Stevens 44 What To Do

[snipin101]

Hello all. So my wife sent me a online auction the other day with some old guns for sale. So I seen an old Stevens with zero description about the rifle. I bid a little and won it. I went and picked it up today from the auction house. I know it is very rough around the edges to say the least lol. My question is what would you guys do with this rifle? I would absolutely love to send or take this rifle to someone and get it back in great shooting condition. I know it would take some money for sure but then I would have a great gun. It's chambered in 25-20. I would like to keep it chambered for that. The bore looks about like the rest of the gun. Could it be sleeved back to that or would it need to be bored out to something in 30 cal then rifling cut? I don't even know where to start as I am not a gunsmith and don't have matching tools. Is there anyone that restores old rifles like this that does a good job? These questions might get me started lol. Thanks for any helps or opinions. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240410/1e747b4ae51072904907904bc0b89ae2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240410/7a56df0ba7464fc90573c966ac13a7be.jpg

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Restoration is worthwhile and you will have a family heir loom to boot. That is the journey that I took with my Winchester Low Wall in 32WCF (made 1892) and now I have a rifle that I shoot up to 3 times per week!

[country gent]

I would pull the barrel clean and polish the outside have a liner installed and chambered to 25-20 The action I would hand polish and have color case hardened. Wood would be refinished or replaced possibly with a medium to upper end walnut. The steel butt plate would get the same as the action.

When done it will be to pretty to shoot.

Even a good cleaning and polish will do a lot then block sand and tru oil finish on the wood will greatly improve the appearance.

[dverna]

John Taylor is who I would reach out to.

[country gent]

CPA might make new wood for it. By sleeving you maintain the original markings. Cntact Gail there they might even color case harden with the stevens pattern.

[marlinman93]

The question is which .25-20 is it? If it was the .25-20 Win. it would likely be marked ".25-20 WCF" so it might be the .25-20 Single Shot Stevens cartridge, and if so I wouldn't reline it and chamber it to that cartridge due to how tough the cases are to buy.
I wouldn't consider a restoration, and barrel liner unless you're prepared to also go new wood, color case hardening, and rust bluing the barrel. If you're going to do it, do it right. But expect this to be a pretty expensive gun when done, and have more into it than it will ever sell for. But if you plan to keep it afterwards, then it's worth it.
John Taylor could reline the barrel, but if you want one person who can do all the restoration work, then I'd recommend Al Springer at Snowy Mountain Gun Restorations. Al's work is beyond compare, and he can do all the refinishing, including restocking. I've had Al do my color case work, and rust bluing for a very long time now, and love everything he's done for me! Extremely fair pricing, and great finish work!
If you have the ability to do metal polishing, and fit new stocks, you can save a lot of money on this restoration. If you can't do the stocks, they will likely be the major part of your costs.

[old turtle]

Very nice find. I agree dverna, John Taylor does excellent work.

[snipin101]

Thank you guys so much for the info. I would like to make this gun something special and keep it forever. Ever since I got my first pedersoli sharps while it's a repro I grew to love shooting single shot rifles. Then I got a Remington rolling block in 43 Spanish and really enjoy shooting classic single shots. The barrel just says 25-20 so I'm going to guess it's not 25-20 win.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[G W Wade]

Nice find, hope it turns out like your dreams for it. GW

[John Taylor]

Lining the barrel is no problem. 25-20 single shot might be a little tough finding brass, but then so is 25-20 WCF. Buffalo arms has ammo but at almost $5 a shot. You can find 25-20 WCF for under $3 a shot. You could also go to 32-20.

[snipin101]

As long as I can get brass and dies loading will be no problem. I cast and reload pretty much everything I shoot. I would like to keep it original loading but seems 25-20 win would be a little easier to find brass for.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[JDHasty]

I ran out of space to post photos here, so have been posting about my Stevens 44 project here

I bought wood from CPA. It’s just wrapping up. All I need to do is finish my foreend hangers and get scope blocks ordered and installed.


https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/stevens-model-44-22lr-help-requested.1282801/page-2

[sureYnot]

I ran out of space to post photos here, so have been posting about my Stevens 44 project here

I bought wood from CPA. It’s just wrapping up. All I need to do is finish my foreend hangers and get scope blocks ordered and installed.


https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/stevens-model-44-22lr-help-requested.1282801/page-2https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?467491-How-to-Post-Unlimited-Images-in-Forums-and-PMs

[Rockingkj]

Thank you guys so much for the info. I would like to make this gun something special and keep it forever. Ever since I got my first pedersoli sharps while it's a repro I grew to love shooting single shot rifles. Then I got a Remington rolling block in 43 Spanish and really enjoy shooting classic single shots. The barrel just says 25-20 so I'm going to guess it's not 25-20 win.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

I have a Stevens 44 that is 25-20 win but the barrel is simply marked 25-20 so not automatically 25-20SS. I would stay with 25-20 , 32-20 type cartridges. It said the 44 action is not strong enough for larger cartridges. If the action was a 44 1/2 then you could go with larger cartridges. It will make a dandy rifle for you. If you take the forend off the rifle the action model number of the action is stamped on the front side of the frame.

[RustyReel]

I don't own one of those, but if I owned THAT one and was planning to redo everything anyway, I would take a couple of days and clean the heck out if it, agressively just to see what was under all that "patina". If it was shootable, I would shoot it. May change your mind about redoing everything. Doesn't need to be pretty to be a family treasure.

[dverna]

An uneducated comment but will throw it out anyway.

Could the action take .38 Spl level loads? I know JES can rebore to .35 cal.

.25/20 brass is not easy to get. I suppose 200 cases would last a lifetime but at $.50 each vs $.10 for OF .38's that is an $80 saving (25% of rebore cost). Plus .38 is easier to cast and may be more accurate.

I have wanted a single shot or bolt action .38/.357 for a long time so that is what sparked the thought.

[gunther]

25 20 ss cases are not available right now, except for the online auction sites at $5 each. Except for Lee collet neck sizing dies, @$50+, dies will run $250 plus. And may not work very well. Yup, I found a rifle of this caliber.
Got the last 14 cases Buffalo Arms had, @$3 each, and $5 each for 40 more off an auction site. Found out that the folks who make custom dies for this caliber make them for .257 bullets. Most old barrels will be a lot happier with slightly oversized cast bullets. New liners are pretty soft and will likely prefer cast bullets as well.
25 20 wcf is a cake walk by comparison. Cases are hard to find but they are occasionally produced by
Starline or Winchester, and dies are affordable.
A 44 action in a centerfire caliber is a Blackpowder only proposition. The pins that hold the breech together, and the action generally, are not stout enough.

[pietro]

.

Color me different, but I like it as-is - as living history.

With the idea of never judging a book by it's cover, the first things I would do if it was mine would be to scour the bore and then see how it shoots..... :Fire:

If it shoots good, I would then clean the metal with oil & Big 45 Frontier Metal Cleaner pads @ $7, direct

( https://www.big45metalcleaner.com/ )



I would also renew the wood with Homer Forby's Furniture Refinisher

( https://www.giahardware.com/Minwax_30032_Introduction_Refinishing_Kit_Paint_p/30032.htm )


FWIW, I've successfully restored a few dozen long arms with these products, over the past 30-40 years - and sold the guns to dealers who snapped them up, saying that the finishes looked original.

( I never represented the finishes as original - like a smart fish, I just kept my big mouth shut ;) )


.

[marlinman93]

An uneducated comment but will throw it out anyway.

Could the action take .38 Spl level loads? I know JES can rebore to .35 cal.

.25/20 brass is not easy to get. I suppose 200 cases would last a lifetime but at $.50 each vs $.10 for OF .38's that is an $80 saving (25% of rebore cost). Plus .38 is easier to cast and may be more accurate.



It can handle medium level .38 Special, but what's to keep someone from chambering a .38 +P in it someday? I don't take chances when reworking old guns as no way to control how they're used after I'm gone.

[Shawlerbrook]

Reline to the original caliber. Definitely talk to John Taylor.

[JDHasty]

25-20 SS cases can be made by pressing 223 up into the neck of a 7mm die with an arbor press and a punch then turning the case ahead of the rim. There is a bit more to it, but I've only seen it done once and that is the part I remember. It's not an easy job, but that's about the only way to come up with a good supply of cases unless you are independently wealthy and like spending your money that way.

[Bent Ramrod]

Is that rifle missing the trigger and mainspring?

Another vote to redo to .25-20SS. The shells are out there, if you look for them.

[marlinman93]

So far I haven't seen any mention of which .25-20 the OP's rifle is yet? No sense in choosing a chambering until he says which it is.

[dverna]

It can handle medium level .38 Special, but what's to keep someone from chambering a .38 +P in it someday? I don't take chances when reworking old guns as no way to control how they're used after I'm gone.

Thanks for the information.

The OP mentioned going to .30 cal. Would the .32 S&W Long work?

[uscra112]

It can handle medium level .38 Special, but what's to keep someone from chambering a .38 +P in it someday? I don't take chances when reworking old guns as no way to control how they're used after I'm gone.

AMEN. Same for .25-20 WCF. Most factory WCF ammo is loaded to pressures that will cause a Model 44 to "shoot loose" in a hurry.

.25-20 Stevens cases can be made from .223, but it's an arduous process.

.25-20 Stevens dies are spendy.

If you watch the auction sites, once in a while .22 Lovell brass will turn up. That can be annealed and reformed back to its' parent .25-20 Stevens.

If you choose to breech seat your bullets, just ONE .25-20 Stevens case will last you quite a while. A 44 will breech seat the bullet with nothing but a plugged case, so you'd actually need two cases to get started.

A liner for .32 S&W Long would be a good bet. Plenty of brass, dies cheap. Don't even think about .32 Magnum, however.

[uscra112]

So far I haven't seen any mention of which .25-20 the OP's rifle is yet? No sense in choosing a chambering until he says which it is.

I've run across a 44 that had been .25-20 Stevens, but was rechambered for .25-20 WCF. As far as I know that's the only way to get one chambered for the WCF cartridge. The barrel has to be set back to do this.

[uscra112]

It's fairly easy to make inserts for a Lyman tong tool that will do the neck sizing, expanding and seating. Only die you'd have to buy would be the FL sizer.

Alternatively the inserts can be made to fit into the Lee "Universal Expander" (which it isn't) die body. Simple lathe parts anyone can make. I have drawings.

[dtknowles]

Thanks for the information.

The OP mentioned going to .30 cal. Would the .32 S&W Long work?

Seems like a good option, if not keeping it stock. Rebore or reline to .32 S&W long would make a nice rifle and ammo/components will pretty easy to come by for many years to come.

[snipin101]

Hey sorry haven't had a chance to get back on here. Yes the trigger is missing. I need a trigger and springs. With any luck this weekend I will get a chance to take it apart and see what is all missing but did look around online and found some places to buy action parts for it. When the lever is lifted fully into position the action is tight with no wiggle and is solid so I was happy to see that. I did run a brass brush down barrel and clean it. It's in awful shape, I'm talking cast iron sewer pipe inside kinda awful. I have done a ton of thinking about this gun the last few days. The barrel says 25-20 with nothing else behind it. So I have zero clue if it is chambered for ss or win. So here is my plan and hope I don't get thrown into the fire for it lol. I will figure out what action parts it needs and get them and get the action functioning as should. Then I will send the barrel and action and have it chambered for 25-20 wcf for the ease of brass and components. So tech it will be still be 25-20 as the barrel markings suggest. Then I will buy some stock and forearm for it and fit them and stain them myself. As for blueing I have no idea yet but have plenty of time to think about that. Have the tang drilled and tapped for tang sight and put a globe front sight and poof. I have a rifle I put my heart and soul into and did a lot of work on and something to be proud of. I have reworked some rifles and last year did a muzzleloader kit that took a lot of work to get it to my standards and feel I will do an ok job. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240413/5db786350380d269639cfe1ee5cdfc83.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240413/e5c5c04bc3d831e0de0cd7a794ad76ba.jpg

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[JDHasty]

It's fairly easy to make inserts for a Lyman tong tool that will do the neck sizing, expanding and seating. Only die you'd have to buy would be the FL sizer.

Alternatively the inserts can be made to fit into the Lee "Universal Expander" (which it isn't) die body. Simple lathe parts anyone can make. I have drawings.

I would be inclined to have Lee make a custom Collett die and seat the bullets with a Vickerman.

[uscra112]

The gun is marked just .25-20 because Stevens never sold one for the WCF round, with good reason. (See below). The Stevens .25-20 predates the WCF version by several years, and even after the WCF version was introduced nobody needed to be told that except Winchester buyers. Winchester continued to chamber the 1885 for the Stevens round for a good many years, (the WCF cartridge was not as accurate), so Winchester invented the "Single Shot" appellation for 1886 barrels, because they'd be damned if they'd stamp a competitor's name on them.

Now, I strongly advise AGAINST the .25-20 WCF round. Typical breech thrust for .25-20 Stevens loads is in the 800-900 lbf. region. Most factory WCF ammo is loaded with jacketed bullets to modern varminter velocities, and those pressures produce as much as 2400 lbf. breech thrust. (I've done the math.) This is more than double what the old 44 can stand up to without "shooting loose" in very short order. You can tell yourself that it will never be used with anything but your carefully tailored cast-bullet handloads, but you can't guarantee it forever. In the late '30s Stevens sold some 44s for the Hornet, which generates only 1500 lbf. breech thrust, but they very quickly withdrew that chambering, because even at 1500 lbf. the guns didn't last long. There are guys in the ASSRA shooting benchrest with 10-inch-twist barrels and 105 grain cast bullets using the WCF case, and even those are more than advisable in a Model 44.

.25-20 Stevens brass is not unobtainium, and by the time you finish restoring the rifle you will have found some. If not, I will.

[uscra112]

I would be inclined to have Lee make a custom Collett die and seat the bullets with a Vickerman.

I kinda get the impression that he's not going to be shooting benchrest with it.

[1Hawkeye]

If the bore is a sewer pipe as you say I would send the barrel to Jes and have him turn it into a .32-20 you should be able to get the parts you need from Cpa they have quite a bit of model 44 parts as well as their 44 1/2 offerings.

[elmacgyver0]

I am glad to hear that you are going to do the cleanup work yourself.
It will give you a lot of satisfaction to have a project you do yourself.

[uscra112]

Have I ask you yet for the serial number so I can add it to my database? Then I can at least approximate its' date of manufacture.

[John Taylor]

Several years ago another shop sent me a 44 that they thought had been re-chambered to 25-20 WCF. When I cast the chamber I found it was a 256 Winchester, a little hot for a 44. I talked to the other shop about lining the barrel and gave them a price.They contacted the owner and he said he didn't want to put any money into it. I ended up buying it for a reasonable price and installed a 44-40 barrel on it. There were 44s chambered in 28-30, 32-40 and 38-55 with the latter two having a hammer block to keep the breach from going down. I don't know if the hammer block was ever needed but I have seen many 44s that were loose from shooting heavy loads. The factory loads for the 44-40 are 13,000 psi which is quite a bit lower than the 38-55 so I didn't see a problem with it and it shoots great. The 38 special factory loads are supposed to be around 16,000 so it should be OK also.

[marlinman93]

I had an original Stevens 44 that was factory chambered in .38-40 WCF. A lot of people told me if it wasn't already loose, it would be eventually. It was very tight, and after years of shooting it the gun never did shoot loose.

[uscra112]

I had an original Stevens 44 that was factory chambered in .38-40 WCF. A lot of people told me if it wasn't already loose, it would be eventually. It was very tight, and after years of shooting it the gun never did shoot loose.

An interesting datum, inasmuch as the breech thrust at 13kpsi would have been some 300 lbf greater than the .22 Hornets, which did shoot loose.

------------------
Added: Looking at some recently generated pressure tests in the middle of the night, the answer may be that the black-powder .44-40 only generates 7200 psi, not 13,000. Which drops the breech thrust to a reasonable 1000 lbf. The .38-40 tested even lower. That test series did not, disappointingly, include the .32-40 or the .25-20 Stevens. It does include the .38-55, at 12400 psi, which is probably a decent stand-in. The .25-20 WCF loaded with black powder came in at 17150, which is high enough to reinforce my objection to it. Bottleneck cases do appear to boost black-powder pressure quite a lot.

[uscra112]

I don't know if the hammer block was ever needed but I have seen many 44s that were loose from shooting heavy loads. The factory loads for the 44-40 are 13,000 psi which is quite a bit lower than the 38-55 so I didn't see a problem with it and it shoots great. The 38 special factory loads are supposed to be around 16,000 so it should be OK also.

John, did I ever send you the draft article I wrote up based on Chuck Dietz's computer generated force-resolution diagrams? If not, I will. It explains a lot.

Phil

BTW at 16000 psi, the .38 Spl thrust is 1500 lbf. On par with the .32-40s for which Stevens supplied lugged hammers. But typical 800 fps target loads in the .38 are about half that, and would be fine.

As I've said many times, the gun won't blow up when loaded to 1500 lbf bolt thrust pressures, even 2000 lbf thrust. It just beats that poor little link to a bloody pulp, so the action doesn't lock up properly anymore, and headspace increases.

[MaLar]

I have one that I got as an action missing parts. Made my own stock and turned a barrel chambered it to 38LC. Made a 360 No 5 Rook of it virtually the same cartridge. It's a hoot to shoot.

[gnoahhh]

Ignore uscra112's advice about Stevens 44's at your peril.

I have a 44 chambered for .22WCF and even though a .22 Hornet round will chamber and fire I refuse to do so. I feed it soft 45 and 40 grain plain base bullets and either 2.0 or 2.5 grains Bullseye respectively. A fine backyard plinking/squirrel hunting load. There's simply no need to hotrod these rifles IMO.

Last month I acquired a dandy early 7 o'clock extractor Stevens 44. The only rub: it's a .32 Long rimfire. If y'all think scrounging .25-20SS and WCF brass is a pain, try locating .32 rimfire ammo! I solved the problem by swapping in a same vintage centerfire breech block (and dutifully tagged and stashed the original breech block for posterity).

Since a .32 Long rimfire chamber is dimensionaly the same as .32 Long Colt (not .32 Colt New Police) I thought I had half the battle won. Not even close. .32 Colt brass is the kissing cousin of .25-20SS brass in terms of obtainability. Aha! I'll just make it says I. Man plans and God laughs.

After several aborted tries by swaging .32 S&W Long brass in home made dies via my 5-ton arbor press I was about ready to go have a beer. The trouble lies in centering the cases in the die for the squeeze. Then a light bulb went on in my head and I tried to swage in a .25-20SS sizing die (very close to correct diameter). Still no go, too small actually, in my case. So I tried the .25-20SS seating die as a swaging die instead and voila, almost there but still not quite. I then made a screw-in swaging die for my loading press that takes the case down that last little bit to final diameter (.001" smaller than chamber diameter determined by chamber cast). The two die swaging process leaves a small belt of squeezed material at the base of the brass which disappears after a trip through my Unimat lathe. Done. Load with a 77 grain heeled bullet by thumb seating over 1.5gr. Bullseye for initial testing. Successful discharge, noiseless, and knocks an empty beer can for a loop. Lots of room to increase powder charge but I'm not comfy exploring how hard I can charge it, maybe 2.0 grains Bullseye and call it a day.

The rifle:

https://i.imgur.com/qs5wFjAl.jpg

The fixin's:

https://i.imgur.com/ioiHSIWl.jpg

Please ignore the glare from the flash. Left to right: .32 S&W Long, .25-20SS seater die, homemade swaging die, swaged case (note belt of squeezed material at bottom), swaged case after lathe trimming, loaded round.

One last note. These home made .32 Longs are a bit longer than standard dimensions but they work fine by putting the bullet firmly into the leade of the rifling. .32 Long rimfire chambers were evidently cut long so as to support a heeled bullet in the front end of the cylindrical chamber without touching the rifling.

[history@mts.net]

I sort of did the same thing with a Stevens I picked up at auction a couple of years ago. Someone down the line had changed the rim-fire breech-block to a centre-fire one. The rifle came with 2 barrels; one chambered for .32 Colt, the other for .32 Long Colt. Considering that the stocks had been refinished, both barrels re-blued & the Long barrel had been D&T'ed for a Redfield cantilever scope base, I figured there was no collector value to be ruined by reaming the chambers [all I had to do was run a PT&G .30 throat reamer in the required amount & Voila, a perfect .32 S&W chamber appeared] for .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long, given that both of the Colt cases are unobtanium up here North of The Medicine Line. I had attempted to follow Gnoahhh's path, but decided against that after trying to swage down .32 S&W brass.
The moulds I had Tom at Accurate make up for them work quite well, as do all of the moulds I've had him make for me. I designed the moulds for each to mimic the original weights of the .32 Stevens RF cartridges, Short & Long, albeit without the original heeled bullet design, I design all of my bullets to have a 70% meplat to use for hunting & I am partial to Tumble-Lube grooves as I exclusively use White Label X-Lox as my lube. I load to the sights for each barrel / cartridge, as I do for my 44 1/2 with matching .32-40 & .38-55 barrels.