coated bullets, make both and do your own side by side comparison to see which works best for you.

You're dang right. I should have thought that myself.I'll give it a swing as I have time to knock out a couple hundred 358 and 309 boolits on Thursday, just hope I get the mix of pure lead, range lead and linotype just so.

[porthos]

well, i don't mind getting my hands dirty; and, my bullets go as fast as i want them to go.....

[Finster101]

well, i don't mind getting my hands dirty; and, my bullets go as fast as i want them to go.....


HEATHEN ! :drinks:

[P Flados]

I found Powder coat a valuable tool and use it for all of my higher power cast bullet ammo.

I have been able to obtain zero leading loads with powder coat for full power 44 magnum, 357 Maximum, 357 Magnum, 9mm, 327 Fed, 300 BO, 30 Herrett, 7 TCU. For these applications, my attempts at using tumble lube did not achieve zero leading.

Tumble lube is much easier and I use it for lower power level stuff. This is mostly for 45 ACP, 38 Special, 380, various 32s, low power 9mm (one specific gun), and "mouse fart" loads in 7 TCU & 30 Herrett.

On the flip side, it took a bunch of effort to get leading free performance in 9mm even with PC. Some magnum revolvers can also be problematic. If your bullets are too small and cartridge pressure is high enough, blow by past a PC bullet can still result in bad leading.

[charlie b]

I use PC on all my pistol bullets. No need for gas checks at the velocities I shoot (..357mag).

For rifles it depends on the bullet. My bore riders I like to PC, but, it takes a lot more work, cast, size body, size nose, PC, size nose, size body. When sub-MOA is the goal sometimes it takes more effort.

OTOH, my most used rifle bullet is a 'std' shape (XCB) and is convential lube (RCBS sizer). Much faster to make them.

Accuracy is a toss up. I've shot PC and conventional sized the same with the same loads on same day. My most accurate load has been the PC bore rider, but, it is just barely better (even out to 500yd). Most would not notice the difference unless many rounds were fired.

[Hillbillyhunter]

I like coated bullets for all of the reasons already stated. I don't see going back. I do still load uncoated bullets, but usually only when I get them in an estate or yard sale find as part of a bigger package.

[P Flados]

... I'm seriously starting to wonder if gaschecks are even needed anymore for rounds under 2000fps....

I use mostly plain base and have no application where I am even trying to go faster than just a little over 2000 fps.

Some boolits intended for use with gas checks shoot fine without. Some on the other hand seem to be more accurate with the check. My 7 TCU is definitely more accurate with the check installed on my Lee 128, but I think this may be more of the bullet staying better aligned in the case neck at my desired COAL.

The one application where I see a gas check as strongly recommended is for gas guns like the AR-15. In 300 BO guns and in a 357 Max AR, I had lead deposits in the bolt area when shooting without gas checks. This tells me that the base of the bullet was being gas cut as the base travels over the port. These applications also seem to have more than typical flyers. Again I attribute this to the same bullet base damage described above.

[jdgabbard]

I use mostly plain base and have no application where I am even trying to go faster than just a little over 2000 fps.

Some boolits intended for use with gas checks shoot fine without. Some on the other hand seem to be more accurate with the check. My 7 TCU is definitely more accurate with the check installed on my Lee 128, but I think this may be more of the bullet staying better aligned in the case neck at my desired COAL.

The one application where I see a gas check as strongly recommended is for gas guns like the AR-15. In 300 BO guns and in a 357 Max AR, I had lead deposits in the bolt area when shooting without gas checks. This tells me that the base of the bullet was being gas cut as the base travels over the port. These applications also seem to have more than typical flyers. Again I attribute this to the same bullet base damage described above.

I was referring to the general use of powdercoated bullets. I haven't found an application where I need a GC due to speed issues when PCing. Sure, AR type rifles can also benefit from this. But I'm not normally shooting cast out of my AR type rifles. If I had a 300blk maybe....

[Hick]

You asked for one good example, and I have several: I have a plain based spire point 175 grain mold that I use with my Enfield (303 British). Lubed it is OK, but powder coated I can drive it to a faster velocity than with lube and it is very, very accurate-- the rifle loves it. 30-30 Lyman 311410 (another plain based mold) with PC it runs much, much better than lubed. With an extra cost of PC to bump up the size to 0.311 the same bullet is great in my CZ-527 in 7.62 x 39 (it has a 0.311 barrel). I had an old Ideal 321-427 single cavity that shot so-so in my 32 WS. Its a gas check mold. Drilled out the mold to make it plain based and it shoots so much better with PC. Add to that, I don't have to keep spending money on Gas checks to get to higher velocities (checks are more expensive per bullet than PC).

[dverna]

You should try both methods and see what works best for you.

I will never PC but that is what works for me. I may be “wrong”, but I can live with it.

Too much to discuss to get into it here. In the end, no one really cares. Do what is best for your needs.

[35 Rem]

The fact that you don't get any smoke with PC is enough to make me steer clear of it. :) I love the smoke especially from my single action revolvers. But then I only shoot outdoors on my farm.

[THE_ANTIDOTE]

I powder coat just because I can...

[atfsux]

For me, the biggest gain is in keeping my health. Because the lead is completely encapsulated, there is no longer (or at least very little) atomized airborne micro lead particles created and dispersed in the air with the muzzleblast. At an indoor range is where this is most greatly realized as a benefit to preventing accidentally inhaling and ingesting lead. But even on an outdoor range, when the wind is blowing back in your face.

[8mmFan]

I have not started PC’ing boolits yet. That said, I do intend to get to it eventually. My reason for wanting to go that route is that I have always thought that you could get higher speeds with softer alloys without leading. I am down to a fair amount of pure lead…and not much else. Am I wrong that powder coating allows you to push a soft boolit a little faster, all else equal?

8mmFan

[THE_ANTIDOTE]

I stopped caring about bullet hardness once I started powder coating. I only had roofing lead at the time when I started casting and was scared into believing I was going to foul up my barrel and worse..."KENTUCKY BALLISTIC" myself. I obtained materials to harden my bullets, but have not seen much of a performance difference between my pure pc lead and the hard pc lead but I only shoot 1100-1800 fps. Expansion is not real important to me anymore either as anything that is hit with my .44, ..454, .460, 45-70/90, or 500 is going to feel it regardless. Depending on what I am shooting at seems to determine my bullet expansion for the most part. I would have to catch a few bullets in mid air to see what/if any differences there would be prior to hitting the target. So, I now just shoot soft lead with a good coating of powder coat. If I was to go back to hard bullets...babbitt would be my choice again.

[jsizemore]

For me, the biggest gain is in keeping my health. Because the lead is completely encapsulated, there is no longer (or at least very little) atomized airborne micro lead particles created and dispersed in the air with the muzzleblast. At an indoor range is where this is most greatly realized as a benefit to preventing accidentally inhaling and ingesting lead. But even on an outdoor range, when the wind is blowing back in your face.

What about the lead from the priming compound? You didn't mention it.

[Oldfeller]

Here is my figuring on the choice of PC or greased lead.

If I were starting over, I'd be PC all the way. There are advantages to PC apart from just cleanliness, but that single point is an important item to many of us who are now "more afraid of lead poisoning" as we are older and "more frail" health-wise.

My main point between the methods is equipment cost. A push through LEE sizer for each caliber plus a beat up toaster oven and some dime store pans and parchment paper is a lot cheaper than lubriciser dies and a lubriciser, lube sticks and a heater rig. Cost of store bought stick lube vs cheap easy to use powder coating is about a wash, but the main costs that creep into either system is buying the upper level "neat stuff" that is available for both systems.

Flexibility to bulk up a bullet's size (and multi-coating undersized bullets) is worth mentioning. Using much softer lead is another.

Plus, shooting greased lead requires a learning and experience curve that powder coating from the get go simply does not make you scrabble to climb up that learning curve when you are just starting casting.


====================================


< What about the lead from the priming compound? You didn't mention it. >

Hey, unless you shoot a lot in un-ventilated indoor ranges the vaporous lead from primers going off should be very much diluted by the powder blast itself putting a little bit of lead out inside a massive discharge of powder gases that get intermixed with a matching HUGE volume of plain clean air such that if you are outside it simply isn't much of a concern.

If you can't smell it anything, you are "thin enough" to not have much danger of lead poisoning.

Anyone that shoots is going to be exposed to this potential source of lead so if you see a cloud of gunsmoke, don't breathe it in. :killingpc Duh.

[charlie b]

And if you buy the NOE bushing sizer system then it is a real bargain since you can easily pick the exact size you want for each gun.

[racepres]

I personally do Not PC.. I like my (old lubri-sizer) Method. My fresh sized and Lubed Boolits, get very lightly dusted with Motor Mica, which I learned Years ago... No Sticky!
But, I have a couple arms which require over sized projectiles...so, I do Plan to try PC just to result in a Slightly Larger Projectile. If it ends up simpler than "other" methods.. so be it

[Finster101]

And if you buy the NOE bushing sizer system then it is a real bargain since you can easily pick the exact size you want for each gun.


Yes sir. I had a couple of Lee push throughs but when I needed a couple of new sizes I went with the NOE setup. While initial kit is a bit more adding size bushings is dirt cheap and I believe more true to the claimed size.

[jdgabbard]

Yes sir. I had a couple of Lee push throughs but when I needed a couple of new sizes I went with the NOE setup. While initial kit is a bit more adding size bushings is dirt cheap and I believe more true to the claimed size.

Lee's new bushing system for the APP press can also be used with any of the breech-lock presses. I use their adapter for the APP mounted in an older Challenger press. Works great, and their bushing are only about $11/piece over at Titan. Sometimes they're even less... MUCH more economical than buying $30-40 sizer dies from Lyman or RCBS....

[owejia]

Long term storage, pc boolits do not oxide, can be stored with out worrying about becoming a toxic lead hazard. Have found lead balls and unlubed boolits that were stored long term in the leather ball pouch that were covered with the white oxidation. Before casting my own, bought boolits from Missouri Bullet company, the blue lube used on their boolits would harden and come out of the lube grooves over a long period of time. Pc stays on if applied correctly.

[beemer]

I can use PC to increase the diameter of a bullet. When I have to leave ammo in a car, mostly handgun ammo, there is no chance of lube melting and running into the powder. I have two molds that look the same loaded, one is heavier, use color coding. Powder coating doesn't stick to a seating die stem like TL. It doesn't collect grit and is cleaner and is easier to clean a bore. Probably a couple other things.

I don't use it for everything but it is another valuable tool in my box and I like options.

[Handloader109]

Lee's new bushing system for the APP press can also be used with any of the breech-lock presses. I use their adapter for the APP mounted in an older Challenger press. Works great, and their bushing are only about $11/piece over at Titan. Sometimes they're even less... MUCH more economical than buying $30-40 sizer dies from Lyman or RCBS....This is surely the way. I sold off all my std Lee sizers and bought same number of new APP bushings and paid for the press with the profits. I PC all my handgun ammo and I can push cast 22tcm ammo to 220fps and zero leading with only PC

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[Oldfeller]

Guys, got a direct link to this stuff?

Finding sub components for LEE presses is time consuming and I am never sure I have located the specific bits you are talking about.

[schutzen-jager]

in my experience powder coating is time consuming + expensive + shows not one single advantage in any way over properly applied liquid alox + most conventual lubes -

[LenH]

I have toyed with PC and am still on the fence about it. I already had a Magma Star sizer and dipped my toes in the PC world. I found out it just isn't for me.
I know that there are died in the wool PC guys but it just wasn't for me. I am still lubing bullets with TAC-1 Lube and it still works perfectly for me.

Dirty hands, well that is what soap is for.

[racepres]

I have toyed with PC and am still on the fence about it. I already had a Magma Star sizer and dipped my toes in the PC world. I found out it just isn't for me.
I know that there are died in the wool PC guys but it just wasn't for me. I am still lubing bullets with TAC-1 Lube and it still works perfectly for me.

Dirty hands, well that is what soap is for.
Again...Years ago I was introduced to putting a very small amount of Motor Mica, in the Boolit container, that I dropped boolits right from the Lubri-sizer into..shake it a Bit when done...all very lightly coated...No Sticky!
and...If you have lube on the Ends??? I would think you are doin something Wrong!! Unless tumble lubed...Which I do Not prefer at all...

[Nines&Twos]

in my experience powder coating is time consuming + expensive + shows not one single advantage in any way over properly applied liquid alox + most conventual lubes -

I have no problem with anyone who wants to ue conventional lubes but PC is certainly NOT time consuming compared to lube sizing...maybe a very expensive Star being as fast. If it's slow for anyone, they just have not gotten the process down pat. I cook around 300 9mm's per batch for 20 minutes. In that 20 minutes I can tumble and stand on parchment, the next batch. I've had 450's and LAM II's (never a star) and I could never get 300 in 20 minutes. Especially a bevel base.

What happens when you drop a tumble lubed round on the dirty ground at the range? PC is no worse for wear.
I will say, tumble lube is pretty fast but I despise the mess and unless it's thinned properly (as you mention) it smokes like a tar kiln.

To each his own but I can devote a cold winter sunday to doing PC and I can coat several thousand without really putting in hard work.

I keep a lube sizer around thinking I may want to try it again someday.....That reminds me, I should probably spray it with something to keep it from rusting.

[jdgabbard]

Guys, got a direct link to this stuff?

Finding sub components for LEE presses is time consuming and I am never sure I have located the specific bits you are talking about.


Here is a link to the individual sizing bushing: https://www.titanreloading.com/product-category/lee-precision-reloading-equipment/lee-breech-lock-bullet-sizer/lee-breech-lock-sizer-and-punch-sets/

You'll also want one of these to use the bushings: https://www.titanreloading.com/product/lee-2023-breech-lock-bullet-sizer-kit/



in my experience powder coating is time consuming + expensive + shows not one single advantage in any way over properly applied liquid alox + most conventual lubes -

It's not that there isn't any advantages of PCing bullets, you don't want to acknowledge the advantages of using PC. Which is fine, the old ways have worked for longer than the two of us have been around combine. But that doesn't mean there isn't advantages to the new way of doing things.

The BIG thing for me is less exposure. Either from handling loaded ammo, shoooting, or just handling bullets at the bench while loading, I get much less time with lead in contact with my hands. Might not be an issue for some, but I don't want to deal with heavy metal poisoning. Even if this reduces my lead count by the smallest fraction imaginable, that is worth it to me to continue doing what I love.

The second advantage, as I and others have already testified, no leading. Sure you can get a load to not lead with traditional lube. But I think you're missing the point we're making. Most of use don't even bother with gas checks anymore on loads that needed them before! PCing is THAT GOOD. We don't worry about hardness. I really only worry about tin content to the extent of getting good fillout. When hardness, gaschecks, and lube selection no long matter that is the very definition of an advantage.

Several members have done some accuracy testing, PCing showed a slight edge in most tests where accuracy was concerned. That's numeral 3. Though if we're being truthful, I'm not sure I entirely believe that one. It's been speculated that it has something to do with not flinging the lube off/away as it exits the barrel. Personally, the groups I've seen between the two are within my acceptable margin of error where it concerns my ability to be accurate. But, nonetheless, some are convinced that this is indeed the case. But there are certainly other things that could be considered advantageous compared to using traditional lube.

As for time consuming, it's not time consuming at all. You're really reaching here.... I spend less time messing with coating/sizing bullets than I ever did with lubed bullets. I don't have to worry about stacking them in a way that the lube isn't going to get contaminated or get pulled out of grooves. If I want I can sit the PC'd bullets in a plastic bowl on the bench for months without worrying about dust or debris... Storage these days is just filling up a ziplock bag full of ready to load bullets and sitting them on the shelf of my bench.

Ok, maybe we have an extra 20 minutes compared to tumble lubing to get the baked on. But not really, because you still gotta wait for the tumble lube to dry, and we don't. So that's a wash....

Being set in your ways with what works for you is fine. Not seeing value for yourself in a new way of doing things is fine. Saying there are no advantages for a new method that has been universally accepted on a global scale as being superior is something altogether different.

EDIT: As for expense, I think you're might mean to go from lubing to PC'ing. All you need is some PC ($15/lb, I have been using the same pound for 4 years now), an old toaster oven (costs nothing, got it for free), and sizer dies or bushings (use your Lyman 4500 if you want, you don't have to have push through dies). But even if you did buy push through dies, Lyman dies are $35-40/pc, the Lee push through dies are 8.99 at the links above. It's actually cheaper to PC than to lube....

[35 Rem]

The part where you still have to size each bullet after PC is what makes me think what's the point for shooters who already have a full setup for lube and sizing the traditional way. Viewed from that perspective there is zero time savings, but rather time added to the process. Also extra equipment to buy in the oven to bake the coating. I won't count the powder itself because that's no different than the lube to continue doing it the traditional way. I'm not discounting the actual apparent advantages of PC for higher velocity for shooters seeking such loads. If I ever try PC it would be to get a softer bullet going faster for better terminal performance on deer. So far I've had good luck with that with traditional lube at about 2,100ft/sec and haven't pushed farther yet. But it seems that most cast shooting volume is handgun loads where gas checks are required at all so PC doesn't really add anything there.

Again, if you are still going to size each bullet one at a time after PC, you haven't saved any time at all.

[jdgabbard]

The part where you still have to size each bullet after PC is what makes me think what's the point for shooters who already have a full setup for lube and sizing the traditional way. Viewed from that perspective there is zero time savings, but rather time added to the process. Also extra equipment to buy in the oven to bake the coating. I won't count the powder itself because that's no different than the lube to continue doing it the traditional way. I'm not discounting the actual apparent advantages of PC for higher velocity for shooters seeking such loads. If I ever try PC it would be to get a softer bullet going faster for better terminal performance on deer. So far I've had good luck with that with traditional lube at about 2,100ft/sec and haven't pushed farther yet. But it seems that most cast shooting volume is handgun loads where gas checks are required at all so PC doesn't really add anything there.

Again, if you are still going to size each bullet one at a time after PC, you haven't saved any time at all.

To the leading part,

I have a handgun caliber rifle (H&R in 7.62x25) that experiences pretty bad leading the first 4" of barrel with Carnuba Red and 4.5gr of Red Dot. Barrel is .310, bullets sized to .312". Alloy, 50/50+2%. With PC I can size to .311, with all other variables the same, and I get zero leading.

The sizing thing is faster, you're not handling each bullet twice while lubing (once to put on the lubesizer, once after you've lubed it). I can size bullets twice as fast on a press with push through dies than I can on a lube sizer. Ok, maybe you have a few extra minutes while the bullets are cooking in the oven. But you're not standing over it... I simply stick my in the oven and set a time to let me know when to come back and check on them.

Seriously, I take about 200 fresh cast bullets, toss them into a plastic folgers can, dump about a teaspoon worth of powder in, shake for 30 seconds, dump over a screen to filter the bullets out of the powder/BB mix, then onto a silicone baking tray. It then gets put into the over at 415 for 40 minutes from cold start, or 30 minutes from warm start. When the timer goes off, pull the tray out, dump in water, pull them out, dry and size. If your design shoots better with checks, or actually needs them, something I typically haven't found up to 1600ish FPS, then you have the time putting those on.

As for the price of the oven, seriously, I got it for free. But toaster ovens are like $20...

[Nines&Twos]

The sizing thing is faster, you're not handling each bullet twice while lubing (once to put on the lubesizer, once after you've lubed it). I can size bullets twice as fast on a press with push through dies than I can on a lube sizer.
MUCH faster.
Certain bullets I cast...I will very lightly mist the coated bullets with water...they will fly through the sizer like grease through a goose. ....then it becomes a question of manual dexterity...how fast can you work? I also recommend music with a repetitious beat if you do a thousand or more...keep an eye on the red container and don't push the lid off....or better yet, an upside down press and a bucket. I've done a couple thousand in less than an hour with proper musical motivation...that includes pee breaks!

[jdgabbard]

MUCH faster.
Certain bullets I cast...I will very lightly mist the coated bullets with water...they will fly through the sizer like grease through a goose. ....then it becomes a question of manual dexterity...how fast can you work? I also recommend music with a repetitious beat if you do a thousand or more...keep an eye on the red container and don't push the lid off....or better yet, an upside down press and a bucket. I've done a couple thousand in less than an hour with proper musical motivation...that includes pee breaks!

For real... Everyone keeps coming up with reasons not to do it. I get it you like doing what you're doing. But if you're doing it right none of those reasons really hold much water as far as I'm concerned. It is legitimately cheaper and faster. And in my experience, as well as pretty much everyone I've talked to, produces superior loaded ammo. But to each their own. I won't stop the 10 year old from sticking his tongue to the pole, and I won't stop a man from choosing to lube his bullets over PCing them. But they'll have to sell the manure somewhere else, I'm all stocked up here...

:2_high5:

[racepres]

Interesting Arguments...from both sides.. "My dogs Better than your dog"
IDC what anyone is Doing...Never did! I enjoy working with my hands...almost mindlessly!! I also do Not strive to do even 100 rounds at a Sitting.. Not of a Single Caliber anyway...Bores me to Tears.. I'm the guy that would have about a hundred loaded, then decide to change something...and load differently!! Experimenting is what I like...IDC that the next guy wants a Million and Fast...Don't bother me. I say...Do What Makes You Happy...and I will Also... even If my way is 180 out from Your Way.
If I wish to compete...I go to the Drag Strip... Thanks

[gwpercle]

I have toyed with PC and am still on the fence about it. I already had a Magma Star sizer and dipped my toes in the PC world. I found out it just isn't for me.
I know that there are died in the wool PC guys but it just wasn't for me. I am still lubing bullets with TAC-1 Lube and it still works perfectly for me.

Dirty hands, well that is what soap is for.

:goodpost:
LIKE !

My Lyman 450 was paid for in 1972 ... I can lube , size , seat a gas check and have a boolit ready to shoot with ... One Cycle of the handle ... Fast Fast Fast .
Too set in my ways to change now ... maybe 40 years ago ...
Gary

[schutzen-jager]

I have no problem with anyone who wants to ue conventional lubes but PC is certainly NOT time consuming compared to lube sizing...maybe a very expensive Star being as fast. If it's slow for anyone, they just have not gotten the process down pat. I cook around 300 9mm's per batch for 20 minutes. In that 20 minutes I can tumble and stand on parchment, the next batch. I've had 450's and LAM II's (never a star) and I could never get 300 in 20 minutes. Especially a bevel base.

What happens when you drop a tumble lubed round on the dirty ground at the range? PC is no worse for wear.
I will say, tumble lube is pretty fast but I despise the mess and unless it's thinned properly (as you mention) it smokes like a tar kiln.

To each his own but I can devote a cold winter sunday to doing PC and I can coat several thousand without really putting in hard work.

I keep a lube sizer around thinking I may want to try it again someday.....That reminds me, I should probably spray it with something to keep it from rusting.

i have not had to size any of the cast bullets in over 5 decades + lubing them with liquid alox allows me to shoot as cast - i definitely still find it expensive + time consuming + pc has never shown me any advantage whatsoever - the only time i ever use a sizer is when putting gas checks on a few higher velocity rifle rounds - proper size molds do not require sizing - if i ever drop a tumble lubed one it takes only a second to wipe it off + PC bullet also pick up contaminants if dropped in sand or dirt -

[dondiego]

Do you always have to size PC'd bullets? I try not to size if I don't have too. I mostly plink with pistols in large quantities. Also have a suppressed FA Uzi.

[racepres]

Do you always have to size PC'd bullets? I try not to size if I don't have too. I mostly plink with pistols in large quantities. Also have a suppressed FA Uzi.

While I am decidedly Not Expert, I find that some need sized...some do Not... I think it a Plus if don't need sized..,
Note; I have One 357Mag that has smallish Bore and therefor, smallish Throats..I find much better performance accross the board, sizing Boolits for That Piece, to .358..

[dondiego]

While I am decidedly Not Expert, I find that some need sized...some do Not... I think it a Plus if don't need sized..,
Note; I have One 357Mag that has smallish Bore and therefor, smallish Throats..I find much better performance accross the board, sizing Boolits for That Piece, to .358..

I understand. It's like any bullets. They have to be the size that you need and if they aren't, you need to fix them. I do like the fact that you can increase the size of a cast bullet by adding PC. I have the stuff to do it but just haven't cast any fresh bullets to give it a try yet. I have so many good bullets on hand already, I might not ever do it!

[fredj338]

I was slow to coated but once I got into it, I wont go back to lubed bullets. They load & shoot cleaner, just as accurate in handguns, less smoke & cost is minimal. Yes they require more time than my Star, but get a system down, its not that much time for the benefits. FWIW, my exp over the chrono shows a very slight increase in vel over identical bullets lubed. I could care less about what the bullets look like.

[fredj338]

Do you always have to size PC'd bullets? I try not to size if I don't have too. I mostly plink with pistols in large quantities. Also have a suppressed FA Uzi.

No but I like uniform bullets for loading into mixed brass. Get a thick case & fat bullet, it will be an issue.

[fredj338]

in my experience powder coating is time consuming + expensive + shows not one single advantage in any way over properly applied liquid alox + most conventual lubes -

Spoken like someone who hasnt shot many coated. The only downside to coated, PC or HT is time involved. It takes me an extra hour to coat the 1000 bullets. Sizing time is the same using a Lee APP v my Star. So fo an extra 1hr I get cleaner bullets to load & shoot & less smoke> on still days or at night shoots, thats a big deal.

[charlie b]

It is simple. If you have a lube sizer and like using it and the performance of your bullets is what you want, then why change? Just keep doing it the way you have been doing it.

I went to PC a few years ago because I did not want to pay for a lubesizer and all the dies. Pan lubing was a PITA. So I went to PC and the NOE die setup. A $30 toaster oven and $15 of powder. That worked for thousands of bullets. No worries about leading at all. No mess. And no smoke in the indoor range.

Then I ran into a used lubesizer for a price I could not pass up with the dies I needed. So, now two of my bullets I use exclusively with the lubesizer (rifle) and 5 I use PC (2 rifle, 3 pistol).

PS if interested in PC, try it. Cheap enough to get into. If you don't like it don't do it again.

[THE_ANTIDOTE]

Is pc worth it...you bet it is! A couple years ago I bought a Star lube sizer on ebay for just around $300 with a .452 die and that's it...no top punch, no lube, no heater, no hardware to mount it. A few months ago I purchased an Eastwood powder coat gun, 5 different 1/2 lb powders, ordered a NOE STAR bushing adapter and 4 bushings one for each of my calibers...did it all for close to $250.I recently sold the .452 die on ebay for $75 and used that money to order several more bushings. I can fully coat or dust 1 or 1,000 bullets in 3-10 minutes including setup. If I dust, I don't even bother sizing...just bake, load, and shoot. If I fully coat to increase bullet diameter, it is only for that one undersized mold and will only size the first few , but if they prove to fit my needs I won't even size the rest which saves me time. At times I will cast 8-9 different calibers/styles of bullets each with it's own lube design, imagine if I had to setup 8-9 dies to match the lube needs for each of those bullets...if it was even possible to find all the dies. With pc, I can set up bullets blindly and just spray them all at once. I mostly shoot long barreled firearms, for me, powder coat has proven to be more durable and offers better performance in my guns. I have shot lubed and powder coated bullets out of my 45-90 26" and have found the lubed bullet in jugs of water with no sign of lube at all (did the lube melt in the case while in the sun, burn off immediately during firing, halfway down the barrel, upon exit, in mid flight, during impact..who knows...) whereas the powder coated although scuffed up...looks pretty much in tact. For me, it is well worth it, there is more research/engineering going on with powder coat than bullet lube that I can't see it not being worth trying. It also makes it easier to find my bullets/lead if I am going to reclaim it.

[trapper9260]

Well for me . I got into PC after I was fighting to try to shoot cast and lube in a semi auto and ask those of you for help on it and then with some of yours help . I got into it and now I am able to shoot cast with out any problems in a semi auto like I was having. But other types of guns . I use the lube . Yes with PC I was able to increase the size of some of the boolits that I like to have them. Both ways works for me and I found what works best for what I need them for and go from there. As for lube I make my own so that is not a problem. But now I have another way to get what I want out of what I need . It works for me .

[foxtrapper]

Just started pc this week! Was lubing with the 45/45/10 method, I have not fired any pc yet. Also I cast just for handgun rounds. If these pc bullets shoot and there’s no leading I’ll be a full convert! East to apply gc and size effortlessly! I’m sold.

[DanOH]

I always cast and PC at the same time.
My toaster oven and 20# Lee pot take about the same amount of time to come up to temp.
I cast a pile of boolits until my pot is just under half full, then I will load the pot up with more ingots.
While waiting for the lead to melt, I do a quick inspection, then shake the boolits, sift them on
hardware cloth, dump them on either parchment paper or non stick foil and put them in to bake.
With a 6 cavity mold, the 20 minute cast and cook cycle usually synch up pretty well.
The time it takes to load up the pot and take out the cooked bullets is usually sufficient to cool the fresh cast boolits enough to handle for shaking.
I find this a good use of the time while waiting for the refilled pot to come up to temp.

Sizing (Lee push through) is usually done within a week of the cast and PC session.

I have a Star and a RCBS LAM that I just can't bring myself to sell, but I never use them.

[Texas by God]

I use both LLA and PC depending on the use-or my mood. I just shake and bake the PC in an old toaster oven. I like PC for hunting ammo and gas gun use because it is cleaner.
I haven’t noticed any difference in accuracy between the two.

[schutzen-jager]

none of the previous comment about sizing apply to me, like i previously stated i only have any need to size my higher velocity rifle cast bullets when attaching gas checks - i have found no practical advantage to PC coatings at all - plus pc is definitely more time consuming + expensive -

[sureYnot]

none of the previous comment about sizing apply to me, like i previously stated i only have any need to size my higher velocity rifle cast bullets when attaching gas checks - i have found no practical advantage to PC coatings at all - plus pc is definitely more time consuming + expensive -Saying it multiple times won't make it more true. It's too bad you have a hard time with it. Most of us don't. Nobody is trying to change your mind. Do what works for you. But some of us feel the need to speak up so others are not put off by false (for everyone but you, apparently) information.

[racepres]

Saying it multiple times won't make it more true. It's too bad you have a hard time with it. Most of us don't. Nobody is trying to change your mind. Do what works for you. But some of us feel the need to speak up so others are not put off by false (for everyone but you, apparently) information.

So...Now You are "Righter"??? Let it Go...Everyone has a Preference...Or Maybe Not... Appears to my Feeble Mind, that Both, or better, all 3 Methods, Work...

[jdgabbard]

Saying it multiple times won't make it more true. It's too bad you have a hard time with it. Most of us don't. Nobody is trying to change your mind. Do what works for you. But some of us feel the need to speak up so others are not put off by false (for everyone but you, apparently) information.

That's basically what I was trying to say. Pretty much everyone except a few die hard holdouts and fence sitters have universally agreed this is the way... If what they're doing works for them, so be it. But you don't hear the same horror stories about leading, bullet fit, and whatnot that you heard 10-15 years ago on this forum. People started doing it, and it just works. It has solved a lot of the common problems people were running into for almost no additional investment.

If nothing else it definitely makes cast more palatable to non-casters who reload. Being that there are a lot of PC'd bullets on the market these days I think it has helped a lot of shooters who don't cast keep their firearms fed without the worries that used to come buying bulk lead bullets with crayon lube.


So...Now You are "Righter"??? Let it Go...Everyone has a Preference...Or Maybe Not... Appears to my Feeble Mind, that Both, or better, all 3 Methods, Work...

The issue is that to a new caster trying to figure out which direction they should go statements like "there are no advantages to PCing" can be enough of a turnoff to keep them from considering what might be the better way to go for them. There is certainly nothing wrong with doing it the old way. I still have my 4500 and sizing dies, and it's loaded with Carnuba Red right now. I haven't used it for quite some time, but you know what, I may still find a use for it yet. People shouldn't write off a method of doing something so easily. Especially when it is so widely accepted as being the current standard to the point that even store-bought bullets often come as PC'd instead of lubed.

Now... Something I think does need more testing...PC'd Hollow Points. Anyone ever see how they perform in comparison to cast and lubed??? I only ask because I am able to shoot much softer lead using PC than I could when shooting lubed. I could see the PC interfering with the ability for the bullet to expand... Anyone seen any threads on that topic?

[sureYnot]

Now... Something I think does need more testing...PC'd Hollow Points. Anyone ever see how they perform in comparison to cast and lubed??? I only ask because I am able to shoot much softer lead using PC than I could when shooting lubed. I could see the PC interfering with the ability for the bullet to expand... Anyone seen any threads on that topic?

Yes. A few years back, a member posted some testing he did. There was no difference. He even took it a step farther and filled the hollow points with pc on one batch. The boolits did not care.

[dverna]

Accuracy claims on a forum like this are not always trustworthy. This is not due to people making false claims on purpose. Like the Rumsfeld book..."We don't know what we don't know". Let me expound.

Most people do not shoot enough to know. Some people have platforms that cannot decern if there is a difference and some folks are not capable of shooting well enough. How often do you see comments like, "Minute of deer" or "Minute of pie plate"...with accuracy touted as "good". For many folks, good enough is good enough. Accolades are given for three shot rifle groups...another telling indicator of folks who do not shoot enough to know...(or do not want to know?)

It takes a lot of groups to know if a load (or bullet lube) that gives a five shot 1.5" group is better than another load (or bullet lube) that gives a 2.0" group.

Anyway, my take on PC is that it unlikely to be more accurate based on what I have read over the years...and what I have not read. For a while I followed what the folks who shoot cast benchrest were using. Things may have changed but the top shooters use traditional lubes. If something gives them an edge, they will use it. Think about that. These are folks who have the skill and platforms to "make the call". And they are wise enough not to be fooled by a "wallet group".

The other indicator I have is Larry Gibson. When he tried PC bullets they did not perform as well as lubed bullets. He has been wise enough not to respond to this thread. I am not nearly as wise...LOL. Mr. Gibson is no fool and a better than average trigger man, so I value his input, or lack of it.

Getting to pistol plinking rounds, PC offers the advantages of less (or no) leading caused by bullets that are either not sized properly, made with poor alloy and/or driven at too high a pressure. That surely will beat the accuracy of lubed bullet that leads!!! AFAIK, no one has shot enough groups out of a Ransom Rest at 50 yards to evaluate the differences between PC and lubed pistol bullets. But for most folks (who are even worse pistol shots than rifle shots) if may not matter much anyway. Being able to use cheaper alloy and having clean barrels trumps any minor accuracy advantage a proper lubed bullet may have.

[sureYnot]

jdgabbard, I found it.

Scroll down to post by KVO. In Smoke4320's post, right after KVO, he also had good results but lost his pics.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?381111-PC-filled-hollow-points&highlight=powder+coat+hollow+points

Found KVO's original thread.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?364164-Hollow-Points-Filled-with-Powder-Coat-What-Happens&highlight=powder+coat+hollow+points

There was a slight difference.

[jsizemore]

PC and HiTek are another tool in the box. No more, no less. If your mold casts small both coatings might get you up to the size you need. If your getting into casting you can save some money from having to buy a lubesizer with special dies. You can pan lube too.

I think it's already been proved that if coated correctly the coating stays stuck to the bullet in it's trip down the bore. Most folks say the coating strengthens the bullet so you can use a softer alloy. I think you could use the same softer alloy with conventional lube and have no issues if the final sized bullets are the same. Lots of folks think they need really hard for the pressure they are developing with a given alloy but it actually has a broader range of use mostly in the softer direction. Coated bullets gas cut just like conventional lubed bullets if they don't fit the bore AND the throat. Sometimes it's just a matter of how soon you apply the pressure to the base of the bullet.

Plastic coatings don't make bullets magic.

[jdgabbard]

Accuracy claims on a forum like this are not always trustworthy. This is not due to people making false claims on purpose. Like the Rumsfeld book..."We don't know what we don't know". Let me expound.

Most people do not shoot enough to know. Some people have platforms that cannot decern if there is a difference and some folks are not capable of shooting well enough.

Don, once again we agree on something. It must be freezing downstairs... ;)

There has not been a truer statement made where it concerns accuracy claims. The truth is that most people I have met, and I mean no disrespect to anyone when I say this, are not capable of accurately shooting a rifle. I'm sorry, they're just not. There are exceptions , but that is why we have ransom rests. And 5-shot groups are not going to tell you much either. I can't remember where I read this, but I read a pretty detailed and lengthy treatise on determining accuracy several years back. Basically, you have to shoot thousands of rounds at the same point of aim and look at the statistics to determine actual accuracy. While a small 5-shot group might be enough to tell you YOUR potential accuracy with a given rifle and load combo, it's hardly enough to give you good statistical information for determining the accuracy of a given load.


jdgabbard, I found it.

Scroll down to post by KVO. In Smoke4320's post, right after KVO, he also had good results but lost his pics.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?381111-PC-filled-hollow-points&highlight=powder+coat+hollow+points

Found KVO's original thread.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?364164-Hollow-Points-Filled-with-Powder-Coat-What-Happens&highlight=powder+coat+hollow+points

There was a slight difference.

Thank you! I'll have to give it a read. As for filling the HP with PC, that actually sounds like it might have help open things up if anything. But what do I know....


PC and HiTek are another tool in the box. No more, no less. If your mold casts small both coatings might get you up to the size you need. If your getting into casting you can save some money from having to buy a lubesizer with special dies. You can pan lube too.

I think it's already been proved that if coated correctly the coating stays stuck to the bullet in it's trip down the bore. Most folks say the coating strengthens the bullet so you can use a softer alloy. I think you could use the same softer alloy with conventional lube and have no issues if the final sized bullets are the same. Lots of folks think they need really hard for the pressure they are developing with a given alloy but it actually has a broader range of use mostly in the softer direction. Coated bullets gas cut just like conventional lubed bullets if they don't fit the bore AND the throat. Sometimes it's just a matter of how soon you apply the pressure to the base of the bullet.

Plastic coatings don't make bullets magic.

I think the big difference is where lube becomes a fluid under pressure, effectively help slide the bullet through the bore, the PC instead bonds with the lead so firmly that it creates a barrier between the two that does not easily give up the ghost.

Back when I worked in manufacturing, I spent a lot of time working in a Powdercoating line. One day management wanted to test how well the PC would bond to aluminum. With steel, the PC could be chipped off if hit right. When we powdercoated aluminum it bonded so well that you couldn't scrape it off with a sharp chisel. You'd literally lift up aluminum before you separated the PC from the metal. My theory is it is something like this with lead. It bonds so well that you'll destroy the bullet before it comes off. Thus creating a silky smooth layer between the barrel and the lead. Just my theory based on my past experiences in manufacturing and observations while shooting. But it's what I'm going with....

[reddog81]

I converted to PC'ing after trying Lee Liquid Alox a few times and could never get it to work correctly. 100% of the time i ended up with lead in the barrel even with .38 Special and 45 ACP. PC'ing eliminated that immediately. I actually bought a Lubesizer a few years later and use that for some loads because it is faster and supposedly more accurate but my handgun groups at 50 yards can't tell the difference.

Lubesizer cost vs PC definitely favors PC for initial cost ($100's vs $10's) and cost of supplies. $20 of lube sticks will last me a few months. $20 of PC will last a few years.

People griping about PC just want to complain because it's not what they are used to and it wasn't around when they started so it must be bad...

[dverna]

Don, once again we agree on something. It must be freezing downstairs... ;)

There has not been a truer statement made where it concerns accuracy claims. The truth is that most people I have met, and I mean no disrespect to anyone when I say this, are not capable of accurately shooting a rifle. I'm sorry, they're just not. There are exceptions , but that is why we have ransom rests. And 5-shot groups are not going to tell you much either. I can't remember where I read this, but I read a pretty detailed and lengthy treatise on determining accuracy several years back. Basically, you have to shoot thousands of rounds at the same point of aim and look at the statistics to determine actual accuracy. While a small 5-shot group might be enough to tell you YOUR potential accuracy with a given rifle and load combo, it's hardly enough to give you good statistical information for determining the accuracy of a given load.



I may have seen the same article. Anyway...a preview of coming attractions:

I will be doing a study shortly of 3, 5, 10, 25 and 50 shot groups. I have acquired a program that will allow me to superimpose groups from multiple targets.

A PCP rifle will be used to take out variations of powder drops, lube, case prep, primer seating, bullet runout, barrel fouling/cleaning. The gun will be "topped up" every 10 shots to reduce the effect on fill pressure as my gun is non-regulated. Pellets will be weight sorted to +/- .05 gr and inspected. The gun averages .76" for over 200 groups at 50 yards so I am confident it is a decent platform. The variables of the jerk behind the trigger (me) and wind are still in play. I am waiting for decent shooting weather (northern MI) and calm conditions as I am not great at reading wind and pellets get blown around a bit.

The first testing will be at 25 yards to minimize the effect of wind.

By superimposing groups, it will show how the average of 3 shot groups compare to the average of groups with higher shot counts. The exercise is to not only prove how worthless 3 shot groups are but also determine how 5, 10 and 25 shot groups compare to "reality" - 50 shot groups.

10 targets will be shot. Each target will consist of three shots on one bull and two on another:

That will yield data for ten 3 shot and ten 5 shot groups.

Targets #1 and #2 will be combined to determine a 10 shot group. Targets #3 and #4 will produce another 10 shot group, etc etc. This will yield five 10 shot groups.

Targets #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5 will be combined to determine a 25 shot group. Targets #6, #7, #8, #9 & #10 produce the second 25 shot group.

The last group will include all 50 shots. Reality.

How I established 50 shots as "reality" is not scientific. We used to Ransom Rest 50 shots at 50 yards with our Bullseye pistols to evaluate CF loads and different lots of .22 LR. I was in college shooting with a couple of Master Class guys and that was what they did.

If there are any suggestions to make the test more informative, let me know!

[fredj338]

Is pc worth it...you bet it is! A couple years ago I bought a Star lube sizer on ebay for just around $300 with a .452 die and that's it...no top punch, no lube, no heater, no hardware to mount it. A few months ago I purchased an Eastwood powder coat gun, 5 different 1/2 lb powders, ordered a NOE STAR bushing adapter and 4 bushings one for each of my calibers...did it all for close to $250.I recently sold the .452 die on ebay for $75 and used that money to order several more bushings. I can fully coat or dust 1 or 1,000 bullets in 3-10 minutes including setup. If I dust, I don't even bother sizing...just bake, load, and shoot. If I fully coat to increase bullet diameter, it is only for that one undersized mold and will only size the first few , but if they prove to fit my needs I won't even size the rest which saves me time. At times I will cast 8-9 different calibers/styles of bullets each with it's own lube design, imagine if I had to setup 8-9 dies to match the lube needs for each of those bullets...if it was even possible to find all the dies. With pc, I can set up bullets blindly and just spray them all at once. I mostly shoot long barreled firearms, for me, powder coat has proven to be more durable and offers better performance in my guns. I have shot lubed and powder coated bullets out of my 45-90 26" and have found the lubed bullet in jugs of water with no sign of lube at all (did the lube melt in the case while in the sun, burn off immediately during firing, halfway down the barrel, upon exit, in mid flight, during impact..who knows...) whereas the powder coated although scuffed up...looks pretty much in tact. For me, it is well worth it, there is more research/engineering going on with powder coat than bullet lube that I can't see it not being worth trying. It also makes it easier to find my bullets/lead if I am going to reclaim it.

Ok I'll bite. How do you setup 1000 bullets to PC in 5min??? Reason I dont spray is the bullets need to be all standing then sprayed without knocking them over & theen the waste of powder, but spraying is less fincky.

[kevin c]

I went from buying jacketed to plated to conventionally lubed cast to coated cast when I started reloading pistol rounds in volume (basically I was going for less expense and reasonable accuracy for my application). One I started casting the slugs myself I just continued with the same coating technology at home since it was available and inexpensive in terms of set up and I already was familiar with the product and performance. I never even considered conventional lubing my boolits, though that wasn’t out of dislike for the process or performance so much as a lack of familiarity with it.

[sureYnot]

Thank you! I'll have to give it a read. As for filling the HP with PC, that actually sounds like it might have help open things up if anything. But what do I know....

It may be possible that it could prevent clogging by the t-shirt, jeans, jacket, towel, or whatever you have over your gel for testing. I've read about some HPs getting clogged and not opening up after going through clothing. Which is why that test is done. Never experienced it myself.
If I had one that I knew did that, I'd certainly want to experiment with it.

[fredj338]

saying it multiple times won't make it more true. It's too bad you have a hard time with it. Most of us don't. Nobody is trying to change your mind. Do what works for you. But some of us feel the need to speak up so others are not put off by false (for everyone but you, apparently) information.

^^this^^^^

[fredj338]

Don, once again we agree on something. It must be freezing downstairs... ;)

There has not been a truer statement made where it concerns accuracy claims. The truth is that most people I have met, and I mean no disrespect to anyone when I say this, are not capable of accurately shooting a rifle. I'm sorry, they're just not. There are exceptions , but that is why we have ransom rests. And 5-shot groups are not going to tell you much either. I can't remember where I read this, but I read a pretty detailed and lengthy treatise on determining accuracy several years back. Basically, you have to shoot thousands of rounds at the same point of aim and look at the statistics to determine actual accuracy. While a small 5-shot group might be enough to tell you YOUR potential accuracy with a given rifle and load combo, it's hardly enough to give you good statistical information for determining the accuracy of a given load.



Thank you! I'll have to give it a read. As for filling the HP with PC, that actually sounds like it might have help open things up if anything. But what do I know....



I think the big difference is where lube becomes a fluid under pressure, effectively help slide the bullet through the bore, the PC instead bonds with the lead so firmly that it creates a barrier between the two that does not easily give up the ghost.

Back when I worked in manufacturing, I spent a lot of time working in a Powdercoating line. One day management wanted to test how well the PC would bond to aluminum. With steel, the PC could be chipped off if hit right. When we powdercoated aluminum it bonded so well that you couldn't scrape it off with a sharp chisel. You'd literally lift up aluminum before you separated the PC from the metal. My theory is it is something like this with lead. It bonds so well that you'll destroy the bullet before it comes off. Thus creating a silky smooth layer between the barrel and the lead. Just my theory based on my past experiences in manufacturing and observations while shooting. But it's what I'm going with....
If you put enough PC on a bullet to clog the HP, you put on too much.

[schutzen-jager]

Saying it multiple times won't make it more true. It's too bad you have a hard time with it. Most of us don't. Nobody is trying to change your mind. Do what works for you. But some of us feel the need to speak up so others are not put off by false (for everyone but you, apparently) information.

fyi - i only restated it because it was in retort to fredj338 in post 57 erroneously claiming that i only had limited experience in powder coating - everyone is entitled to personal opinions + on other threads on topic here + on other forums - many have the same opinions as i do -

[MT Gianni]

I have 3 lubesizers on the bench next to an arbor press set up for NOE dies. I still lube some but with 30 cal and 357 lever guns you can shoot them at max 357 speeds without gas checks if you PC.

[jdgabbard]

...everyone is entitled to personal opinions + on other threads on topic here + on other forums - many have the same opinions as i do -

Absolutely! Everyone should have the right to have their own opinions!

But here's the catch: When smokeless powder came around I'm sure there were some guys trying to figure out how to use it while the Holy Black guys were telling them just to use BP. A few years later down the road once they figured it out and it was well established I'm sure there were still some die-hard BP guys saying that there wasn't any practical advantage over just using BP. But after a decade it was decided that it absolutely was a better alternative to BP. If it weren't we'd still be using BP for all our reloading today. That last part is where we currently are with bullet coatings.

It's not that BP, or this case traditionally lubing (with or without sizing), is not still workable. People use BP, and traditional lube, every day! It's that we now have a better alternative, placing the former in a niche. And just like how we let the Flintlock and BP Cartridge guys do their thing, nobody is going to insist that you or anyone else stop doing things the way you love doing them. But that also doesn't mean we won't point out the obvious advantages, and obvious fallacies in statements made when they could steer others down a more expensive and outdated path.

That said, I do hope you haven't taken offense to anything I've said, as none of it has been meant to minimalize your opinions. I'm sure there are plenty of others that feel the same way you do. But can we just agree that the Ribeye is the best cut of steak and be done with it???

I'm sure someone will disagree and tell me the NY Strip is better. ;)

[jdgabbard]

I have 3 lubesizers on the bench next to an arbor press set up for NOE dies. I still lube some but with 30 cal and 357 lever guns you can shoot them at max 357 speeds without gas checks if you PC.

It really is amazing. I used to expect a fair bit of leading in 9mm when I'd get a new gun until I got things worked out. Not anymore... I too still keep the Lubesizer mounted on the bench, with lube in it, ready to go. But honestly, I haven't touched it in over two years with the exception of using it to seat some gaschecks on rifle bullets. I'm not entirely sure I even need those anymore tho...

[charlie b]

I have shot enough groups (hundreds of groups from 100 to 500yd) with lubed vs PC to know that there is no difference accuracy wise. There is more variation in the cast bullet itself than the coating/lube.

So, it is all down to which you prefer to do. Like I said before, I do both depending on what mold I am using.

[racepres]

I have shot enough groups (hundreds of groups from 100 to 500yd) with lubed vs PC to know that there is no difference accuracy wise. There is more variation in the cast bullet itself than the coating/lube.

So, it is all down to which you prefer to do. Like I said before, I do both depending on what mold I am using.
The Voice of Reason...I will give PC a Chance... Tho I was going to before all this hoopla

[Oldfeller]

[QUOTE=jdgabbard;5716453]Here is a link to the individual sizing bushing:

https://www.titanreloading.com/product-category/lee-precision-reloading-equipment/lee-breech-lock-bullet-sizer/lee-breech-lock-sizer-and-punch-sets/

You'll also want one of these to use the bushings: https://www.titanreloading.com/product/lee-2023-breech-lock-bullet-sizer-kit/

325843


This is excellent info for someone starting out in either powder coating or liquid Alox methodology.

P Flados lent me a mold that did two different .358 bullets which I sized down to .3565" with one pass through a solid steel LEE sizing die. My largest press was needed for the job as press pressures were considerable, pad lubed "barking and moaning" style of considerable.

I pad lubricated every bullet as I did not want to damage my cast iron LEE Classic press.

Considering the plastic and aluminum components that are currently used to shoulder stop all the forces used to size the bullets, I kinda doubt my P Flados bullet resizing arrangement would have been very kind to this partial plastic and aluminum construction sizing die.

Funny thing about the prices, 20 years ago when I bought all my basic sizers they only cost $12 each for the large, very solid hardened steel construction "immortal" sizer dies.

[rintinglen]

The one real drawback to PC versus LLA or 45/45/10 is that it is time consuming. If you are a high volume shooter, it adds a half hour plus per tray, versus simple tumble lube. I seldom do it anymore, save when I want "lipstick" boolits for pretty cartridges.

[jdgabbard]

The one real drawback to PC versus LLA or 45/45/10 is that it is time consuming. If you are a high volume shooter, it adds a half hour plus per tray, versus simple tumble lube. I seldom do it anymore, save when I want "lipstick" boolits for pretty cartridges.

Where is everyone getting this "takes more time" thing. It's literally faster than lubing. Probably about the same as LLA. If it's adding time to how long it takes you're doing something very inefficiently.

[jsizemore]

The Voice of Reason...I will give PC a Chance... Tho I was going to before all this hoopla

It's always good to explore and master all your options.

[jsizemore]

Where is everyone getting this "takes more time" thing. It's literally faster than lubing. Probably about the same as LLA. If it's adding time to how long it takes you're doing something very inefficiently.

I use my star to size after PC. So PC adds the time to coat and bake. Takes the same time to to size and lube or just size. It takes me 20 minutes to coat 800 bullets and another 30 minutes to bake. PC takes longer.

[jdgabbard]

I use my star to size after PC. So PC adds the time to coat and bake. Takes the same time to to size and lube or just size. It takes me 20 minutes to coat 800 bullets and another 30 minutes to bake. PC takes longer.

Ok, but not everyone has a Star. I would say probably 1-2% of people have Star Sizers. Most people are going to have a Lyman or RCBS Lubesizer. People who own Star sizers are the exception to the rule.

[charlie b]

Time to prep the bullets is a huge variable, depending on how you are processing.

You can PC 500-1000 bullets (or more) in one batch with a std size oven. If you are careful in mold purchasing you can buy a mold that negates the need to size. Fast method.

Like mentioned above, once you need to size it is almost a wash unless you have a Star sizer. I've seen a couple Star's with a powered bullet feed that is production level output, but, the setup cost is fairly steep.

[elmacgyver0]

It all comes down to this:
If you like lube, then definitely use it.
If you like PC, then definitely use it.
You have a choice, either way is just fine with me.
In some cases, one will work better than the other and vise-versa.
If you totally rule out one or the other, you are limiting your choices and versatility.

[racepres]

^^^ Wouldn't it be nice to have a Like Button...VS "yes...I agree"

[quilbilly]

I P.C. some of my fishing jigs and did a few of my boolits to test. I have so many containers of the Lee Alox (aka Mule snot) bought over the years that I don't bother with P.C.'ing boolits yet. Since just load for bolt guns and single shots, that became another reason to not bothering with all the extra steps required for P.C.ing.

[fredj338]

The one real drawback to PC versus LLA or 45/45/10 is that it is time consuming. If you are a high volume shooter, it adds a half hour plus per tray, versus simple tumble lube. I seldom do it anymore, save when I want "lipstick" boolits for pretty cartridges.
Not sure what you mean by tray. There certainly is a time diff but but if sizing both, it might be 1hr more to pc. I can coat & bake 1000 in about an hour, they are then ready to size. What does it take to Alox 1000, 15min plus drying time? For that i get non sticky, non smoky bullets. Worth it to me, and i shoot about 800 a month.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

For those who think PC is so healthy compared to lubed bullets it's really not. PC has triglycidyl isocyanurate, tri-mellitic anhydride and lead chromate which you can breath when you coat and when you bake. When it comes out the barrel who knows. I don't think it's ever been studied.

I have powder coated many buckets of bullets, but there's no quicker way from pot to range than my Star sizer. I use a very soft lube that doesn't get hard and my bullets are always sharper and dimensionally correct. Maybe a spray would be better, but I mostly tumble in a bin for speed.

Right now I honestly don't see a clear winner. They both have their place. I'm hoping some day there will be a better method that is more uniform and easy to use.

[fredj338]

Where is everyone getting this "takes more time" thing. It's literally faster than lubing. Probably about the same as LLA. If it's adding time to how long it takes you're doing something very inefficiently.
Well it depends on your gear. Alox, you are sizing just like PC. With stick lubes, a Lyman/RCBS is pretty slow compared to a Star. I can Alox coat 1000 bullets in maybe 10min. I cant PC in 10min.

[fredj338]

For those who think PC is so healthy compared to lubed bullets it's really not. PC has triglycidyl isocyanurate, tri-mellitic anhydride and lead chromate which you can breath when you coat and when you bake. When it comes out the barrel who knows. I don't think it's ever been studied.

I have powder coated many buckets of bullets, but there's no quicker way from pot to range than my Star sizer. I use a very soft lube that doesn't get hard and my bullets are always sharper and dimensionally correct. Maybe a spray would be better, but I mostly tumble in a bin for speed.

Right now I honestly don't see a clear winner. They both have their place. I'm hoping some day there will be a better method that is more uniform and easy to use.
Well I dont stand around & breath while baking my bullets, but I know there is a smell, so maybe something in your statement, depending on what powder you use.

[fredj338]

Time to prep the bullets is a huge variable, depending on how you are processing.

You can PC 500-1000 bullets (or more) in one batch with a std size oven. If you are careful in mold purchasing you can buy a mold that negates the need to size. Fast method.

Like mentioned above, once you need to size it is almost a wash unless you have a Star sizer. I've seen a couple Star's with a powered bullet feed that is production level output, but, the setup cost is fairly steep.
Almost impossible to get a mold that throws exactly the correct final size bullet because, as we all know, casting temp & alloy controls final size. Then of course coating adds size too.

[fredj338]

I use my star to size after PC. So PC adds the time to coat and bake. Takes the same time to to size and lube or just size. It takes me 20 minutes to coat 800 bullets and another 30 minutes to bake. PC takes longer.
I can shorten your time, dont bake for 30min, no real point, 15min in a preheated oven is plenty.

[waksupi]

Since I enjoy all aspects of handloading and shooting, powder coating is just part of the process.

[charlie b]

Almost impossible to get a mold that throws exactly the correct final size bullet because, as we all know, casting temp & alloy controls final size. Then of course coating adds size too.

For a long time Lee molds were designed to drop a CWW alloy bullet ready to load. I did that exact thing with my .45's and .357. Cast, pan lube and load. Didn't own a lubesizer or size dies until I started loading for a rifle many years later.

[fredj338]

For a long time Lee molds were designed to drop a CWW alloy bullet ready to load. I did that exact thing with my .45's and .357. Cast, pan lube and load. Didn't own a lubesizer or size dies until I started loading for a rifle many years later.
That just has never been really true. Final as cast size will vary with alloy & casting temp. Sure, use the exact alloy & exact temp, you might get the a bullet that drops the preferred size but not likely. I never saw where Lee molds were regulated with CWW. Most manf use Lyman #2 because its repeatable.
Did you ever actually measure the final bullets? Yes you can certainly get by not sizing, but like everything else in life, it Worls until it doesn't. I size because I load in mixed brass & a fat bullet & thicker case is going to cause an issue. If they are all the same size & there is a problem, I know its the case. One reason I now segregate all my 9mm brass. Thickness is just all over the place & with longer 147gr bullets, I need certain headstamps to make reliable ammo.

[Finster101]

Since I enjoy all aspects of handloading and shooting, powder coating is just part of the process.


:drinks:

[charlie b]

Yep, we did measure them. .452 and .358 as cast.

I hate loading cast for my 9mm so I just buy plated bullets for it.

[jdgabbard]

Yep, we did measure them. .452 and .358 as cast.

I hate loading cast for my 9mm so I just buy plated bullets for it.

You might check out Mihec's 125gr 9mm bullet, or the 147gr. They're NICE. I used to load plated or FMJ mostly with 9mm. But since I bought these molds it's pretty much what I stick with now.

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-356-125-2r-6cav-bevel-base/

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/9mm-38-147-rn-bb-8-cav-aluminum-mold/

[jsizemore]

I can shorten your time, dont bake for 30min, no real point, 15min in a preheated oven is plenty.

In my oven with PID control I had bullets get sticky in the Star sizing die even up to 20 minutes bake time with the oven preheated. I had to use a lanolin based lube for them to slide through. I increased my bake time to 30 minutes after the oven hits 375degF on the digital readout of the PID. No lube and the PC'd bullets slide right through. Smoke's powder. Thanks for the suggestion. I do what works for me.

[fredj338]

Yep, we did measure them. .452 and .358 as cast.

I hate loading cast for my 9mm so I just buy plated bullets for it.
Not saying it isnt true but unless you use identical alloy & temps, your bullets will vary in size. You would have to measure dozens each time you cast, not a couple each.

[fredj338]

In my oven with PID control I had bullets get sticky in the Star sizing die even up to 20 minutes bake time with the oven preheated. I had to use a lanolin based lube for them to slide through. I increased my bake time to 30 minutes after the oven hits 375degF on the digital readout of the PID. No lube and the PC'd bullets slide right through. Smoke's powder. Thanks for the suggestion. I do what works for me.

I just dont see how baking them longer makes them easier to size unless you are water dropping out of the mold & baking longer softens the alloy.
I water drop out of the PC oven. If I wait more than a couple days to size, they get harder to push thru the die, but never had to use any lube to size.

[kevin c]

You might check out Mihec's 125gr 9mm bullet, or the 147gr. They're NICE. I used to load plated or FMJ mostly with 9mm. But since I bought these molds it's pretty much what I stick with now.

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-356-125-2r-6cav-bevel-base/

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/9mm-38-147-rn-bb-8-cav-aluminum-mold/

I can also vouch for these designs and molds. The 147, especially, is the go to for me and a friend for the Action Pistol sports.

[jdgabbard]

I just dont see how baking them longer makes them easier to size unless you are water dropping out of the mold & baking longer softens the alloy.
I water drop out of the PC oven. If I wait more than a couple days to size, they get harder to push thru the die, but never had to use any lube to size.

It's because the boolits a "slick" from the PC. You just have to feel it to understand. It's like they're slippery and slide through faster with less friction. Sounds weird, I know. But PC boolits do in fact size easier - at least perceive to size easier...

[jsizemore]

I just dont see how baking them longer makes them easier to size unless you are water dropping out of the mold & baking longer softens the alloy.
I water drop out of the PC oven. If I wait more than a couple days to size, they get harder to push thru the die, but never had to use any lube to size.

I only air cool everything I cast or after baking. I size as soon as they're cool enough to handle after baking. I tried waiting 1 hour and at 2 hours. PC'ed bullets were still a bit sticky going through the die. Some folks were having the same problem and posted they increased bake time to 30 minutes. I thought why not cuz I'm tired of the lubing. First time after 30 minute cook time they sized without lubing after cool to the touch. Sized portion of the bullets look polished and slide through the die like butter. Tried sizing after waiting an hour and there was a little resistance but no slowing of the handle stroke on the star.

I bake @ 800 bullets at a time. After loading the convection oven I wait for it to recover to 375degF before I start the 30 minute bake time just like I used to at 15 and 20 minute bake times.

At one time I thought I might have to too much powder on the bullets. I shook them in the mesh baskets till there was a light coating and still had sticking at less then 30 minute bake time. Tried different relative humidity days. Same deal. Same results regardless of the ambient temps.

All I can say is "30 minutes is my bake time". Good time to rest up between the 1.5-2 hour casting session and the hour to size them.

[charlie b]

Not saying it isnt true but unless you use identical alloy & temps, your bullets will vary in size. You would have to measure dozens each time you cast, not a couple each.


We measured a few hundred of them before we got tired of it. Then we just lubed and shot them. Worked great, even for my father-in-law who was a Navy bullseye shooter.

[charlie b]

I just dont see how baking them longer makes them easier to size unless you are water dropping out of the mold & baking longer softens the alloy.
I water drop out of the PC oven. If I wait more than a couple days to size, they get harder to push thru the die, but never had to use any lube to size.

Baking them past the mfgs minimum makes for a fully cured coating that has a lower friction. The one time I tried shortcutting the baking process I got bullets that needed more force to size.

It is not that big a deal to use the powder the way the mfg intended.

[fredj338]

It's because the boolits a "slick" from the PC. You just have to feel it to understand. It's like they're slippery and slide through faster with less friction. Sounds weird, I know. But PC boolits do in fact size easier - at least perceive to size easier...
I PC, fully understand the process. I question how baking 30min makes them easier to size, unless they are air cooled & softening the alloy.

[fredj338]

Baking them past the mfgs minimum makes for a fully cured coating that has a lower friction. The one time I tried shortcutting the baking process I got bullets that needed more force to size.

It is not that big a deal to use the powder the way the mfg intended.

So its specific to a given powder, ok. I still think its changing the alloy. The baking time element isnt really an issue, you can be doing other things.

[jdgabbard]

So its specific yo a given powder, ok. I still think its changing the alloy. The baking time element isnt really an issue, you can be doing other things.

I water drop out of the oven. So even heat treated they are butter smooth going through the sizer. I don't think it's an alloy thing, but a PC thing. Everything sizes smoother PC'd (at least if it's fully cured - I've always been of the opinion you can't over cure PC, as I used to do it professionally).

[charlie b]

So its specific yo a given powder, ok. I still think its changing the alloy. The baking time element isnt really an issue, you can be doing other things.

You can't change the alloy. You can change the hardness of the alloy if you heat treat. You can increase the hardness of most alloys if you water cool from the oven. I air cool so there is no change in hardness from casting to final PC bullet. Basically, if you air cool after casting and PC then you have a fully annealed bullet that will have hardness based on the specific alloy. I use Lyman #2 so that means 16-18bhn.

FWIW, to fully heat treat most lead alloys it takes about 40min at the hardening temperature. If you water drop from a PC oven after 20 min the bullets will not be 'fully' hardened.

[fredj338]

I water drop out of the oven. So even heat treated they are butter smooth going through the sizer. I don't think it's an alloy thing, but a PC thing. Everything sizes smoother PC'd (at least if it's fully cured - I've always been of the opinion you can't over cure PC, as I used to do it professionally).
You are not reading the post i replied to. Yes pc doesnt need lube to size. The question is baking time& sizing.

[jsizemore]

I coat and bake 14-14.5 lbs of bullets at a time. I'm using an Oster countertop convection oven whose total wattage is 1500 watts. I'm like most ovens and folks, I monitor the air temp in the oven. Could be the total mass I'm trying to heat requires a longer time to get up to temp to cure completely. Kinda like the extra time to bake a 5lb turkey or 3 5lb turkeys at one time in the same oven.

[Oldfeller]

Looping on back to the original purpose of this thread, almost all of us now agree that if you are starting out fresh you are better served by following the PC path from the very beginning as:

1) general results are better all around
2) the total learning curve is not as steep as PC simply ignores a lot of early caster issues
3) startup cost outlay in the required equipment is far far less
4) the bullets are prettier with all the minor casting flaws "covered" and sized all "nice and shiny and round"
5) lead poisoning concerns in handling are greatly reduced, especially later on when the plain lead bullets get oxidized in storage
6) you have not invested time and tooling $$$ in the now obsoleted greased lead technology nor the sloppy messy liquid alox LEE system. Both systems now trail off into obsolescence where they belong.

[murf205]

I've kitted myself out with the gear to powder coat boolits but I'm starting to wonder if I've done the right thing.
I've seen a fistfull of youtubes where PC loads were tested alongside identical loads except that the latter were plain lubed (in most cases it was with Lees liquid alox) and the PC loads were always significantly down on velocity and showed no improvement in accuracy.
I wanted to PC my boolits in 30 cal and 357 formy three carbines and tbh I'm having serious second thoughts.
Can anyone convince me that these youtubes were bs or why they aren't bs and liqid alox is the way to go.

braddock, I can't tell you whether the you tube videos are BS or not because I have not seen them, but I can tell you that in my experience, pc'd boolits feed in lever guns and semi autos where lubed ones did not. The super slick coating glides up feed ramps and IMHO, eliminates friction in that area. Plus, it lets me use a softer casting mix without leading where the fit may be questionable. I don't mean to imply that boolit diameter fit can be discounted but pc'ing sure has cured a lot of problems for a lot of people. I use both methods so I am really not biased one way or the other, but I will tell you that I had my share of 9mm feeding problems but not since I started powder coating for those guns. If you use the "shake and bake" method, a 2nd hand toaster oven, a decent thermometer, and some of Smoke4320's powder, you can get in the game pretty reasonably. Good luck with your decision.326046 Here is a pic of a 38S&W round that I pc'd for gun with a .360 groove diameter. The boolit dropped a mite small from the regular 38/357 mold so O coated it and picked up .001 and I shoots like a dream.

[skeet1]

So many of you guys have disserted your lubrisizers I thought you might as well send them to me. I'm sure I can find a home for those poor orphans.

[dverna]

So many of you guys have disserted your lubrisizers I thought you might as well send them to me. I'm sure I can find a home for those poor orphans.

When one door closes, another opens...LOL

When the PC "fad" started I was able to pick up a couple of Lyman sizers super cheap. I had no real need for them but like having backup. If the SHTF and the power goes out, those antiquated bits of technology will still work. LOL

No such "deals" on Stars...yet.

[FLINTNFIRE]

For the original question of is it worth it apart from purely cosmetic reasons , My answer is yes it is , I now powder coat most of what I cast and if it was not for black powder cartridge and muzzle loading I would coat everything .

Yes it adds size , some molds I ordered with that in mind as I did not want to size , some I size as it adds consistency when reloading , for long term storage I find it is great , now I do not usually size till I load and have had no issues doing that with powder coated range scrap and wheel weight alloys , pretty hard alloys that ring when dropped and hard to scratch .

I keep the lubesizer and lube for a what if scenario , along with the alox / Recluse lube , I like the cleanliness and no sticky while loading , no build up in seater stem less mess on gun when shooting and clean up after .

I placed powder coated bullets in with different powders I use to check for any reaction , and found none with powders I use , as to cosmetics I could care less what color the bullet is , I want fit , less smoke , less mess , and the coating blocking oxidization is a big plus .

If what you are doing works for you great , do what works for you and what you like for your own reasons .

[dogdoc]

I guess I do not see the point . I cast then size/lube in one step then load. Seems like a bunch of extra work and time to me. Might be fine if you got plenty of time. I can loads hundreds on my Dillon before I need to clean any lube out of the seating dies. I think people get caught up in having pretty little colored bullets

[jsizemore]

They got clear if the colored ones bother you. Goes on white and cures/drys clear.

[Finster101]

326081

[2TM101]

Better than 70 years ago, Speer taught us the benefit of a “jacketed” bullet. It eliminates almost everything you need to know or understand outside of reloading and molding. All we did was trade jacketed material that we couldn’t apply ourselves to one we can.
Took me awhile to realize it - but powder coating is just tumble lubing that you bake on instead of air dry.

Which I now use for my 356-125-2R because once powder coated it doesn't work in anything I have except my S&W 986. I literally can't even cram it into the case far enough to work as 9mm cases are thicker near the bottom. In THAT gun though, I can powder coat it and even crimp it in the groove and it works. I suppose because it doesn't headspace on the rim so it can be more open.

[mehavey]

356-125-2R because once powder coated it doesn't work in anything
I have except my S&W 986. I literally can't even cram it into the case
far enough to work as 9mm cases are thicker near the bottom. What are you sizing it to after coating?
(Note: I'm running three different 147gr/Powdercoated bullets through 9 different 9mm's -- sized .357 -- no issues.)
(Multiple SIGs, Glocks, M&Ps, and a Walther)

[fredj338]

Took me awhile to realize it - but powder coating is just tumble lubing that you bake on instead of air dry.

Which I now use for my 356-125-2R because once powder coated it doesn't work in anything I have except my S&W 986. I literally can't even cram it into the case far enough to work as 9mm cases are thicker near the bottom. In THAT gun though, I can powder coat it and even crimp it in the groove and it works. I suppose because it doesn't headspace on the rim so it can be more open.
Well probably so if you are NOT sizing after coating. Then they are whatever size you choose. I run 0.357" OC in several diff 9mm without issues. I do sort my 9mm brass though. Most foreign brads are quite thick as you get to the middle. Fine for 115gr, maybe 125gr but once you go to longer 147gr, you get little bulge in the middle that can prevent proper chambering. So I toss back anything but FC. Blazer, Xtrem, Starline or Blazer. Even Win & Rp can be problematic.