First Cast Disaster

[vrod1023]

Hi guys...been a while since my first post. Been putting off my first cast until today and my fears were realised. No problem getting the lead melted...have a Pro 4 20. Tried heating up the mold on the edge of the pot and poured...no dice...lead just stiffened in mold and sprue would not budge one bit. Tried heating mold on my 2 plate stove and poured...same thing...had to put the mold in the pot so the lead could melt off and then had to clean it with brass brush. I'm ready to sell everything and buy factory bullets. Please help.:cry:

[pworley1]

Sorry for your troubles. What mold were you using. I would suggest that you find a single or double cavity mold and try again. Sometimes a six cavity mold takes a few pours to get up to the temperature needed for the sprue to cut easily. Don't give up.

[Iron369]

Hi guys...been a while since my first post. Been putting off my first cast until today and my fears were realised. No problem getting the lead melted...have a Pro 4 20. Tried heating up the mold on the edge of the pot and poured...no dice...lead just stiffened in mold and sprue would not budge one bit. Tried heating mold on my 2 plate stove and poured...same thing...had to put the mold in the pot so the lead could melt off and then had to clean it with brass brush. I'm ready to sell everything and buy factory bullets. Please help.:cry:

Ok.
Take a deep breath and calm down.
There’s no reason to be fearful of casting. There’s just a learning curve. Enjoy the process of learning and new skill.

Pictures of your situation would help with diagnosis.
It would also be helpful to know what mold, what temperature your lead is, and what you’re trying to cast. A video of your method would be ideal.

There’s a LOT of helpful people here that will get you cranking out quality projectiles in no time flat. If I can do it, anyone can.

[charlie b]

Most of us have been through this exact thing. Getting everything at the proper temps is not always straight forward.

It does sound like the melt is too cold. It takes a long time to get the lead up to temp, even after it looks nice and 'fluid'. On my cheap Lee pot I can tell when it is up to temp when I hear the heating element cycling on and off.

And do keep using the hot plate. I set it so the mold is a little warmer (for mine that means setting it on 3 or 4). It is easier to let it cool a little than start with it too cold.

New molds can be a bit frustrating. It takes me quite a few casts (50 or more) before a mold really starts to work well. I'll just sit and cast a bit, toss most of the bullets back in the pot and cast some more. This is also when I figure out how hot the mold likes to be. Cast faster until the bullets get really frosty, then slow down a bit.

[Wayne Smith]

Lazer thermometer will not be satisfactory. You need an immersion thermometer to get an accurate reading. "One try the lead went straight through the mold"? The mold has to be tightly closed to work satisfactorily. How many cavities in the mold? The more cavities the harder it is to get everything going well. I have several molds that I start filling two cavities, dump, fill three cavities, dump, fill four cavities, dump, and finally fill six cavities and the mold is up to temp and everything works - and this is using a hotplate to pre-heat the mold.

[Sasquatch-1]

Crank the pot all the way up. Let the lead melt completely and then some. If this is a two-cavity mold, set the mold on top of the lead for about thirty seconds. Eventually, your bullets should start coming out frosty. At this point you can start turning back the rheostat. My old lee 10 pound pot is run at about 2/3's to 3/4's of the way up on the rheostat. I guess that is around 7 or 8.

[RickinTN]

When the bullets start getting frosty it means the mold is too hot. Slow down and let the mold cool. No need to cool the melt in this situation.
Get an immersion thermometer. Start with your melt at around 740F and see what happens. There is a learning curve but the efforts are well worth it.
Good Luck,
Rick

[white eagle]

Sounds to me like all you need to do is knock the mold on the sprue plate to break the sprue free
I do that till the mold heats up and then just open with a gloved hand after that
once the mold heats up from casting it will be a lot easier
Keep at it

[Thumbcocker]

I have been casting since 1986. Do not own a thermometer or a hot plate. Here is my process. With the pot full of cood alloy, place 1/2 inch or so of clay based cat litter or oil dry on top to prevent oxidation. Place mold on top of the pot/ cat litter. Turn pot to maximum heat setting. Leave mold on pot for 1 hour. Start casting. Return sprues and reject boolits back to the pot. Keep pot topped off by adding ingots as the level drops. Do not touch the temperature setting unless the boolits get frosty or it takes a long time for the sprue to freeze. With the right casting speed and allowing the sprue to cool correctly and adding ingots you may not have to touch the temperature control.

[hermans]

Hi vrod1023. I am in Bredasdorp just across the mountain from you in the Overberg, if you want to talk send me a PM and I will forward you my cell number.
I am sure I can help you in addition to all the great advice given to you here by all these very accomplished boolit casters! Heat in especially the mold is your friend here, rather have them a little frosted that too cold and full of wrinkles and not properly filled out.

[2TM101]

Tried heating up the mold on the edge of the pot and poured...no dice...lead just stiffened in mold and sprue would not budge one bit.

Taking a wild guess here ....but..... good? I have to use a wooden mallet to get the sprue cutter to work. Its cutting through metal, you can't move it by hand and would burn yourself if you tried, even with leather gloves (ask me how I know).

I started casting only a few months ago so I remember all the newbie problems. If your mold is too cold it won't fill. No problem, throw it back into the pot and keep going until it is warm enough. If they are frosted looking the lead is too hot but for now you can still use those so just SLOWLY turn the heat down until that stops. Don't worry about making huge sprues either, those also just go back into the pot and there is no waste.

Also as has been said, use a one or two cavity mold until you figure it all out, six cavity molds are more difficult to use and I still get partially filled bullets out of them even now. But still, no waste.

And while you aren't there yet, you will find out that some bullet designs are made for tumble lubing, some for pan and some for powder coating. Hopefully you have a tumble lube bullet design as those are the easiest to do later, but even if you didn't get that kind you can still tumble lube anything and it will still work for now. You can refine things later. I'm still at the apprentice level of this myself, I have only cast about a dozen times (Though about a thousand bullets each time after the first couple)

[popper]

Fill one hole at a time (alternating) until the sprue/mold gets completely up to temp. Use a wood mallet/stick to 'break' the sprue until the mold is up to temp, then you can open by gloved hand. Keep the mallet handy. Keep the bottom of the plate and pin lubed - wipe off excess with dry rag.

[imashooter2]

I set my mold on the pot rim when I first plug in the pot. It stays there pre warming until the lead is up to temperature. All my Lee pots need to be somewhere around 7 on the dial to maintain 750 degree melt temperature.

[Barry54]

I will add that even when you are doing everything right, it’s normal to cast some rejects until the mold gets up to temperature and you get your pace going. Even then some mold designs are more difficult to cast. In my experience it’s easier to cast short fat ones than long skinny ones until you get some experience.

You probably stopped just before climax, when it was all about to start running right.

Lee precision is the major manufacturer of aluminum molds here. Please read the instructions for their aluminum molds, if you didn’t get good instructions with your mold.

https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/BM1206.pdf

[jdgabbard]

Looks like Hermans is close to you and willing to help give you some one on one advice. Take advantage of his offer, not all of us had the opportunity to learn from someone with experience, and had to figure it out on our own.

But, honestly, it's not really difficult once you get the hang of it. But there are a few things that I would suggest. I'm not familiar with bullet corp molds, but from what I was able to see online they appear to be similar in design to Lee molds, at least for the 6cav molds.

That said, if you're working with a 6 cavity, or even a smaller cavity mold, cutting the sprue can be difficult. And often requires the use of a hardwood mallet to strike the sprue open. Though from the one video I can find of that brand of molds it appears to have a sprue plate handle/lever like the Lees do. So opening with the handle would be the correct way if that is the type of mold you have. With that said, casting also requires a cadence. You want enough speed to keep the mold hot and in the right zone for good fillout, but not so hot that it is smearing lead across the top of the blocks or the sprue plate. You have to determine what casting speed this cadence is, and keep to it for consistent bullets.

I'm unsure if you are using 120v or 240v being in South Africa, but I would get the dial on the Lee Pot will probably affect what setting you need to set it at. In the US we have 120v, and I set mine on about 6.5-7. But whatever you set it at, having a lead thermometer helps. Regardless of whether or not you can get by without one. You'll want the temperature of your melt in the 700F/370C range, sometimes higher. But you shouldn't need to go over 800F/425C. The easiest way to determine all of this is to simply use a proper thermometer. They're not expensive, and will save you some headache. There are more fancy PID solutions with digital readouts, but this is unneeded. I don't use anything like that, and I have all the parts on hand to design one if I chose to. (Electronics is a hobby of mine).

Best advice I could give you, is to watch some videos on Youtube of someone actually casting. There are videos!

Here is a video with a "Lee Style" mold with the sprue handle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxpjBAUXAwE

And here is a video showing casting with a typical sprue plate type mold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce4jT-37Fec

Bottom line is this, keep at it. You'll figure it out. It just takes a little practice to figure out what you're doing. The first time I cast the result were not something I was at all proud of. But after another day or two of trying I had good results. And two decades later I'm still at it.

[vrod1023]

Lazer thermometer will not be satisfactory. You need an immersion thermometer to get an accurate reading. "One try the lead went straight through the mold"? The mold has to be tightly closed to work satisfactorily. How many cavities in the mold? The more cavities the harder it is to get everything going well. I have several molds that I start filling two cavities, dump, fill three cavities, dump, fill four cavities, dump, and finally fill six cavities and the mold is up to temp and everything works - and this is using a hotplate to pre-heat the mold.

Thanks Wayne! It's a 6 cavity. Will definitely try what you suggested.

[ascast]

A small point I noticed - you mentioned the lead was running through the mold Do you have any splatter on the mold faces? That will hold them open. Clean that off. When you dump bullets from mold, do it over your table, not over the open melt. This will prevent any splash from getting on the mating surface.

Maybe your not having this problem, just thought I would mention it.
The gold color is typical of pure lead. Generally I find pure lead likes to be run a tad hotter than alloys, more so if casting a bullet with a lot of grease grooves or square cut groves. Put cat litter on top' or saw dust.
A round ball is way easier to cast prefect than a .30 cal, 200 grn Lovern Style with 8 grease grooves.
I don't use a mallet unless I have too. Too easy too warp the sprue cutter after a couple thousands casts. I use heavy MIG welding gloves.
All above stuff is good from the board.
keep[ us posted.

[TurnipEaterDown]

Two comments I didn't see anyone respond to:
(post 6) "...shows where I had two of the cavities filled and the bullets came out all crumbly and still attached to the left over lead." and
(post 7) "What does it mean when the top film becomes a gold colour? "

If I understand what you mean by bullets crumbling: The alloy is too hot, AND you are cutting the sprue too soon. Odd that this comes with "...still attached to left over lead..." If the Sprue (left over lead) is attached to the bullet when you have opened the mold - then the sprue was never cut when it was supposed to be. Rotating the sprue plate shears the small pillar of hardened lead when the bullet is ready to be dropped. The mold should never be opened w/o cutting the sprue.

Gold color on surface of melt: I remember this is oxidized tin. In any event, again too hot, and if my memory is good today and this is oxidized tin, you need to flux and get it back into the liquid metal. You want your tin in solution.

Does the top of your melt accumulate a significant amount of lumpy looking metal islands? This is also the "too hot" alloying elements coming out of solution by oxidation clue.

Gloves or easy tap w/ a mallet handle/stick. Either works to cut the sprue, but I take my baked potatoes out of the 425°F oven w/ my bare hands. (older, and unfeeling is my often used line to my kids...)

[gwpercle]

Use a thermometer to see how hot your alloy is . Don't get it too hot .

Be sure and Flux the melt .

You can heat the mould by simply casting boolits in it ... I do this and sit the mould on the edge of the pot while it gets the lead melted .
10 or 12 casts will heat the mould ... throw those boolits back in the pot.

Use a wood mallet or old hammer handle to strike the sprue and cut them ... a six cavity mould is going to be a bear to open with your hands and a wood mallet is going to need a whack or two to open .

A gold color film is usually an indication of high lead content and High Heat .. turn the heat down and flux the melt ...

Easier to learn casting with a 2 cavity mould but your's is a 6 cavity so you just got to deal with it .

The best way to learn how to cast boolits is to Cast Boolits !
Remelt the bad ones ... and ... Keep On Keepin On !
Gary

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Lots of good advice so far.
If you are gonna pre-heat the mold, which is a great idea, and have a way to measure the mold temperature, it should be around 375º F, which is 190º C
Good Luck.

[Bass Ackward]

You can answer your own question. Just be honest with yourself and your expectations. If you simply want a cheaper substitute bullet, just buy your bullets. Casting should be enjoyable or done to achieve performance and flexibility that you simply can’t buy.

The later creates a monster that changes your outlook to read, watch, or do ANYTHING to achieve it. If that ain’t you …. buy’em.

[405grain]

I agree with what the others have said about the temperature setting on a Lee Pro 4-20; you've got your temperature set too low. I turn the dial all the way up when melting the alloy, but once it's liquid I set the pot to 6.5 to 7 for casting. If the temperature is too low you'll have wrinkled bullets with poor fill out and rounded edges. If the temperature is too high (like ALL the way up) you'll start oxidizing the lead into a nasty tan/brown powder. Preheat the molds as other's have suggested, then do your casting with the pot set around 7. What alloy are you casting?

[Delkal]

One very rough way to estimate temperature is to flux your melt with wax. I you flux and keep stirring and all it does is smoke your temperature is too low. If you flux it and give it a quick stir or two and it ignites the lead is too hot. And, as Goldilocks said, if you flux and stir it some then it eventually lights it is just right.

[Dusty Bannister]

Please use SMALL amounts of candle wax because sometimes if too much wax is used, it will produce more fire than needed or wanted. And when it ignites, it will flash quickly. Bees wax has a higher ignition point, so keep that in mind if you decide to use this method.

do it outside until you see what is going to happen.

[Shanghai Jack]

So what's the cause of the bullet being "cumbly" as the original poster stated.

[dverna]

One thing not mentioned is alloy. IMO, bad alloy can give you fits. Are you using whatever stuff you scrounged or a good alloy?

[BJung]

I've read that the proper temperature for your lead alloy is to melt the lead in your pot, turn the thermostat down in increments, and watch until it begins to solidify. Measure the lead temperature. Your proper temperature should be 100 degrees Fahrenheit over that temperature. Personally, I just turn my Lee pot up to #7 and my casts are fine. I watch the lead flow from the bottom nipple. If it lows out fast like water, it's too hot.

If lead is flowing through your mold, it is not aligned. If you have a death grip your handles, doing so could warp your mold and the diameter would be uneven. Most likely it's an alignment problem. I use a Q-tip and dab the pins with 2 cycle motor oil. I also use a plastic mallet to align the two parts by tapping on the handle that attaches to the mold.

When I first started casting, I placed the edge of my 6-cavity mold into the molten lead. I'm impatient and starting using a propane torch to run the flame across the mold and on the handle area that attaches to the mold. The heat would transfer to the mold. Placing the mold to maintain temperature was awkward and I wouldn't lose heat from the mold compared to placing it on a piece of wood and definitely on a concrete floor. I discovered that a hot plate would heat the mold if I left it on the hotplate for awhile ( maybe 20 minutes? ). Now I heat my mold with a propane torch and might leave it on a hot plate before casting. Then, I pour 2-3 casts to further heat my 6-cavity up to temperature and I'm ready to go. Remember to twirl pour (I think that's what it's called) to maintain a more consistent bullet weight. You do this by turning your mold slightly on edge and allow the lead stream drop on the edge of your sprue plate and into the hole. Think of a liquid going into your toilet. Swirl it in and it mixes in evenly. Shoot it directly in and you'll get bubbles.

[vrod1023]

Sorry for your troubles. What mold were you using. I would suggest that you find a single or double cavity mold and try again. Sometimes a six cavity mold takes a few pours to get up to the temperature needed for the sprue to cut easily. Don't give up.

Thanks for responding. NLG mold made by Bulletcorp here locally. Will definitely look for a smaller mold. I thought I replied but didn't see my message in the trail. Will keep trying.

[vrod1023]

Ok.
Take a deep breath and calm down.
There’s no reason to be fearful of casting. There’s just a learning curve. Enjoy the process of learning and new skill.

Pictures of your situation would help with diagnosis.
It would also be helpful to know what mold, what temperature your lead is, and what you’re trying to cast. A video of your method would be ideal.

There’s a LOT of helpful people here that will get you cranking out quality projectiles in no time flat. If I can do it, anyone can.

Thank you for responding. Its an NLG mold made locally by Bulletcorp. It's for 9mm Luger. Don't know the temps because I have no thermometers coupled to the pot.I have tried several times now to add pictures but I get an error message but I will contact admin and see if they can assist.

[vrod1023]

Lazer thermometer will not be satisfactory. You need an immersion thermometer to get an accurate reading. "One try the lead went straight through the mold"? The mold has to be tightly closed to work satisfactorily. How many cavities in the mold? The more cavities the harder it is to get everything going well. I have several molds that I start filling two cavities, dump, fill three cavities, dump, fill four cavities, dump, and finally fill six cavities and the mold is up to temp and everything works - and this is using a hotplate to pre-heat the mold.

Thanks for your response. It is a 6 cavity but I guess I am taking on too much being a noob and take heed of the advice from some that I should perhaps try a 2 cavity and see if I'm able to get that going.:-D

[vrod1023]

Crank the pot all the way up. Let the lead melt completely and then some. If this is a two-cavity mold, set the mold on top of the lead for about thirty seconds. Eventually, your bullets should start coming out frosty. At this point you can start turning back the rheostat. My old lee 10 pound pot is run at about 2/3's to 3/4's of the way up on the rheostat. I guess that is around 7 or 8.

Thanks for your response. I have renewed hope.

[vrod1023]

When the bullets start getting frosty it means the mold is too hot. Slow down and let the mold cool. No need to cool the melt in this situation.
Get an immersion thermometer. Start with your melt at around 740F and see what happens. There is a learning curve but the efforts are well worth it.
Good Luck,
Rick

Thanks Rick, much appreciated :)

[vrod1023]

Sounds to me like all you need to do is knock the mold on the sprue plate to break the sprue free
I do that till the mold heats up and then just open with a gloved hand after that
once the mold heats up from casting it will be a lot easier
Keep at it

Thank you! Will give everything a go soon.

[john.k]

I got a cheap IR hand held thermometer ...and the first thing I discovered was I was casting 100deg too cold .........for 50 years .......not a big issue with 45s and 58s ,but it was difficult to cast small buillets like 25s ,and brass molds just didnt work ...........So with that settled ,I upped the heat ,and some things were better ,but actually some were worse.........because big bullets like 45x480gr hold a lot of heat ,and casting cold increases production.

[vrod1023]

I have been casting since 1986. Do not own a thermometer or a hot plate. Here is my process. With the pot full of cood alloy, place 1/2 inch or so of clay based cat litter or oil dry on top to prevent oxidation. Place mold on top of the pot/ cat litter. Turn pot to maximum heat setting. Leave mold on pot for 1 hour. Start casting. Return sprues and reject boolits back to the pot. Keep pot topped off by adding ingots as the level drops. Do not touch the temperature setting unless the boolits get frosty or it takes a long time for the sprue to freeze. With the right casting speed and allowing the sprue to cool correctly and adding ingots you may not have to touch the temperature control.

Thank you! Someone told me that I need to get my cadence right. I will keep trying.

[vrod1023]

Hi vrod1023. I am in Bredasdorp just across the mountain from you in the Overberg, if you want to talk send me a PM and I will forward you my cell number.
I am sure I can help you in addition to all the great advice given to you here by all these very accomplished boolit casters! Heat in especially the mold is your friend here, rather have them a little frosted that too cold and full of wrinkles and not properly filled out.

Thank you hermans. Great to have a fellow South African on here! Will PM you.

[vrod1023]

Taking a wild guess here ....but..... good? I have to use a wooden mallet to get the sprue cutter to work. Its cutting through metal, you can't move it by hand and would burn yourself if you tried, even with leather gloves (ask me how I know).

I started casting only a few months ago so I remember all the newbie problems. If your mold is too cold it won't fill. No problem, throw it back into the pot and keep going until it is warm enough. If they are frosted looking the lead is too hot but for now you can still use those so just SLOWLY turn the heat down until that stops. Don't worry about making huge sprues either, those also just go back into the pot and there is no waste.

Also as has been said, use a one or two cavity mold until you figure it all out, six cavity molds are more difficult to use and I still get partially filled bullets out of them even now. But still, no waste.

And while you aren't there yet, you will find out that some bullet designs are made for tumble lubing, some for pan and some for powder coating. Hopefully you have a tumble lube bullet design as those are the easiest to do later, but even if you didn't get that kind you can still tumble lube anything and it will still work for now. You can refine things later. I'm still at the apprentice level of this myself, I have only cast about a dozen times (Though about a thousand bullets each time after the first couple)

Thanks for your response! I should have at least added that I am trying to cast 9mm Luger boolits. Here is a link to the design of the bullet. All I know is that if I bought these boolits from the factory they would be powder coated. I am also planning to do my own powder coating by hand using the "bucket swirl" method. https://www.bulletcorp.co.za/BCBC-Bullets/9mmP/9mmP-Match-Pro-Hollow-Points-125gr-(QTY:250)

[vrod1023]

Fill one hole at a time (alternating) until the sprue/mold gets completely up to temp. Use a wood mallet/stick to 'break' the sprue until the mold is up to temp, then you can open by gloved hand. Keep the mallet handy. Keep the bottom of the plate and pin lubed - wipe off excess with dry rag.

Thank you! I have some anti seize that I was planning to use on the pins and some two-stroke oil to wipe the sprue plate and bottom of the plate with.:-)

[vrod1023]

I will add that even when you are doing everything right, it’s normal to cast some rejects until the mold gets up to temperature and you get your pace going. Even then some mold designs are more difficult to cast. In my experience it’s easier to cast short fat ones than long skinny ones until you get some experience.

You probably stopped just before climax, when it was all about to start running right.

Lee precision is the major manufacturer of aluminum molds here. Please read the instructions for their aluminum molds, if you didn’t get good instructions with your mold.

https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/BM1206.pdf

Thank you! LOL at "stopped before climax" hahaha. I think you're right on that one. Will keep at it. Appreciate the advice.

[vrod1023]

Looks like Hermans is close to you and willing to help give you some one on one advice. Take advantage of his offer, not all of us had the opportunity to learn from someone with experience, and had to figure it out on our own.

But, honestly, it's not really difficult once you get the hang of it. But there are a few things that I would suggest. I'm not familiar with bullet corp molds, but from what I was able to see online they appear to be similar in design to Lee molds, at least for the 6cav molds.

That said, if you're working with a 6 cavity, or even a smaller cavity mold, cutting the sprue can be difficult. And often requires the use of a hardwood mallet to strike the sprue open. Though from the one video I can find of that brand of molds it appears to have a sprue plate handle/lever like the Lees do. So opening with the handle would be the correct way if that is the type of mold you have. With that said, casting also requires a cadence. You want enough speed to keep the mold hot and in the right zone for good fillout, but not so hot that it is smearing lead across the top of the blocks or the sprue plate. You have to determine what casting speed this cadence is, and keep to it for consistent bullets.

I'm unsure if you are using 120v or 240v being in South Africa, but I would get the dial on the Lee Pot will probably affect what setting you need to set it at. In the US we have 120v, and I set mine on about 6.5-7. But whatever you set it at, having a lead thermometer helps. Regardless of whether or not you can get by without one. You'll want the temperature of your melt in the 700F/370C range, sometimes higher. But you shouldn't need to go over 800F/425C. The easiest way to determine all of this is to simply use a proper thermometer. They're not expensive, and will save you some headache. There are more fancy PID solutions with digital readouts, but this is unneeded. I don't use anything like that, and I have all the parts on hand to design one if I chose to. (Electronics is a hobby of mine).

Best advice I could give you, is to watch some videos on Youtube of someone actually casting. There are videos!

Here is a video with a "Lee Style" mold with the sprue handle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxpjBAUXAwE

And here is a video showing casting with a typical sprue plate type mold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce4jT-37Fec

Bottom line is this, keep at it. You'll figure it out. It just takes a little practice to figure out what you're doing. The first time I cast the result were not something I was at all proud of. But after another day or two of trying I had good results. And two decades later I'm still at it.

Thank you for your response! I will definitely contact hermans. The mold is a 6 cavity and we are using 220V here. Of what you have advised I like most the notion of cadence. I watched a few videos of elvisammo on Youtube and he made it look so easy. That's where I hope to end up one day. Thank you for the videos - the one with the sprue handle is exactly what I needed to see. Lots of info to digest and mull over but another important point you made is the fact that I need a thermometer. I need to weigh up the cost of the manual vs the electronic options as the shipping cost from the US will be more or less the same and there is a member on this forum who makes them for both 110V and 220V. Priced late last year was $125 shipped.

[vrod1023]

A small point I noticed - you mentioned the lead was running through the mold Do you have any splatter on the mold faces? That will hold them open. Clean that off. When you dump bullets from mold, do it over your table, not over the open melt. This will prevent any splash from getting on the mating surface.

Maybe your not having this problem, just thought I would mention it.
The gold color is typical of pure lead. Generally I find pure lead likes to be run a tad hotter than alloys, more so if casting a bullet with a lot of grease grooves or square cut groves. Put cat litter on top' or saw dust.
A round ball is way easier to cast prefect than a .30 cal, 200 grn Lovern Style with 8 grease grooves.
I don't use a mallet unless I have too. Too easy too warp the sprue cutter after a couple thousands casts. I use heavy MIG welding gloves.
All above stuff is good from the board.
keep[ us posted.

Thanks for your response. Do I just pour the cat litter over the molten lead? What does that do to the lead? I omitted to say that I am trying to cast for 9mm Luger. It is a hollow point bullet that I will powder coat when all is said and done. I think I was overly ambitious to start off with but I will stick with it lol. I am using some welding gloves and overalls, safety boots and eye protection. I will eventually move on from casting and don't want any nasty reminders haha. Appreciate the advice.

[vrod1023]

Two comments I didn't see anyone respond to:
(post 6) "...shows where I had two of the cavities filled and the bullets came out all crumbly and still attached to the left over lead." and
(post 7) "What does it mean when the top film becomes a gold colour? "

If I understand what you mean by bullets crumbling: The alloy is too hot, AND you are cutting the sprue too soon. Odd that this comes with "...still attached to left over lead..." If the Sprue (left over lead) is attached to the bullet when you have opened the mold - then the sprue was never cut when it was supposed to be. Rotating the sprue plate shears the small pillar of hardened lead when the bullet is ready to be dropped. The mold should never be opened w/o cutting the sprue.

Gold color on surface of melt: I remember this is oxidized tin. In any event, again too hot, and if my memory is good today and this is oxidized tin, you need to flux and get it back into the liquid metal. You want your tin in solution.

Does the top of your melt accumulate a significant amount of lumpy looking metal islands? This is also the "too hot" alloying elements coming out of solution by oxidation clue.

Gloves or easy tap w/ a mallet handle/stick. Either works to cut the sprue, but I take my baked potatoes out of the 425°F oven w/ my bare hands. (older, and unfeeling is my often used line to my kids...)

Hey there and thanks for the response on those two issues. Yes they concerned me quite a bit. I do not want to be losing the tin because I think it will affect the hardness? As others have alluded to on the board I am having some real temperature control issues and until I get a thermometer I will just be shooting in the dark. I hope to have that problem addressed relatively soon. I have ordered what looked to be like a wooden mallet but this is South Africa, anything's possible haha. I haven't been able to add any pics because the system won't let me. I tried fluxing with some candle wax and all I got was smoke everywhere and an oily film over the surface of the lead which eventually burnt off. It was normal paraffin wax.

[vrod1023]

Use a thermometer to see how hot your alloy is . Don't get it too hot .

Be sure and Flux the melt .

You can heat the mould by simply casting boolits in it ... I do this and sit the mould on the edge of the pot while it gets the lead melted .
10 or 12 casts will heat the mould ... throw those boolits back in the pot.

Use a wood mallet or old hammer handle to strike the sprue and cut them ... a six cavity mould is going to be a bear to open with your hands and a wood mallet is going to need a whack or two to open .

A gold color film is usually an indication of high lead content and High Heat .. turn the heat down and flux the melt ...

Easier to learn casting with a 2 cavity mould but your's is a 6 cavity so you just got to deal with it .

The best way to learn how to cast boolits is to Cast Boolits !
Remelt the bad ones ... and ... Keep On Keepin On !
Gary

Thanks Gary! As someone said here on the board I need to learn cadence i.e. get into a rhythm. But my core issue is no way to measure temps. So I will work on that. And get fluxing right which I've learnt now that when I fluxed the lead wasn't hot enough. I've also decided to get a 2 cavity until I've gotten good at this. Thanks for the extra motivation!

[vrod1023]

Lots of good advice so far.
If you are gonna pre-heat the mold, which is a great idea, and have a way to measure the mold temperature, it should be around 375º F, which is 190º C
Good Luck.

Thank you!

[vrod1023]

You can answer your own question. Just be honest with yourself and your expectations. If you simply want a cheaper substitute bullet, just buy your bullets. Casting should be enjoyable or done to achieve performance and flexibility that you simply can’t buy.

The later creates a monster that changes your outlook to read, watch, or do ANYTHING to achieve it. If that ain’t you …. buy’em.

Great advice! I will do just that! Life's too short.

[vrod1023]

I agree with what the others have said about the temperature setting on a Lee Pro 4-20; you've got your temperature set too low. I turn the dial all the way up when melting the alloy, but once it's liquid I set the pot to 6.5 to 7 for casting. If the temperature is too low you'll have wrinkled bullets with poor fill out and rounded edges. If the temperature is too high (like ALL the way up) you'll start oxidizing the lead into a nasty tan/brown powder. Preheat the molds as other's have suggested, then do your casting with the pot set around 7. What alloy are you casting?

I do not know anything about the alloy other than I was told that it was already mixed for casting boolits i.e. lead with antimony and tin. I've bought some wheel weights from a local supplier so I think I will melt those once I've been able to cast this batch. I don't know what their alloy is either but I did the side cutter and hammer test and both passed so I'm praying they're lead.

[vrod1023]

One very rough way to estimate temperature is to flux your melt with wax. I you flux and keep stirring and all it does is smoke your temperature is too low. If you flux it and give it a quick stir or two and it ignites the lead is too hot. And, as Goldilocks said, if you flux and stir it some then it eventually lights it is just right.

Thank you sir! I will go with Goldilocks :p

[vrod1023]

Please use SMALL amounts of candle wax because sometimes if too much wax is used, it will produce more fire than needed or wanted. And when it ignites, it will flash quickly. Bees wax has a higher ignition point, so keep that in mind if you decide to use this method.

do it outside until you see what is going to happen.

Thanks Dusty. I live in a townhouse complex with a really nosey 80+year old neighbor so unfortunately can't do it outside or I will face the Spanish Inquisition hahaha.

[vrod1023]

One thing not mentioned is alloy. IMO, bad alloy can give you fits. Are you using whatever stuff you scrounged or a good alloy?

Unfortunately I know absolutely nothing about the composition of the alloy.

[vrod1023]

I've read that the proper temperature for your lead alloy is to melt the lead in your pot, turn the thermostat down in increments, and watch until it begins to solidify. Measure the lead temperature. Your proper temperature should be 100 degrees Fahrenheit over that temperature. Personally, I just turn my Lee pot up to #7 and my casts are fine. I watch the lead flow from the bottom nipple. If it lows out fast like water, it's too hot.

If lead is flowing through your mold, it is not aligned. If you have a death grip your handles, doing so could warp your mold and the diameter would be uneven. Most likely it's an alignment problem. I use a Q-tip and dab the pins with 2 cycle motor oil. I also use a plastic mallet to align the two parts by tapping on the handle that attaches to the mold.

When I first started casting, I placed the edge of my 6-cavity mold into the molten lead. I'm impatient and starting using a propane torch to run the flame across the mold and on the handle area that attaches to the mold. The heat would transfer to the mold. Placing the mold to maintain temperature was awkward and I wouldn't lose heat from the mold compared to placing it on a piece of wood and definitely on a concrete floor. I discovered that a hot plate would heat the mold if I left it on the hotplate for awhile ( maybe 20 minutes? ). Now I heat my mold with a propane torch and might leave it on a hot plate before casting. Then, I pour 2-3 casts to further heat my 6-cavity up to temperature and I'm ready to go. Remember to twirl pour (I think that's what it's called) to maintain a more consistent bullet weight. You do this by turning your mold slightly on edge and allow the lead stream drop on the edge of your sprue plate and into the hole. Think of a liquid going into your toilet. Swirl it in and it mixes in evenly. Shoot it directly in and you'll get bubbles.

Great advice! I noticed that the mould when placed under the spout needed to be tilted to be straight up. So perhaps the tilt was designed so that I could do the twirl thing you mentioned? At any rate, I will try it!

[john.k]

The beauty of casting bullets is all the fails go back into the pot .

[mehavey]

First . . Please... just get a lead thermometer.
Don't try to do anything by eyeball, by guess-and-by-golly, or by number on the dial.
You'll drive yourself nuts -- no matter what others might say.
(700-800 degrees The lower number for Lyman#2/hard alloys, the higher for nearer
pure lead/soft alloys)

Second, get/use a covered hotplate for prewarming the mould while the lead is melting
(On that one, you can set the dial sorta in the middle)
See: https://s15.postimg.cc/n7t2rmxtn/Hotplate.jpg

Third, no matter even pre-warmed mould, the first half-dozen casts will require a wood or
rawhide hammer to be used to open the sprue plate. (Just make sure to whack things
absolutely flat/in line with the mould's top surface so not to bend anything over time.)

Fourth, even when up to temperature, aluminum loses heat quickly, and so requires you
to cast fairly fast to keep it up to that temp.

All this sounds complex -- but a couple of sessions and its like riding a bicycle. :bigsmyl2:

[Barry54]

Thanks for your response. Do I just pour the cat litter over the molten lead? What does that do to the lead? I omitted to say that I am trying to cast for 9mm Luger. It is a hollow point bullet that I will powder coat when all is said and done. I think I was overly ambitious to start off with but I will stick with it lol. I am using some welding gloves and overalls, safety boots and eye protection. I will eventually move on from casting and don't want any nasty reminders haha. Appreciate the advice.

“It is a hollow point”

Woah, you are starting off at expert level! That would have been good to know.

Yeah. You likely will need help from your neighbor across the mountain. Maybe start off with one of his single or double cavity molds so you can get the hang of it before attempting your hollow point mold.

9mm and larger pistol boolets are good ones to learn with. 7mm and smaller rifle boolets will be something to learn as well.

Then hollow points. That’s a chapter near the back of the book somewhere.

[vrod1023]

“It is a hollow point”

Woah, you are starting off at expert level! That would have been good to know.

Yeah. You likely will need help from a your neighbor across the mountain. Maybe start off with one of his single or double cavity molds so you can get ithe hang of it before attempting your hollow point mold.Wow I didn't realise that but I'm taking your advice. Literally just bought a 2 cavity Lee mold for R710...about $38.

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[vrod1023]

The beauty of casting bullets is all the fails go back into the pot .That is true! I just need to chill.

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[WRideout]

Thank you for responding. Its an NLG mold made locally by Bulletcorp. It's for 9mm Luger. Don't know the temps because I have no thermometers coupled to the pot.I have tried several times now to add pictures but I get an error message but I will contact admin and see if they can assist.

I had trouble posting pictures until I started editing them before posting, to reduce the size of the photo, and file.
Wayne

[vrod1023]

First . . Please... just get a lead thermometer.
Don't try to do anything by eyeball, by guess-and-by-golly, or by number on the dial.
You'll drive yourself nuts -- no matter what others might say.
(700-800 degrees The lower number for Lyman#2/hard alloys, the higher for nearer
pure lead/soft alloys)

Second, get/use a covered hotplate for prewarming the mould while the lead is melting
(On that one, you can set the dial sorta in the middle)
See: https://s15.postimg.cc/n7t2rmxtn/Hotplate.jpg

Third, no matter even pre-warmed mould, the first half-dozen casts will require a wood or
rawhide hammer to be used to open the sprue plate. (Just make sure to whack things
absolutely flat/in line with the mould's top surface so not to bend anything over time.)

Fourth, even when up to temperature, aluminum loses heat quickly, and so requires you
to cast fairly fast to keep it up to that temp.

All this sounds complex -- but a couple of sessions and its like riding a bicycle. :bigsmyl2:Thanks for the response and pic. Tried posting pics earlier but wouldn't let me. Here goes another try. This is what my smoked mold looks like after the 2 failed attempts.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240321/4fbb0430ed48cdb502f52b8cd375e023.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240321/4af75ebb8eb470db99f150ea3a832f5d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240321/7b59d74bb8eaedc65719ea95bf8711d2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240321/f49b4b9716e658968c330454122562b9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240321/0a8729f75f85345f61849cee2cbe3d39.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240321/8487392b78f6aca30df9a75e535f63d8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240321/6129d07f35ec20a8acf936de88fefac9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240321/eb6fe5da2b37936694f3974dc119df9a.jpg

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[mehavey]

Lyman digital thermometer available on Amazon.
Is it any good?I run three lead pots (three different alloys)
I have a Lyman thermometer in each of them (never taken out :razz: )

They are an excellent/relatively low-cost solution to known/consistent temp.

[mnewcomb59]

Hey buddy you got that mold pretty messed up with lead splatter. One time I nearly ruined a mold (I thought at the time) when I fumbled a cold 2 cavity mold and dropped it in the lead pot. It came out looking about like yours.

The first thing is DON'T USE A BRASS BRUSH! It will scratch your aluminum. If you scratch or dent the edges of a bullet cavity your bullets will stick horribly and you will have to beat the mold to make the bullets fall out.

You need to get that mold smoking hot. How do you know if it is smoking? COVER it in synthetic 2 stroke oil, maybe dunk it, then float it on top of the lead until you see smoke on the whole mold including the sprue plate. Once it is smoking hot, get some gloves and a cotton cloth and wipe it really hard. Push down hard as you wipe and the oil steam and warmth will let the lead slide off. Where there is lead in your air vent channels you will need to use a toothpick to scratch and scrape it out.

It looks like you have lead stuck on the bottom of your sprue plate. You need to keep the bottom clean because the build up of lead will scratch the top of your aluminum mold. Once it is clean you can remove it from the mold then lap it on a sharpening stone or a piece of sandpaper on glass. It is probably not perfectly flat and smooth on the bottom and that is why lead is sticking.

I would also advise to not smoke the mold. Smoking only seems to add new problems such as wrinkles or bullets that cast undersized. A clean aluminum mold will get a hard layer of aluminum oxide on the surface of the cavities after a few heating and cooling cycles. Every 5000 bullets or so I will get some oil residue or other buildup that makes a mold not want to fill out and I need to polish the bullet cavities. I cast a bullet with a nut sitting on top of the cavity, then spin that bullet in the cavities with Ajax or Comet cleaner. I am telling you about this because you might need to polish your mold cavities if lead continues to build up on the mold when you cast bullets.

[charlie b]

The above is good advice. I never smoke my molds. Bullets might stick for a while but as the mold is used they start to fall out. I have used powdered graphite applied cold on a stubborn mold (Lee 2 cavity) and it seemed to work good.

I run my pot hot. It has a golden brown layer on top (with some blue streaks just to make it pretty :) ). The alloy is Lyman #2. If you want to get rid of it the cat litter idea is good. I used sawdust. Both of these will smoke a lot so you would have to use an exhaust fan while casting.

[Barry54]

I prefer an old school analog thermometer. The digital version seems more likely to break prematurely in my opinion.

[vrod1023]

Hey buddy you got that mold pretty messed up with lead splatter. One time I nearly ruined a mold (I thought at the time) when I fumbled a cold 2 cavity mold and dropped it in the lead pot. It came out looking about like yours.

The first thing is DON'T USE A BRASS BRUSH! It will scratch your aluminum. If you scratch or dent the edges of a bullet cavity your bullets will stick horribly and you will have to beat the mold to make the bullets fall out.

You need to get that mold smoking hot. How do you know if it is smoking? COVER it in synthetic 2 stroke oil, maybe dunk it, then float it on top of the lead until you see smoke on the whole mold including the sprue plate. Once it is smoking hot, get some gloves and a cotton cloth and wipe it really hard. Push down hard as you wipe and the oil steam and warmth will let the lead slide off. Where there is lead in your air vent channels you will need to use a toothpick to scratch and scrape it out.

It looks like you have lead stuck on the bottom of your sprue plate. You need to keep the bottom clean because the build up of lead will scratch the top of your aluminum mold. Once it is clean you can remove it from the mold then lap it on a sharpening stone or a piece of sandpaper on glass. It is probably not perfectly flat and smooth on the bottom and that is why lead is sticking.

I would also advise to not smoke the mold. Smoking only seems to add new problems such as wrinkles or bullets that cast undersized. A clean aluminum mold will get a hard layer of aluminum oxide on the surface of the cavities after a few heating and cooling cycles. Every 5000 bullets or so I will get some oil residue or other buildup that makes a mold not want to fill out and I need to polish the bullet cavities. I cast a bullet with a nut sitting on top of the cavity, then spin that bullet in the cavities with Ajax or Comet cleaner. I am telling you about this because you might need to polish your mold cavities if lead continues to build up on the mold when you cast bullets.Thank you for all the tips. You're right about the sprue plate - I didn't notice that until it was too late. Did you notice the pins on the left side of the mold? What are they for? Just wondering [emoji848]

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[Barry54]

Four pages of posts on this thread and it’s been up around 26 hours. Just goes to show how much this group wants a new caster to be successful!

[vrod1023]

The above is good advice. I never smoke my molds. Bullets might stick for a while but as the mold is used they start to fall out. I have used powdered graphite applied cold on a stubborn mold (Lee 2 cavity) and it seemed to work good.

I run my pot hot. It has a golden brown layer on top (with some blue streaks just to make it pretty :) ). The alloy is Lyman #2. If you want to get rid of it the cat litter idea is good. I used sawdust. Both of these will smoke a lot so you would have to use an exhaust fan while casting.Great stuff! I will strip the mold and clean it again.

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[vrod1023]

Four pages of posts on this thread and it’s been up around 26 hours. Just goes to show how much this group wants a new caster to be successful!Yes sir! I am really grateful for all the responses. I have plenty of homework.

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[vrod1023]

I prefer an old school analog thermometer. The digital version seems more likely to break prematurely in my opinion.I hear you. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I found an analog thermometer online but shipping to me would be $100. I can get the digital thermometer and some Frankford Arsenal flux for $75. Can't find this analog thermometers anywhere locally here in SA.

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[waksupi]

I hear you. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I found an analog thermometer online but shipping to me would be $100. I can get the digital thermometer and some Frankford Arsenal flux for $75. Can't find this analog thermometers anywhere locally here in SA.

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No need for the flux. Stir your melt with a dry stick, and save your money.

[dverna]

Thanks Dusty. I live in a townhouse complex with a really nosey 80+year old neighbor so unfortunately can't do it outside or I will face the Spanish Inquisition hahaha.

Casting indoors is not a good idea. If you must do that, a few things to consider.

Bear in mind I am a "safety Nazi" and have been accused of being "over the top"...but here goes.

If you live with people you love, you need to vent the fumes. That will require some kind of hood and vent system with a powered exhaust fan to the outdoors.

Then, you need to be prepared for a major spill of hot lead. That includes some way to contain it, a large fire extinguisher in case stuff starts to burn, and a few pails of water. If your home has a basement, that is a good location as a spill on concrete has much less risk. Place your casting setup away from flammable surfaces.

Some of the suggestions you received will generate a lot of smoke that is not pleasant to the sense of smell. If you move forward with them, wait until dark so your neighbors do not call the fire department. That will not be a pleasant experience. If you are renting, your landlord may deal with you harshly. If you have a fire, your insurance company may view melting lead in a home as gross negligence and not an accident. Many insurers will not cover gross negligence. Contacting your insurer is suggested.

IMO you should not be casting bullets until you know you can go it safely and without financial risk. If I was in your situation, I would buy bullets, or find a friend or relative that has a place where I could cast outdoors.

[vrod1023]

Casting indoors is not a good idea. If you must do that, a few things to consider.

Bear in mind I am a "safety Nazi" and have been accused of being "over the top"...but here goes.

If you live with people you love, you need to vent the fumes. That will require some kind of hood and vent system with a powered exhaust fan to the outdoors.

Then, you need to be prepared for a major spill of hot lead. That includes some way to contain it, a large fire extinguisher in case stuff starts to burn, and a few pails of water. If your home has a basement, that is a good location as a spill on concrete has much less risk. Place your casting setup away from flammable surfaces.

Some of the suggestions you received will generate a lot of smoke that is not pleasant to the sense of smell. If you move forward with them, wait until dark so your neighbors do not call the fire department. That will not be a pleasant experience. If you are renting, your landlord may deal with you harshly. If you have a fire, your insurance company may view melting lead in a home as gross negligence and not an accident. Many insurers will not cover gross negligence. Contacting your insurer is suggested.

IMO you should not be casting bullets until you know you can go it safely and without financial risk. If I was in your situation, I would buy bullets, or find a friend or relative that has a place where I could cast outdoors.No problem with the safety precautions. I will take as many of the suggestions forward as I can but I'm really enjoying the fact that I started and the assistance from the group has been a real motivator. I have the garage door and the back door open so there's a real draft that pulls through. I'm really being extra careful and I have my work bench setup where nothing can catch flame. It's a brick wall and a concrete floor.

Your advice is appreciated.

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[Rich/WIS]

Looks like that mold started life as a Lee 6 cavity and has been extensively modified.

[vrod1023]

Looks like that mold started life as a Lee 6 cavity and has been extensively modified.It's a locally made mold not Lee. Extensively modified? How?

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[Dusty Bannister]

The mold blocks, sprue plate and cam opening system look like Lee. However the hardware to attach blocks to the handles, captive HP pin system, and hinge bolt and hold down bolt are not Lee but a product made in South Africa. I visited the web site to see if they have better information to explain or illustrate their product and it is pretty barren. Maybe if a few photos were taken in bright overcast it might show the details a little better.

[vrod1023]

The mold blocks, sprue plate and cam opening system look like Lee. However the hardware to attach blocks to the handles, captive HP pin system, and hinge bolt and hold down bolt are not Lee but a product made in South Africa. I visited the web site to see if they have better information to explain or illustrate their product and it is pretty barren. Maybe if a few photos were taken in bright overcast it might show the details a little better.Thanks for that bit of information. Once I've cleaned it I will take more pics. Lee 2 cavity on the way.

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[fredj338]

Wow, the mold looks in pretty bad shape, hopefully you can get it cleaned up. IMO, you dont need a therm with a Lee 20#, just turn it to 8 & heat everything up. Lubricating the mold alignment pins is important & making sure the mold is 100% closed beforf pouring will prevent smearing.

[dondiego]

You don't have to thank every person who responds to one of your posts. We understand.

[charlie b]

All the thanks we need is to see some nice bullets being made!

[Barry54]

Which Lee two cavity mold do you have on the way?

[vrod1023]

Which Lee two cavity mold do you have on the way?LEE Double Cavity TL356-124-2R Bullet Mold.

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[dverna]

No problem with the safety precautions. I will take as many of the suggestions forward as I can but I'm really enjoying the fact that I started and the assistance from the group has been a real motivator. I have the garage door and the back door open so there's a real draft that pulls through. I'm really being extra careful and I have my work bench setup where nothing can catch flame. It's a brick wall and a concrete floor.

Your advice is appreciated.

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Cultural differences are interesting. When you said you were "casting indoors", I assumed what indoors mean to me. A garage is a great place to cast...just not considered "indoors" by anyone in my circle of friends...and that includes a lot of rural hillbillies.

Good luck!!!

[2TM101]

LEE Double Cavity TL356-124-2R Bullet Mold.

If I was starting over I would have gotten that one first. Its designed for tumble lubing which is by far the easiest way to lube.

[LenH]

I have a 6 cavity mold from lee and the hardest lesson to learn is to not grip the sprue handle. It caused a gap between the mold blocks and the plate.
Good luck on your casting venture. It isn't that hard or I couldn't do it.

[vrod1023]

I have a 6 cavity mold from lee and the hardest lesson to learn is to not grip the sprue handle. It caused a gap between the mold blocks and the plate.
Good luck on your casting venture. It isn't that hard or I couldn't do it.As soon as I get that mold I will get back on that pony and pump the heat up on the pot and the mold.

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[Willie T]

Been following along. Your mold pictures are telling. All that pookie on the mold faces has to come off. Same with the top of the mold and the sprue plate. If anything is stuck to the pins or cavities it had to come off as well. Same with the vent lines. Don’t scratch the mold faces removing all of that mess. You have received some good advice on how to remove all the boogers. I will add that a clean lead ingot will not scratch aluminum and is what I use to scrub stubborn boogers off the mold faces.

[vrod1023]

Been following along. Your mold pictures are telling. All that pookie on the mold faces has to come off. Same with the top of the mold and the sprue plate. If anything is stuck to the pins or cavities it had to come off as well. Same with the vent lines. Don’t scratch the mold faces removing all of that mess. You have received some good advice on how to remove all the boogers. I will add that a clean lead ingot will not scratch aluminum and is what I use to scrub stubborn boogers off the mold faces.Will do. Got new mold. Should be easier to get some boolits with this but we will see. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240326/c5709916fbd5439d4a673cd375cff78d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240326/fdb2c27a2f3e7aa94c32f18d4b78a72b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240326/e62306e493df280134932b27937dbe99.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240326/ec3511573369d569033a6ccbef698cbb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240326/c70f06d77d5c77ddb3fed6153a803327.jpg

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[john.k]

Rub some moly (MoS2) grease into the top and underside of the sprueplate to stop scoring ..........if bits come loose ,as they sometimes do,simply wet the part with beeswax ,which will carbonize and set the bits permanently........Several of my Lee 2 pacs had the alignment pins and guides come loose .......dont lose them ,as they can fall out......use the beeswax and push the pins back into place.

[owejia]

A #2 graphite writing pencil, or a carpenters graphite pencil will work to lube the bottom of your sprue plate . I quit using syntenic 2 stroke oil on my sprue plates because the oil has a tendency to weep down into the cavities causing wrinkles on the boolits. Lay the pencil flat and rub across the bottom of sprue plate and you can see the thin film of graphite on the surface. Also works on top of the mould to keep smearing down. I sometimes rub the faces of the mould also to keep splatter from sticking even coat the sprue pour hole so the cut sprues releases easily. Bullet casting is enjoyable to me when I get the kinks worked out. The micro film of the graphite does not change the dimensions of your boolits. I found that the graphite pencil lead was a lot less hassle to use than having to keep up with a small container of oil for lubricating my moulds. Almost forgot to mention the graphite pencil lead can be used on the pins of the hollow point mould to help them release the boolits also. Just reapply as needed. Just use common sense when rubbing so not to damage sharp edges.

[2TM101]

Another thing to watch is those two little black plugs at the bottom. They can get pushed into the mold and then it won't align right, and you may not notice until you cast a lot of unusable stuff, which can be real discouraging. Its no that hard to fix when it happens, but I cast a *lot* of bad .54 ball because of that when I was just getting back into this.

All of which got fired out of a .60 smoothbore flintlock pistol instead of being remelted, but you probably do not have that option.

[Willie T]

Will do. Got new mold. Should be easier to get some boolits with this but we will see. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240326/c5709916fbd5439d4a673cd375cff78d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240326/fdb2c27a2f3e7aa94c32f18d4b78a72b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240326/e62306e493df280134932b27937dbe99.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240326/ec3511573369d569033a6ccbef698cbb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240326/c70f06d77d5c77ddb3fed6153a803327.jpg

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Those tumble lube molds are easy to cast with. Before you start:
1. Make a billet and get a pair of welding gloves. A wooden hammer handle with the last 3”-4” of the big end wrapped in duct tape will work for a billet.
2.turn your pot all the way up and melt your alloy. After things melt, flux 2-3 times. Bees wax or saw dust are probably the two most commonly used fluxes.
3. turn the rheostat down to about 75% and let it stew for a half hour with your mold on top of the pot.
4. you can get by just fine without a thermometer. Holding the mold firmly closed, dip the bottom front 1/2” of the mold under the alloy and hold it there for 30 seconds and take it out. Keep the mold firmly closed. The alloy will harden. Then the color will turn dull. Keep the mold held closed and use your billet to rap the hinge bolt on handles a couple times. If the lead falls off you are ready to start. If not, dip it back in and heat for 15 seconds and try again. Repeat till the lead comes off and then start casting.
5. Fill the mold in one motion. Fill until the cavity on top of the sprue plate remains full in one continuous pour. Immediately fill the second cavity.
6. Watch the sprue hardening. Then watch the color turn dull. Open the sprue plate with your gloves hand. If it is difficult to open use the billet to rap the tab on the sprue plate to cut the sprue.
7. Open the mold. If the bullets fall out on their own, great. If not, rap the hinge bolt on the handles a time or two and they should fall out. Don’t hit the mold or the handles.
8. Refill and repeat.
9. Learn to watch what the bullets look like. If they are shiny and wrinkled turn up the heat a smidge and keep going. If they look frosted turn down the heat a smidge and keep going.
10. After the last cavity is filled, keep a count in your head how long it takes for the sprue to harden and turn dull. As the mold heats the timing will change. When you find the sweet spot you can then hold that timing. You may need to tweak the temp after everything comes up to temp to stay in the sweet spot.
11. Think of filling the mold with alloy as pouring heat. Getting the mold up to temperature and keeping it in the sweet spot is the key.
12. After things come up to temperature if your bullets start frosting and sticking your mold is getting too hot. Slow down a smidge or turn the temperature down. If they start getting wrinkles again, speed up your timing or turn up the heat a smidge.
13. If the base of the bullet has a divot where you cut the sprue, it has not fully solidified and you are cutting the sprue to soon.

The bullets that are dropping from your mold are what gives you the feedback to make adjustments. Be safe and enjoy learning with your new mold.
Willie

[vrod1023]

Those tumble lube molds are easy to cast with. Before you start:
1. Make a billet and get a pair of welding gloves. A wooden hammer handle with the last 3”-4” of the big end wrapped in duct tape will work for a billet.
2.turn your pot all the way up and melt your alloy. After things melt, flux 2-3 times. Bees wax or saw dust are probably the two most commonly used fluxes.
3. turn the rheostat down to about 75% and let it stew for a half hour with your mold on top of the pot.
4. you can get by just fine without a thermometer. Holding the mold firmly closed, dip the bottom front 1/2” of the mold under the alloy and hold it there for 30 seconds and take it out. Keep the mold firmly closed. The alloy will harden. Then the color will turn dull. Keep the mold held closed and use your billet to rap the hinge bolt on handles a couple times. If the lead falls off you are ready to start. If not, dip it back in and heat for 15 seconds and try again. Repeat till the lead comes off and then start casting.
5. Fill the mold in one motion. Fill until the cavity on top of the sprue plate remains full in one continuous pour. Immediately fill the second cavity.
6. Watch the sprue hardening. Then watch the color turn dull. Open the sprue plate with your gloves hand. If it is difficult to open use the billet to rap the tab on the sprue plate to cut the sprue.
7. Open the mold. If the bullets fall out on their own, great. If not, rap the hinge bolt on the handles a time or two and they should fall out. Don’t hit the mold or the handles.
8. Refill and repeat.
9. Learn to watch what the bullets look like. If they are shiny and wrinkled turn up the heat a smidge and keep going. If they look frosted turn down the heat a smidge and keep going.
10. After the last cavity is filled, keep a count in your head how long it takes for the sprue to harden and turn dull. As the mold heats the timing will change. When you find the sweet spot you can then hold that timing. You may need to tweak the temp after everything comes up to temp to stay in the sweet spot.
11. Think of filling the mold with alloy as pouring heat. Getting the mold up to temperature and keeping it in the sweet spot is the key.
12. After things come up to temperature if your bullets start frosting and sticking your mold is getting too hot. Slow down a smidge or turn the temperature down. If they start getting wrinkles again, speed up your timing or turn up the heat a smidge.
13. If the base of the bullet has a divot where you cut the sprue, it has not fully solidified and you are cutting the sprue to soon.

The bullets that are dropping from your mold are what gives you the feedback to make adjustments. Be safe and enjoy learning with your new mold.
WillieThanks for making this list.

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[Willie T]

You are welcome but no thanks are necessary. Just post up a few pictures of some 9mm bullets you cast! Make sure to scrub your mold well before you start. There will be instructions inside the box.
Willie

[muskeg13]

Oh my! You were doomed from the start. Trying to produce good boolits with a Lee 6-cavity mould, and hollow points to boot, is a recipe for a first cast disaster, but it's not your fault. I've been casting for 49 years, and I'll admit what you attempted is something I'd have difficulty being successful with today. To produce good boolits from a multicavity mould becomes more difficult as the number of cavities increases, particularly when you exceed 4 cavities. Casting good hollow point (or hollow base) boolits is always harder to do than with solids. I was lucky to begin casting with a heavily constructed 4-cavity iron Lyman 429421 that is VERY forgiving. I use a Lee 20# dipper (not bottom pour) pot these days, and getting good boolits every pour sequence with more than 4 cavities being filled is not easy. Lee aluminum moulds are lightly constructed compared to other makes, and their 6 cavity moulds are quite flimsy. I'm always worried about breaking something when I go to knock the sprue plate loose, even without the resistance of hollowpoint pins. I sometimes get better results by only filling 4 out of 6 cavities at the time on a Lee 6 cavity mould.

In the future, if you can get and afford them, I strongly recommend investing in multi-cavity moulds, particularly hollow point or hollow base moulds, from MP Molds in Slovenia. I believe these are the finest production moulds you can buy, particularly their brass offerings, absolute works of art.

[vrod1023]

Oh my! You were doomed from the start. Trying to produce good boolits with a Lee 6-cavity mould, and hollow points to boot, is a recipe for a first cast disaster, but it's not your fault. I've been casting for 49 years, and I'll admit what you attempted is something I'd have difficulty being successful with today. To produce good boolits from a multicavity mould becomes more difficult as the number of cavities increases, particularly when you exceed 4 cavities. Casting good hollow point (or hollow base) boolits is always harder to do than with solids. I was lucky to begin casting with a heavily constructed 4-cavity iron Lyman 429421 that is VERY forgiving. I use a Lee 20# dipper (not bottom pour) pot these days, and getting good boolits every pour sequence with more than 4 cavities being filled is not easy. Lee aluminum moulds are lightly constructed compared to other makes, and their 6 cavity moulds are quite flimsy. I'm always worried about breaking something when I go to knock the sprue plate loose, even without the resistance of hollowpoint pins. I sometimes get better results by only filling 4 out of 6 cavities at the time on a Lee 6 cavity mould.

In the future, if you can get and afford them, I strongly recommend investing in multi-cavity moulds, particularly hollow point or hollow base moulds, from MP Molds in Slovenia. I believe these are the finest production moulds you can buy, particularly their brass offerings, absolute works of art.Yes totally inexperienced. But we live and learn. Will take a look at MP molds. [emoji106]

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[vrod1023]

Oh my! You were doomed from the start. Trying to produce good boolits with a Lee 6-cavity mould, and hollow points to boot, is a recipe for a first cast disaster, but it's not your fault. I've been casting for 49 years, and I'll admit what you attempted is something I'd have difficulty being successful with today. To produce good boolits from a multicavity mould becomes more difficult as the number of cavities increases, particularly when you exceed 4 cavities. Casting good hollow point (or hollow base) boolits is always harder to do than with solids. I was lucky to begin casting with a heavily constructed 4-cavity iron Lyman 429421 that is VERY forgiving. I use a Lee 20# dipper (not bottom pour) pot these days, and getting good boolits every pour sequence with more than 4 cavities being filled is not easy. Lee aluminum moulds are lightly constructed compared to other makes, and their 6 cavity moulds are quite flimsy. I'm always worried about breaking something when I go to knock the sprue plate loose, even without the resistance of hollowpoint pins. I sometimes get better results by only filling 4 out of 6 cavities at the time on a Lee 6 cavity mould.

In the future, if you can get and afford them, I strongly recommend investing in multi-cavity moulds, particularly hollow point or hollow base moulds, from MP Molds in Slovenia. I believe these are the finest production moulds you can buy, particularly their brass offerings, absolute works of art.I went onto their website. Confusing. What selections do I make to find the right mold? I want 9mm, sizing to .356 HP. They have brass, steel, cast iron as options. Which is easiest to heat?

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[Thumbcocker]

Strongly advise against sizing 9mm to .356. Most shoot best at .357+. I personally size to .358 for all 9mm. Slug your bore. As for MP molds, the brass ones are absolute jewels. Tip, brass molds like to run hot. Once up to temp they make beautiful boolits. Be sure to use the mold lube that they come with. I put it in a needle oiler and use tiny drops. A Q tip will also work. As stated before, turn the pot up to maximum with a layer or cat litter or oil dry on top and let the mold heat for one hour on top of the litter before casting. Very important to degrease the mold. I have put brass molds in the dishwasher with good results. The nose pins are hosed down with brake parts cleaner while laying on a clean cloth or paper towel.

[muskeg13]

I went onto their website. Confusing. What selections do I make to find the right mold? I want 9mm, sizing to .356 HP. They have brass, steel, cast iron as options. Which is easiest to heat?

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Like Thumbcocker says above, slug your bore. Some of my .380/9mm pistols can digest up to .358, but one needs to be sized to .356. If yours is not over .357, I'd go with this one: https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-357-125-hp-pb-4-cav/ This is a 4-cavity brass plain base mould that casts .357 125gr HP and 130gr solid flat nosed bullets.

I have two MP Brass 4-cavity moulds, a .314 HP/solid (100/106gr) that I size to either .311 or .313 for several .32-20 and .32 S&W Long revolvers, and a .402 HP/Solid (190/200gr) for several 10mm or .38-40 handguns and carbines. I think MP specializes in brass because it machines well, is durable, doesn't corrode easily and retains heat well. I'm not sure if the heating properties of brass is any better than iron or steel, but my limited experience with brass moulds is that they cast more good bullets quicker with less fuss than most of my aluminum or iron/steel moulds. Brass moulds usually cost a bit more and are a little heavier than iron/steel, but MP offers them at reasonable prices.

I "smoke" newly cleaned moulds with a butane lighter or wood match to deposit a thin carbon layer. This seems to help getting bullets to drop free easier, and I only need to do this once prior to heating the moulds. If the carbon layer seems too thick, just lightly rub the inside of the mould with a cotton Q-tip swab. Unlike most advice given here, I don't spend a lot of time/effort pre-heating the moulds. I usually just set the moulds on the rim of the Lee pot while the alloy is heating and begin casting as soon as the alloy is up to temp and fluxed. If the moulds are still too cold, they'll quickly come up to temp after a few pours.

[vrod1023]

Strongly advise against sizing 9mm to .356. Most shoot best at .357+. I personally size to .358 for all 9mm. Slug your bore. As for MP molds, the brass ones are absolute jewels. Tip, brass molds like to run hot. Once up to temp they make beautiful boolits. Be sure to use the mold lube that they come with. I put it in a needle oiler and use tiny drops. A Q tip will also work. As stated before, turn the pot up to maximum with a layer or cat litter or oil dry on top and let the mold heat for one hour on top of the litter before casting. Very important to degrease the mold. I have put brass molds in the dishwasher with good results. The nose pins are hosed down with brake parts cleaner while laying on a clean cloth or paper towel.We don't have oil dri here but I can get clay based cat litter. Apart from layering the cat litter on the top how do you later get rid of it?

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[Thumbcocker]

I don't. The cat litter stays put. It prevents oxidation of the lead. I also think it reduces splashing. It gives protection for the mold so it doesent have direct contact with the hot lead. You just drop sprues, reject boolits, or more alloy through the litter. Every once in a while I change out the litter just scoop it off with a spoon. This assumes you are starting with clean lead and are adding clean ingots. I do not flux in the pot. I start with clean alloy and add clean ingots.

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[Dusty Bannister]

Just skim and scoop off the dry material as you would with the dross left after fluxing. I use a cheap spoon with a small hole drilled in the bowl to allow the hot lead to drain out while retaining the trash in the spoon. I drill the spoon handle and attach to a wood handle to get the fingers a little further away from the pot and to insulate the handle. The spoon can be used to scrape or rub the sides of the pot either with the side of the spoon edge or the bottom of the bowl to loosen dirt that forms on the side of the casting furnace.

[mehavey]

Pictures 1 & 2 look perfectomundo:bigsmyl2:, pic 3 a little cold yet
(but certainly just as perfectly shootable no problemmo at all.)
[smilie=p:

CONGRATS !

[vrod1023]

Thanks mehavey! I made an error the first pic is not mine it was a pic sent to me by HermanS. I have deleted post and will repost my photos. But it is encouraging and once again thanks to all and particularly Dusty Bannister and HermanS.

[vrod1023]

Here are my pics guys! Spoke to HermanS and he had a chuckle [emoji2] https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240405/ccafd820c2043625b3fc4dcd2388ca33.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240405/535a0c162455673f886ac5f453e4b5ad.jpg

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[Thumbcocker]

Be sure to give us a range report. Maybe in a new thread.

[vrod1023]

Yes sir will do.

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[Willie T]

I dropped in here just to see those pictures! Great to see you are up and running.
Enjoy the hobby!
Willie T

[vrod1023]

Thanks Willie T! Now to be able to replicate the process. [emoji16]

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[Barry54]

Congratulations!
As my old boss used to say:
I’m glad you didn’t “throw your skirt over your head” and give up.

[vrod1023]

Appreciate it Barry54!

Was your old boss Scottish?[emoji38]

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[vrod1023]

Update: I've cast for the second time this week and my bullets averaged close to .356 (attached). Today I tried powder coating for 1st time and it was a partial success. Was able to coat them twice; passed the acetone transfer test but not entirely the smash test. The supplier and I have been in touch and he says it's because my mix was 30% acetone 70% denatured alcohol. That's what was in the video. However the instructions on his website calls for 50/50 ratio. He thinks they will shoot. So I'm going to call that a day and another learning curve. Here's some photos.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240502/5bb1c7e87ca3ff322d3bc0d89c4aa88e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240502/b6113ecf7989a832735efb61d7c81ca9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240502/239092cc4a330363c3e6654d75ea9650.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240502/88141e1ef3017adae0daff638e9c4b60.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240502/318bded214ec1ff02ee52f4af1fa27a4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240502/98d245cc734af705fd0d1a5dfab2a177.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240502/bde474448b625f53b2bc717b5509c3bf.jpg

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[Barry54]

Congratulations!
Glad you didn’t give up prematurely!!!

Now post some targets showing how they shoot.

[vrod1023]

Thanks Barry! It's been slow up to this point but I aim to get to the range some time next week.

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[Duckiller]

Somewhere it was mentioned that you had a problem with your sprue plate. I use a replacement hammer handle. Just the handle no hammer. Some times I can open the sprue with a gloved hand. Not sure what it takes to do that. The butt of my 20 year old hammer handle is getting chewed up but it still works. As soon as the sprue looks solid I whack it. All the books say dump you boolits on a fluffy towel. I just dump mine in a pizza or shoe box. Your powder coated boolits looked good enough to kill lots of paper targets or tin cans. Enjoy the hobby and stay with the forum.

[vrod1023]

Much appreciated duckiller! I picked up a hammer handle online and it works well. I'm going to the range on Monday. I will report back :)

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[6.5X284ever]

I am a few weeks out from my first casting attempt. Lots of great information in this thread. I must say I am impressed by the lengths more experienced members will go to, to help us new guys. OP, I was rooting for you, glad you found success !

[vrod1023]

I am a few weeks out from my first casting attempt. Lots of great information in this thread. I must say I am impressed by the lengths more experienced members will go to, to help us new guys. OP, I was rooting for you, glad you found success !Thank you sir! Much appreciated. I went to the range today and the following 3 targets are the result.Guns used were CZP07 and Astra A75. The one not marked was with both the CZ P07 and Astra A75 - just random shooting. The bullet was the cast TL 356-124-2R. I cannot judge how good or bad it is because I know I don't shoot as much as I should. But I see on the one target some keyholing? Is that the term? Unfortunately...and this is the first time it happened...I had more squibs than I'd like and so it turned out a bit of a heebiejeebie moment. Granted I had not been checking my powder drops...apparently it's common with the Lee Powder Disk measure when the powder gets low it undercharges. Think I literally dodged a few bullets there. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240510/8c3e277538721cd443de0eaf3fdaf2be.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240510/d56a23cf3bd49687cc32ff6caddeeeb2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240510/599b790db890cfdcda9ee9abda55ce81.jpg

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[Barry54]

I’m not seeing which ones you think are keyholing? Looks like torn paper from lack of a target backer to me.

I actually trust the Lee auto disc measure. Which orifice were you using?
Small charge drops of flake powder can be erratic with almost any measure. What is the grain structure of your powder?

To me a squib is when a projectile doesn’t have enough energy to leave the barrel. If you are having malfunctions you may not be using enough powder. Or some firearms are sensitive to “limp wristing” by the operator. I assume you didn’t have malfunctioning with factory ammunition and rule out operator error.

Lee is known to drop powder charges lighter than they say, to error on the side of caution. So if you selected the disc orifice From the chart it’s probably dropping less than advertised.

If you have a Lee scale, please check and re-zero it if needed. (Set everything to zero. Adjust the brass weight to where it balances) I’ve seen one scale two grains off, which is quite dangerous when dealing with 4-7 grain charge weights. But my free diagnosis from this continent is you might just need to move up one orifice larger on your measure.

[WRideout]

In a 9x19 semi-auto pressure is your friend, up to +P loads. You might try weighing a box of loads at book max charge weight, and see how they work in your guns.

At any rate, I would weight check charges from your powder measure. Pre-determined charges, read from a chart, need to verified by weighing.

Wayne

[vrod1023]

I’m not seeing which ones you think are keyholing? Looks like torn paper from lack of a target backer to me.

I actually trust the Lee auto disc measure. Which orifice were you using?
Small charge drops of flake powder can be erratic with almost any measure. What is the grain structure of your powder?

To me a squib is when a projectile doesn’t have enough energy to leave the barrel. If you are having malfunctions you may not be using enough powder. Or some firearms are sensitive to “limp wristing” by the operator. I assume you didn’t have malfunctioning with factory ammunition and rule out operator error.

Lee is known to drop powder charges lighter than they say, to error on the side of caution. So if you selected the disc orifice From the chart it’s probably dropping less than advertised.

If you have a Lee scale, please check and re-zero it if needed. (Set everything to zero. Adjust the brass weight to where it balances) I’ve seen one scale two grains off, which is quite dangerous when dealing with 4-7 grain charge weights. But my free diagnosis from this continent is you might just need to move up one orifice larger on your measure.You're right. I reloaded some new Boolits this weekend and did exactly that...went one orifice up.

The powder I'm using is Alliant Unique. It's quite a dirty powder in a spherical shape. Haven't done any research on its properties but you've prompted me to.

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[vrod1023]

In a 9x19 semi-auto pressure is your friend, up to +P loads. You might try weighing a box of loads at book max charge weight, and see how they work in your guns.

At any rate, I would weight check charges from your powder measure. Pre-determined charges, read from a chart, need to verified by weighing.

WayneAgreed I'm not using the stated figures from the Lee chart because I noticed that the disks put out less than the quoted charge. I will try that and see if there's a disk which gets me close to 5.8.

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[john.k]

Ive noticed to push the sprue plate by hand,you generally get some shrinkage cavities in the base ,when the sprue is set harder ,the bullet is more solid.

[WRideout]

I love Unique (when I can find it) but it does work best in fairly high pressure loads. When small charge weights are used, even if they work, it leaves a lot of unburned residue behind. I really prefer a faster powder for the 9x19, AKA 9mm Luger, so that I get complete burn. Red Dot/Promo is what I generally always use.

Wayne