Corrosion inside loaded rounds

[Metroxfi]

I recently got a rifle from an aging friend. It's a large wildcat he had built for an elk hunt that never happened but he kept the gun and loved it anyway. I got the rifle (minus the scope), custom dies, leftover powder, and 200+ loaded rounds and a few handfuls of fired brass.

I shot a few rounds of his handloads and about half of them popped the primers out... after doing some digging and comparing I found his handloads to be a bit... spicy... so for several reasons, I decided to pull down all the loaded rounds.

Here's the problem, most of the loaded rounds that I've pulled apart have corrosion on the inside of the cases and the bases of the bullets. 324416324417

The powder was actually stuck to the bullets and the inside of the case. I had to scrape the inside of the case with a pick to break it off, you can see a granule still stuck inside though.

Should I be worried about this? What would cause this? Would the powder be safe to use for fireforming? Are the cases safe to use?

The powder is Accurate 3100, which was discontinued several years ago. The 1lb can he gave me has a price sticker with $18 on it and it was stored in his garage (in ND) so it could have been through several hot/cold cycles but I believe all of the loaded rounds were stored indoors.

[dverna]

The powder in the cases I would dump. If the powder in the can smells and looks normal, it should be good.

I would also scrap the cases. Not worth the risk even though none of the ones you fired split.

But I am old and wary.

[ascast]

I don't think any of that stuff will kill you, unless you get a bullet stuck in the barrel and don't notice until the next shot. But it sounds like a lot of potential headaches. I might save the brass for very light plinking loads. If the cases separate and leave a big hunk in the chamber it might be a huge headache.

[Bent Ramrod]

Occasionally, for no obvious reason, smokeless powder starts to decompose (or, to be more accurate, the natural tendency of the nitroester groups on the cellulose to come off and begin to attack the rest of the nitrocellulose chains overwhelms the stabilizers added to neutralize them and keep them from reacting with anything else). The nitrous and acidic species so produced can also corrode brass cartridge cases and jacketed bullets, if the powder has been loaded into cartridges.

I’m always on the scout for obsolete ammunition which I break down for the components and occasionally find cases like those. After cleaning with vinegar and tumbling, I’ve never found the corrosion has seriously weakened the brass for use, and some of the stuff I find dates back to the Thirties, at least. But I suppose it could happen. Break the stuff down, clean it out, inspect it and make the call.

I had an “as-new,” unopened plastic jar of one of the slow burning Hodgdon powders I bought at a gun show start to clump and smell acidic, even though I’d stored it in moderate conditions and had not broken the seal yet. I put it into my Weber grill and burned it, with spectacular results but no damage. This kind of decomposition reduces the strength of the powder, but could make it more sensitive to things like autoignition, so when I see clumping and smell nitrogen oxides and acid, the stuff gets destroyed. If it is still dry, flows well, doesn’t smell and has only gone so far as to generate rust flakes in the container, I separate the powder from the rust and continue to use it. Never have had trouble doing this, but past performance never guarantees future results, especially for other people.

I would recommend breaking down the loaded ammo, destroying the powder and checking the unused powder for clumping and sour/ozone smells, and proceeding accordingly.

[Metroxfi]

The powder in the 1lb plastic container seemed fine but there was maybe 1/3lb left, not enough to be really useful. Thanks for the tip about vinegar, I'll give that a try. My plan was to pull them all down, separate the ones with corrosion, mark them somehow, tumble them, and keep them loaded but separate from the rest. Maybe I will load them a bit lighter too. I'll play it on the safe side and inspect every case.

I'm fighting myself, I want to salvage as much as I can from this project but I would like my face to stay attached and not get blow off because I didn't want to scrap a few cases. The round is based off of a 375H&H case, necked to .338, and blown out with an Ackley shoulder. At the last gun show a guy had some used 375H&H brass that he wanted $1.50 a piece for. Large rifle magnum primers are $0.12-0.15 a piece and ~85gr of heavy rifle powder isn't cheap either. Even with hornady bullets I'm at $3 per round...

[MostlyLeverGuns]

You might check for 8mm Rem Mag brass along with your .375 H&H. Matt's Bullets has a 338 gas check that should work. Some Universal, Unique, TiteGroup, 5744 should work for mild loads that are fun to shoot. With mild loads and the occasional anneal, that tough Magnum brass should last a very long time. Should not cost more than a 308, 30-30 or '06 for fun shooting or killing pigs and whitetails.

[dverna]

The powder in the 1lb plastic container seemed fine but there was maybe 1/3lb left, not enough to be really useful. Thanks for the tip about vinegar, I'll give that a try. My plan was to pull them all down, separate the ones with corrosion, mark them somehow, tumble them, and keep them loaded but separate from the rest. Maybe I will load them a bit lighter too. I'll play it on the safe side and inspect every case.

I'm fighting myself, I want to salvage as much as I can from this project but I would like my face to stay attached and not get blow off because I didn't want to scrap a few cases. The round is based off of a 375H&H case, necked to .338, and blown out with an Ackley shoulder. At the last gun show a guy had some used 375H&H brass that he wanted $1.50 a piece for. Large rifle magnum primers are $0.12-0.15 a piece and ~85gr of heavy rifle powder isn't cheap either. Even with hornady bullets I'm at $3 per round...

If you get hurt or harm the gun $200 of brass will look like a bargain. That is almost a lifetime supply of cases for a big boomer like that. I have a .300 Win Mag that has less than 100 rounds through it. I bought it for an elk hunt that fell through, and I don't need to plink with a .300 Mag.

[waksupi]

Save the bullets, scrap the rest. There could well be serious copper precipitation inside you can't see.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Also, since the bullets already started to corrode, even if you clean them you can expect them to continue corroding if reloaded and stored.

DG

[Metroxfi]

You might check for 8mm Rem Mag brass along with your .375 H&H. Matt's Bullets has a 338 gas check that should work. Some Universal, Unique, TiteGroup, 5744 should work for mild loads that are fun to shoot. With mild loads and the occasional anneal, that tough Magnum brass should last a very long time. Should not cost more than a 308, 30-30 or '06 for fun shooting or killing pigs and whitetails.

That's not a terrible idea, I wouldn't be opposed to finding a mold and having some milder stuff for it. In the loaded rounds he gave me are some 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag headstamped cases. I did a short search for some 8mm rem mag brass and found one source for twice the price of the 375. I'll definitely keep my eyes open for anything though.

I do realize that I don't need a thousand rounds for something like this, it's not a 223 and I wouldn't be able to handle shooting more than a couple dozen rounds at a time. He had reported to me that necks would split pretty reliably after the second firing. However, that's with his very hot load and I won't be going quite that hot with it. Either way I would like to keep this gun going and if it's hard on brass I'd like to keep a decent amount on hand.

I'll try to pull down the rest of the rounds and get the brass all sorted out. If I clean a few pieces and they seem questionable at all I'll just make keychains out of them or something. If they seem serviceable I may do a mild load but I'll have to clean them and see. My dad has a lighted scope for opening safes that I could use to inspect a couple.

I'll clean the bullets up and save them for fireforming new brass, I'm not too concerned with them. They'll still be accurate enough to blow up 5 gallon buckets of water :D

[Tall]

I would pull the bullets, toss the bullets and powder in the trash, then use my FART to clean the brass followed by my Hornady vibratory cleaner. I bet the brass is fine.

[dondiego]

I would pull the bullets, toss the bullets and powder in the trash, then use my FART to clean the brass followed by my Hornady vibratory cleaner. I bet the brass is fine.

I have NEVER tossed bullets in the trash!

[imashooter2]

The powder in the cases I would dump. If the powder in the can smells and looks normal, it should be good.

I would also scrap the cases. Not worth the risk even though none of the ones you fired split.

But I am old and wary.

Cartridges are basically small bombs you intend to detonate inches from your only pair of eyes. Wary is called for.

[jsizemore]

Single base powder is hygroscopic. Could be when he was shut inside because of rain, he decided to load some ammo with the windows open.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP>>>

I'll try to pull down the rest of the rounds and get the brass all sorted out. If I clean a few pieces and they seem questionable at all I'll just make keychains out of them or something. If they seem serviceable I may do a mild load but I'll have to clean them and see. My dad has a lighted scope for opening safes that I could use to inspect a couple.
I have a couple thoughts...
I would use a Citric acid bath to soak/clean the cases, instead of Vinegar, Citric acid also passivates the brass.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?83572-Citric-acid-brass-cleaner&highlight=citric+acid

Also, there is a common technique to use a dental pick, to "feel" inside a case, for the beginning of case head separation. That should also work to feel if there is any pitting (pitting like on the photo of your bullet.) When you find the worst pitted feeling case, I would cut it in half with a hacksaw or what have you, then you can really see what you have going.

I would be real picky about keeping any of these potentially corroded cases for ammo that could be loaded near 375H&H levels.
Good Luck

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The powder in the 1lb plastic container seemed fine but there was maybe 1/3lb left, not enough to be really useful. Thanks for the tip about vinegar, I'll give that a try. My plan was to pull them all down, separate the ones with corrosion, mark them somehow, tumble them, and keep them loaded but separate from the rest. Maybe I will load them a bit lighter too. I'll play it on the safe side and inspect every case.

I'm fighting myself, I want to salvage as much as I can from this project but I would like my face to stay attached and not get blow off because I didn't want to scrap a few cases. The round is based off of a 375H&H case, necked to .338, and blown out with an Ackley shoulder. At the last gun show a guy had some used 375H&H brass that he wanted $1.50 a piece for. Large rifle magnum primers are $0.12-0.15 a piece and ~85gr of heavy rifle powder isn't cheap either. Even with hornady bullets I'm at $3 per round...
I wish you lived closer to Central MN, as I have a few cans of IMR7828 which I used in 375H&H, and no longer need. Also, I don't have a ton of Mag Large Rifle primers, but what I got, I'll never use.

[243winxb]

Wall hanger. Scrap components & ammo.

[Kennibear]

Scrap it all. Get on the mailing list for all the suppliers and wait for the brass sales. If the necks are splitting after the second load it is because they were not annealed after die forming the case. That works the brass in the neck and the brass should be annealed. Never worth a few bucks to use up questionable components.
I dumped about 8 - one pound cans of 1980's DuPont 3031 because of rusty dusty on the kernels. It makes good fertilizer as is and my roses were both prolific and beautiful that year....

KB

Sent from my SM-A546U using Tapatalk

[Metroxfi]

324481
Got the last of them pulled last night and cut one of the the really bad ones in half. I have to say, it looked worse when I shined a flashlight in before I cut it. A lot of the blue corrosion was scraped off when I used a pick to scrape the powder off of the walls.

After taking the picture I soaked one half in vinegar and the other in hot water with citric acid, then wiped away the junk after 45 minutes or so. I'll try to tumble them today to reveal any pitting but I have to say I hardly felt any pitting/roughness after soaking them. If this was 'a really bad one' and it's really not that bad, most of the brass might be ok. I'll get them cleaned up and get more pictures.

My tentative plan is to deprime all the cases and anneal them, then tumble, resize, and load them with different bullets and different powder. I'll tumble and save the bullets for fireforming new cases in the future but I don't trust the powder, I don't even want it in the house.

[fredj338]

Well I woudn't worry, just pull all the ammo down. Something obviously caused the corrosion. Toss the powder & clean up the bullets, keep the cases, probably deprime them too. WHy we never shoot others reloads. Also why I dont load up 100s or 1000s of rounds.

[Electrod47]

The powder in the cases I would dump. If the powder in the can smells and looks normal, it should be good.

I would also scrap the cases. Not worth the risk even though none of the ones you fired split.

But I am old and wary.

Same here....

[Metroxfi]

324538
This is that same case that I cut in half. I tumbled it (probably way too long) and you can see some pitting. This was one of the worst cases with a ton of blue corrosion. I have no way of accurately measuring how deep the putting is, but i can barely feel it whenscraping across it with my fingernail or a small tool. There are a couple of deeper pits that I can feel but overall it seems like it's mostly surface discoloration.

Of the batch of just over 200 rounds only about 30 were this bad. Maybe another 30 have some corrosion but not nearly as bad and the other 150+ seemed to be good.

Of the 30 that are really bad, most of them had cracked necks. That was noticeable as loaded rounds and I could have pulled the bullets out with my fingers. The brass had not been cleaned prior to reloading them, could that have anything to do with the corrosion more than the others? Dirty VS clean brass?

Also, of the badly corroded cases with cracked necks, about 25 of the 30 were made from 416 Rem mag brass. Actually, I think of all the non cracked brass only 1 or 2 pieces of 416 didn't crack, so at least I'm weeding out a third headstamp. I'm sure they cracked from never being annealed.

So of all the brass I currently have I feel very comfortable with 2/3 of it. The last 100 round box I pulled down had clean cases inside and out and some powder stuck to the bullets but no corrosion or discoloration.

All in all it wasn't as bad as I originally thought. I lose 30 pieces of brass, most of which were already cracked, and have 30 or so more that should either be marked for lighter loads or used for dummy rounds. All the bullets should be usable after some cleaning. Powder will be discarded.

Like Fredj338 said, that's why we don't shoot other's reloads. There are so many variables that are in our control when we reload and so many more that aren't.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

well, that's some good news and very detailed investigation.
Often, you can see more on a enlarged digital photo, than with naked eye. I see more than one serious pit, and I remember this was worst, but the fact there is a few pits, there could be pits in the cases that don't feel as bad, I'd only use the clean ones. I surely would not use any of the "416 Rem mag" marked cases.
.
" I lose 30 pieces of brass, most of which were already cracked, and have 30 or so more that should either be marked for lighter loads or used for dummy rounds."

I wouldn't use any of these 60 for ammo, a few dummy rounds (or jewelry like previously mentioned) sounds like a good plan.

That's my 2¢