357 maximum ruger

[murf205]

Just as a question for Ruger 357 Maximum revolver owners that actually shoot their guns. Has any one had the top strap actually eroded to the point of significance? I have read that the erosion was the result of using 125 gr ammo in an attempt to get really high velocities. I know that S&W used blast shields on their scandium revolvers and I have an old hand ejector with a bit of erosion on the inside of the top strap so I am not denying the fact that it can happen. Maybe if Ruger had advised the use of 160+ gr ammo, we might still have a great revolver cartridge in a useable frame size.

[contender1]

Ok you have asked about one of my favorite guns. You asked for info from someone who shoots their .357 Maxi's. How's this?

https://i.postimg.cc/sgdPry1K/Maxi-buck-1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/BXpPTrT1)


Now,, A fine gentleman named David Bradshaw helped Bill & Bill Jr Ruger develop the .357 Maxi. He wrote the initial article for G&A magazine back in the 1980's. He has a TON of experience with them.
The top strap flame cutting was not a new thing to handguns,, but it did get a lot of negative publicity by people who were trying to run a very light bullet,, using a hotter, faster burning powder. The along came Bob Milek who wrote an article for G&A titled; ".357 Maximum, Too much too soon?" Between the folks complaining about the top strap cutting, and that article,, Bill Sr. got pizzed, and stopped production, and scrapped around 5000 guns.

HOWEVER,, the flame cutting became a non-issue for many. Why? Because it only goes in a little way then stops. Kinda a heat, work hardening process. Insignificant.

If you look back,, the lightest FACTORY ammo was a 158 grn bullet. The guns love heavier bullets.

Now,, a few years back,, David Bradshaw,, along with another gentleman,, developed a cast bullet for the .357 Maxi. They both got molds,, cast & powder coated the bullets, added a gas check, and tested them a LOT,, before ever letting others know about it. Once they did,, several of us got molds, and have been shooting the Bradshaw/Martin 194 grn bullet in the Maxi. Using IMR 4227 powder.
The deer in the picture above,, was the 2nd ever deer taken with that bullet. Unless I'm mistaken,, the first deer was a mule deer, so it's the 1st whitetail.
That Maxi also has a set of very good sights. The front,, is a Fermin Garza custom, and the rear is a Garza/Ronnie Wells custom insert. And it's my understanding it's the second deer taken with the custom rear sight as far as I can determine.

So far,, anybody who has a Maxi,, and has gotten the Bradshaw/Martin mold,, all to my knowledge have said it's a very top quality, very accurate bullet. I'm getting a solid average grouping of 4" at 100 yds, from a rest.

As for the top strap cutting? Mine is very small.

Now,, another issue that has also appeared due to the hotter faster powders is the potential for the forcing cone to start eroding. That is also an area to watch. But if using the slower powders,, and heavier bullets,, much less of a problem.

[P Flados]

My son & I both have the Dan Wesson 357 max revolvers. His is blue, mine is stainless. Both show a little top strap cutting after lots of ammo fired (IHMSA & "just shooting"). I have followed this issue for decades, and have never heard of any real problem due to it (in any make of revolver). I do not worry about it.

Both guns have a stainless barrel & when I bought mine (new) it came with a spare barrel.

The one my son got was used a good bit in IHMSA before he bought it. His seemed to "spit lead" out of the cylinder gap. After he shot his for a while I looked closely at the forcing cone and could tell there was some erosion. I installed my spare barrel (he did not get one with his purchase), in his gun and the spitting went away. Since then I have re-cut the forcing cone on what is now our spare barrel. This was easy for me as I have a mini-lathe and the barrel was already out of the gun.

I then took a look at his DW Model 15 (357 Mag). It too had some forcing cone erosion. The barrel was removed, re-cut & re-installed easy peasy.

In summary, the top strap is a non-issue. Forcing cones on any high pressure revolver need to be watched & re-cut as required. With a Ruger, this is not exactly easy. With a DW, it is very easy.

[cwtebay]

Not to upstage your post,, I've killed many whitetails with my 357 max. Top strap flame cutting was a big concern when I purchased the gun. Can't say it's been an issue at all. I took some advice from knowledgeable folks on this forum and steered clear of the offending loads.

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[SSGOldfart]

Not to upstage your post,, I've killed many whitetails with my 357 max. Top strap flame cutting was a big concern when I purchased the gun. Can't say it's been an issue at all. I took some advice from knowledgeable folks on this forum and steered clear of the offending loads.

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I'd have to say the same No Trouble with my Maximum

[rockrat]

IIRC, people were taking 110gr and 125gr bullets and trying to see how fast they could run them. Probably using 296/H110 powder. Of course they were getting some flame cutting using those light bullets.
I had a DW 357 max. (boy, do I regret selling it back then) that I never noticed any flame cutting, but I shot heavies only.

[MT Gianni]

Bob Melek was also heavily involved in the 357 and 30 Herret cartridges as well as the Contender platform. Some writers have undisclosed agendas and some folks just want to be right.

[poppy42]

I love the 357 max. I had the barrel stubbed from a NEF 12 gauge single shot into 367max. Great round! I know it’s not a pistol but I love the gun and the round so much I had to put my 2 cents in! I would love to get a pistol chambered in 357 max!!!

[gunther]

Contender 1: Do you have a picture of the Bradshaw/Martin 194 grain bullet? A 357 max 10" contender barrel is stashed around here somewhere. The fellow I bought it from remarked that it was a thumper with heavy loads. Never got into hunting with it, but with wadcutters and a light load it is incredibly accurate.

[contender1]

Nobody stepping on my toes.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough,, the deer killed were the first ones killed with the bullets,, NOT,, the first ones killed with a .357 Maxi. Lots of game has fallen to the .357 Maxi.

gunther,, I'll see if I can find a picture or two of the bullets. One additional thing about them. David (who is also of IHMSA fame,) developed it,, where he used "deep seating" of the bullet in the case. About .020 below the front driving band. Roll crimp over the top edge of the driving band.

Here's a picture of one of the bullets,, and a loaded round.

https://i.postimg.cc/T1Bvgk79/Bradshaw-Martin-bullet.jpg (https://postimg.cc/tndcHzHZ)

[murf205]

Bob Melek was also heavily involved in the 357 and 30 Herret cartridges as well as the Contender platform. Some writers have undisclosed agendas and some folks just want to be right.

Oh yeah, I remember Milek. He wrote extensively for Guns and Ammo magazine and yes, he did indeed love the Herrett rounds and hunted with Steve Herrett IIRC. Gun writers trashing what ever they desire without fully using or researching a product is/was common. It seems that as soon as they get something in print, they become an expert on everything, in their mind anyway.
Now back to the Maxi. My old shooting buddy has a 10" 357 that had a reamer stuck in it and he gets some great velocities with 200 gr Hornady's. I would really love one but the Contenders in 357 seem to bring a lot more and are harder to find. With me being a wheel gun hound, I would buy a Ruger and in fact I found one i a gunshot in South Dakota but it sold before I could get in touch with the shop. I would really like a CVA Scout in 357 to do the reamer job with but CVA seems to make what they want and not what we want. The Henry single shot has the hammer pretty close to a mounted scope and it is pretty heavy for a single shot. I am not giving up though, If I don't have to spend my rathole gun $ on a lawnmower(ugh) I'll have a Maxi.

[murf205]

What powder do most of you use for 160-200 gr boolits. I don't have a Max yet but it wouldn't be the first time I bought a gun because I had brass and dies for that caliber. Heck, I bought a BLR 358 just because I had a bunch of 308 brass and a set of 358 Win dies. I know, I'm preaching to the choir.

[P Flados]

What powder do most of you use for 160-200 gr boolits.

For a long time I was happy with 296. As my stash of 296 was running out, I got a jug of H110. This was also about the time I was changing over from J words to PC coated boolits. I had ignition problems with the boolits / H110 combination and gave up on H110 for the max.

I looked hard at Lil Gun, but saw too much stuff about it having problems.

Others have reported good 4227 results in the Max, but when I tried it, I did not like it. My gun got "happy" accuracy wise at nothing less than a full charge worked up during the winter. This same load seemed "too hot" in the summer.

I found some Wc 680 (milsurp version of 1680) and found it much to my liking. I started watching for it, found some and stocked up on it. I will probably have some leftover for my son when I am gone. The second purchase was almost 4 years ago (just before things went nuts).

If I were searching for powders at this point, I would take what I could find from the following list:

1680, N110, Enforcer, Accurate 4100, AA 9, SW Blackout.

As a warning, the above are powders that seem to behave well and have the right burn rate. Unfortunately, available load data could be a problem.

[SSGOldfart]

Nobody stepping on my toes.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough,, the deer killed were the first ones killed with the bullets,, NOT,, the first ones killed with a .357 Maxi. Lots of game has fallen to the .357 Maxi.

gunther,, I'll see if I can find a picture or two of the bullets. One additional thing about them. David (who is also of IHMSA fame,) developed it,, where he used "deep seating" of the bullet in the case. About .020 below the front driving band. Roll crimp over the top edge of the driving band.

Here's a picture of one of the bullets,, and a loaded round.

https://i.postimg.cc/T1Bvgk79/Bradshaw-Martin-bullet.jpg (https://postimg.cc/tndcHzHZ)

E.Gates also had a hand in the development,I was lucky enough to test fire it back in the 70's using his home made gun which was built on a contender, my first 40x40 :bigsmyl2:
contender1 I shoot the same boolit, my mold is a HP which leaves a 173gr. boolit but I've been crimping on the forward band and using H110/or 4227 with a S-R-P.

[cwtebay]

For a long time I was happy with 296. As my stash of 296 was running out, I got a jug of H110. This was also about the time I was changing over from J words to PC coated boolits. I had ignition problems with the boolits / H110 combination and gave up on H110 for the max.

I looked hard at Lil Gun, but saw too much stuff about it having problems.

Others have reported good 4227 results in the Max, but when I tried it, I did not like it. My gun got "happy" accuracy wise at nothing less than a full charge worked up during the winter. This same load seemed "too hot" in the summer.

I found some Wc 680 (milsurp version of 1680) and found it much to my liking. I started watching for it, found some and stocked up on it. I will probably have some leftover for my son when I am gone. The second purchase was almost 4 years ago (just before things went nuts).

If I were searching for powders at this point, I would take what I could find from the following list:

1680, N110, Enforcer, Accurate 4100, AA 9, SW Blackout.

As a warning, the above are powders that seem to behave well and have the right burn rate. Unfortunately, available load data could be a problem.I use H110 / W296 with good results.

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[MT Gianni]

I have a contender and have used H110, WW296 and AA9 successfully. I use 2400 for mid range loads.
The above bullet looks like the Ly3586287 with a band missing. I can see why it would shoot.

[contender1]

Several of us who shoot a lot of Maxi's have found that in general,, the overall best powder is IMR 4227. But as we all know,, each gun is a machine unto itself.

SSGT,, you are correct,, in that Mr. Gates did get involved as well. But David did a lot,, and still has, & enjoys A very low 2 digit gun. It was due to the various testing he did with Bill & Bill Jr.

[SSGOldfart]

Several of us who shoot a lot of Maxi's have found that in general,, the overall best powder is IMR 4227. But as we all know,, each gun is a machine unto itself.

SSGT,, you are correct,, in that Mr. Gates did get involved as well. But David did a lot,, and still has, & enjoys A very low 2 digit gun. It was due to the various testing he did with Bill & Bill Jr.

Yes Sir you are correct,I think I still have a couple of cases from that test, they were made by Mr.Gates.

[Bazoo]

Very interesting discussion, thanks all for sharing.

[contender1]

I have both copies of the G&A magazines by David & Milek. And I spend a bit of time conversing with David via the net. A TON of knowledge from David,, that has helped a lot of folks in the shooting world, and not just about the Maxi's. Plus,, another long time friend & fellow Ruger collector,, (goes by coogs) has probably the best collection of Maxi's and the most knowledge about them & I share a lot of good discussions.

Basically, it was the handloaders, and Milek that killed the Maxi. Not it's shortcomings.

You can't build anything with a purpose in mind,, then complain when it doesn't do things it wasn't designed to do. The Maxi was designed as a IHMSA & hunting handgun, with heavier bullets in mind. In fact,, the most popular factory ammo was a 180 grn bullet. When handloaders tried to use 110 or 125 grn bullets, using a hotter, faster burning powder,, it stepped outside the realm of the design.
Sadly,, too many people believe velocity is THE main thing they want out of any ammo. I recall a guy from long ago,, who had a .220 Swift. He was a velocity junkie. He'd load his Swift to where bullets would be so fast,, they would come apart in flight. He also loved to push them to get vapor trails. He was a paper puncher,, and not concerned with accuracy as much as "how fast can I push it."

As David likes to say; "The target is the final judge" and if you aren't accurate, or getting the results on a target you need, then you should re-think what you are doing.

When I get a gun or barrel in any caliber,, I want the best accuracy I can get, with the intended purposes of the caliber in mind. I rind out what the rifling twist is, and what the designers, as well as the folks who publish Reloading books, have found to be the most accurate. Then I start building the ammo within those perimeters.
In the case of the .357 Maxi,, my first one was a T/C Contender barrel. And I studied it before I started loading for it. I found the 180 grn JHP & JSP bullets to be very accurate. I then tried the Hornady 200 grn Spire Pt bullets,, and accuracy fell off. My studies found that the 200 grn bullet design did not mate well with the rifling twist of the Contender. It wasn't as stable in flight due to the bullet's center of gravity, when combined with the twist rate.

The .357 Maximum is a fine caliber, and in the firearms I use it in,, (Ruger & T/C) it has proven to be a top performer when it's loaded with the types of ammo it was designed for. As a hunting round,, (medium to big game,) or as a long range IHMSA competition round, it shines for those who use it. Sadly,, IHMSA isn't as popular as it once was,, but handgun hunting seems to enjoy a slow but steady rise in popularity.
And when you have a handgun with a comfortable recoil, sending a good weighted bullet with very good accuracy at longer ranges, you have the potential for a very popular hunting tool. And the Maxi,, at 100 yds for me,, open sights, getting 3"-4" groups is well within the abilities of a solid hunting tool.

I found myself wishing I'd been carrying my Maxi one day this past season. I was carrying an El Dorado in .45 Colt. The 45 was good for solid 4"-5" groups at 100 yds,, but past that,, it has a larger bullet drop that makes ME not want to try it much beyond that range. (Not saying it's not capable.) But knowing the ballistics of the Maxi,, AND being presented with a NICE 10 pt whitetail at about 160 yds,, I passed on the attempt. If I'd had the maxi in hand,, I know it's ballistics enough to where I could have made that shot, ethically.

No,, the Maxi got trashed and Bill Ruger pulled the plug before the negatives could be explained in a fashion to prevent it's demise. Bill was known for his temper at times.

[Abert Rim]

I always felt I missed out on a Blackhawk in the Max. It seems like such a perfect hunting cartridge for a sixgun.
I enjoyed Milek back in the day and built a .30 Herrett -- my first wildcat -- exactly like his. But he sure had his blind spots, e.g., "There are some hunters, I am sorry to say, who insist that the .45 Colt is a superb game cartridge without being souped up."
Seems to me Rick Jamison had a lot to say about the Max, but I can't recall what he said!:veryconfu

[murf205]

For a long time I was happy with 296. As my stash of 296 was running out, I got a jug of H110. This was also about the time I was changing over from J words to PC coated boolits. I had ignition problems with the boolits / H110 combination and gave up on H110 for the max.

I looked hard at Lil Gun, but saw too much stuff about it having problems.

Others have reported good 4227 results in the Max, but when I tried it, I did not like it. My gun got "happy" accuracy wise at nothing less than a full charge worked up during the winter. This same load seemed "too hot" in the summer.

I found some Wc 680 (milsurp version of 1680) and found it much to my liking. I started watching for it, found some and stocked up on it. I will probably have some leftover for my son when I am gone. The second purchase was almost 4 years ago (just before things went nuts).

If I were searching for powders at this point, I would take what I could find from the following list:

1680, N110, Enforcer, Accurate 4100, AA 9, SW Blackout.

As a warning, the above are powders that seem to behave well and have the right burn rate. Unfortunately, available load data could be a problem.

Thanks for reminding me about Wc 680. That's exactly the powder mu old shooting buddy had the best success with but it is dirty IIRC. He just happens to have 10 1lb cans. I hope they are still good. They are from the early 70's but stored in a controlled environment.

[LeonardC]

For those that missed the Bob Milek article about the .357 Max., it can be read in a '17 thread on Singleactions. The thread on the .357 Max. is 7 pages long.

I miss Bob Milek's stories. He passed away from cancer 1993...hard to believe it was so long ago. He did a lot of good for the handgun hunting community. Among his works on my shelf are HANDGUN HUNTING ACROSS NORTH AMERICA AND CENTERFIRE REVOLVERS TROUBLESHOOTING AND TUNING.

[P Flados]

I have seen "very dirty" ball powder applications. One was Wc 844 (similar to H335) in some stuff where it was obviously much slower than optimum. That was obviously a bad choice and I moved on.

Other times you can find yourself "just living with it". For example, I am running some SW Clean Shot mouse fart loads with small charges under very light for caliber bullets.

I have not really noted Wc 680 as being dirty in any loads I have tried. These loads have probably all been 30,000 psi or more.

[murf205]

My friend with the 357 Max found it to be dirty in his Contender probably as a result of me suggesting that he starting low and work up high-something he is noted for not adhering to. Many yrs and a lot more experience later, I have learned that with some powders, it takes pressure to burn clean. With his propensity to start hot and go hotter, he/we might have found just the right combo. If I can score a maxi, I will let you know if that stash of 680 has not degraded.