Where lead came from in the old days (USA style)

[15meter]

Stumbled on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HhdkkdsvTM

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Very informative, thanks for sharing.

[georgerkahn]

Stumbled on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HhdkkdsvTM

In Gouverneur, New York -- not too distant from me -- St. Joseph's had a lead mine, and my next door neighbor worked there as a carpenter. That's all I knew/know about the mine, other than he professed it was quite the "elevator" ride down to the working level. The video makes me think of the tunneling of ants -- I never imagined the mined caverns being so huge! Funny, too, that nowadays we're "supposed to" wear gloves and respirators near, much less being in contact with lead -- and these workers clearly wore neither! MOST interesting video! Thank you for sharing!
geo

[Battis]

I'm impressed at the technology they had in 1948. I wonder how the worker's health fared as they aged. The narrator talks about putting lead in gas, lead in paint...
I found a 15' pure lead water pipe under a floor in my house - I made roundballs out of it. I've seen antique toothpaste tubes made of lead.
Great video.

[uscra112]

There were lead mines along the upper Mississippi when the Spaniards still owned it in the 1600s. Galena IL. is one site. Dubuque is another

Also around the Wood River region of Idaho. They were actually after silver, but silver and lead are often found together.

[Wag]

There was an old lead smelter in Sullivan, MO where I lived as a small boy. Apparently, there was quite the industry there in several types of mines. I know my grandfather worked in the iron mine until lit closed in the mid 70's. Guessing about the timing.

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/sullivan-missouri/

Glancing through the search results, apparently, there are still a few lead production facilities in Missouri.

--Wag--

[Rickf1985]

How many of you were drooling over all those lead bars as they were loaded into the railcars? I know I was. I also noted the safety harnesses in the mines! That was WAY ahead of it's time. I did see that the workers at the last smelting stage where they were taking the powdered dross off were wearing masks, probably not much more than a fabric filter but it was something.

[Kraschenbirn]

Was at the Missouri State Historical Site at Park Hills (old Federal Mine #3) and went through the museum there. Really interesting and the museum staff...mostly former mine employees...are willing to provide a lot more information than in the brochures. After looking at some of the pics I took while I was there, I think the Bureau of Mines film was probably shot there, too.

Was interesting for me because I grew up in northwestern Illinois, right next to the Galena lead mining area. Recall several abandoned mine excavations while hunting in the hill country around there when I was in high school.

Bill

[Gtrubicon]

That was very interesting, thanks for posting it.

[dondiego]

I was surprised at the number of steps required to get from galena to ingot!

[Delkal]

Interesting that for the final purification to remove the silver, copper, and nickel from the lead they add zinc and it forms an amalgam (at ~23 min). Normally the last thing we would do is intentionally add zinc to our pure lead. I am wondering if this will work in reverse? What would happen if you add some copper powder to your zinc contaminated lead?

[sundog]

Tar Creek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_Creek_Superfund_site) - first paragraph points out a few health hazards.

[longbow]

I spent most of my adult working life in and around the Cominco Lead/Zinc smelter in tTrail, B.C. Canada. I was surrounded by thousands of tons of lead but couldn't even buy any! Before lead was considered "evil" the smelter let the crews take what they wanted but that changed many years ago. I know a guy who was an operator in the refinery and he used to take his bullet moulds in and cast when he had time. The bullets went home in his lunch box!

The Trail lead refinery was the first electrolytic lead refinery in the world and produces 90,000 tons of lead/year. The Smelter takes lead concentrtate and pyro refines it then ships 6 ton pigs to the lead refinery where it is cast into anodes then put in electrolytic cells where the lead is dissolved off the anodes and plated onto pure lead mother sheets at the cathodes then that becomes product lead at 99.999% purity. The black slimes left on the anode contains a lot of silver and some gold along with arsenic and other things. The slimes are dried then processed in the silver refinery.

There are several 235 ton pots containing both product lead to be cast into pigs as well as recycled anodes to be remelted and recast into new anodes with the addition of smelter lead. I was always tempted but never took any lead home! I scrounge like most people.

A link to a pic of the original tank room in the early 1900's:

https://search-bcarchives.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/lead-refinery-cominco-smelter-trail-b-c

What it looks like now:

https://www.teck.com/products/other-metals

Longbow

[quilbilly]

Lead is often associated with the silver in solver mine in Nevada. I once visited a ghost town with silver mines and in the tailings many of the rubble seemed like almost pure lead.

[Chill Wills]

That was a good old film. I think I saw sometime in the dim past.

In the 1980's I owned a house in Leadville, CO. Leadville, a mining town was primary about Silver mines. We never hear much about Lead bi-products of silver and gold mining but I am sure there was some. Most of the mines closed and mining of silver had ended by the time I had a house there but the big mine that employed everyone at that time was Climax that produced Molybdenum. I imagine in the name of reclaiming every last dollar, any secondary metals like lead were processed.

[Bill M]

100+ years ago there was a small mining town northeast of Deming NM called Cook's Peak. All underground operations and a lot of silver was mined, but the high lead concentration caused the miners enough health problems that it was was abandoned.

[35 Rem]

I enjoyed that thoroughly! I never imagined a mine being so large as those shown. Glad they included the look at the end showing how much raw materials are taken from the ground to produce one lead bar of 130lbs I'm going to bookmark this video so I can watch it again.

[Rickf1985]

I spent most of my adult working life in and around the Cominco Lead/Zinc smelter in tTrail, B.C. Canada. I was surrounded by thousands of tons of lead but couldn't even buy any! Before lead was considered "evil" the smelter let the crews take what they wanted but that changed many years ago. I know a guy who was an operator in the refinery and he used to take his bullet moulds in and cast when he had time. The bullets went home in his lunch box!

The Trail lead refinery was the first electrolytic lead refinery in the world and produces 90,000 tons of lead/year. The Smelter takes lead concentrtate and pyro refines it then ships 6 ton pigs to the lead refinery where it is cast into anodes then put in electrolytic cells where the lead is dissolved off the anodes and plated onto pure lead mother sheets at the cathodes then that becomes product lead at 99.999% purity. The black slimes left on the anode contains a lot of silver and some gold along with arsenic and other things. The slimes are dried then processed in the silver refinery.

There are several 235 ton pots containing both product lead to be cast into pigs as well as recycled anodes to be remelted and recast into new anodes with the addition of smelter lead. I was always tempted but never took any lead home! I scrounge like most people.

A link to a pic of the original tank room in the early 1900's:

https://search-bcarchives.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/lead-refinery-cominco-smelter-trail-b-c

What it looks like now:

https://www.teck.com/products/other-metals

Longbow

Looking at those two pictures side by side you can see that little has changed other than the modern handling machinery.

[TurnipEaterDown]

Some may appreciate:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17445647.2022.2057877

[country gent]

Back in the day Lead was a high demand commodity. used in the new fangled indoor out houses and other plumbing, roofs, fuels to lubricate valves, seals, construction and solders. It was easy to work with and cast low temps that were easily obtainable. In organs and other instruments it gave a true tone. It was used for kids toys even. A lot was cast or formed on site as needed.
There were many actual lead mines and also the side benefit of silver and copper mines where lead was present along with the main ore. A big benefit was unlike the other ores lead was much easier to refine into a usable product.

[Rickf1985]

Some may appreciate:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17445647.2022.2057877

Interesting, I wonder if anyone has ever gone back down in those mines to do a visual survey? Or are they all flooded?

[Kraschenbirn]

Interesting, I wonder if anyone has ever gone back down in those mines to do a visual survey? Or are they all flooded?

When I was at the old Federal #3 two years ago (see my post #8), I was told by one of the (ex-miner?) tour guides that when the mine was shut down, after the salvageable equipment was removed, the entrances were closed with all the ore cart tracks, electrical wiring, and support structure left intact. He made no mention of any groundwater flooding but, given the depth of those excavations, I would be surprised if everything below the local water table isn't flooded.

Bill

[bowfin]

Is is Paul Harvey who is narrating this film? It sure sounds like him.

[TurnipEaterDown]

When I was at the old Federal #3 two years ago (see my post #8), I was told by one of the (ex-miner?) tour guides that when the mine was shut down, after the salvageable equipment was removed, the entrances were closed with all the ore cart tracks, electrical wiring, and support structure left intact. He made no mention of any groundwater flooding but, given the depth of those excavations, I would be surprised if everything below the local water table isn't flooded.

Bill

My understanding is that Eagle Picher in this district is flooded, and is leaching lead into the down stream waterways to a significant extent.
There was a you-tube video and other info on topic I saw a couple years ago. The video was lots of drama, with some accusations at Inhoffe (Senator), but, there is EPA attention too, so the truth is probably a mixed bag.

[Charlie Horse]

Thanks for sharing the link. This is not far from where I live. I wonder if there is some way to take a tour. My niece and her husband live in Herculaneum.

But yes, I'm glad to live upstream from there.

[jrayborn]

I have to admit that I am not an educated man, but I fail to see how lead can contaminate water? Lots of folks have no idea but there are THOUSANDS of miles of lead pipes that supply drinking water all over our country. My little town had a small project replacing or upgrading some water mains and there was lead pipes all over. Lead forms some kind of corrosion that keeps it from contacting the water I believe. Lead is NOT the specter people make it out to be in most cases.

One summer I smelted somewhere near 4 thousand pounds of wheel weights and had been casting bullets for years prior to that. With that much exposure, and having young kids (I kept them away from lead) I had a blood test that registered zero.

Be careful, wash your hands, don't lick the lead to test hardness... :)

[Bill M]

20+ years ago, we were using Forest Service land for our club shoots after we lost our range, the local Ranger was trying to shut us down! However, seems the FS had done a study back east on some of the old battlefields, and found that the lead oxides had only moved a few inches around the ball in over a hundred years, and weren't contaminating the groundwater.
The result was that target shooting was an approved use of FS lands!

[Charlie Horse]

I have to admit that I am not an educated man, but I fail to see how lead can contaminate water? Lots of folks have no idea but there are THOUSANDS of miles of lead pipes that supply drinking water all over our country. My little town had a small project replacing or upgrading some water mains and there was lead pipes all over. Lead forms some kind of corrosion that keeps it from contacting the water I believe. Lead is NOT the specter people make it out to be in most cases.

One summer I smelted somewhere near 4 thousand pounds of wheel weights and had been casting bullets for years prior to that. With that much exposure, and having young kids (I kept them away from lead) I had a blood test that registered zero.

Be careful, wash your hands, don't lick the lead to test hardness... :)

Nobody registers zero.

"0.855 µg/dL In 2017-2018, this was the typical BLL among adults in the United States.1"
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/lead/referencebloodlevelsforadults.html

This is the acceptable level:

"5 µg/dL The ABLES program uses 5 µg/dL to indicate an elevated BLL for surveillance purposes."

I have tested above and below the 5 µg/dL level. My doctor quit testing me recently because it has stayed stready around that number, and I don't think it matters that much when you are around 70 years old. Not much chance I'll have a baby anytime soon.:veryconfu