Scratches on the drive bands of a cast bullet

[FISH4BUGS]

I know this is all about the sizer die.
The facts: 4 cavity H&G #237 200gr lswc gc.
Awesome bullet and mould. Great 44 mag full house lower recoil bullet.
Alloy is 5lbs ww to 1lb lino.
Star sizer @ .430" and Magma lube.
After sizing .430" and gas checking there are some very minor scratches on the drive bands.
It just bothers me that the scratches are there.
I took a drill and a brass 45 cleaning brush and spun it in the sizer die. Ran it for a couple of minutes.
I shot 1000 rounds of cast 45acp like that and it didn't seem to hurt a thing.
How to get clean the die to get rid of these annoying tiny scratches on the bullet so they are not there after sizing?

[jsizemore]

Is some of the gas check getting hung on the lube holes in the sizing die? Maybe base first instead of nose first?

[country gent]

Run several bullets thru with an orientation mark this will give you an idea where to look for the scratches. I suspect the holes have gotten some sharp edges worn on and may need a fine deburring. A small brass ball on a stem can reach in and just break the edge.

[FISH4BUGS]

Is some of the gas check getting hung on the lube holes in the sizing die? Maybe base first instead of nose first?
I always thought the Star sizer was nose first. been doing it that way for many years.
I have never tried it base first.

[jsizemore]

They'll go both ways. I do nose first too. I had a die act up without the gas check. Some polishing compound took care of it. I like country gent's idea of deburring.

[FISH4BUGS]

Run several bullets thru with an orientation mark this will give you an idea where to look for the scratches. I suspect the holes have gotten some sharp edges worn on and may need a fine deburring. A small brass ball on a stem can reach in and just break the edge.
Can you elaborate a bit? My thought is that the brass ball will have to be .429" since the sizer die is .430".
OR....just a brass ball and rub it back and forth, even if it is smaller?
I guess I can't visualize what you are saying.
I am going to run out and buy a 50 cal brass bore brush, load it Hoppe's #9 and run it for five minutes in the drill.
if THAT doesn't do it, i am at a dead end.

[BK7saum]

Can you elaborate a bit? My thought is that the brass ball will have to be .429" since the sizer die is .430".
OR....just a brass ball and rub it back and forth, even if it is smaller?
I guess I can't visualize what you are saying.
I am going to run out and buy a 50 cal brass bore brush, load it Hoppe's #9 and run it for five minutes in the drill.
if THAT doesn't do it, i am at a dead end.
A "small" brass ball on a stem, about BB size to reach in from the end of the die to break the edge on the lube holes.

[Bazoo]

I get slight scratches on my bullets when sized in my Lyman 450. I'm watching with interest as I would like to remedy this. It's not a "problem", but if I could fiddle with the die and alleviate the issue, then I would.

You can see them in this picture pretty good.

https://cdn.bulletmatch.com/n7mo64zw2uzsvfb0pnlb8l8oi1l1 (https://bulletmatch.com/bullets/rcbs-44-250-k-82080)

[country gent]

The brass ball dosnt need to be actual sizing die dia, just bigger than the lube holes the stem needs to be long enough to hold on to and reach the holes.

You coat the ball with some polishing compound and reach in and just work the edge of the hole removing burrs and putting a light chamfer on the edge. This is an operation that takes some finesse so go slow and careful.

After sizing a few with orientation marks if the marks line up with the holes this is whats probably needed.

Here your not working the actual die just the edges of the lube holes to smooth and break sharp edges. You want the ball big enough to not drop in but small enough to be able to work the edge and get it in and out easy. Im just guessing here but around 3/16" maybe.

[jsizemore]

When I block a set of holes on a star sizing die, I dig through some lead bird shot and find some of the smallest pieces. I use a brass hammer to get one in position so a little is hanging clear of the die body so I can get it out next time. The ball on the end of the brass tip needs to be at least the diameter of a #8 shot. The lube hole on the inside of the die is even smaller.

[Bazoo]

Thanks for this discussion.

Thanks for sharing these tips countrygent. I assume steel will work without an issue? I could epoxy a BB onto a dowel rod, and of course, I have a light touch.

[FISH4BUGS]

To all: I bought a 410 ga bronze cleaning brush and spun it in a drill for a couple of minutes with some Hoppes #9.
I sized a few, and while it improved, it did not get rid of the marks totally. I will spin it longer tonight, but this time I will wrap some copper chore boy around the brush and go at it again.
That helps remove lead in a barrel, so logically it will help remove little particles of lead in the sizer die lube holes.
I think the scratches are due to some left over lead from the shot in the lube holes when I removed them to fit the bullet with a gas check.
I will try again tonight.
I have 2000 of these to do and I want them done right.

[country gent]

I prefer a brass ball or lead. believe it or not steel with the polishing compound cuts slower. It dosnt impregnate like the brass or lead does.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Some times a boolit size die comes "new" that isn't polished to my standard. I have polished a few. I use denin wrapped around a dowel and Flitz or other polishing compound...sometimes I add a little oil to the cloth. I may or may not use a battery drill.

[Bazoo]

I have some 30 caliber round balls (I have a mould). If lead will work, we are in business. Should be a fun project, and interesting to see if it improves anything. Heck I guess I should even consider an accuracy test, to see if the scratches makes any difference, meaningful, measurable, or otherwise, to accuracy.

[nvbirdman]

You, of course are aware that those scratches will be on the boolit forever, or untill you pull the trigger. Whichever comes first.

[Charliemac]

Personally I don’t think it matters on the target. But good looking boolits are nice.

[jsizemore]

They look terrible after they've been sent downrange.....quickly.

[FISH4BUGS]

Personally I don’t think it matters on the target. But good looking boolits are nice.

I shot well over 1000 45 acp cast that looked just the same with the scratches on the drive bands.
No ill effects.
I just hate the way they look.
I'm sure that thousands of dollars of therapy will get me past that. :)

[FISH4BUGS]

Well here are the results: I wrapped a 410 ga brass cleaning brush with Chore Boy strands of copper, gave it a squirt of WD40 and spun it in the sizer die for 5 minutes, stopping to oil it a few times.
Result? almost good.
I am a perfectionist when it comes to my casting and reloading, but I am also a pragmatist. It is, yes....good enough.
I would suggest that if I didn't say anything, you wouldn't notice the small lines....but they bother me to be there.
I am sure they will be fine in the full house 44 mag loads. I use 296 powder. Great muzzle flash too, but uber accurate.
Nice 200gr 44 bullet that lets you hot rod the 44 without breaking your wrist.
My kind of bullet.
Many thanks to all the suggestions.

[kevin c]

Not the same problem but I had very stubborn galling on a brass sizing carbide ring. It took diamond paste on an oversized bore pellet spun VERY BRIEFLY on an electric drill to remove, and a second application of a finer grit paste to polish the matte surface to a mirror finish without any hogging out (as determined by the diameter of subsequently sized brass).

[WashingMike]

Well I think I had a similar issue but I discovered “How to hone a size die” by Buckshot here. https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?28989-Honing-out-a-sizing-die

At the end it talked about using 400 grit wet\dry wrapped around a metal rod with plenty of oil and a piece of cloth stapled to a board. You roll it back and forth pressing down and holding either end of the rod. I found that it really polished up the inside of the die if you did it carefully. It got rid of all the sizing marks on my boolits. I did both Star and regular lyman sizing dies that were in need.

WashingMike

[Kennibear]

You can get wet/dry sandpaper in VERY fine grits. I have 5000 grit (not a miss print, five thousand) and it is blue colored. I use it to polish epoxy that my wife casts and the epoxy is clear when done. Steel shines like a mirror. Usually I start no more coarse than 400 for really bad scratches and progress through 800, 2000 and then 5000. I use a wood dowel smaller than the hole and split with a saw to feed the paper in. I use a drill first but finish each grit by hand, going back and forth while rotating the hole. Any oil will work but I have five gallon pails of inactive sulfur and active sulfur cutting fluid so why not! Leaves a mirror shine and those scratches are not deep enough to materially change the sizing diameter.
Besides, larger diameter rarely hurts the group size.

KB


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[dondiego]

You can get wet/dry sandpaper in VERY fine grits. I have 5000 grit (not a miss print, five thousand) and it is blue colored. I use it to polish epoxy that my wife casts and the epoxy is clear when done. Steel shines like a mirror. Usually I start no more coarse than 400 for really bad scratches and progress through 800, 2000 and then 5000. I use a wood dowel smaller than the hole and split with a saw to feed the paper in. I use a drill first but finish each grit by hand, going back and forth while rotating the hole. Any oil will work but I have five gallon pails of inactive sulfur and active sulfur cutting fluid so why not! Leaves a mirror shine and those scratches are not deep enough to materially change the sizing diameter.
Besides, larger diameter rarely hurts the group size.

KB


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Could I use that 5000 grit to polish the lenses of my scratched, old, polarized, sunglasses?

[country gent]

You can but if they are prescription lenses polishing changing the shape will change the prescription slightly. It will also remove or lighten the polarizing. A fine polishing paste on a cotton ball might be better. Also any polishing will lower the "safety" of them.

[dondiego]

You can but if they are prescription lenses polishing changing the shape will change the prescription slightly. It will also remove or lighten the polarizing. A fine polishing paste on a cotton ball might be better. Also any polishing will lower the "safety" of them.

5000 grit shouldn't change the script too much!

[Kennibear]

Yes it will. Unless you are good at it, it will add astigmatism. The 5000 will be clear but not optically clear. I finish with Turtle Wax Polishing Compound. Polishing not Rubbing compound. Your question is facetious me thinks.
But, on a lighter note, a 3" disk w/5000 grit is a good first pass on crazed headlamp covers followed by a foam polishing pad with Polishing Compound to finish the job. Use water or 50/50 water alcohol to keep the plastic wet while using 5000. You don't have to cut all the way down through the deeper scratches, you stop at about 90-95% gone.

KB

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[country gent]

I have polished lenses on old equipment with electric tooth brush ( the older one with the spinning head) and the ultra fine compounds. It works but can cause parallax and distortion.