Lead ammo ban in Wisconsin

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Just FYI. There is a question on the Conservation Congress asking whether lead ammo should be banned for hunting in Wisconsin. You can vote tonight, or online later this week.

[405grain]

I have friends that are hunters in Wisconsin. Do you have a link to where they can cast their vote?

[racepres]

You Recon they gonna follow you around as you Hunt???
Bust out and Be a Law Breaker...just like yer Fearless Leader....

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I don't know if there just isn't a live link yet or what. On-line input doesn't begin until the 10th. I will return and post a link to the on-line input when I find out more.

In the mean time, here is a FAQ page on the on-line input process.

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/sites/default/files/topic/About/WCC/2024/SpringHearing/FINAL_2024SpringHearingOnlineInputFAQ.pdf

[405grain]

racepres: Yes, they do. There's a lead bullet ban in effect in California. People here are not allowed to hunt with any bullets that contain lead. (this includes 22 long rifle and muzzleloaders) The department of Fish and Wildlife WILL stop you and inspect your ammunition. If you're caught hunting, or even possessing ammo that contains lead while your on a hunt, you will be cited and have to pay a hefty fine. I'm not sure if they will confiscate your firearm, but I'm about 99% sure that they will. The game wardens can come onto any public or private property in this state without a warrant. Please don't tell people to break the law unless you're willing to stand beside them while their facing a judge.

[turtlezx]

great no lead,, no firearms instate parks,, = mountain lion bait. Think i would take the fine

[racepres]

Wondering if Zinc Counts??? Can they tell the difference?
Pewter????

[max it]

racepres: Yes, they do. There's a lead bullet ban in effect in California. People here are not allowed to hunt with any bullets that contain lead. (this includes 22 long rifle and muzzleloaders) The department of Fish and Wildlife WILL stop you and inspect your ammunition. If you're caught hunting, or even possessing ammo that contains lead while your on a hunt, you will be cited and have to pay a hefty fine. I'm not sure if they will confiscate your firearm, but I'm about 99% sure that they will. The game wardens can come onto any public or private property in this state without a warrant. Please don't tell people to break the law unless you're willing to stand beside them while their facing a judge.

Amen, a friend here in Kali had one round left in his chamber. His fine was $7,000. And that after pleading for Mercy from the Judge.

[405grain]

Once California initiated it's ban on lead hunting bullets, any bullets used for hunting must be tested and placed on an approved list for them to be considered legal. Even if you cast your own bullets out of zinc or tin, you'd still have to pay the state to test your cast bullets to have them placed on the approved list. This wouldn't make ALL the bullets cast from that material, in that mold style, legal for hunting - just your own cast bullets. Unless you were a bullet manufacturer or distributor I would assume that getting your own bullets tested and approved would be cost prohibitive. The way I solve these problems is to drive for hundreds of miles and cross over an imaginary line to hunt in another state.

[racepres]

Once California initiated it's ban on lead hunting bullets, any bullets used for hunting must be tested and placed on an approved list for them to be considered legal. Even if you cast your own bullets out of zinc or tin, you'd still have to pay the state to test your cast bullets to have them placed on the approved list. This wouldn't make ALL the bullets cast from that material, in that mold style, legal for hunting - just your own cast bullets. Unless you were a bullet manufacturer or distributor I would assume that getting your own bullets tested and approved would be cost prohibitive. The way I solve these problems is to drive for hundreds of miles and cross over an imaginary line to hunt in another state.

Luckily...I vowed back in the '70's...No Kommiefornia for Me!!
Michigan ain't far behind tho...

[Wooserco]

Luckily...I vowed back in the '70's...No Kommiefornia for Me!!
Michigan ain't far behind tho...

You are sooo correct about that. Just follow the I94 / I69 corridor.

[Bird]

For california hunting, you can still cast your own boolits using rotometals non lead alloy. It is on the california approved list. It is $15.00 per lb.
https://wildlife.ca.gov/Hunting/Nonlead-Ammunition/Certified

[dverna]

If I wanted to hunt in a lead free state, I would buy Barnes lead free bullets. They are about $1 each. Once a load is worked up, every year you I would use 3 shots to check POI, maybe another 3 shots if an adjustment is needed and one shot per critter per year. $5-10 a year for hunting bullets is not going to be a game changer. My jacketed lead bullets cost $.40 each. A cost increase of less than $6 a year is inconsequential.

It is a stupid law, but 99% of hunters can work around it. It affects a small percentage of hunters that want to use their own lead bullets.

Hope it gets defeated. I am not worried about hunting but fear it will someday apply to all bullets. That would make plinking and target practice very expensive.

[elmacgyver0]

If I wanted to hunt in a lead free state, I would buy Barnes lead free bullets. They are about $1 each. Once a load is worked up, every year you I would use 3 shots to check POI, maybe another 3 shots if an adjustment is needed and one shot per critter per year. $5-10 a year for hunting bullets is not going to be a game changer. My jacketed lead bullets cost $.40 each. A cost increase of less than $6 a year is inconsequential.

It is a stupid law, but 99% of hunters can work around it. It affects a small percentage of hunters that want to use their own lead bullets.

Hope it gets defeated. I am not worried about hunting but fear it will someday apply to all bullets. That would make plinking and target practice very expensive.
All bullets is no doubt the goal.

[dondiego]

If I wanted to hunt in a lead free state, I would buy Barnes lead free bullets. They are about $1 each. Once a load is worked up, every year you I would use 3 shots to check POI, maybe another 3 shots if an adjustment is needed and one shot per critter per year. $5-10 a year for hunting bullets is not going to be a game changer. My jacketed lead bullets cost $.40 each. A cost increase of less than $6 a year is inconsequential.

It is a stupid law, but 99% of hunters can work around it. It affects a small percentage of hunters that want to use their own lead bullets.

Hope it gets defeated. I am not worried about hunting but fear it will someday apply to all bullets. That would make plinking and target practice very expensive.

My concern is the ban on all lead bullets and all lead shot at all shooting clubs. It is coming. Could they do that at a club located on a lead mine property, say in Missouri where lead is removed from the ground?.

[DougGuy]

great no lead,, no firearms instate parks,, = mountain lion bait. Think i would take the fine

Look at all the $$ you save taking a bus OUT OF KOMIFORNIA!

[Soundguy]

How will muzzle loaders handle this? Tin seems too hard?? Bismuth?

[TheAbe]

There was probably already a post about this a few weeks ago when it was proposed, but Minnesota is proposing something similar. Except in the case of Minnesota (to my understanding), the ban would be on lead for hunting, lead for shooting sports, and lead for all commercial ranges. I haven't seen anything about public comments, but I remember reading an article that quoted one of the proponents of the bill citing the "dire health and environmental consequences of lead use." I think I even saw someone quoted saying that lead exposure leads to various disorders in youth including decreased attention spans.
Personally, I would think that being involved in shooting sports and reloading and casting specifically would tend to require one to increase their attention spans, but what do I know...

[BJung]

I am a Californian and the lead-free idea spread from protecting the endangered Condor species. I suggest contacting your State NRA to discuss what approaches can be used to defeat this proposition. After the lead hunting bullet ban, groups went after the gun ranges. Here in the SF Bay Area, ranges have been closed because those who are against guns cited lead poisoning of the water table. Three ranges were closed, and existing ranges now have to be vigilant. For example, an indoor club I belong to was discovered by the City Officials. Before, I'd mine the range with a sifter for the .22lr and pellets and later melt it into ingots for person use. Now the City requires full hazmat gear and picking up the pellets with tweezers. I don't get lead from there anymore.

[405grain]

Good to know that Rotometals lead free alloy is on the approved list. I don't want for this topic to start skirting on the political rather than the reloading and hunting point of view, but there is one thing that should be pointed out; increasingly environmental issues are being used to restrict shooting sports. One of the tracts of public land where lots of people liked to shoot was recently closed because the state, working in coordination with one of the state universities, released 10 endangered lizards onto 1 acre way out in the back country where there are no roads or trails, on a tract of federal public land that's way over 600 acres. I looked online at another tract of federal public land that's to the north, and the gate there is also locked. The picture was blurred, but it looks like there were signs and messages about some endangered rat or bug or something. It's not just lead and endangered species, municipalities also use "noise abatement" as an excuse to close shooting areas. These uses of environmental issues being focused on restricting shooting areas are becoming more common. On the radio last week I heard a commentator referring to the individuals that are championing this as "watermelons" (they look green on the outside, but they're red on the inside) Again, this is skirting on the edge of becoming a political topic rather than a casting and reloading issue so I'm going to refrain from posting further about it. If you live in Wisconsin or plan on hunting there contact their Conservation Congress and let them know that you are opposed to them banning lead bullets.

[35 Rem]

Whether the anti-gun looneys are thinking this through with a final objective of a total ban on all lead bullets for any purpose or not, doing it one step at a time and starting with hunters 1st will eventually get there. And if all ammo goes to the solid monolithic copper alloy bullets, then shooting is basically dead because of the cost. Sure, the cost doesn't matter for Barnes TTSX bullets when used only for hunting but if that was all you had for all your guns then it gets into some serious money. Few are going to go to the range and shoot 50 or 100 rounds every month of even a couple times a year with such expensive ammo.

[Charlie Horse]

What are you suppose to squirrel hunt with?

[dverna]

What are you suppose to squirrel hunt with?

There are 4 companies making lead free .22 LR that I know of. Norma, Winchester, CCI and Federal...might be more.

I saw one report on the Norma stuff and it did not shoot well at all. 1.5" groups at 50 yards.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

It would affect me greatly. All my deer hunting is with a traditional flintlock with a slow rifle twist. I don't think there would be any way to get a copper bullet to stabilize. .

[dverna]

It would affect me greatly. All my deer hunting is with a traditional flintlock with a slow rifle twist. I don't think there would be any way to get a copper bullet to stabilize. .

Rotometals makes an alloy that will work. Bismuth alloy IIRC.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Rotometals makes an alloy that will work. Bismuth alloy IIRC.

I hope it doesn't pass. But if it did - we would have to hope that it didn't include some language requiring ammo to be from an approved manufacturer i.e. you can't just cast your own.

[BJung]

I recently discovered sabots for BPR loads. For example, there are 50cal sabots that use 45 copper bullets. I don't know how accurate they are though.

I've read in threads a year ago that Roto-metals was offering it's non-lead material for casters to try out. Has anyone tested this metal?

I've heard air gun shooters using their rifles to hunt with. Maybe there is a loophole where air rifles are not firearms so the lead pellets subject to CA Law? I don't know, just throwing this out there.

[Barry54]

Wasn’t there a thread on this site a while back about a 20? Caliber rimfire cartridge based on the 22 LR brass without the heeled bullet, that was better suited to lead free? Most everyone was bashing it. What was it called?

[35 Rem]

I wonder how many game departments would recognize a powder coated bullet as being lead underneath the pretty outer coating? Most hunters/game wardens have no idea what portion of the cartridge the bullet even is. I bet that most of the time you could powder coat with some metalic color and use cast bullets indefinitely.

This same issue comes up when a game department outlaws "solids" and cast shooters start getting extremely analytic about hardness of their cast bullets and at what BHN they transition from "soft points" to "solids". I don't think ANY game warden is going to give that degree scrutiny to a bullet. They would simply look at the ammo and see that it either does or does not have a full metal jacket.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with shooters using their voice to fight these nutty laws. They can be used against all gun owners by demonizing lead as the material for any bullet and not just for hunting.

[elmacgyver0]

The end game is getting rid of civilian held guns, if that can't be done directly then it will fall to getting rid of the ammunition.

[45_Colt]

Wasn’t there a thread on this site a while back about a 20? Caliber rimfire cartridge based on the 22 LR brass without the heeled bullet, that was better suited to lead free? Most everyone was bashing it. What was it called?

IIRC, it was the 21 Sharp.

45_Colt

[dverna]

IIRC, it was the 21 Sharp.

45_Colt

Correct.

It has been so popular, guns and ammunition are impossible to get.

[HumptyDumpty]

There was probably already a post about this a few weeks ago when it was proposed, but Minnesota is proposing something similar. Except in the case of Minnesota (to my understanding), the ban would be on lead for hunting, lead for shooting sports, and lead for all commercial ranges. I haven't seen anything about public comments, but I remember reading an article that quoted one of the proponents of the bill citing the "dire health and environmental consequences of lead use." I think I even saw someone quoted saying that lead exposure leads to various disorders in youth including decreased attention spans.
Personally, I would think that being involved in shooting sports and reloading and casting specifically would tend to require one to increase their attention spans, but what do I know...
I'm pretty sure it has more to do with parents shoving tablets into the hands of toddlers. These kids are addicted to glowing screens, endless video clips, and social media, nearly from the womb.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I see you do not have to be a resident of Wisconsin to voice your opinion. You just cannot be anonymous, you have to supply name and address.

So if you hunt or fish in Wisconsin or may in the future - this survey is for you. You have to wade through other questions, but you can check “no opinion” if you want to speed through it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Once California initiated it's ban on lead hunting bullets, any bullets used for hunting must be tested and placed on an approved list for them to be considered legal. Even if you cast your own bullets out of zinc or tin, you'd still have to pay the state to test your cast bullets to have them placed on the approved list. This wouldn't make ALL the bullets cast from that material, in that mold style, legal for hunting - just your own cast bullets. Unless you were a bullet manufacturer or distributor I would assume that getting your own bullets tested and approved would be cost prohibitive. The way I solve these problems is to drive for hundreds of miles and cross over an imaginary line to hunt in another state.

It doesn't cost anything to get your Non Lead Boolits put on the CA Approved List. I got my Brass Slugs R Us (Pre Leon) Shotgun Slugs approved in about a week. They are on the "Approved List" and I have never sold even one of them or used them for hunting,,, But I can.

I got mine in by calling the Head Fish and Wildlife guy for the Central Coast, "Todd Tognazzinni." (Ask me how I remember that name?) and he sent me directly to the person who took care of it.

The hot tip for Hunting in CA is to just buy some Non Toxic Bullets from an "approved source" and load them yourself, or buy approved loaded ammo. A box of loaded ammo for your chosen Rifle should last you for many hunts. Also don't carry any more than about 5 rounds into the field.

Randy

[dverna]

Randy, I had noticed your slugs were on the CA list and wondered what hoops you had to go through. Thanks for posting your experience.

I am against a lead bullet ban but like I posted earlier, I could deal with it without too much pain. A box of Barnes copper bullets to work up a hunting oad and two boxes for checking zero and hunting every year will be a lifetime supply for this old man. $150 is not the end of the world. Shooting varmints would get costly.

Even CA does not ban lead bullets for target shooting but I fear that would be the next step. Lead free alloy from Rotometals is $15/lb. Their prices are typically much higher than other suppliers for alloy, but even at $10/lb, shooting will be prohibitively expensive. Zinc bullets would meet the lead-free standard, but we would need to learn to cast/load them. Zinc would be OK for target shooting.

[white eagle]

what are they trying to do end hunting in Wisconsin?
So what is the problem with lead?
Does it come from outer space? If I recall they mine it out of the earth so what's the problem with putting it back?

[fredj338]

They did it n kommifornia on public lands. They claim it kills birds of prey but anyone that hunts know's that is BS.They just want us to not hunt.

[murf205]

They did it n kommifornia on public lands. They claim it kills birds of prey but anyone that hunts know's that is BS.They just want us to not hunt.



Did anyone ever document a real world instance of a California Condor (or any other wildlife for that matter) eating a lead boolit, much less dying from that?

[dondiego]

Did anyone ever document a real world instance of a California Condor (or any other wildlife for that matter) eating a lead boolit, much less dying from that?

I believe that lead contamination was verified in dabbling ducks that frequented heavily shot over areas.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The Condors were supposed to be eating Gut piles left by Hunters, and since Diane Feinstein saw a video of a Varmint built blowing up she assumed that all bullets blow up when they hit an animal, adn that was the official reason for the ban.

Just so you know I live right next to the Ventura River. It is the 2nd Most Endangered Fishery in the US ! It is dry for 99% of the year so the Endangered Steel Trout have to walk up the river bed from the coast about 15-20 miles. This particular fish Species hactually has legs and they make the trip every year to Spawn in the Swimming Pools of the Liberal Idiots in Ojai CA.

Please Note: a Steel Head is nothing more than a Rainbow Trout that goes out to Sea and the Salt Water turns it's Scales Silver, Every fish that comes down that river and is actually successful at getting over the Berm at the mouth of the Ventura River was hatched at the Fillmore Fish Hatchery and planted in Lake Casitas (By my Home) every Thursday during the summer.

Please read this, it explains what is going on here in CA.

Rules Governing Democratic Behavior
1. Democrats Screw Up Everything They Touch.
2. Whatever they accuse you of, they are already doing.
3. Democrats will lie about anything, no matter how insignificant.
4. When all else fails, they call you a Racist!



Randy

[405grain]

I didn't know that it was possible for an individual to get their home made lead free bullets on the California approved list without having to pay for the state to test them. This is good to know, but I do all my hunting out of state because of the ban. One of the posters asked how would a warden know if a powder coated bullet was lead free or not? In California a warden can take possession of one of your cartridges and have it sent in for testing. This violates your constitutional right of presumption of innocence as well as your right against unreasonable searches and seizure of your property, but they don't care. The judge that hears your case also won't care. If you file an appeal you'll find out that the appellate court doesn't care. Even when the US Supreme Court issues a finding that California disagrees with, they just ignore it. It's far better try and not let bans like this one go into effect in the first place.

[67ray]

racepres: Yes, they do. There's a lead bullet ban in effect in California. People here are not allowed to hunt with any bullets that contain lead. (this includes 22 long rifle and muzzleloaders) The department of Fish and Wildlife WILL stop you and inspect your ammunition. If you're caught hunting, or even possessing ammo that contains lead while your on a hunt, you will be cited and have to pay a hefty fine. I'm not sure if they will confiscate your firearm, but I'm about 99% sure that they will. The game wardens can come onto any public or private property in this state without a warrant. Please don't tell people to break the law unless you're willing to stand beside them while their facing a judge.

Sounds like a 4th Amendment violation to me . . . tell them to pound sand

[Bird]

''Even when the US Supreme Court issues a finding that California disagrees with, they just ignore it.''
There is a california politician that said '' California does not necessarily follow the constitution.''

[murf205]

After all, remember it is hard to say politician with using the term "knee jerk reaction" They are afraid some other politician running against them will say that they knew those evil boolits were killing some pooooor little animal and DIDN'T DO 1 THING TO STOP IT! The sad part of this entire story is that the voters don't know the truth or don't want to hear it. The one redeeming factor of my home states governing body is that most of them are hunters or are friends with hunters/shooters who know the difference. I'm not feeling overly smug because it can change in a flash. Wisconsin is not exactly devoid of hunters but when the larger cities run the show, all bets are off. Good luck to you brothers.