This is interesting

[dverna]

https://youtu.be/izvdO-zdlKg

An EV for $12k with a range of over 200 miles, 4 wheel disc brakes and cruise control. I cannot buy a UTV for that.

If they come to the US they will need to pass safety standards so the price might be $14k or so. I would seriously consider one as a "disposable" car for running to town/church/visiting friends etc.

The Chinese are going to eat our lunch.

[barnabus]

https://youtu.be/izvdO-zdlKg

An EV for $12k with a range of over 200 miles, 4 wheel disc brakes and cruise control. I cannot buy a UTV for that.

If they come to the US they will need to pass safety standards so the price might be $14k or so. I would seriously consider one as a "disposable" car for running to town/church/visiting friends etc.

The Chinese are going to eat our lunch.

if you buy one thats helping them eat our lunch

[GhostHawk]

Actually at that price I'd consider buying one for a spring/summer/fall car.

I do not think it would do well overnight in -30 weather. But the way things are who knows when or if we will see those days again.

Even if I had to park it for winter, it could be a good value. Anyone know anything about maintance schedule?

[William Yanda]

I am amazed by how often Henry Ford's Model A has been reinvented.

[dverna]

if you buy one thats helping them eat our lunch

I thought about that. But I have done it before. Bought 100k of those commie Tula and Wolf primers when they were less than $20/k. I have no regrets.

I am not a fan of Mossin's, SKS's, AK's etc. and never bought any, but it seems a lot of Americans bought them. I wonder why they wanted commie crap when they could have had American made weapons?

BTW, my company took a 6 month strike from the autoworkers union, so I do not have love for the organization.

I am not a fan of EVs but... BYD is looking at building a plant in Mexico. That means cars imported into the US will qualify for the $7500 tax credit. If it comes in at $15k and the Chinese have paid off enough of "our leaders" to maintain the $7500 credit, we have a $7500 car that does not need gas and oil. I will be getting one if that happens. 90% of my driving is trips under 75 miles. Even in Michigan winters, a 200+ mile battery that degrades 35% will be adequate to meet my needs.

You are right. Buying one will help the Chinese. But I do not care that much. Heck, if more people cared, they would not shop at Wally World.

I suspect with Trump in office, the $7500 EV credit will be nixed, and if not, it will be nixed for Chinese EVs. But even at $15k, it is interesting option for a second car that will cost $.03/mile to operate.

[Bmi48219]

Nice but by the time that vehicle passes US standards it’ll be closer to 18K. If reliable it would be great for short excursions. For a lot of us it won’t be able to replace an IC vehicle. True that most of my travels are less than twenty miles each way. But often times I’m driving 100 plus miles each way. I’m better off with one vehicle for all my travels instead of a local and long distance vehicles to insure, plate and park.
If you look on the internet there are several non-street-legal austere Chinese vehicles available in the $5,000 price range. Shipping to CONUS doubles that figure. Twelve thousand is wishful thinking for something like the vehicle in this link.

[HWooldridge]

I am amazed by how often Henry Ford's Model A has been reinvented.

Exactly my thoughts. Ford kept it simple and built millions of autos, then he applied the same concept to tractors. There are way too many gadgets on new vehicles, which drives up the price. Too bad we can't get a basic half or three-quarter ton pickup truck with roll up windows, and none of the WIFI crap that everyone wants to sell to the consumer. You can't even find standard shift vehicles much anymore - they are only in specialty vehicles. I saw a 2023 truck advertised the other day for $85K - really???

[georgerkahn]

Actually at that price I'd consider buying one for a spring/summer/fall car.

I do not think it would do well overnight in -30 weather. But the way things are who knows when or if we will see those days again.

Even if I had to park it for winter, it could be a good value. Anyone know anything about maintance schedule?

A nagging thought I have vis electric vehicles is two-fold. To wit, do *I* have enough power/amperage (e.g., service entrance -- I have a split 150A SE -- 150A each for house and shop) to ADD charging a vehicle? And, perhaps of greater interest to me is the cost of said vehicle charging. Even with my relatively low mpg Toyota truck, I can easily calculate/plan on petrol costs. On the other hand -- WHAT might be the "light bill", as we used to call it, be with an added vehicle charge added?
...just curious...

[Handloader109]

You CANNOT keep it simple. The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has prevented that thanks to kalifornias EPA push for fuel, and then DOT foe safety. Obviously nothing fuel in the EVs, but lots of safety stuff. Airbags, side door impact front and rear bumpers, and all crash certification. 12k goes to at least 16k probably 18k. Which is still a very cheap car. Figure it'll last 6 years or maybe 100k miles before battery is at half capacity. Mexico...... yep, no import duty, China direct is still 25% (one of the few Trump items that Biden didn't reverse)

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[dverna]

The Chinese do not need to defeat us militarily. They will corrupt our government (as has been shown), infiltrate our universities, and control critical parts of our economy we have abandoned (like drug manufacturing). Most of the stuff we see in Wally World comes from China.

I recently purchased a SSQA plate to make a custom attachment, and it was 1/3 the price of anything made in the USA. The welds were OK but not great. The owner of the shop told me I got a great deal. He did a bit of extra welding for a few dollars. I saved about $300

I don't like what is happening but unless we are prepared to drastically lower our standard of living, the Chinese will not be stopped easily.

If I were to buy something like this, I would not be proud of it, but it would do what I need a second car to do. At 73 I do not need a "chick magnet". $300 year for electricity for 10k miles of running around is cheap. Fuel for 10,000 miles on the F150 costs would be over $1500. If the EV lasts 10 years, I will have saved $12k in fuel, $1000 in oil changes and avoided putting on 100k miles on a $50-60k truck.

[Finster101]

To each their own. I am 100% GM certified in EVs. I will not be owning one anytime soon.

[czgunner]

To each their own. I am 100% GM certified in EVs. I will not be owning one anytime soon.Yep. I'm a Toyota T-Ten trained tech and only own gassers.

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[country gent]

The chinese know that if they undersell long enough the american companies will close and then they can make up the losses. Small shops do this to get their foot in the doors of big companies Bid a few parts low then get on the select supplier list and they are home free. China and the asian nations see this and are working it to their advantage. Once they lower US production to where they cant make what is needed they can start upping prices and also gain control of the country. You need cars,appliances, light bulbs,ect ect, well we need ??????

[Finster101]

Another thing to consider, what is the dealership network going to be like?

[dverna]

A nagging thought I have vis electric vehicles is two-fold. To wit, do *I* have enough power/amperage (e.g., service entrance -- I have a split 150A SE -- 150A each for house and shop) to ADD charging a vehicle? And, perhaps of greater interest to me is the cost of said vehicle charging. Even with my relatively low mpg Toyota truck, I can easily calculate/plan on petrol costs. On the other hand -- WHAT might be the "light bill", as we used to call it, be with an added vehicle charge added?
...just curious...

George,

EV's like a Tesla use about .3 kWhr/mile. My cost for power is $.133/kWhr. Cost per mile would be $.04/mile. A 30 mpg car with $3.25 gas costs $.108/mile...2.5 times more.

As to power. It will depend on if you use a Level 1 (120 V - wall plug) or Level 2 (240V) charger. A level 1 charger adds about 4 miles of range per hour plugged in. The level 2 about 32 miles per hour. A level 2 charger would draw about 40 amps (same as an electric stove) but that is normally at night when you are not using much power anyway. Below is a home "smart charger" that can control charge rate and the time it operates.

https://www.amazon.com/Autel-Charger-Electric-Charging-Flexible/dp/B0CRDMXXL7/ref=sr_1_3?adgrpid=1341405910855418&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.EegpTvNHg4Mli6v3ka45qYpoHHIiXZrPq Y98ecWljUKe6X7SNx_oM5mgAoc8izOpVgMuZKDWsbpC0dt7ruV 9WIUyrPfqGkaRIB0jtoK7tJFBWWhb1324OjfwRXLYYoi1lOY79 vGW4O0G3W7Zu7nFboPCNoeIgKfkiyQGeG-iBM5b8NqUi9yjb_aSrt7o_hPvdRyu1BRxV1gBRX3-sdqwxmbqQCp9EGPjfeB-zqHTIB67lVzQC1qV0ostFHBAxTv01tjiscJ5Qpr4zWZ05aPEcG GT_38o1WrLhQ0BISX1HIU.R7uEHk8mW9LEhLX_gptrlVDyJgSZ J8--_tG4HS-pcNY&dib_tag=se&hvadid=83838155934483&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=102052&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-83838923160197%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=7575_10467770&keywords=autel+home+smart+electric+vehicle+ev+char ger&qid=1709048109&sr=8-3-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.c3015c4a-46bb-44b9-81a4-dc28e6d374b3&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

[dverna]

To each their own. I am 100% GM certified in EVs. I will not be owning one anytime soon.

Between 2013 and 2022 GM sold 1.1 million EV's worldwide
In 2022, BYD sold 1.6 million plug-in EVs and 1.4 million hybrids.

Maybe BYD has learned things GM and Ford still have to learn.

Birkshire-Hathaway bought 225 million shares of BYD in 2008. They do not hold any GM or Ford stock. Warren Buffet does not make many investment mistakes.

[Hannibal]

I don't know it to be fact, but I've read companies have wanted to build shipping hubs using EV trucks. When they requested the necessary power structure the local municipality thought it was either a hoax or a significant mistake. Seems the power required equals enough for a city of 200,000 or so.
I'm skeptical about such claims. However, until there are significant improvements made in the grid and more importantly a significant increase in power generation capacity the simple fact is switching over to EVs is not possible. Let alone practical.
Particularly if coal and natural gas fueled plants are going to keep being eliminated by EPA requirements.

Heat waves and cold snaps already result in power failures/blackouts/brown outs. If everyone starts plugging in 2 or 3 vehicles every day .......
You don't have to be an electrical engineer to see that's simply not possible. Nor will it be for decades.

[35 Rem]

I remember when the Yugo came out for a ridiculously low price lots of people were wanting one thinking that there was no way they could lose. Two years later when they had all broken down with no repair parts available there wasn't much enthusiasm left. I'd be cautious with something so cheap myself.

[nicholst55]

Nice but by the time that vehicle passes US standards it’ll be closer to 18K. If reliable it would be great for short excursions. For a lot of us it won’t be able to replace an IC vehicle. True that most of my travels are less than twenty miles each way. But often times I’m driving 100 plus miles each way. I’m better off with one vehicle for all my travels instead of a local and long distance vehicles to insure, plate and park.
If you look on the internet there are several non-street-legal austere Chinese vehicles available in the $5,000 price range. Shipping to CONUS doubles that figure. Twelve thousand is wishful thinking for something like the vehicle in this link.

I disagree. The dealership will sell them for full MSRP plus an additional $5K or so as 'additional dealership profit margin,' or some such crap. Kinda like they do now with extremely popular cars and trucks.

[Winger Ed.]

The chinese know that if they undersell long enough the american companies will close and then they can make up the losses. ?

Years ago, American industry was more or less being strangled by the EPA, US tax laws, favoritism for foreign companies,
labor laws and labor unions that wanted more money for less work.
Which translated into stuff being more expensive compared to imports.
At the time you'd see bumper stickers all over that read, "Buy American, the job you save may be your own".

I encounter people all the time moaning and groaning, crying the blues about the loss of American made products,
and the jobs that went with them.
I tell them that the next time they go running down to Harbor Freight or someplace else to load up on cheap Chines junk,
I tell them to ask their self if they are part of the solution, or part of the problem.

[Rickf1985]

I might be interested in a EV but not a BYD. Check out this search. "BYD car fires 2023". The company has a reputation for burning and exploding cars.

[.429&H110]

A one ton car with 100hp will go 100mph at 20mpg, I had one.
But it will be flattened by a texting housewife in a pickup truck.
So we need an armored personnel carrier, like a H2.
In Tucson we kill a couple of pedestrians a week.
"Pickup truck kills pedestrian" says the news. No it didn't, the driver did.
My favorite headline was "pedestrian hits bus". There's a new way to die for sure.

[MaryB]

You couldn't pay me to have one of those fires waiting to happen in my garage. I repair cell phones... replacing batteries is a 25% chance it is going to start on fire. I keep a bucket of sand next to the bench to drop it in and more sand to pour on top. I have a cell battery sitting on my repair desk that is swollen to 3 times normal thickness!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I hope everyone gets an EV, Chinese or American. It will tax our electrical grid an amazing amount, that no one has even dreamed of, and we won't be able to do anything that needs electricity, due to rolling blackouts and such. Then everyone will see all the lies we have been told about greenhouse gases from fossil fuels ...and hopefully those lying SOB's will be given what they are due.

[poppy42]

You can buy one. I wouldn’t take one if they gave it to me!

[Duckiller]

Recently went car shopping. Toyota dealer wanted $1500.00 for one vehicle and then $10,000-15000 over MSRP for another vehicle. Did not go back to that dealership. Did get a fancy Subaru Forester for less than MSRP. At 81 years old I have never bought a vehicle for MSRP or greater. Dealerships that want MSRP or more should be allowed to keep their vehicle for a very long time.

[Shawlerbrook]

When they start self combusting like those Chinese made scooters of a couple years ago it will not seem like such a great deal.

[dverna]

I am labeled an "EV hater" on another site I spend a lot of time on. EVs are not a realistic option where I live in northern MI. The only EV worth looking at is the Tesla, and the closest dealer is over 200 miles away. Not plunking down $40k+ on one to "save the planet".

EVs will capture a larger market share as time marches on. The technology is new and improving. Think about the performance of cordless drills and chainsaws years ago and what we have now. Are EVs ready for "prime time"? Not in my opinion.

30 years ago, when cordless drills were not that great, I had them. They were handy for certain tasks. I bought a cordless chainsaw four years ago and it is perfect for small jobs. I see that possibility with an EV in the next few years. An EV will not work as my only vehicle but could serve as a second car.

Ford is switching gears on EVs. They are looking at a low priced option for the masses. Their Lightning is a failure, as have been every EV offering of the legacy automakers. Ford is about 2 years away from launch and I hope they are successful. I would be interested at the right price and a decent warranty (10 year - 100,000 mile). But if they define "low price" as $30k, I will buy an ICE; unless Trump "loses", and the idiots do more stupid things with oil production and tax credits to kill ICE vehicles.

An EV will never replace my F250 in my lifetime, but I do not need an F250 for 90% of my needs. And the time is coming when I will not need an F250 at all.

[MrWolf]

Years ago, American industry was more or less being strangled by the EPA, US tax laws, favoritism for foreign companies,
labor laws and labor unions that wanted more money for less work.
Which translated into stuff being more expensive compared to imports.
At the time you'd see bumper stickers all over that read, "Buy American, the job you save may be your own".

I encounter people all the time moaning and groaning, crying the blues about the loss of American made products,
and the jobs that went with them.
I tell them that the next time they go running down to Harbor Freight or someplace else to load up on cheap Chines junk,
I tell them to ask their self if they are part of the solution, or part of the problem.

I try and buy American where I can. The purchase of the air tank for my pcp gun is a prime example. It cost me almost twice what a foreign made one would have cost. Now in this economy where I and my siblings are having to help support my Father who I on SS ( as am I with a disability pension), the extra disposable income is not there and IMMEDIATE costs become a concern. Of course this administration does not want to fix nor support the American citizens so folks are having to make hard choices. Buying American at a significant price increase or putting food on the table, etc.. No Brainerd as things are now even though it adds to hurting us.

[Winger Ed.]

When they start self combusting like those Chinese made scooters of a couple years ago it will not seem like such a great deal.

There's a couple of youtube channels about life and conditions in China.
They have problems over there with hair on 'em. You can see it,,, but the extent is hard to grasp.

It's not just Chinese scooters burning up-
There is lots of videos of their electric cars burning up in traffic, and fields with several thousands of them that
have been made, but not allowed to be sold. They're just out there rotting away.

The shop of company I retired from burned and was almost a total loss last year.
The fire started from the row of power screw drivers & drills that were charging up over night.
These tools were just the common rechargeable Milwaukee ones like ya get at Home Depot.

[waksupi]

A one ton car with 100hp will go 100mph at 20mpg, I had one.
But it will be flattened by a texting housewife in a pickup truck.
So we need an armored personnel carrier, like a H2.
In Tucson we kill a couple of pedestrians a week.
"Pickup truck kills pedestrian" says the news. No it didn't, the driver did.
My favorite headline was "pedestrian hits bus". There's a new way to die for sure.

"My favorite headline was "pedestrian hits bus".

I understand that one. I have had people walk into the side of my vehicles twice in parking lots while staring at their cell phones.

[Bmi48219]

…The dealership will sell them for full MSRP plus an additional $5K or so as 'additional dealership profit margin,' or some such crap. Kinda like they do now with extremely popular cars and trucks.

I’ve seen the extra charge tacked on the sticker as “Limited Availability Surcharge”.

[Rickf1985]

If they want to charge me that surcharge then I will help them out with their "Limited availability" by NOT purchasing one!!! With my income it is all moot point since ANY new car is well beyond anything I can afford.

[Handloader109]

Evs are economical as long as you never plug one into a charger away from your home. The chargers you pull out your credit card to pay for costs 3 to 10x what your household electricity costs. Which will put them way over a gas vehicle.
I still think it is funny, JB HUNT still owns 2 or 3 ev 18 wheelers in Kalifornia that have never pulled an ounce of freight. Still waiting on chargers to be APPROVED by the socialists out there. Had to buy the trucks before they could even place request. Over a year old

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[Rapier]

Gasoline trucks and Diesel farm equipment. Joe Biden needs a diaper change and he can shove the lame adz horse he rode in on up the lane.

[Bmi48219]

We purchased a home with a separate meter for the hot water tank. The cost per Kilowatt was substantially less than residential service. The caveat was they could remotely shut the meter off for several high power demand hours each day.
Something similar should be feasible for domestic EV charging stations.

[Rickf1985]

We purchased a home with a separate meter for the hot water tank. The cost per Kilowatt was substantially less than residential service. The caveat was they could remotely shut the meter off for several high power demand hours each day.
Something similar should be feasible for domestic EV charging stations.

That is fine but what if you work a night shift and charge during the day?

[kenton]

That is fine but what if you work a night shift and charge during the day?

Then don't opt for the separate meter. Or make sure you don't have to charge it between 11am and 7pm (usual peak summer hours).