Dead soft 9MM

[Cris T]

Hi folks,
I recently finished the dies and molds for making 9mm. I am currently about to experiment with 136gn dead soft, swaged. then powdercoated, then swaged again bullets. When swaged after powdercoating the finish gets PRETTY DARN HARD, seemingly much harder than just powdercoating.
But I am still a little concerned about the softness of the lead that I am using.
Any input is appreciated.
I am eventually going to post a video of how I make them.

[Lakehouse2012]

Very interesting thoughts.

1) How are you confirming the PC gets harder from another swage?

From all my experience, swagging is only ever going to press foreign matter out of the lead, it won't get any harder from multiple hits. I'd like you to explain more where you're coming from please.

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk

[Dusty Bannister]

Perhaps he is thinking that lead does work harden, but then returns to the normal condition after a time has passed. Dead soft lead by hardness testing, or by source that might have some antimony in the alloy such as lead pipe, plumbing fittings and perhaps other sources?

[MT Gianni]

I believe he is talking about the powder coating. PC'ing allows you to shoot a softer bullet until you get to the point that it doesn't. Your barrel will let you know. 9mm is a high pressure cartridge. I would also want to know about what happens at impact and if the expansion is too rapid to penetrate. Do some milk jug or gallon container penetration or maybe tomato cans taped together and compare to a hard lead if you have some.

[Cris T]

I tested it to be 5 BHN.

[Cris T]

I believe he is talking about the powder coating. PC'ing allows you to shoot a softer bullet until you get to the point that it doesn't. Your barrel will let you know. 9mm is a high pressure cartridge. I would also want to know about what happens at impact and if the expansion is too rapid to penetrate. Do some milk jug or gallon container penetration or maybe tomato cans taped together and compare to a hard lead if you have some.

Yes I guess I'll just have to test it. I know that impact expansion is fabulous with soft powder coated bullets. Steve Blankard tested some of my 38 rimfire swaged and powdercoated soft bullets. Pulled from an earth berm they were very nicely expanded.
The problem I have is that my health is not good and I can't get to the range.

[mehavey]

Powder-coated pure lead can be pushed into the 25-35,000 psi regime with Ballard-rifled barrels
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?409893-Pure-Lead-amp-PC&p=5001471&viewfull=1#post5001471
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?446020-do-cast-357-boolits-expand-at-carbine-velocities-(1800-2100-fps)&p=5444942&viewfull=1#post5444942

Note that the 45-70 above was Rotometals pure lead and ran 25,000 psi, while the 357Mag was Rotometals 30:1 and ran 35,000.
Note also the 30:1 was (LAB* Tested) to actually be 29:1 (pretty darn good) and BHN 5.8-6.1) SOFT

9mm runs similar 30-35,000 psi but has much shallower rifling.

Me? I'd try it.
Size to .357 for loading.

(Heck... I may try it) ;-)




* AST Labs (https://atslab.com/) - Marietta, GA
30:1 Sample BHN 5.88 (Test 02/22/2024)
30:1 Sample Alloy 29:1 (Test 03/02/2024)

[Meatpuppet]

I notice you are swaging the projectile and then powdercoating. I have only tried it by powdercoating first and then swaging it. It works fantastic.

I have only tried it for 9mm as a proof of concept and it worked with acceptable accuracy using soft lead around 10bhn. However, for 9MM I find it a better use of my time to order already coated 9MM projectiles from IbejiHeads Bullets (or one of the dozen other manufacturers).

Powdercoating then swaging works great for all typed of shooting using soft lead. I currently Swage or "bump up" relatively soft powdercoated projectiles for 9mm, .357, 10MM, 44Mag & 45LC. I can drive .357 Maximum rounds to 2000 fps with good accurracy and no leading. I suspect that the soft lead / powdercoat combination can expand and seal the bore without needing a perfect bullet-to-bore size match. This has just been my opinion and I have no objective data to back it up. I simply have no leading at all anymore as long as the size is reasonably close.

[mehavey]

I usually think of "swaging" as force-fit of somewhat oversized gross lead wire into a projectile shape.
"Sizing" meaning projectile already formed/cast, and you're just refining the final diameter.

Unless an as-cast bullet is ridiculously oversize, however,
I concur with PC first, then final sizing.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hi folks,
I recently finished the dies and molds for making 9mm. I am currently about to experiment with 136gn dead soft, swaged. then powdercoated, then swaged again bullets. When swaged after powdercoating the finish gets PRETTY DARN HARD, seemingly much harder than just powdercoating.
But I am still a little concerned about the softness of the lead that I am using.
Any input is appreciated.
I am eventually going to post a video of how I make them.

what is your goal?



Yes I guess I'll just have to test it. I know that impact expansion is fabulous with soft powder coated bullets. Steve Blankard tested some of my 38 rimfire swaged and powdercoated soft bullets. Pulled from an earth berm they were very nicely expanded.
The problem I have is that my health is not good and I can't get to the range.

If you can't get to the range, I'd suggest going with something that is known to work. For 9mm luger, you'll want a alloy that is harder than pure lead. I use 94-3-3 and know it works. Maybe a scrap alloy with a BHN of 9 or 10 or 11 will work too, others have claimed so...it's nothing I wanted to try and test.
Good Luck.

[gwpercle]

Choot Em Cris ... Choot Em !

With a good powder coating they should be just fine ...
I wanted to shoot softish (8 bhn) 9mm Luger but I don't powder coat , so I got an NOE mould 124 gr. TC gas check design ... the gas check allows 1200 fps with no leading and the powder coating should also ...
... but you gonna have to choot em and see !
Gary

[fredj338]

Accuracy will vary with diff bbls but dead soft has never worked for me. I run range scrap equiv, 8-9bhn, PC, about 830fps. It shoots fine in various 9mm sized 0.357”. All you can do is try.
Sorry about your health but if you cany shoot at the range, what do you need the bullets for?

[mehavey]

Cast a dozen plain-base ACC 35-147B (https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-147B)'s this morning
Pure Lead
325029
(Believe it or not pure lead is lower than BHN 5)

PC'd with Eastwood Ford Light Blue/Lee-sized .357"
Sport Pistol 3.2gr/966fps (LBRDR using #2 Lyman)
FedSmPstl/1.065+ OAL

SIG P226
Snaked barrel 1X ahead of firing
Snaked 1X afterwards . . .
Spotless Bore

Accuracy nothing to write home about but good for 5" steel plates at 25 yrds

[fredj338]

Cast a dozen plain-base ACC 35-147B (https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-147B)'s this morning
Pure Lead
325029
(Believe it or not pure lead is lower than BHN 5)

PC'd with Eastwood Ford Light Blue
Sport Pistol 3.2gr/966fps (LBRDR using #2 Lyman)
FedSmPstl/1.065+ OAL

SIG P226
Snaked barrel 1X ahead of firing
Snaked 1X afterwards . . .
Spotless Bore

Accuracy nothing to write home about but good for 5" steel plates at 25 yrds
4.5BHN is about as low as it gets, so 5BHN, close enough.

[Charlie Horse]

Dead-soft Lee 100 grain flat nose boolits will catch and deform with some regularity on the feed ramp of my 380.
These kind:
325082

[reddog81]

Dead soft might be fine for light powder puff loads. However your typical 9mm bullets aren't going to cycle a gun at with low velocities unless you're running 147 or 158 grain bullets.

If you can't make it to the range to test them, how do you plan to see if they are accurate/cycle the gun?

[Cris T]

Thanks everyone for all the replies and suggestions. The reason I am trying to get all the bugs worked out without going to the range is because I want to get things as close to perfected before I go to the range. Our range opens in the middle of May. I want to have several loads worked up to test by then. If I find prohibiting problems before then, I can change things.
A couple of things I have found already:
I made up some dummy rounds to the size specs that I will use. They don't feed in my Norinco 213. Something on the feed ramp is gouging into the mouth of the case. This could be because the ogive is two narrow near the mouth and it won't deflect the carrier enough. I may have to change the profile of the bullet to correct this. But first I am going to try to modify the feed ramp.
Another thing I noticed that may become a problem is that the powder coat I'm using is not as hard as I had thought. So I'm going to try a different PC.
I think I am going to make up some harder bullets to have them to test.
Thanks again for the input.

[Meatpuppet]

I dont think any PC ever gets "hard" as you mean it. It bonds to the lead, encapsulating it and providing a lubricating surface to the bore. Essentially, it will take on the hardness of the lead it is bonded to. So if you are using soft lead, the PC will seem "soft". But that is no indication of how amazing it bonds to the lead (if properly applied).

Shoot 'em and see what happens.