45 acp

[The Appalacian]

If you had a large quantity of pure lead, a large quantity of monotype, a Lyman 452374AV, and a NICE running 1911....and you wanted a quick hardball load, what would you do?

https://i.postimg.cc/439y8jPq/Screenshot-20240314-214658-Gallery.jpg

[Finster101]

First thing I would do is get a four cavity mold. :Fire:

[The Appalacian]

First thing I would do is get a four cavity mold. :Fire:

Ok, then what?

[challenger_i]

Well, if you have to ask... :)

A healthy amount of Unique or Bullseye would be a good move. And a jolly good bullet trap, for recycling!

[hc18flyer]

I would use 'Bumpo's alloy calculator on this Forum to form an alloy close to 'Hardball' and get to it. I powder coat, so I would use 97% lead, 1.5% each of antimony and tin. Hardball has closer to 6% antimony and 2% tin, I don't think you need that much antimony? Others should have more experience with that particular mold. I cast the Lyman 452460 for my brothers 1911. I only have a 2 cavity mold. hc18flyer

[Hick]

I've been working on this same problem myself. I have antimonial lead and 1:25 and have been trying a 50:50 blend, which shoots very nicely in my 1911's. Just recently I started working with the 452-374. The tricky part is that, if you seat them to the groove they will be too long for a 1911 mag-- so you have to seat them deep. Layman Cast Bullet handbook has loads for 452-3764 seated deep in 45 acp. BUT when seated deep they tend to get swaged down in diameter and sometimes tumble.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I would use whatever alloy I had and shoot that till it was worn out , if I had enough primers brass and powder , as my 1911 all seem to not care what the alloy is as much as they love the diameter and the coating

[Sandspider500]

You may be thinking of a different mold. The 452374 is loaded fairly long and has very little bearing surface.

[DaleT]

Get a set of handles first :).

sorry couldn't resist an attempt at humor

[The Appalacian]

You may be thinking of a different mold. The 452374 is loaded fairly long and has very little bearing surface.

Nope, thinking of exactly that mold. It's been a few decades since I used it but that bullet has worked very well in previous 1911's I've had and a metal I can't recall exactly what it was.

Since I posted this in the alloys forum I was hoping that someone, anyone, maybe might suggest how to mix my two ingredients. And no, I'm not going to use some calculator thing at the top of the forum that won't work on the only internet device i own.

https://i.postimg.cc/nLyKCJfZ/Screenshot-20240315-051048-Samsung-Internet.jpg

[challenger_i]

My ancient Lyman Pistol and Revolver Handbook states, for the bullet style your mold throws, Lyman #2 alloy.
From an older thread, there is a method of making said alloy:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?315627-Making-Lyman-2-alloy

Hope this is of assistance.

[Barry54]

I have to admit after years of casting, I’ve never used a known alloy. Now, I will cast a batch from a full pot and shoot them as a batch. I’m happy to shoot what I can scrounge up. Makes it more satisfying to me. Have you looked at the price of jacketed bullets recently?!?!? Wow!
I have bought some pure lead with intent to make 20:1 for hunting use, but haven’t gotten around to it yet.

Why not try some test batches of what you have on hand and see what works?
10:1
4:1
Keep good notes, and have fun experimenting.
How much of each metal do you have? Equal amounts? 2:1? You could sell a portion of your stash and use the funds to buy some tin to supplement what you have on hand.

[The Appalacian]

How much of each metal do you have?

130 or so pounds of soft lead so far, around 250 pounds of monotype.

[Barry54]

Wow! What a great situation to be in! Most people have excess soft alloy and need more of the expensive alloys.

[The Appalacian]

My ancient Lyman Pistol and Revolver Handbook states, for the bullet style your mold throws, Lyman #2 alloy.
From an older thread, there is a method of making said alloy:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?315627-Making-Lyman-2-alloy

Hope this is of assistance.

Yes, I have an ancient Lyman book too, and a new one. Most things are with #2 in them.

From that thread you linked:

"#2 is more of a hardness level then a specific exact blend of lead, tin and antimony. That's why there is so many ways to get there with variations in tin and antimony levels."

If I have to I can absolutely go that route working up to a specific hardness, if noone here have better suggestions to get there a little quicker. I'm becoming less and less excited about spending powder and primers on testing.

[The Appalacian]

Wow! What a great situation to be in! Most people have excess soft alloy and need more of the expensive alloys.

I had 500 lbs of mono back in the day. Helped melt it down into ingots and split it with the other guy. Then he got hard up for money so I bought his half and ended up with it all. I've used some over the years and gave some away.

[Bigslug]

Dilute the monotype with 3x pure lead, and you should end up pretty close to the classic wheelweight with 2% tin. Propel with 5 grains of Bullseye.

[The Appalacian]

Dilute the monotype with 3x pure lead, and you should end up pretty close to the classic wheelweight with 2% tin. Propel with 5 grains of Bullseye.

Thank you. That's about what I was figuring on trying. As best as I can recall my previous use of this mold was with COWW, but it was a LONG time ago.

[frkelly74]

Nope, thinking of exactly that mold. It's been a few decades since I used it but that bullet has worked very well in previous 1911's I've had and a metal I can't recall exactly what it was.

Since I posted this in the alloys forum I was hoping that someone, anyone, maybe might suggest how to mix my two ingredients. And no, I'm not going to use some calculator thing at the top of the forum that won't work on the only internet device i own.

https://i.postimg.cc/nLyKCJfZ/Screenshot-20240315-051048-Samsung-Internet.jpg

That is the very first cast bullet I was ever aware of that you could make your own ammo with, back in the 60s. I was a junior rifle club member and the men there used the mold to make their " Chinese Hardball " ammo. A few years ago I acquired my own mold and there was absolutely no drama getting good accuracy and reliability. 100+ years of data and experience from shooters takes most of the guesswork out of the mix. It just seems to work. Other molds have been fun but have always lacked the inevitability of absolute functioning this one has exhibited for me. Range lead salvage , wheel weights if you find some, Grammas pewter pitchers , vases, mugs to sweeten the mix, If it melts I cast with it.

[Bigslug]

Thank you. That's about what I was figuring on trying. As best as I can recall my previous use of this mold was with COWW, but it was a LONG time ago.

I'd also be inclined to try a small batch of them at 4/1 lead/mono, because you certainly don't need WW for 825fps .45 Auto. My only concern would be about reducing the tin content to where fillout suffers. If you have to fight to get a pretty bullet with that mix, you can always drop a chunk of mono in the pot.

[The Appalacian]

I'd also be inclined to try a small batch of them at 4/1 lead/mono, because you certainly don't need WW for 825fps .45 Auto. My only concern would be about reducing the tin content to where fillout suffers. If you have to fight to get a pretty bullet with that mix, you can always drop a chunk of mono in the pot.

True enough

[Hick]

I've been working on this same problem myself. I have antimonial lead and 1:25 and have been trying a 50:50 blend, which shoots very nicely in my 1911's. Just recently I started working with the 452-374. The tricky part is that, if you seat them to the groove they will be too long for a 1911 mag-- so you have to seat them deep. Layman Cast Bullet handbook has loads for 452-3764 seated deep in 45 acp. BUT when seated deep they tend to get swaged down in diameter and sometimes tumble.

For what its worth, I tested 452-374 sized 0.452 and seated to 1.272 (which is deep for that bullet, but necessary to fit the 1911 mag). I used 4.0 grains Titegroup the starting load from the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook. The Lyman load was for the 1.272" COL. One batch was traditional lube the other was Powder coated. My bullets have a BHN about 10 and the bullets tended to be swaged down some due to the deep seating. The lubed ones leaded my barrel but shot nice. The PC'd ones showed no fouling or leading and shot very nicely indeed!

[fredj338]

When you say quick load, you mean higher vel? I would mix 4-1, lead to mono & load it over max charge of Unique for an accurate higher vel load. There are other powders of course but accuracy with Unique & lead bullets has always been very good, especially at the top end.

[Rickf1985]

4-1 will give you a BHN of 12.6 which is good for a 45. Probably a little harder than need be but you did say you wanted hardball. Hardball is actually 16 BHN and that is in the 2100 FPS rifle category.

[bruce381]

Put 8-9 Lbs your soft lead 1-2 lbs montype and cast away size to .452 and load to hardball length look in lyman book or match to any hardball ammo as a deference and go have fun. 231/HP38 about 5 grians

[oldhenry]

+ 1 on the 231/HP38