Starrett lost a potential customer

[MrWolf]

I was looking for a set of telescoping (snap) guages and of course looked at Starrett for quality and made in the USA. They are expensive. I found a new set on Ebay where the seller had included a picture of the box and at the very bottom of the label it said Made in China. I called Starrett and was assured by Emily (sp?) That all their tools are made here in America except for electronic boards. I nicely notified the seller they were selling fake/knockoffs per Starrett and informed Ebay, filed a report, and had spent about an hour on the phone. A short time later the seller contacted me and referred me to MSC direct who is a large company. The item was clearly marked made in China. I called Starrett back and spoke to the same woman who this time reached out to her manager (claimed she spoke to tech support this morning). He stated that this was the ONLY item outsourced to China! I informed her that based upon what she told me earlier I filed a report, etc with Ebay and that she should contact Ebay and explain. She said she would NOT call as Ebay was not an authorized reseller. I said you basically lied to me and I acted on what you told me and got a seller in trouble. She said sorry I feel that way. I informed her I will never buy a Starrett product and I will let others know and hung up. I then contacted the seller and Ebay to fix everything.
I can't stand being lied to. She made the mistake and should have at least owned up to it. Out of principle I informed the seller that I cannot buy the Starrett product from him. I just couldn't believe what I was told. I probably do not need that degree of accuracy for what little I hope to do but it really bugs me people do not take personal responsibility.

Ron

[M-Tecs]

Brown and Sharp did the same. I have a great luck purchasing these type items from Facebook Marketplace. Used is about your only option if you want US made telescoping gauges. Snap gauges are a different animal. https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/instruments-controls/all-about-snap-gauges/

[Txcowboy52]

I can’t say that I blame you one bit , I hate being lied to. Hard to know what is and isn’t made in the U.S. anymore.

[porthos]

i doubt that your tool is the only one that starrett has made in china. i no longer buy anything that is new rcbs. much of their reloading devices are made in china. who do you think makes the most profit ; redding made in usa paying decent wages; or rcbs paying chinese wages. please don't anyone write about rcbs great customer service. i got tired of reading that!!

[fc60]

Greetings,

Yes, it is sad that Starrett is outsourcing to Communist China.

However, watching eBay will still get Made In USA Starrett tools.

Some are well used, others have been stored in the toolbox.

Cheers,

Dave

[country gent]

Mr Pete on you tube had a short video recently. Starret has been sold to some conglomerate . I have a set of starret snap gauges from when I started in the trade. Also the small hole gauges. My Mics are brown and sharpe slant lines along with my hole mikes. I also have a starrett junior mechanical indicator where the workings are exposed. Starret depth mics 2 1/2" and 6" base.

I doubt Starret will be what they were. They dos till make a lot of digital and measuring units (CMM) but the old style are going away fast.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Of course you're the one who talked to her, and sometimes much can be inferred by inflection and tone of voice, but maybe she thought she was telling you the truth, until she talked with her manager and found out differently. I'm just glad it was Starrett and not Smith & Wesson! :D

DG

[MrWolf]

Brown and Sharp did the same. I have a great luck purchasing these type items from Facebook Marketplace. Used is about your only option if you want US made telescoping gauges. Snap gauges are a different animal. https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/instruments-controls/all-about-snap-gauges/

Thanks for the clarification. I've only gotten my knowledge of them from YouTube. Believe they were one of the Blondi hacks, the Quinn woman. She said they were called both terms.

[Baltimoreed]

The global economy sucks.

[Plate plinker]

The global economy sucks.

Corporate greed combined with a generation or two of no moral compass. I also prefer old American made over sending money to Communist china.

[M-Tecs]

Thanks for the clarification. I've only gotten my knowledge of them from YouTube. Believe they were one of the Blondi hacks, the Quinn woman. She said they were called both terms.

I've heard both terms used on the shop floor but only one is correct. Kind of like calling bullets heads, leads, points etc.

[hunter49]

Companies along with small businesses are being regulated out of business, by local, state and the federal government. I try to purchase products made in the USA but, it's just unrealistic for me to think I can buy everything made in the USA.

There are many companies that list their products made in the USA, read the fine print! Materials are outsourced! The US companies have other countries make their parts and or products to their specifications and ship to the US for final assembly.

Starrett used to be top of the line, unfortunately, not anymore! Sorry for the rant, MrWolf I agree with you, don't appreciate being lied to. The employee at Starrett possibly did not know or she flat out lied, either way, not good!

[Shopdog]

Sorry,you're about 10 years after the fact. Instead of getting all worked up,spend way more time researching. There are some amazing deals to be had... just need to educate yourself beforehand.

Good luck with your project.

[Moleman-]

Ever run across the "made in the USA with domestic and globally sourced parts" when the item is only a single piece with a sticker on it? Want to guess where the sticker was made vs the item?

[phantom22]

Americans aren't even made in the USA anymore.

[georgerkahn]

The global economy sucks.

This post says it all! Its ONLY about money - money - money! A few years back the associate in a True-Value hardware store brought two IDENTICAL, except their painted colour, vices to my attention. The red one had a $99.98 price sticker, while the blue one's price tag indicated $65.99! The latter -- thirty bucks cheaper -- was made in China! We then marveled how ore could be shipped to refinery, then to China (or, produced by "recycled ore" there); cast; machined; painted; packed; and then shipped back to the USA, following by shipment to ordering people, then to distributors, and finally to store -- at this much cheaper price! Where were the savings realized? HUMAN LABORERS! The yuan renminbi to pay workers there, as opposed to workers getting US dollars here.
When I make any purchase I consider the COST -- US folks NOT employed in this country -- is, to me, greater than the LOWER PRICE "savings".
geo

[dverna]

For many items, the cost of labor is not significant enough to warrant a huge price difference. Something else is going on.

I recently needed a SSQA plate for a custom attachment I had desgned. I bought it on eBay for 1/2 the price of the anything made in America. The fabrication shop manager could not believe what I paid for it. The steel alone was worth my delivered cost. He told me the welds were not of the quality he would provide, but more than good enough. He ran a couple of passes at no charge where he thought it needed it.

Anyway, back to the topic, dealing with a customer service rep on the phone is a crap shoot. Some decent ones and some are just awful. My fiance had the same issue when she worked for a software company. People afraid to show their ignorance and BS'ing customers. It will only get worse. People are conditioned to lie and there are few consequences. Most don't care if the company loses a customer or three. We are reaping the results of "participation award" mentality. Saw on FOX last night a new Scrabble game is being introduced that has no scoring so no one loses.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/scrabble-has-a-new-easier-version-because-gen-z-doesnt-like-the-original-game/ar-BB1lptg4

[MrWolf]

Of course you're the one who talked to her, and sometimes much can be inferred by inflection and tone of voice, but maybe she thought she was telling you the truth, until she talked with her manager and found out differently. I'm just glad it was Starrett and not Smith & Wesson! :D

DG

I do recall on the second time calling in when the one rep transferred me to her, there was a recording stating she was filling in for someone. She had an attitude on the first call when I questioned if everything was still made in the USA. As country gent pointed out, evidently they were sold to a conglomerate so who knows what was really produced anywhere anymore. I was just pissed in that she told me something and I acted upon it. Yea mistakes happen but if you say/do something that is wrong, take the personal responsibility and fix it. Her attitude really got to me. Oh well.

[farmbif]

when I was doing a lot of outboard rebuilding and block boring and honing I went though every major brand of snap gauges to get an accurate one that would not change a bit when turning the knurled knob to set the plungers. I settled on Mitutoyo. in the world of precision tools it really doesn't matter where it's made, what counts is how precise and well made the item is. am I'm one of the biggest proponents of not sending my dollars to china if at all possible and detest harbor freight. I'm currently contemplating buying a couple of the high quality tap wrenches and its either starrett or previously used ones off eBay made in USA, Greenfield, Union or LSI. those are the only options ive been able to find

[Green Frog]

Both of my Gerstner oak tool chests are loaded with Starrett tools, but neither of the boxes nor any of the tools are newer than 20 years or so. If you read the current Gerstner catalog, they have two tiers of product, US made and imported. Likewise the last full Starrett catalog I saw distinguished between US and foreign made, with the former being significantly higher priced. Be informed when you shop!
Froggie

[country gent]

I bought my gerstner Journeyman boxes around 1983, Mine are walnut. Gerstner used to offer oak walnut and cherry. Now it looks like only Oak. What I find unique is ladies will buy the older gerstner apprentice model, send them back for restoration and then use them for jewelry boxes.

While foreign tools are good I wonder how many will make the 3-4 generations like starret, browne and sharpe, lufkin. I have some Lufkins that were bought by my grandfather then my Dad and now me. One of the guys in gauge and layout told me the cheap tools would pass ISO inspection for a few years before failing. The above would pass for the whole carreer of the owner then some. Federal finger indicators would get sticky over time. And there were no replacement tips when the ball got a flat worn on it.
My starret junior mechanical indicator was made around 1900 and is still accurate and free moving. Even at 120 years old.

[georgerkahn]

when I was doing a lot of outboard rebuilding and block boring and honing I went though every major brand of snap gauges to get an accurate one that would not change a bit when turning the knurled knob to set the plungers. I settled on Mitutoyo. in the world of precision tools it really doesn't matter where it's made, what counts is how precise and well made the item is. am I'm one of the biggest proponents of not sending my dollars to china if at all possible and detest harbor freight. I'm currently contemplating buying a couple of the high quality tap wrenches and its either starrett or previously used ones off eBay made in USA, Greenfield, Union or LSI. those are the only options ive been able to find

While your choices (Starrett, Greendield, etc.) are GREAT ones -- my dad -- a tool and die maker -- professed his favourites being tools made by Brown & Sharpe. I have a few -- micrometers, indicators, and... tap wrenches made by them. I agree with my late dad -- actually re the two tap wrenches I have (and I do have Starretts, too) -- imho the Brown & Sharpe are the better.
geo

[nicholst55]

I had a Chinesium 'crescent' wrench fail me recently, and went looking for another made in USA replacement. Better hit Ebay and the pawn shops; the "good" ones are made in Spain, now. The forge(s) have shut down in this country.

[Electrod47]

There was a time when precision instruments were designed to be used by human craftsmen.....no need to say anymore.

[dverna]

I bought my gerstner Journeyman boxes around 1983, Mine are walnut. Gerstner used to offer oak walnut and cherry. Now it looks like only Oak. What I find unique is ladies will buy the older gerstner apprentice model, send them back for restoration and then use them for jewelry boxes.

While foreign tools are good I wonder how many will make the 3-4 generations like starret, browne and sharpe, lufkin. I have some Lufkins that were bought by my grandfather then my Dad and now me. One of the guys in gauge and layout told me the cheap tools would pass ISO inspection for a few years before failing. The above would pass for the whole carreer of the owner then some. Federal finger indicators would get sticky over time. And there were no replacement tips when the ball got a flat worn on it.
My starret junior mechanical indicator was made around 1900 and is still accurate and free moving. Even at 120 years old.

Great post.

I have Starrett micrometer my dad gave me when I graduated in Engineering 50 years ago. Today it would cost $150+. Mitutoyo's are less than half the price. For the hobby user, good enough is good enough.

It is bit like buying Snap-on tools vs Kobalt etc. Just how much better are they for the guy not using them everyday for a living.

[YoungGun88]

americans aren't even made in the usa anymore.

this

[country gent]

Times were like my family the tools were handed down from grandfather to father to son to grandchildren also as the sons followed in the fathers trade and a lot of times at the same shop or factory. In some shops tool boxes never changed just the person who had the key.

Starrett, Brown and Sharpe, Lufkin, and a few others. Then there were the local makers that made precision tools in every big city. Lufkins line of precision tool has been gone for years, as has Slocomb. Im afraid Starrett and Browne and Sharpe are going to follow and even the names will be gone.

One change in industry is most tool cribs have the measuring tools to be used and owing your own is becoming a luxury in a way. Now go and sign out the tool you need and return at the end of the day. The trades are changing in many aspects.

[dtknowles]

I can’t say that I blame you one bit , I hate being lied to. Hard to know what is and isn’t made in the U.S. anymore.

I feel that you must intended to deceive to be lying. Unintentionally spreading misinformation is not lying but it is bad form. If you know what you are saying is false that is lying. If you are lying certainly you will not try to make things right, your intent was to deceive. If you care about the truth then you would correct any misinformation you spread. Bearing false witness is a sin and a crime.
Tim

[Jeff Michel]

I was a fan of Brown and Sharpe until I purchased my last dial caliper from them.......Made in Brazil. Rack was all burred up, took it apart, stoned all the offending surfaces, used it for a month, kept jumping teeth and ended up going out in the chip barrel.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This is the exact reason why I buy Generic Tools from Harbor Freight. When I found out Snap On was sourcing from China but still charging Snap On Prices,,, I was done.

I have several sets of Calipers, Tesa bought in 1978 used virtually everyday in my shop. An Identical B&S Caliper bought in the 1990s that is currently being rebuilt by my Instrument guy. I also have two Mitutoyo 12" calipers which I also use virtually day. I rate the Mits as just behind the Tesa which is now 48 years old !

My First Calipers were Starrett, they had an Open Rack so they got dirt and chips in the works. They were sold at a swap meet for almost what I paid for them new because the guy "thought" they were the good stuff? Who was I to argue with him a certified Harley Mechanic?

I have Tesa and Etalon Micrometers and they are the best there are, but I got them at auction for a lot less than new price which I never could afford. I have 0-9 Etalons which would have been about $3000 worth when I got them in the 1990's I paid $500 for the whole set and only the 0-1 had been used. I have never used the 8-9" or a couple of others and the rest have only seen very little use. IE: they are all new!

If I was going to start a machine shop nowadays I'd buy Mitutoyos as they are good and still reasonably priced.

I am sick of Name Brand outfits "outsourcing to China" and putting their good name on those inferior products.

I can buy a Large Combo Wrench at HF for <$20 whereas the name brand will be over $100 and won't do anything better, and turns out it is made in the same factory as the HF Tools are!

My .02

Randy

[Green Frog]

I bought my gerstner Journeyman boxes around 1983, Mine are walnut. Gerstner used to offer oak walnut and cherry. Now it looks like only Oak. What I find unique is ladies will buy the older gerstner apprentice model, send them back for restoration and then use them for jewelry boxes.

Somehow I got on Gerstner's mailing list and get an email ad from them about once a week or more. Anyway, they are advertising American made and "International" or foreign made at somewhat lower prices. They also list seconds from time to time. Another thing, they now make boxes in a much wider variety of styles including jewelry boxes, portable bars, shooting boxes, etc. Also, they do still offer a variety of woods and unless I'm mistaken even offered the leatherette covering on a special edition box recently.

Froggie

[JRLesan]

Bust your knuckles (or worse) just once with cheapo tools and buying quality ones with a higher price tag will make a whole lot more sense...

[Green Frog]

Bust your knuckles (or worse) just once with cheapo tools and buying quality ones with a higher price tag will make a whole lot more sense...

Unfortunately, price alone is no indicator of quality. If you read through this thread, there are lots of instances of the cheapening of name brand tools… caveat emptor!
Froggie

[farmbif]

its a world wide economy. do a little bit of looking into where machines are made these days. only a few lathes and mills are made in USA and ones coming out of tiawan and other countries are used in many of our factories and shops. South Bend lathes are not made here any more. Bridgeport mills are assembled and finished here from what I understand but the parts and pieces are made over seas, in England there is a plant producing Bridgeport mills. Wells Index is the only manufacturer making mills in USA. Ive got an old 845 at m y moms place that need rebuilding and Wells index will completely rebuild the top half, new quill and all, for about $5000, awesome.

[M-Tecs]

Not Manual but Haas claims to be US made. Not sure if that includes the electronics?

[uscra112]

The forge(s) have shut down in this country.

Ditto foundries...thanks to over-regulation by the EPA. Don't get me started.............

[country gent]

Machineing shops are even getting hit by the epa do to the oils, coolants,and solvents being deemed hazardous materials.

[uscra112]

Right. I went to buy some Tap Magic a few months ago, and found that the name has been applied to a "green" formulation because of EPA and/or OSHA. You CAN still get the original formula if you search hard enough, so I bought two just in case it disappears altogether.

[uscra112]

BTW a year or two ago I bought a new Fowler mike, the kind with the mechanical digital readout. Fowler used to be mostly Swiss, but this one came from China. In all fairness, it is well made, can't distinguish it from the older ones, and it checks very well against my jo-blocks.

[country gent]

Watch out for the Tap Magic ultra thick it will discolor and cause rust. The old tap magic ( peppermint water) would when used on stainless.

One of the best I have found is anchor lube its a great high pressure cutting lube. Get yourself a 2 ounce trial bottle and give it a try. If you contact and ask for one they will send it free.
Try finding the sulfur black oils now.

[Shawlerbrook]

A good reason to hit garage sales and flea markets( although a lot of. Nina junk at some vendors).

[gc45]

I have maybe 20 old mics, Brown and Sharpe and Sterrett both, all work well holding accuracy and bought used whenever I found them. I bought two, new Mitutoyo mics 5 years ago and they are suberb tools for me getting used often when making stuff on my lathe or doing my own gunwork. My preferance is mechanical mics, never trusted digital stuff, old school I guess.

[Duckiller]

Tools aren't the only thing that has been out soursed. #1 son is getting into fly fishing with his 4 year old daughter. I am provideing rods and reels because I have a bunch that I have acquired over the years. Son is going to get Pluger Medalist reels. When I aquired my first one in the early 70's they were made in the USA. The last ones I bought several years ago were stamped Made in China. Spools and parts are interchangeable with US and China reels. These reels all work to catch fish. May have to spend a bunch of money on American made reels if I have luck catching salmom on flies. Only if the larger fish make the china reels bend or warp. At my age in my early 80s I don't need expensive tools or reels, just thing that work.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Not Manual but Haas claims to be US made. Not sure if that includes the electronics?

HAAS Machines are made in Oxnard CA on Sturgis Road. I drive by the place every Wednesday on my way to the Camarillo Gun Store. I tried to get a job in their Engineering Dept. once but they wouldn't hire me because I didn't have a College Degree.

Never mind that I designed and built from scratch one of the most popular CNC Lathes (Omni Turn Slant 75) ever produced with over 20,000 sold. Never mind that I had worked for Gaiser Tool Company (Now owned by Coors Beer) designing their Automated Production Machinery for 7 years and already had my own Machine shop in Ventura.

I asked how many of their Engineers had completely designed and built any of their machines? They said none, but Gene Haas demanded an Engineering Degree for all Mechanical and Electrical Engineers employed there. He funded the Engineering Department at Cal State Northridge, and that's where most of his recruits came from.

That said, if I was buying any CNC machine today it would say "Haas" on it.. I think they make the best CNC Machinery out there. At one time in the early 2000's they were shipping 500 machines a month to China. (until China figured out how to make their own!) This went on for several years and and that is how Haas paid for his NASCAR and Formula One Teams. He's worth $250 Million! He's now 71 years old.

Randy

[GregLaROCHE]

I just got some from China last week. I didn’t pay that much and therefore, didn’t expect too much. However, they are not that bad. With a bit off stoning and polishing they should work ok.