Favored Bullet Weight in S&W .32-20 Revolvers

[DaveM]

This afternoon I won an auction for a pretty nice looking S&W Model 1905, 4th Change in .32-20, with a 4" barrel. The seller is local and I plan to pick it up tomorrow morning.

It's 1920s production, made after they started heat treating the cylinders. I am not planning to hot rod the gun but would like to load ammo in the 850 - 900 FPS range.

Powder-wise, I have Bullseye, Red Dot, Unique, HP-38, and Autocomp on hand. I've been reading past threads here and elsewhere on the Internet and I'm looking forward to experimenting with it, since I've wanted a .32-20 for awhile.

I have some Starline brass along with some bullets, both 96 grain RNFPs from Desperado Cowboy Bullets some and 120 RNFPs from Matt's Bullets. I don't have a suitable mold yet.

For those of you with this model, do you find that it shoots closer to point of aim with the ~100 grain or heavier 115 - 120 bullets, and at what distance?


As an aside, since Pennsylvania banned the use of centerfire calibers for small game hunting around 15 years ago, this will be restricted to target shooting and plinking. I could shoot varmints with it but that would be frowned upon in my subdivision, to put it mildly.

[Outpost75]

My S&W 4th change shoots to the fixed sights at 25 yards with the Accurate 31-105T and 3.5 grains of Bullseye for 850 fps from a 4-inch barrel.

For a heavier hunting I load 5 grains of AutoComp for 1000 fps with Hornady 100-grain XTP. This closely approximates pre-WW2 Rem-UMC loaded with Sharpshooter powder in the "Dogbone" logo box. Ok to substitute the 105- grain Accurate bullet.

324826

[DaveM]

Thanks Outpost75.

[shooting on a shoestring]

My 5” S&W 4th gets fed lots of Accurate 31-088W loaded base forward for a full meplat, over 3.5 grains Bullseye.

I like using the light wadcutter because I can shoot a lot for a little lead, it works great at the short distances I do most of my handgunning (25 yards and under), cuts nice holes in targets whether paper or varmint and just makes me happy.

I have used NOE 115 SWC. It worked fine. Also I’ve used Accurate 31-105C and 31-117E. They work good too.

Here’s mine with the 88gr WC and the 105 RF:
324876

[shooting on a shoestring]

Oh, I should mention I have the original stocks but prefer the VZ grips for shooting, so they stay on the pistol.

[Cast10]

My 1911 model 1905 3rd change 4” shoots 115gr to point of aim out to 12 yards, at least. I’m going to load 231 from 3.1 to 3.4 and chrony. Also when I start casting I’ll use an Accurate mold I am having made from Tom’s clone of the original 115gr Lyman 311316, with the lube rings removed, for powder coating.


324908

[rintinglen]

324934 Left to right, Lyman 311-316, MP 314-100HP, NEI 315-100, RCBS 32-98 WC, Saeco 321 95 grain RN, Lyman 311-008, RCBS 32-98 SWC.
I like the ~100 grain boolits for my revolvers, while the heavier Lyman boolits are used for the Browning 53. If I had to pick just one, it would be a toss-up between the NEI, the MP and the RCBS boolits. For loads, I like 3.5 grains of Bullseye, 3.8 grains of HP38, 3.3 grains of Red-Dot. In the Carbine I use Unique, but with the heavier, Lyman boolits. Do not use the Unique loads found in older manuals in the older revolvers, especially the pre 1919 S&W's with their non-heat treated cylinders. I have seen an old 4 inch with the cylinder wall dimpled under the cylinder stop slots, which makes for hard extraction. Serial number 81287 is the lowest numbered, factory, heat-treated 32-20.

[Green Frog]

If I restart loading for 32-20, I’ll probably start with the Ideal 3118 bullets which runs between 115&118 gr from my mould, loaded over a modest charge of Unique. The 95-105 gr bullets are also becoming popular, so I’d probably follow the lead of Outpost75 with a moderate load of Bullseye, for starters.
Froggie

[DaveM]

Awesome info, gents!

I picked it up this morning and for a century old gun it's in nice shape.

324944

The Pachmayr grip adapter was in my parts stash.

The timing and lockup are solid and there's no end shake to speak of. I need to get a new set of feeler gauges so I can measure b/c gap.

The inside of the action was clean. There was a little crud in the charge holes but they cleaned up easily. Likewise the bore had some crud and there's some very minor frosting but nothing that should prevent accurate shooting.

I can't wait to load up some ammo and take it shooting.

[WRideout]

That's a really nice looking revolver.

I don't have an S&W but I do have a Spanish copy that is in good shape. Generous members sent me a variety of boolits of different weights and styles. My gun likes heavier boolits sized around .312-.313. I finally settled on the 100 gr Lee 30 cal mold, which I Beagled to increase diameter. It also is more accurate with slower powder over Bullseye, Red Dot etc. SR 4756 has worked for me, as well as Accurate #5. Unique is good if you can find it.

You may have to try some different combinations in you revolver to see what it likes.

Wayne

[shooting on a shoestring]

Oh yes!
She’s a Beauty!
First, a tip of the hat to her previous Keepers. They did good. I’m hoping some day someone will say “I picked it up this morning and for a TWO century old gun it's in nice shape.” It can happen!

Second, yes there’s no need to “hot rod” as you said, but…you don’t have to baby it either. Don’t be bashful about letting it shoot like 32-20 because it is one!

Thanks for posting the pic. Hope you take her out!

[murf205]

That's a nice gun Dave, really nice. My 4th change likes 100gr Magnus boolits sized at .312 over Green Dot. I am hesitant to let anyone else shoot it because everyone wants to take it home with them!!:bigsmyl2:

[Wheelgun]

I’ve got several 32 molds. My most used are the Arsenal 313-115rf (RanchDog clone), and the Accurate 31-115S.

Other good ones are the NOE 315-118 Keith SWC, Arsenal 311008 (.315 125gr), Lee 311-93 1R.

In the S&W 4th change I had, the Lee did well powder coated, then ran through a .314 sizer, and crimped in the top lube groove, on top of Bullseye or TiteGroup. The RanchDog clone and NOE Keith did better with win231 or unique.

[gunther]

How do double action Colt's compare to S&W 32 20's for strength?

[rintinglen]

The Colt Army special has a bigger cylinder, ~1.54" to ~1.45" and the cylinder stop cut outs are off set slightly, so that they are not directly over the thinned part of the cylinder wall. The Police Positive Special's cylinder is smaller, ~1.38 inches, but again, the cylinder stop cut-outs are off set. I consider the Army (Official Police) Special guns stronger than the K-frame 32-20's, while the Police Positive Specials are about equal. The Colt Single Action Army guns are probably the strongest of the pre war 32-20's.

The fly in the ointment is that while we have good, documented information on when S&W began heat treating their cylinders and what serial number marks the beginning of the heat treated cylinder, the smaller colts do not have that information readily available. We know that the Colt 1909 revolvers were heat treated at the insistence of the government and that practice carried over into the rest of the New Century revolvers. But when were the D and E frames so treated? I have never seen an authoritative answer. By the 1920's, Colt was heat treating all their cylinders but when did they start? I cannot say.

[Tall]

For those of you with this model, do you find that it shoots closer to point of aim with the ~100 grain or heavier 115 - 120 bullets, and at what distance?


I have several revolvers chambered in 32 WCF. I get my bullets locally at Jerry's. He offers powder coated Keith style SWC's in 100 grain, 110 grain, and 120 grain weights. I loaded a few of each using varying charges of Unique at first. Basically I found that all of my revolvers liked the 100 grain bullets.

Try yours to see what it prefers. I switched to a load using W231 and the 100 grain bullets which you might try. You have several powders that will work.

[Outpost75]

How do double action Colt's compare to S&W 32 20's for strength?

The pre-WW2 Colt D-frames and non-heat treated pre-1929 Army Specials must be treated gently like the pre-1918 S&Ws.

An Official Police .32-20 or post-1920 Colt SA can handle heavier loads as would be suitable for later S&W 4th Change Hand Ejectors.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Outpost75, thanks for the info!

Tall, hey your Colt SAA above has an odd front sight on it. Also looks like a dovetailed rear in the top strap.
Mind posting a better pic or two?

[gc45]

Dont have your gun but do shoot matts boolits in my Colt Saa using Bullseye and 1680; both powders are accurate in the 32-20 case with 100 and 115 gr weights.

[gunther]

Rintinglen and Ed: Thanks for the information.

[Tall]

Outpost75, thanks for the info!

Tall, hey your Colt SAA above has an odd front sight on it. Also looks like a dovetailed rear in the top strap.
Mind posting a better pic or two?
It's an early flat top target. The gun was not listed in Colt records. The cylinder and barrel were replaced before I got it.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Tall,
Okkk…..
I remember bumping into you in another thread here somewhere and you had that Target SAA out for work.
Super cool gun.

DaveM,
Sorry for the thread drift.

[DaveM]

Tall,
...

DaveM,
Sorry for the thread drift.

It's all good!

[Kai]

I have a 6" 3rd change, a 4" 4th change, a 4" colt army special, and 5" colt saa. I also shoot winchester 92s, 73s, and a colt lightning. I cast a 120gr saeco 322 bullet. I load this over 3-3.5gr bullseye. Very accurate and the shorter nose functions in the winchesters.