H&R .22 hornet.... something isn't right

[Wolfdog91]

Finally got around to loading up some jacketed at having this thing on a all case diet and well..... It **** good one minute bad the other so I decided to bore scope it aaannnndd


https://youtu.be/lzpG6N35BYg?si=SWkffGL44CfZCEWY

[Hannibal]

So, what you are describing as chattering at the beginning of the borescope video is really typical for a factory button-rifled barrel. Every Savage factory barrel I've ever looked at is like that so it's nothing to be concerned about.
However, at about the 7 minute mark in the video you run into some really nasty pitting caused by corrosion. And the further you proceed down the barrel toward the chamber it just gets worse and worse. The copper fouling you are seeing is the result of jacketing material literally being torn from the jacket by the pitting. You literally have chunks of landing that are missing due to corrosion damage.
Bottom line is that barrel will never shoot well. No amount of cleaning, hand lapping or fire lapping is ever going to fix that.
And it's not H&Rs fault. The previous owner failed to correctly clean and protect the bore before storing.

There's a lesson to learn here everybody. Don't put your guns away dirty and use a product designed to protect your bore during storage. Otherwise, you'll end up with a barrel bore very similar to what is in the video.

Sorry for all the bad news. It's permanently damaged.

[Wolfdog91]

So, what you are describing as chattering at the beginning of the borescope video is really typical for a factory button-rifled barrel. Every Savage factory barrel I've ever looked at is like that so it's nothing to be concerned about.
However, at about the 7 minute mark in the video you run into some really nasty pitting caused by corrosion. And the further you proceed down the barrel toward the chamber it just gets worse and worse. The copper fouling you are seeing is the result of jacketing material literally being torn from the jacket by the pitting. You literally have chunks of landing that are missing due to corrosion damage.
Bottom line is that barrel will never shoot well. No amount of cleaning, hand lapping or fire lapping is ever going to fix that.
And it's not H&Rs fault. The previous owner failed to correctly clean and protect the bore before storing.

There's a lesson to learn here everybody. Don't put your guns away dirty and use a product designed to protect your bore during storage. Otherwise, you'll end up with a barrel bore very similar to what is in the video.

Sorry for all the bad news. It's permanently damaged.

Yeeepp....now the thing I'm curious about thou is why does it shoot good with cast ? Well at least less terrible then jacketed.

[John Taylor]

Looks like it's time for a new barrel. A liner will work but the fastest twist is 1 in 14". Most of the original barrels are 1 in 16" which will only stabilize the 45 grain bullets. Early Winchester used the same barrels as the 22 LR and can build up pressure if .224" bullets are used. The chatter marks you see are reamer marks. The pitting was probably rust.

[Hannibal]

Yeeepp....now the thing I'm curious about thou is why does it shoot good with cast ? Well at least less terrible then jacketed.

Well I'd suggest you try this. Get some good copper solvent and clean all the copper out. Verify that it's gone with your borescope.
Then load your cast loads up and shoot a 10-shot group. And shoot a 10 shot group on 3 different days. Then look at your targets and you'll see what you've really got. Be brutally honest. Don't call the outliers pulled shots unless you know a fact you messed up.
That will give you an honest picture of what that rifle and load combination is capable of.

[dverna]

Man that sucks.

BTW, I had the same gun and caliber and could not get it to shoot. I also purchased mine used. Sold it after a few months of frustration. I wonder now if my barrel was like yours?

[sukivel]

Man that sucks.

BTW, I had the same gun and caliber and could not get it to shoot. I also purchased mine used. Sold it after a few months of frustration. I wonder now if my barrel was like yours?

I too have the same rifle in .22 hornet and it doesn’t shoot good at all. I have not shot it much but it’s on my mind to figure it out this summer.

It shoots 15” groups at 50 yards with factory ammo. If I remember, the bore didn’t look bad. Has a new Vortex scope that shot good on another rifle.

I don’t know, we’ll see. It’s a family hand over so I want to keep it.


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[Tracy]

Subbed your channel. I have an H&R .22 Hornet too, but got mine specifically for shooting cast.

[eastbank]

its a money pit, dump it and move on.

[RustyReel]

its a money pit, dump it and move on.

By dump it I'm hoping he actually means toss it in the dumpster, don't pass it on to some other poor shooter to deal with.

[rockrat]

DON'T throw it in the dumpster. Someone could use it as a "stub" barrel for making another caliber..

[garandsrus]

Wow…. You might want to look at getting it re-bored to a different caliber. Jes is commonly recommended and does great work. Maybe go to 25-20.

[Fitz]

I had Jess do a Ruger#3 that was born a 223 that wouldn't shot for nothing came home a 350 Legend that shoots cast better than Jacketed and keeps all groups under 1in at a 100 yards.

[square butte]

Wow…. You might want to look at getting it re-bored to a different caliber. Jes is commonly recommended and does great work. Maybe go to 25-20.

I don't believe Jes will do .25 cal - I wish he would

[Hannibal]

Not really. H&Rs use an underlug design that doesn't allow for a set-back. Besides, at least 1/3 of the barrel is heavily damaged and the chamber end is where the damage is located.

Reply to post #11.

[Outpost75]

Depending upon when produced, H&R .22 Hornets in 1970s were produced from reject M16 barrels which didn' t gage up. Measure groove diameter and twist. If 12" twist that is a clue. May be as large as .225 because barrels were culled before chroming bore.

[dverna]

Depending upon when produced, H&R .22 Hornets in 1970s were produced from reject M16 barrels which didn' t gage up. Measure groove diameter and twist. If 12" twist that is a clue. May be as large as .225 because barrels were culled before chroming bore.

Insight I was not aware of.

There is so much knowledge on this forum!

[John Taylor]

you can always stub another barrel to it or line it. H&R also made the same rifle in 30-30. I heard of a few that were re-chambered to 223 and they still didn't shoot well. Problem is, it would cost more to fix than buying another rifle.

[Hannibal]

Depending upon when produced, H&R .22 Hornets in 1970s were produced from reject M16 barrels which didn' t gage up. Measure groove diameter and twist. If 12" twist that is a clue. May be as large as .225 because barrels were culled before chroming bore.

Interesting. Do you happen to recall the source of that information? I'd like to read about it just for my benefit. I'm kinda a nerd when it comes to stuff like that.

[Larry Gibson]

Wolfdog 91

What is the twist rate on that barrel?

[ulav8r]

Just now watched your video, that barrel is scrap.

Chop it back to a 3" stub and put a good barrel into it. The barrel could be turned to a slip fit and attached with Loctite stud lock, epoxy, or solder. Another way would be to thread the stub and have multiple barrels fitted.

[marlinman93]

I wouldn't waste any money on that barrel to fix it. I would replace it with a good NOS, or used barrel. Just going to cost more than the gun is worth to try to reline, or fix this barrel.
I usually tell guys to ignore things the bore scope reveals as even good barrels can look ugly under magnification. But this one isn't the normal chatter or machine marks, it's toast.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Depending upon when produced, H&R .22 Hornets in 1970s were produced from reject M16 barrels which didn' t gage up. Measure groove diameter and twist. If 12" twist that is a clue. May be as large as .225 because barrels were culled before chroming bore.

Outpost75, as I recall, H&R was given a contract by the DoD for 240K M16A1s (along with General Motors Hydramatic Transmission Division, also for 240K) in about 1969 as Colt couldn't deliver enough rifles to meet requirements. The GM rifles were some of the best ever made and H&R had their contract canceled due to ongoing QC issues.

[Electrod47]

I have the H&R .22 Hornet in Mannlicher stock. Bought new in 1977..yeah, its finicky with loads but, it only cost 69.00 bucks.

[nanuk]

I would clean it, then clean it, then clean it, then decopper it til ALL gone, then I would scope it again

Then if still ufly, I would firelap the piss outta it very aggressively

Keep scoping and firelapping till every thing is smooth

Then shoot it again for groups

One thing first though

When you chamber a round, do NOT just close it
You need to slam that puppy closed TIGHT

AND get that silly vipod off for now. It is in the totally wrong spot. Use a bag under the end of the forearm and try again with a bag under the receiver

But you NEED to close that action with authority

[Milky Duck]

take off bipod...fill daypack with clothing and rest on that...and STOP HUGGING YOURSELF and put your offhand on the forestock where it is supposed to be....the difference can be very surprising,lots of single shot rifles,and a few levers come to think of it are particular where you rest your off hand.....
22 hornets are a fickle beast at best of times..keep trying and sooner or later something will click into place.
look at your end game/use and that will tell you what size grouping is the absolute worst you can live with...

[Milky Duck]

the close with authority is same with a bakail they are shockers if action hasnt closed properly,I make sure to pull the lever down if it hasnt dropped completely on its own.

[Charlie Horse]

Thanks for posting this. Sorry about your gun. I wish I had a borescope.

My first CF rifle was a Savage 340 22 Hornet. That thing was a tack driver with any and everything I put in it. My 22 Hornet Contender will hit golf balls at 100 yards all day long. So don't blame the caliber.

[marlinman93]

Thanks for posting this. Sorry about your gun. I wish I had a borescope.

My first CF rifle was a Savage 340 22 Hornet. That thing was a tack driver with any and everything I put in it. My 22 Hornet Contender will hit golf balls at 100 yards all day long. So don't blame the caliber.

Bore scopes listed as "endoscopes" can be found all over Ebay for around $15 each. They plug into your computer, laptop, or phone and work very well. I have two of them and one stays at home, the other I use at gun shows with my phone to examine bores if they're sketchy.
I use a white patch ahead of mine to get a better image. Just push the patch with the scope, and back the scope up a few inches to examine the bore. They're 5mm so they fit .22 bores fine.
But be prepared to be shocked by some bores! Barrels that shoot really well often look scary under magnification, so don't let everything you see scare you.

[dverna]

take off bipod...fill daypack with clothing and rest on that...and STOP HUGGING YOURSELF and put your offhand on the forestock where it is supposed to be....the difference can be very surprising,lots of single shot rifles,and a few levers come to think of it are particular where you rest your off hand.....
22 hornets are a fickle beast at best of times..keep trying and sooner or later something will click into place.
look at your end game/use and that will tell you what size grouping is the absolute worst you can live with...

That must be why I could not get my .22 Hornet H&R to shoot well either. I "hug" like Wolf does. He seems to shoot well IMO. I have never seen him flinch and he stays in the gun after the shot.

I will stay with bolt action guns as they seem to like the way I hug them...LOL. My PCP's like to be hugged too! I know springers do like being hugged but will never own another one.

But what you say makes sense. I know others have commented about not resting lever actions directly on bags. I guess the H&R is just as picky.

[Texas by God]

For around the same price as a H&R/NEF rifle barrel on Ebay, JES reboring will provide you with a good shooting barrel in the caliber of your choice- provided that your choice begins at .338 caliber.
The above advice about closing the barrel tight and shooting position is spot on.
And make sure that the locking surfaces are clean and DRY.


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[nanuk]

Yup
Locking piece and shelf need to be clean and dry

[MT Gianni]

Another Handi problem was fixed by free floating the forend. Take a small, fairly thick O ring, and put it between the forend and the barrel then torque the screw to 45 inch lbs.

[dverna]

Another Handi problem was fixed by free floating the forend. Take a small, fairly thick O ring, and put it between the forend and the barrel then torque the screw to 45 inch lbs.

That would be worth trying!

[Wolfdog91]

take off bipod...fill daypack with clothing and rest on that...and STOP HUGGING YOURSELF and put your offhand on the forestock where it is supposed to be....the difference can be very surprising,lots of single shot rifles,and a few levers come to think of it are particular where you rest your off hand.....
22 hornets are a fickle beast at best of times..keep trying and sooner or later something will click into place.
look at your end game/use and that will tell you what size grouping is the absolute worst you can live with...

When you say hugging are you talking about how I have my non shooting hand under the rifle ? If so I'm not hugging in squeezing my rear bag

[Milky Duck]

yes...its jokingly referred to as "hugging yourself" by folks like myself who shoot oldschool with offhand on forstock..... some rifles like to be held differently EG the BLR likes off hand back towards magazine...some henry levers are the same..all to do with pressure on forestock.... what you are doing is based on benchrest doctrine....taken to extreme in a leadsled only your finger touches trigger.... the firearm has free recoil ... for some folks it works well..others not so much.... yo uhave nothing to loose but half a dozen round to try it and see. a sleeping bag in its cover under the stock,with your hand holding stock ontop isnt a bad way to do it.

[leadman]

I have a 1917 Enfield that had a barrel that was probably worse than this one. I used cast boolits that I had rolled between 2 steel plates starting with 200 grit lapping compound. Then I used either 300 or 400 grit, been awhile. While not a tack driver it will shoot 3" to 4" with cast or jacketed at 100 yards with military sights. You can track the progress in the bore with your borescope as you shoot. Try 3 to 5 shots then check.
Would not cost much to do and worth a try. Even valve lapping compound from an auto parts store will work. Be sure and clean it good when done.

[Milky Duck]

leadman...to put that into perspective,3-4" at a hundy was ALL the SMLE .303brits were expected to do from new..that was the spec. anything better than that is exceptional.....I believe the P14 which is a mauser type action did/could do, better but dont quote me on that one.

[leadman]

Milky Duck, the P14 and the 1917 are the same action but the P14 is in 303, 1917 is in 30-06. Not Mauser actions.
I do agree the 303 was normally as accurate as you stated. The US copy of the Mauser, the 1903 and 1903a3 were normally very accurate.
The H&R was not normally the most accurate but if the one in question here was mine I would spend the little bit it would cost to fire lap the barrel. If it doesn't work little has been lost and the OP can do whatever he feels is right for him.
Used Savage 110s and Axis rifles can be bought fairly cheap if a person looks around. I recently bought a 110 in 270 win for $200 and an Axis ii for $300 in 6.5 Creedmoor.

[Milky Duck]

sorry my bad...front locking,not mauser lol.... VS the rear locking lee enfields.

[nanuk]

..... I recently bought a 110 in 270 win for $200 and an Axis ii for $300 in 6.5 Creedmoor.

Good luck trying to find something like that up here....

ANYTHING that is shootable, regardless of condition brings more than that, and if in good condition, you'll be paying $500-600 easy

[Milky Duck]

any update on how you getting on with this rifle???

[wkndwarrior]

Love the video Wolfdog