30/30 rules and forum warning

[coryj]

Posting here in the FAQ section because I'm not sure where this best fits, but was hoping for some meaningful discussion and feedback/clarification.

I recently got a warning for posting in the classified section because I don't have 30 meaningful posts and 30 days of being a member.

The moderator that gave me the warning said I'm not allowed to post in the classifieds section, despite being a member since 2010 and the rule he sent me a link to was implemented in 2018.

I had a colleague here at work join the forum moments ago and after joining he attempted to post in the classifieds and his classified section did not have the "Post new thread" button. I had him email me a screenshot of his account and I added a screen shot of my classifieds section which clearly has the "post new thread" button enabled.

On the left is a screenshot of a brand new forum member beside it on the right is my screenshot. It would appear I am grandfathered in to the classified section and the rule doesn't apply.

325171

[coryj]

To be clear, the reason I only have 7 posts since 2010 is that I use the search function. Most of the topics I have a question about have been asked and answered repeatedly. Plus there are many on this forum way more knowledgeable than I am so I defer to their expertise. In short, I read way more than I post.

[fiberoptik]

Not a bad thing.

[Winger Ed.]

The 30/30 rule in S&S is to help protect members from scammers, and people using the site as a free/no-fee ebay.
The rules for the site are like a big rock down by the river: Easy to find, and hard to move.

Also, they are strictly enforced.

[Half Dog]

As time goes on and I hear new ways scammers take advantage of people, I wish the rules would also evolve to something like a 60/60 rule. No offense intended but I appreciate the rule and the ones who enforce it.

[BoBSavage]

It is best to not post anything for sale on this forum.

[45workhorse]

It is best to not post anything for sale on this forum.

Well, Sir i disagree!
I have found some things on hear for sale that I would be hard pressed to find any place else. Not saying I couldn't find them.....

Plus, I have found good deals on boolit molds.

But, that is what makes this site so good, the moderators do a good job, and the users of this site ain't bad either!

[elmacgyver0]

It is best to not post anything for sale on this forum.

Why is that?

[BoBSavage]

Well, Sir i disagree!
I have found some things on hear for sale that I would be hard pressed to find any place else. Not saying I couldn't find them.....

Plus, I have found good deals on boolit molds.

But, that is what makes this site so good, the moderators do a good job, and the users of this site ain't bad either!

Then we will agree to disagree! The guy has been here 13 years.....at least I meet the 60/60? ;-)

[floydboy]

I agree with 45workhorse. The S&S site is usually the first thing I check when logging on. The items for sale on here are more pertinent to my hobbies than other sites. The prices are usually more reasonable and I trust the buyers way more than anywhere else. I have yet to get taken on a purchase. I try to do the same for my buyers. I guess the 30/30 rule is working pretty good.

I to do way more reading than posting and I want to thank the members for that. Knowledgable bunch of guys on here. I like to consider myself an accomplished cast boolit reloader and the people on this site are to be thanked for that.

Thanks, Floyd

[smorin2]

I too frequent the S&S sub forum and have sold and purchased items many times and have had no troubles.

[Hannibal]

It is best to not post anything for sale on this forum.

I tend to agree with this.

[Hannibal]

Why is that?

Kinda like many things in life. Quickest way to get yourself in trouble. Apart from being a general pain in the rear, that is.

I try to avoid both.

[725]

Wow. It is very easy and reasonable to obey these rules. What is all the hubbub?

[hoodat]

I'm not a big buyer or seller on this or other forums, but I have had great luck and enjoyment every time I did. I love being able to see that the person I'm doing business with is a member in good standing, is a real person, and has complimentary response from past sales and purchases.

The rules are for a reason, they are very reasonable, and easy to abide by. jd

[dverna]

IMO the 30/30 rule is fair.

In my experience, I have had better results selling on eBay or GunBroker. I have sold a lot of stuff in the last few years.

This a good place for a buyer. There are a lot of older members wanting to move stuff as they downsize.

[rgsumpter]

I am like the op in that I read a lot more than I post. I had to go and look at the # of posts that I have and before this one it is at 28 although I do have a lot more than the 30 days as a member. I guess 1 more and I will be able to sell if I would like to.:)

[ddeck22]

Other forums have similar rules to avoid scammers and the like. I have seen other sites only allow S&S type postings to paid members. I pay for this site since it is such a good resource and I want to support it.

I sell items on here since it is a good community of people.

[35 Rem]

Being a black hole of consumption myself, selling never enters my mind, but I have bought a good number of items from this site and appreciate the rules and restrictions to keep scammers away. Maybe there should be a change though for people who post very little yet have been members for multiple years. On the other hand, it doesn't take that much effort to participate enough to post 30 times. It demonstrates a genuine interest in the hobby that a scammer wouldn't have.

[MrWolf]

Being a black hole of consumption myself, selling never enters my mind, but I have bought a good number of items from this site and appreciate the rules and restrictions to keep scammers away. Maybe there should be a change though for people who post very little yet have been members for multiple years. On the other hand, it doesn't take that much effort to participate enough to post 30 times. It demonstrates a genuine interest in the hobby that a scammer wouldn't have.

I was gonna say almost the same things. It is not hard to reach 30 meaningful posts. I personally don't like the ones that go back and resurrect a several year old thread to basically say "I agree" with a few additional words to get a post count. Everyone in this hobby will have a question now and then or a way of doing something that may be slightly different than the "norm". Look at powder coating or golden/crimson powders. Folks are pretty smart in these parts.

[steve urquell]

I moderated on 2 forums and the buy and sell forums were always the most involved part of it. Scammers always trying to skirt the rules and some users only wanting to be a member of the forum to use it like Craigslist.

One of the developers who worked for the owner explained it to me like this:
Forums cost money to run. That is paid for by membership fees as well as ad revenue. If members post good content the advertisers pay.

So a non-paying member pays their way by posting quality content. Someone who is only here to post the minimum in order to use the S&S forum is not helping the forum at all, just using it for their personal gain.

[braddock]

Rules is rules, they are the same for everyone why bitch about it?

[sundog]

... In short, I read way more than I post.

A wise old owl lived in an oak,
The more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke, the more he heard,
Now, wasn't he a wise old bird?

[Hannibal]

A wise old owl lived in an oak,
The more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke, the more he heard,
Now, wasn't he a wise old bird?

Excellent observation.

[country gent]

I have bought from members on here and always a good experience. I try to be helpful when I can. While I havent sold anything, I would rather see it go to friends here than set on a gun show table being resold. I think the swapping and selling section is good and agree with the 30-30 rule as far as posting, a buddy tried to post an Ill take it with not enough posts and couldnt. That Is a shame as buying is different than selling

[jss227]

A wise old owl lived in an oak,
The more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke, the more he heard,
Now, wasn't he a wise old bird?

Death and Taxes, Magnum, P.I.

[Winger Ed.]

a buddy tried to post an Ill take it with not enough posts and couldnt. That Is a shame as buying is different than selling

He should have been able to post. My first guess is he wasn't logged in.
If you're not logged in, you still see the same screens we do, but typing in a reply won't post.
The only restriction for someone under the 30/30 is listing a WTS ad.

They can even post WTBuy ads.
With them, the seller has the ability to not ship an item until he gets the money.
A member can possibly be scammed on a WTB transaction, but you have to work at it.

A few years ago, I had some unusual Weatherby brass for sale.
A guy joined, his one and only post was to claim and buy it.

[Sasquatch-1]

I was gonna say almost the same things. It is not hard to reach 30 meaningful posts. I personally don't like the ones that go back and resurrect a several year old thread to basically say "I agree" with a few additional words to get a post count. Everyone in this hobby will have a question now and then or a way of doing something that may be slightly different than the "norm". Look at powder coating or golden/crimson powders. Folks are pretty smart in these parts.

I have questioned this myself many times. "I agree" "That's really nice" "WOW, I really like that", things of that nature. Also, the guy who responds to every poster in a separate post and will have 3 or 4 post in a row. I know these are hard to control, so I have never said anything about them.

For S&S, I would go as far as saying maintain the 30/30 rule and add 3 to 5 additional post a month to keep current.

Personally, I have seen a couple of items that have interested me but did not buy because the seller had less than a couple hundred post and was too new on the forum.

[JimB..]

I find it most curious that they system rules allowed you to post an ad at all. It should be automated and infallible.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I find it most curious that they system rules allowed you to post an ad at all. It should be automated and infallible.

You piqued my curiosity, JimB. What do you mean?

DG

[Merc41]

Well let me see, 30 meaningful posts in 30 days, well I don't even qualify for that and I have been here for 18 years. I think this is my 55th post in that amount of time and I am fairly sure half of mine were not meaningful. Which drives us into another question what is "meaningful"? I guess that is at the discrepancy of the moderators. But I believe the OP said he had been a member since 2010, so I guess there is not grandfathering.

[Hannibal]

It appears that the OP only made 10 posts in 10 years.

It further appears that the OP made a big enough ruckus that he's no longer welcome here.

[Merc41]

I must have missed something, the man was banned for asking a simple question?

[jdgabbard]

No offense intended. But I would not ever buy anything from someone who has a low post count. If you haven't contributed to the community, it's hard to tell what type of gent I'd be doing business with. That isn't to say long time members couldn't also be a scammer or a cheat. But if they've been actively posting here for years chances are they're around to stay. And if they value that, they're not going to do anything that gets them booted.

[Hannibal]

I must have missed something, the man was banned for asking a simple question?

It's been my observation that these types of questions are best asked in private via PM instead of a public airing of the situation. We are all guests here and should behave accordingly. I suspect the situation escalated but it's none of my business.

[Winger Ed.]

The 'meaningful' requirement is to keep someone from running the meter up
just to be able to post WTS ads in S&S.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

No, no, no. No one gets banned for asking a question. The question was likely in the nature of a complaint following a problem. We often see this by those who have had a problem with the Forum's Rules. It is in the nature of an appeal by that individual to the general membership for moral support. In this case, it's quite likely that the ban came after this thread started as a result of an earlier problem. Such actions are not taken "spur of the moment" and are often considered by Staff for awhile before the hammer drops.

Long time members with low post counts aren't grandfathered in on anything. Someone who has been here 15 years and has 8 posts really isn't too interested in the Forum, and probably doesn't have that much to contribute. If their interest is now only in selling something we get the feeling of being "used", and will respond accordingly. Fair enough? WTS ads are interesting, sometimes entertaining, but of a secondary purpose to the Forum, the primary interest being the exchange of information and ideas on the subject of casting, reloading, shooting, etc.

What is meaningful? A contribution to the Forum's bank of knowledge. That doesn't mean that the post has to contain 5 years of intensive research. It could mean, just as an example, a post appearing in a thread about crimping cartridges when reloading, "I've found the roll crimp feature on my RCBS dies to be perfectly satisfactory." Or, in a thread about smokeless powder, "I prefer Bullseye when I can find it, but have found AA #5 to be a good substitute and more available." Of course, if you do have original research we're very glad to have you contribute it.

Such posts as, "That's really nice!", or "I agree!" are encouraging to the OP, but aren't what we're looking for. They are allowed, even encouraged to some extent, and I sometimes make them myself to express admiration of good craftsmanship. But they do not count as "meaningful". Posts in "The Pit" do not count for the 30/30 rule. In fact, they don't count at all. The Pit is a place to express opinions, with courtesy and within the bounds of decorum, but are not germane to the Forum's reason to exist.

In general, it seems that the membership is in favor of the 30/30 rule, desiring to get to know the new guy a bit before sending him any money. Usually scammers have very few or no posts. That's because they really aren't interested in the Forum's subject matter, just in scamming money. Very often we've gotten reports of scammers who joined the Forum and immediately sent a PM to a person who answered a WTS ad instructing them to send the payment to an address other than that of the seller. Unfortunately, it has sometimes happened, and there is seldom any recourse to recovery of the funds. A non-member can read the ads, select a target, and then join specifically to scam.

Further questions?

DG

[ShooterAZ]

DG summed it up nicely. If anyone has any further questions regarding the 30/30 rule, please feel free to reach out to one of the moderators.