Suppressor Questions

[dverna]

I am considering the purchase of one or two units.

One is for .223 caliber to be used on both an AR and bolt gun for coyote hunting. If I buy a .30 cal unit that can be used on the .308's, how much worse will it perform than a dedicated .22 cal unit?

The other is for a 9mm carbine. The 9mm will be for home defense and plinking. I do not want a 7" long unit that weighs a pound. Is there anything on the smaller/lighter side that folks recommend.

How often so these need to be cleaned?

My last request is a long shot. I have never used a suppressor or seen one in use. Is there anyone in mid-Michigan who would be willing to host me for a shooting session so I could experience how they perform first hand? I will supply factory ammunition in 9mm and .223 and reloads in .308. If you do not trust my reloads, I will pay for your loads or get a box of factory ammunition. "In trade", if anyone wants to try a good quality PCP gun, I will bring the Daystate for you to enjoy. I am retired so can make any day work.

TIA

[czgunner]

I really don't notice any noise difference when I use a 30 cal can on my 223 rifles other than WAY less gas to face. I have never cleaned mine and do t worry about it. Some people worry about it and soak them or use an ultrasonics cleaner. Not sure how effect that is.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[HWooldridge]

My son has two cans and several threaded rifles. One unit is sized for .22 and the other at .30 cal. He leaves the .22 on a PPK and the .30 is swapped between several rifles, from .223 up to .308 - that includes a 7mm Rem mag and a 6.5 Creedmoor. As CZGUNNER stated, there is almost no sound difference between calibers but you will hear more of a report from the higher velocity rounds. He generally leaves the 30 on the 6.5 for most of the time because that's his primary hog gun. He is not much for cleaning anything and I doubt either can has ever been disassembled. He bought the 22 first when they were first legalized and the 30 came later.

He went down this road because he has four young children and didn't want to always be packing hearing protection for the kids. I think it's a great solution and am considering getting one for myself.

[DougGuy]

A good can on a pistol length 300AAC with 220gr subs sounds like standing next to a car door closing and the gas system works better.

[redriverhunter]

I do not have the experience answers to your questions. I would suggest strongly that your purchase your suppressor from a big company with a long-term history of great customer support and will repair your suppressor if needed. I purchased a rebel suppressor and had a baffle strike, rebel is no longer in business and now I have an expensive paper weight that I had to wait 9 months to get and cost me 200 for a tax stamp.

[Larry Gibson]

I was shooting a multitude of suppressed weapons [22LR, 9mm, 45 ACP and 7.62 Nato] since '66 in the Army. I've had my own 30 cal suppressor since '80. I also now have a 5.56 suppressor and a 45 ACP suppressor.

The 30 cal and 5.56 suppressors are sealed so disassembly for cleaning is not possible. I have shot a lot of jacketed and cast through the 30 cal over the years and have rebuilt it twice [yes I can rebuild it as I am the manufacturer]. I originally thought I could disassemble it to clean but soon found I could not. even with jacketed ammunition they carbon up very quick making disassembly not possible w/o damage to the suppressor. The Silencer Central Banish 30 is supposedly easy to disassemble and they sell a tool for it. However, reading the finer print in the manual shows they suggest cleaning be done after 15 rounds are fired through it (assuming full power loads ?). Realize a 308W match load will hold 42 gr +/- of powder which is a lot of carbon residue when burned and a good suppressor will contain most of that inside it. Same applies with cast bullets, especially lubed bulles. The lube and some lead alloy residue will build up quickly. I mostly shoot jacketed bullets (sonic) or copper coated Berry bullets (subsonic) but do occasionally shoot some lubed cast subsonic through the 30 cal suppressor.

I've also, over the years, put the 30 cal on several different caliber rifles; 22LR, 223/5.56, 6.5x55, 30-30 and 308W. With Sonic ammunition rom behind the gun the muzzle blast is attenuated pretty much the same. However, the sonic crack is considerably different as the diameter, shape and actual speed of the bullet all influence that. Down range past 50 - 100 yards the sound of the gun [mechanical noise and/or the precursor blast is not heard or is masked by the sonic crack.

The 5.56 suppressor is a quick detach requiring a special flash hider on the rifle. It is designed expressly for the AR. However, I have put such flash hiders on sever other 22 cal rifles [22LR, 22 Hornet and 223s] so I can easily switch the actual suppressor to those when wanted. The flash suppressors have the common 1/2x28 threads so they also go on and off easily and a thread protector put on the rifle w/o the suppressor on it. I just shoot jacketed bullets through the 5.56 suppressor with 5.56 ammunition. But also shoot some copper coated 22LRs and occasionally some plain lubed subsonic 22LRs through it. When on the 22Hornet I shoot a 225415 GC'd and lightly coated with LLA for my subsonic load. Had it for a few years now and it doesn't seem to be carboning up too badly. If it does I'll send it back to the manufacturer for cleaning/refurb.

Dedicated 22LR suppressors are a different story and many can be readily disassembled for cleaning. How often I don't know but a friend of mine recently shot 500 rounds of CCI 1070 fps "Target" 22LR through his and it came apart fairly easy for cleaning.

My 45 ACP suppressor can be readily disassembled for cleaning. I use it on a M1911 and my M98 Mauser w/Rhineland conversion. With jacketed bullets I've shot as many as 300 rounds w/o cleaning and it came apart easily. Factory recommends cleaning every 500 rounds of jacketed ammunition. With Lubet or PC'd cast bullets I clean every 100 rounds and the lead, lube and PC fouling build up is there. I've also put the 45 cal suppressor on a 9mm pistol and with subsonic ammunition it sounded pretty much the same as with 45 ACP. However, the recoil impulse was not sufficient for reliable functioning. A different spring in the suppressor would be need for the switch to 9mm Not sure if that applies to all but reading of other such on forums it appears to be a common problem.

Suppressors are the only way to go, especially to save hearing and they add a whole new dimension to pleasurable shooting.

[Kestrel4k]

Having a half-dozen or so, I cannot overemphasize the importance of minimizing FRP - "first round 'pop'"; this being the hardest metric to chart, so you sort of have to go over reviews.
One of my suppressors is a monocore that is particularly bad in this respect - and being paired with a dedicated 35-cal hunting rifle, so really not a very good application.

And yes, I know & have tried the various methods for attenuating this; I still find FRP particularly annoying, and wish I had went a different route for that particular one.

[Kestrel4k]

Since you mentioned 9mm; the best thing I've found about the relatively-lightweight, aluminum-bodied handgun suppressors, is that they can be fantastic for a completely different role:


9mm handgun => .357 Mag rifle (16" bbl minimum)
45ACP handgun => .44Mag rifle (16" bbl minimum)

Am not flying by the seat of my pants here; simply contacting the manufacturer can determine if the above application(s) are within their design envelopes.

With only 12oz up front & the stout Boyds laminate stock, the balance on this particular 44Mag rifle is /perfect/:
323933

And here's a sub-11oz 9mm handgun suppressor on an M1 Carbine:
323934

[Leadmad]

I've got several suppressors on a variety of calibers a couple are sealed and have been in use for many years and with the exception of the 223 the 30 cals have shot a bunch of cast and jacketed with no ill effects from not being cleaned that I can tell, I also have 2 DPT suppressors one on a 30/06 and the other a 450 bushmaster cal Remington 783, both shoot a mixture of cast and jacketed and as the DPT is almost fully able to be disassembled I do clean it after use but there is very little residue its mostly to spray some wd40 inside and grease the threads of the baffles. Unless there is a very high round count, I wouldn't worry about a sealed suppressor clogging up.

http://www.dpt.co.nz/

Cheers

[dverna]

Since you mentioned 9mm; the best thing I've found about the relatively-lightweight, aluminum-bodied handgun suppressors, is that they can be fantastic for a completely different role:


9mm handgun => .357 Mag rifle (16" bbl minimum)
45ACP handgun => .44Mag rifle (16" bbl minimum)

Am not flying by the seat of my pants here; simply contacting the manufacturer can determine if the above application(s) are within their design envelopes.

With only 12oz up front & the stout Boyds laminate stock, the balance on this particular 44Mag rifle is /perfect/:
323933

And here's a sub-11oz 9mm handgun suppressor on an M1 Carbine:
323934

I am looking at the 9mm suppressor on a carbine not a pistol so your post was interesting.

I figured if the balance was too far off, I could add lead to the butt stock.

One question for you. On the .357 Mag, do you still need hearing protection for a say a 100 round range session?

[Kestrel4k]

[...] One question for you. On the .357 Mag, do you still need hearing protection for a say a 100 round range session?
Subsonic handloads, borderline. Some of the .38Spl factory loads were actually pretty loud - even through a suppressor.
Supersonic .357Mag - "What?" :-/

I have a pic of my 77/357 somewhere, but it pretty much looks like that 77/44 so didn't bother looking.

The first two things I learned about shooting 38Spl from a rifle; factory loads can still be pretty loud, and they /really/ suck for accuracy - and that's almost across the board. The exception was Federal American Eagle 158gr LRN, BTW - all commercial jacketed were /terrible/ for accuracy.
It's good to have that capability (i.e. cheap subsonic factory ammo), but the greatest handloading improvement I've ever gotten was with that rifle. :-/

What's great is being able to use .38Spl brass however; on average I was able to obtain better subsonic accuracy across multiple powder choices, due to the decreased case capacity.

Although the pic below is a 230gr Wadcutter in 357Mag brass (to ensure feeding for worst-case), I did get slightly better subsonic accuracy using 38Spl brass, for example.
323943

[243winxb]

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/silencers-why.928232/page-3#post-12844971

See links in post # 74 .


Here is one- https://www.ssusa.org/content/translating-suppressors/#:~:text=Typically%2C%20however%2C%20manufacturers %20claim%20a,same%20category%20as%20a%20jackhammer .

[elmacgyver0]

I initially was going to buy a Hybrid 46, but they were out of stock.
Then I found Silencer Central and saw a video of a lady hunter advertising a just released suppressor, the Banish 46 that is fully serviceable.
The Banish 46 can be used on about anything, I use mine on a .45-70 Gov.
I also bought the Neilson device for pistols.
My only complaint is it is a big honker to put on a pistol, it is built like a tank, it has to be in order to handle things like .338 Lapua, .300 Win Mag and the like.
Since it is built almost entirely of titanium it is not as heavy as it looks, but it is still pretty hefty. It is a fantastic suppressor for rifles.
Since then, I also purchased the Banish 45, strictly a pistol suppressor, and a Banish 22 for rimfire.
All my suppressors are serviceable which in my opinion is a big deal.
I figured if I was going to buy a 200-dollar permission slip and wait the long waiting period, I wasn't going to go cheap.
If you decide to go with a non-serviceable unit, weigh it before you ever shoot it, then when you clean it, you will know how effective you were.
If you clean your guns, you probably should be cleaning your suppressor also.

[buyobuyo]

I do not have the experience answers to your questions. I would suggest strongly that your purchase your suppressor from a big company with a long-term history of great customer support and will repair your suppressor if needed. I purchased a rebel suppressor and had a baffle strike, rebel is no longer in business and now I have an expensive paper weight that I had to wait 9 months to get and cost me 200 for a tax stamp.

You might want to look into Griffin Armament's Red Cross program.

https://www.griffinarmament.com/promotions/griffin-red-cross/

[Rapier]

Really suggest that you do not buy a can that can not be disassembled for cleaning.
My 358 can is as quiet with 223s as is the 6.5 can. No can has holes at the diameter shown, all are larger to prevent bullet strikes, just to start with.
I bought one can, a Liberty Torch QC can. After that I have never bought another can, all of my cans are Form I, me built cans. 1/4 the time wait, easy file online, as the maker you can modify or repair, etc. If you can repair a bathroom sink you can build a can. My corporation is the owner / manufacturer of the cans. On NFA items you need to have a means to transfer ownership in event of death or disability. Otherwise the NFA item must be turned in, usual vehicle for transfer is a LLC, Trust, Corporation, etc.
I no longer use a quick connect setup, I prefer and just use a straight direct thread on system as being the actual KISS system.
First shot is not quiet, regardless of the Jollywood movies, that use only air guns, to make a puff, puff, noise. The action makes noise, the bullet impact, is loud, when everything is very quiet, similar to a 22 rifle with a standard velocity round being shot.

Ths is my latest can, it is an 8" titanium can, anodized, using baking soda, distilled water, an aluminum strip and five 9 volt batteries in series.

[JimB..]

First rule of suppressors is to get one for 22lr, it’ll put a grin on your face every time.
I lost interest in a 223 can years ago because they were absolutely not hearing safe, not sure if that has changed.
I shoot 38 spcl, 9mm and 300blk through a Liberty can, both pistol and carbine are hearing safe.

[dverna]

Thanks guys. I am learning a lot.

I dismissed a .22LR can early on because I have stopped plinking much with .22's in a rifle. That is what the PCPs are now used for. Our .22 pistols are target guns so adding a can does not make sense. BTW, one (of many) advantages of the PCPs is no hearing protection.

Jim B, your info on the .223 can is germane. I hope to do a lot more .223 shooting this year, and if I still need to wear muffs/plugs a can loses its appeal. Hoping others will chime in who have thoughts/experience on that. If the same can will work on the 9mm carbine, then it will be worth doing.

I acquired a 147 gr mold for the 9mm and hope to get a subsonic load for it. Ballistics by the Inch shows I should be able to get there with a 16.5" barrel. My preferred bullet is the 124 gr XTP but plinking with a subsonic would be a lot of fun if we can ditch the muffs.

Rapier, I will give some thought on making my own. I have a lathe and it would be a neat project if I can do it legally. If I go that route, I will PM you. I have already decided on a trust to own the can so it can be easily transferred. That was good advice for others looking at this.

[rockrat]

Take this with a grain of salt, so to speak. I was told by others that right now, BATFE frowns on the self-built cans because of the fuel filter/flashlight/solvent traps and that if you do build one, it would be a good idea to send in a pic of your lathe with your application, to show that you are actually going to build you own can.

[Larry Gibson]

My Gemtech 5.56/223 suppressor is hearing safe with the exception of if used indoors. Outside or at the range (even with an over head cover) all you hear of the sonic crack is it going away from you. The crack is somewhat like a standard velocity 22LR but it does not ring your ears. I've measured the decibels and the decibel reading is less than 22LR. I shoot a Contender carbine and my AR all the time with it on and hearing protection is not needed. Might pick up more noise if at a range with overhead baffles in front of the line but that is the sound echoing off those.

With sub sonic we must remember the larger the diameter, the blunter the nose the louder the noise will be. Also remember it is the speed of the air moving over/around the bullet ogive that determines when it will 'crack. It is not the velocity of the bullet but rather the velocity of that air moving around the bullet nose. Also, sub sonic ammunition in handguns may exceed the when fired out of a rifle and can "crack". Most subsonic 300 BO load in 10" +/- barrels will "crack" when fired in 16 -20" barrels because of the velocity increase. Some 45 ACP with pushes 900 - 1000 fps out of my 5" M1911 and is very quiet with the suppressor on it will "crack" when fired in my 16 1/2" Rhineland conversion barrel because of the velocity increase.

To minimize "FRP - "first round 'pop'" with M21s with Sionics suppressors on them just before departing we would fire a round, leave the next round chambered and put a small "patch" of 90 mile an hour tape across the suppressor muzzle. That works well as the oxygen and cleaning solvent residue (the cause of FRP) is burned off inside the suppressor with that first shot. I have done the same when hunting with my own 5.56 and 30 cal suppressors and it seems to greatly minimize the FRP.

[dverna]

My Gemtech 5.56/223 suppressor is hearing safe with the exception of if used indoors. Outside or at the range (even with an over head cover) all you hear of the sonic crack is it going away from you. The crack is somewhat like a standard velocity 22LR but it does not ring your ears. I've measured the decibels and the decibel reading is less than 22LR. I shoot a Contender carbine and my AR all the time with it on and hearing protection is not needed. Might pick up more noise if at a range with overhead baffles in front of the line but that is the sound echoing off those.

With sub sonic we must remember the larger the diameter, the blunter the nose the louder the noise will be. Also remember it is the speed of the air moving over/around the bullet ogive that determines when it will 'crack. It is not the velocity of the bullet but rather the velocity of that air moving around the bullet nose. Also, sub sonic ammunition in handguns may exceed the when fired out of a rifle and can "crack". Most subsonic 300 BO load in 10" +/- barrels will "crack" when fired in 16 -20" barrels because of the velocity increase. Some 45 ACP with pushes 900 - 1000 fps out of my 5" M1911 and is very quiet with the suppressor on it will "crack" when fired in my 16 1/2" Rhineland conversion barrel because of the velocity increase.

To minimize "FRP - "first round 'pop'" with M21s with Sionics suppressors on them just before departing we would fire a round, leave the next round chambered and put a small "patch" of 90 mile an hour tape across the suppressor muzzle. That works well as the oxygen and cleaning solvent residue (the cause of FRP) is burned off inside the suppressor with that first shot. I have done the same when hunting with my own 5.56 and 30 cal suppressors and it seems to greatly minimize the FRP.

Excellent info! Thanks

[Barry54]

My Gemtech 5.56/223 suppressor is hearing safe with the exception of if used indoors. Outside or at the range (even with an over head cover) all you hear of the sonic crack is it going away from you. The crack is somewhat like a standard velocity 22LR but it does not ring your ears. I've measured the decibels and the decibel reading is less than 22LR. I shoot a Contender carbine and my AR all the time with it on and hearing protection is not needed. Might pick up more noise if at a range with overhead baffles in front of the line but that is the sound echoing off those.

With sub sonic we must remember the larger the diameter, the blunter the nose the louder the noise will be. Also remember it is the speed of the air moving over/around the bullet ogive that determines when it will 'crack. It is not the velocity of the bullet but rather the velocity of that air moving around the bullet nose. Also, sub sonic ammunition in handguns may exceed the when fired out of a rifle and can "crack". Most subsonic 300 BO load in 10" +/- barrels will "crack" when fired in 16 -20" barrels because of the velocity increase. Some 45 ACP with pushes 900 - 1000 fps out of my 5" M1911 and is very quiet with the suppressor on it will "crack" when fired in my 16 1/2" Rhineland conversion barrel because of the velocity increase.

To minimize "FRP - "first round 'pop'" with M21s with Sionics suppressors on them just before departing we would fire a round, leave the next round chambered and put a small "patch" of 90 mile an hour tape across the suppressor muzzle. That works well as the oxygen and cleaning solvent residue (the cause of FRP) is burned off inside the suppressor with that first shot. I have done the same when hunting with my own 5.56 and 30 cal suppressors and it seems to greatly minimize the FRP.

Has anyone tried a purge with aerosol keyboard duster or another inert gas for eliminating first round pop?

[steve urquell]

Has anyone tried a purge with aerosol keyboard duster or another inert gas for eliminating first round pop?

It's not that big of a deal. This is a great vid of my 9mm with YHM Sidewinder going thru 1st round pop to the next rounds. What I find interesting is to watch the fire come out of the suppressor when it happens. The increased noise is not something I feel the need to address.
https://youtu.be/dhLWoFPS6Ck?feature=shared

[elmacgyver0]

One thing I have learned using my Banish 46 on a 9mm pistol when shooting cast is some of the lead vaporizes and then condenses on the baffles.
If you plan on using cast through a suppressor it is advisable to have a serviceable can. You really do not have a clue how much a can needs cleaning unless you can take it apart.
Powder coating greatly reduces the amount of cleaning required.
There is a reason the suppressor manufacturers say to only use jacketed ammo. I'm not one to follow this myself, that is why I only have serviceable units.

[steve urquell]

One thing I have learned using my Banish 46 on a 9mm pistol when shooting cast is some of the lead vaporizes and then condenses on the baffles.
If you plan on using cast through a suppressor it is advisable to have a serviceable can. You really do not have a clue how much a can needs cleaning unless you can take it apart.
Powder coating greatly reduces the amount of cleaning required.
There is a reason the suppressor manufacturers say to only use jacketed ammo. I'm not one to follow this myself, that is why I only have serviceable units.

I had been shooting cast PC out of mine. Cleaned it this past weekend and the blast baffle, chamber and first 3 baffles are lead plated. No more cast out of mine.

[Plate plinker]

Most suppressors will perform well enough for most of us. The concern that I would focus on is how much the unit weighs, which is dictated by material and therefore price. How much heat the unit can withstand is also an issue worthy of some attention. I have a 30 calibre rifle can that is machine gun rated but is rather heavy. The pistol can is a 45 call but you can shoot 9mm or 40 through it and it works just fine.
Best wishes with the search.

[Milky Duck]

right ho....I own and use quite a few different suppressors DPT is arguable one of our biggest makers of them and theirs are awesome...they are easy to take apart and clean..or add more baffles or if high volume stick in a stainless steel blast baffle first up from muzzle.... they take a 270w with full power loads sound down to ABOUT same as a 22magnum the muzzle forward one I now own is as good as the over barrel I did have before.
I also have a muzzle forward waitaki engineeering can...its heavy and solid and they stood up to high volume shooting well.
also own a couple of gunworks spartan suppressors..they are now older technology and dont come apart howeveer they are a great unit..I had a 7mm over barrel DPT and over barrel spartan..they both went forward the same amount..the spartan was skinnier and came further back over barrel thus it BALANCED better in my hands..
I dinged the end of two suppressors using cast boolits that may have been of lesser quality looking back.... not ideal at all.
used to share single suppressor between the 270 and a 7.62x39mm no issues.
with subsonic rounds they are very quiet..but its a labour of love/hate to use them...heaps fun for plinking but for bigger game than rabbits,your shot placement MUST be spot on..I still carry a few in .223 and 222 for pests and finishing off shots at pointblank range...
your hearing will thankyou for it
now with a .22lr try subsonic ammunition in your rifle and might just decide to not bother with suppressor for that....its quiet enough for me..forsure suppressed is better for multiple targets who spook and run away but for the ones n twos we normally see I find no need anymore.

[Barry54]

@steve urquell Thanks for the video!

Must be great to fire test loads into a bullet trap in your shop in your pajamas!

The first round did seem louder, but the brass seemed loud dancing on the floor too. Probably much easier to distinguish in real life vs a video.

[JimB..]

I do not believe that unsuppressed SV or Subsonic 22lr is hearing safe even from a 16” barrel. A few shots won’t make your ears ring, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t causing damage. Goal is to get exposure down to 80db or less. I can get there suppressing 22, 9mm, 38spcl and 300blk but I haven’t got a 223/556 hearing safe solution.

[Larry Gibson]

It's not that big of a deal. This is a great vid of my 9mm with YHM Sidewinder going thru 1st round pop to the next rounds. What I find interesting is to watch the fire come out of the suppressor when it happens. The increased noise is not something I feel the need to address.
https://youtu.be/dhLWoFPS6Ck?feature=shared

Excellent video demonstrating the FRP. Note the muzzle flash with the first round and louder report. Second report is noticeably less with no FRP, and the report is then consistent after round 3.

[HWooldridge]

I assume the FRP effect is similar to what shielding gas does inside a MIG/TIG welding hose, where you can purge the line when starting to weld but still have some gas leftover after taking a break...

Sounds like the initial shot burns the O2 and any other combustibles, then it takes a while for the unit to backfill with ambient atmosphere again. A target session may never see a second pop but shots on a hunt could be hours apart - does a suppressor repeat the ignition event after some time period?

[dverna]

I assume the FRP effect is similar to what shielding gas does inside a MIG/TIG welding hose, where you can purge the line when starting to weld but still have some gas leftover after taking a break...

Sounds like the initial shot burns the O2 and any other combustibles, then it takes a while for the unit to backfill with ambient atmosphere again. A target session may never see a second pop but shots on a hunt could be hours apart - does a suppressor repeat the ignition event after some time period?

Based on what I have read, there will a FRP after about 30 minutes from last shot.

If you keep the action closed and put a piece of tape over the muzzle, no air can enter, but no idea who long that would be effective. That protocol would work for hunting but not on a range where a gun must be made safe.

[HWooldridge]

Based on what I have read, there will a FRP after about 30 minutes from last shot.

If you keep the action closed and put a piece of tape over the muzzle, no air can enter, but no idea who long that would be effective. That protocol would work for hunting but not on a range where a gun must be made safe.

That makes perfect sense. Thanks, Don.

[steve urquell]

@steve urquell Thanks for the video!

Must be great to fire test loads into a bullet trap in your shop in your pajamas!

The first round did seem louder, but the brass seemed loud dancing on the floor too. Probably much easier to distinguish in real life vs a video.
Thanks. I can shoot on my 100 yard range out of my garage so that is what you are seeing. What you are hearing is brass on the floor but also the bullet hitting my steel swinging plates 15yds away.

[steve urquell]

Excellent video demonstrating the FRP. Note the muzzle flash with the first round and louder report. Second report is noticeably less with no FRP, and the report is then consistent after round 3.

Thanks. I've done several vids comparing the shots to staplers and flyswatters so people can get an idea of actual sounds from suppressed fire.

Here is 9mm AR pistol vs stapler.
https://youtube.com/shorts/FqsxZeAN4Iw?feature=shared

.22LR vs flyswatter. Actually had to lighten the swat to a weak hit for the sound to be close.
https://youtube.com/shorts/pd1yKIlvzmI?feature=shared

3 different pistols. Note the loudness of the brass hitting the concrete vs the shots.
https://youtube.com/shorts/_qys6K8ia9c?feature=shared

This one compares pistol action noise to loads that do not cycle the action.
https://youtu.be/Hm3eE8AMREs?feature=shared

[steve urquell]

I had checked my suppressor after firing a bunch of 9mm cast PC with Smoke's powder. It was heavily leaded. I found one of the boolits I had loaded and fired. Loads were very mild 2.2gr of TiteWad at 800fps.

Base is pitted and eroded. Even that tiny charge blew the PC off and lead is vaporized and accumulates on the baffles. I really hate it because I had some sweet PC loads worked up for my suppressed guns. Only plated and jacketed bullets with base covered from now own for me since my suppressor has aluminum baffles.

A suppressor with SS baffles would not have a problem since they can be aggressively cleaned. Sadly I cannot do that with my alum core suppressor. Also I do not trust that gaschecks would not come off inside the suppressor. That would destroy the baffles. Not worth the risk to me.


324107
324108

[elmacgyver0]

It is not a lot of fun cleaning condensed lead from suppressor baffles. Breakthrough suppressor cleaner makes the job a lot easier, but it is best not to let it happen in the first place.
I have had luck with my powder coated bullets, but I do not know what the velocity was. Also powder selection could have a large influence as well as method of powder coating and PC powder.
There are a lot of variables. Once you find the right combination, I think cast should work fine.
Something is wrong with your powder coating if it is coming of the bullet like that.
The whole idea of powder coating is to prevent that or there is no point in doing it.
In using a suppressor, it really shows up any flaws in powder coating.
If it does that to your suppressor, think what it does to your lungs.
Makes you think twice about shooting lubed bullets in indoor ranges.
I don't have a lot of use for lubed bullets anymore, I never thought lead would vaporize like that by shooting.

[kenton]

It looks like the PC is getting dissolved by the powder sitting on it. You could try storing a few bullet up and a few bullet down for a few months and see if you get that pattern and to see if there is a difference.

[elmacgyver0]

It looks like the PC is getting dissolved by the powder sitting on it. You could try storing a few bullet up and a few bullet down for a few months and see if you get that pattern and to see if there is a difference.

Good idea.
Perhaps put some various powders in pill bottles with a powder coated boolit in each.
Also, it looked like the coating failed on the side of the bullet, which might indicate improper curing.

[steve urquell]

The boolit above did not have powder on it for more than a few hours at most. I was testing different loads and walking out to my range and firing them. These were coated by my FIL so I am not familiar with his exact coating details. That boolit went thru my target backer and was on the ground so it could have scraped along a rock as well.

In the interest of TiteWad reactivity I pulled a cartridge down that has had TiteWad on the boolit for weeks. The coating was not soft--I could not scratch it off with a thumbnail. It looks similar to a boolit which has not been loaded. He coats with them standing up in the oven thus the uneven base PC.

Loaded pull down:
324124

Not loaded:
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Overall I don't wish to continue pursuing shooting PC boolits thru my suppressor. I do plan on getting some breakthrough cleaner. Just waiting for my Amazon CC points to show up on my account.

Also I would say to anyone saying "You're doing it wrong" to catch some of your boolits and check the bases.

[elmacgyver0]

I am planning on using plated bullets for most of my suppressor shooting but have not totally given up on cast for some applications in my suppressor.

[steve urquell]

I am planning on using plated bullets for most of my suppressor shooting but have not totally given up on cast for some applications in my suppressor.

I've had good luck with Berry's and Xtreme plateds over the years probably firing >5,000 thru my YHM can. I'm really bummed by the failure of PC here. I looked up high temp PC coating and found this which pretty much says the coating just can't take a lot of heat. I'm sure the combustion of the powder charge is above 400F. That article was specifically about high temp coating.
https://www.keystonekoating.com/blog/heat-resistant-powder-coatings/
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[steve urquell]

Plated Xtreme 147gr RN and 124gr FN. These have hit rocks. That plating is really tough. Berry's look similar after hitting rocks.

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[Gunslinger1911]

Great thread !!
I just recently (finally !) got my cans from a Aug '23 application.
An Occulus .22 and a Huxwrx .45.
Both can be taken apart for cleaning.
The .22 is amazing, hung it on a Ruger 22/45 - I think my PCP rifle is louder. I think the Occulus is known for no FRP.
I'll also try it on a AR22 and a Ruger Precision Rimfire.
Haven't shot the .45 yet, It will mostly live on an AR45 acp, but bought a threaded bbl for 1911 for kicks.
I'll be applying for an SBR stamp for the AR; I figure a 7" bbl, 9 inch can fitting inside the hand guard will be just about perfect.
I'm hoping I can get PC to work on the 45 - don't want the have "different" ammo for can usage.
Maybe the low pressure of the 45acp will give me some slack.
Worst case, take it apart and try a sonic cleaner.
I'll throw out some updates as the weather gets better.

[dverna]

There are mix of opinions and outcomes wrt to shooting cast bullets through a suppressor.

In my case, the only gun that will see a lot of cast bullets is a 9mm carbine. I do not PC and prefer not to go that route. I have no issue with changing lubes and can dedicate a sizer to the "best" lube for shooting suppressed.

I would like to shoot lubed cast bullets (92-2-6 alloy) out of the 9mm carbine. If I need to clean the suppressor on the 9mm every 100 rounds I could live with it but would prefer to go 250 rounds. I will be trying the Magma 147 gr FP mold and it should be sub-sonic.

If there is anyone shooting cast 9mm through a suppressor, I would appreciate knowing:
Which make and model suppressor you are using?
How often you clean the unit?
What lube are you using?

The suppressor for the .223 looks less complicated. After reading the posts, I gather a .30 cal will do a decent job even on the .223. That allows me to put the suppressor on the .308 down the road. I will get a unit that can be disassembled for cleaning, even though it seems that may not necessary. I will not be shooting cast bullets in the .223.

Again, I appreciate the comments and suggestions.

[Finster101]

I shoot powder coated boolets through my .30 cal suppressor all the time with no issues at all.

[DaleT]

I recently started casting and loading 147 grain 9mm subs to be used in a 16" carbine. The data in the manuals for sub 9mm are for pistol and when I started using that data ( projected velocity were around 900 fps), using them in my carbine they were approaching 1100 fps, just over the subsonic speed. I dummied them down and they are now hearing safe. Forgot to mention that particular can is an Osprey 45.
Personal opinion here is if you own a 22 pistol you gotta have a can for it, just so cool to go out plinking and not have to wear ear pro.
I use my Sandman S for 300 BlkOut with a 230 cast and powdercoated bullet, of which I had to tweak that load from when I started shooting Berry's fmj's, the powdercoated bullet shoots faster but after adjusting the load it is just a pop, I have not tried the 300 supersonics without protection as I suspect because of the speed it's not going to be "quiet".
I did buy the .22 end cap for the Sandman to use on my 556/223 but it is not hearing safe shooting a full power load but I knew that and just wanted to quiet the muzzle report down.

another edit after reading through more posts, not sure if it was mentioned somewhere else , but my Osprey instructions suggest using about a teaspoon of water poured into the can greatly reduces FRP and it does work.

[dverna]

Dale T, are you using lube or PC? If lube, what type? How often do you need to take the can apart to clean it?

Thanks

[DaleT]

Don, I am using PCed . I have just finished (within the last week or so) working up my load for the 147's and only have about 50 rounds through the Osprey, which does not come apart for cleaning so I can't answer as to that part of your question. One of my loads shot a 5 shot group of about 2" but was just a little bit above subsonic. Dropping my powder charge by .1 ( Lyman 1200 scale) put them below subsonic but also opened my group by almost 2" !
Hope that helps... some :)