Where did the full-size snubbies go?

[jdgabbard]

Recently I got to thinking it might be time to find another carry revolver. I used to carry a S&W 10 Airweight with a 2" barrel. That was a fantastic pistol, full size grip, short barrel, full 6-shot capacity. But back in the mid-2000s I ended up trading it offer and moving to J-Frame size revolvers. Opting for a little more concealability, at the expense of slightly less capacity and a smaller grip.

More recently, living in the Free State which I live in, I have decided I just don't care as much about concealability these days as I once did. And if I need to, I have other options for carry. This has me out searching for something to meet the criteria. Only to my dismay, there seems to be somewhat lacking availability of such firearms. The perfect gun in my opinion would be S&W 13/19/65 with a 2" barrel. Catch is, I don't think S&W ever made such a beast, looks like the shortest barrels they offered for the 357magnum guns were the 3" variety - unless I'm missing something. Which breaks my heart....

On the new market, there appears to be a relatively small number of 6-shot revolvers offered with 2"-ish barrels: Taurus 856 (and whatever the Rossi version is), the GP-100 (a bit heavy for everyday carry), Colt Night Cobra, Kimber K6. The Taurus and Rossi variants are not offered in 357, only 38 Special. As mentioned the GP is a little heavy for everyday carry. The Colt is nice, but man is that one expensive for a snubbie. And the Kimber, I've never been impressed with their 1911, let alone some newly designed revolver I've never heard of.... S&W does offer a performance center Model 19 with Ported Barrel and Adjustable sights. But not just a plain jane 2" 6-shot 357magnum without the nonsense.

There are older guns out there, notably the Taurus 606. Which is unobtanium, considering it's been discontinued for nearly 20 years. There was a 6-shot Rossi copy made into the mid-2000s at least, but I can't remember the model number. There is the modern RP63, but it has a 3" barrel, doesn't seem they offer anything in 2" these days.

I have half a mind to see if I can find another Model 65 police gun, and a barrel and ejector rod from a 2" Model 64, and send it off to have it Frankenstein'd. Yeah, they'd have to trim the forcing cone area of the barrel. But it could be made to work I think... Might not be able to fully eject the spent cases, but compromises.....

Am I missing something? Where did all of the full-size 6-shot 357magnums go? I swear it seemed like there used to be a lot more on the market....

[Recycled bullet]

I want to see your frankengun when it's completed. I've also been looking at the Red Hawk 357 snubby and k6 snubby.

[jdgabbard]

I want to see your frankengun when it's completed. I've also been looking at the Red Hawk 357 snubby and k6 snubby.

Well, Numrich does list the barrel....But it is not in stock. So I'd need to find one, and a decent Model 65 or Model 19 to go along with it.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/302300

[rintinglen]

I feel your pain. but you are overlooking a couple of excellent candidates.

First, the Ruger Speed/Service/Security Six series: they made a million and a half of them and they are generally cheaper than the S&W's. Now, they generally don't have as nice a trigger as a comparable S&W and they came with a 2 3/4" barrel option, but they are darned fine guns that are stronger than their Springfield Mass rivals. The drawback is that parts are not as available, so if something does break, you may find yourself with a new boat anchor. I have two, a 357 Speed Six and a Service Six, both with 2 3/4 inch barrels. I recently had to shove both hands in my pockets to keep from buying a Security Six snubbie to keep them company. The 357 Speed Six is in my winter CCW rotation. This is the gun I would look for if I was in your boots.
323845

The other choice is the S&W 19/66 357 series. The 19 was the blued version and was a very popular choice with Investigators and Detectives back in the 60's, 70's and 80's, with the 66 coming along a bit later. I have a 66 which is one of my house guns. The problem with these is that they have become very expensive. If the new Colt Cobra makes you say ouch, these will make your wallet squeal like a pig. Good onesrun well on the long side of a 1000 bucks these days. The 2 1/2 barrel also has been criticized for not allowing full extraction of Magnum cases. There are scores of Gunsmiths who can make a K-frame Smith roll smooth as silk if your sample is a little rough. The chief drawback of the K-frame 357's is the barrel. They made a cutaway at the bottom of the forcing cone to allow clearance for the gas ring which will allow the barrel to crack there after as few as 1,000 full power mag loads. However, they will outlast you if restricted to a diet of mostly 38's with only occasional 357 usage. The newer ones are made on an odd ball frame, bigger than a K-frame but smaller than an L-frame, with a 3 inch barrel for full length extraction. The larger frame allows for a stronger forcing cone and should eliminate the barrel cracking problem. They are slightly cheaper than the older ones.


Another gun that is more of a curiosity and a collectors item would be the Dan Wesson Model 14. While the 2 1/2 inch version is pretty common, they also made a few with 2 " barrels. Rock Island Armory has their AL3 model 357.

Finally, if you are not married to a 357, there are plenty of K-frame 38's out there that will give excellent service despite their age. There are also some Colt Official Police models, as well as the Lawman 357, though these tend to command collectors prices these days. And I wouldn't totally discount the GP100. I have a 44 Special that sometimes rides on my hip in the winter.

[eastbank]

323853 one lives here and is not going any where.323854

[sigep1764]

SW has an 8 shot 2.6 inch 357. It’s called tha Performance Center 627. Bit pricy.

[jdgabbard]

I feel your pain. but you are overlooking a couple of excellent candidates.

First, the Ruger Speed/Service/Security Six series: they made a million and a half of them and they are generally cheaper than the S&W's. Now, they generally don't have as nice a trigger as a comparable S&W and they came with a 2 3/4" barrel option, but they are darned fine guns that are stronger than their Springfield Mass rivals. The drawback is that parts are not as available, so if something does break, you may find yourself with a new boat anchor. I have two, a 357 Speed Six and a Service Six, both with 2 3/4 inch barrels. I recently had to shove both hands in my pockets to keep from buying a Security Six snubbie to keep them company. The 357 Speed Six is in my winter CCW rotation. This is the gun I would look for if I was in your boots.
323845

The other choice is the S&W 19/66 357 series. The 19 was the blued version and was a very popular choice with Investigators and Detectives back in the 60's, 70's and 80's, with the 66 coming along a bit later. I have a 66 which is one of my house guns. The problem with these is that they have become very expensive. If the new Colt Cobra makes you say ouch, these will make your wallet squeal like a pig. Good onesrun well on the long side of a 1000 bucks these days. The 2 1/2 barrel also has been criticized for not allowing full extraction of Magnum cases. There are scores of Gunsmiths who can make a K-frame Smith roll smooth as silk if your sample is a little rough. The chief drawback of the K-frame 357's is the barrel. They made a cutaway at the bottom of the forcing cone to allow clearance for the gas ring which will allow the barrel to crack there after as few as 1,000 full power mag loads. However, they will outlast you if restricted to a diet of mostly 38's with only occasional 357 usage. The newer ones are made on an odd ball frame, bigger than a K-frame but smaller than an L-frame, with a 3 inch barrel for full length extraction. The larger frame allows for a stronger forcing cone and should eliminate the barrel cracking problem. They are slightly cheaper than the older ones.


Another gun that is more of a curiosity and a collectors item would be the Dan Wesson Model 14. While the 2 1/2 inch version is pretty common, they also made a few with 2 " barrels. Rock Island Armory has their AL3 model 357.

Finally, if you are not married to a 357, there are plenty of K-frame 38's out there that will give excellent service despite their age. There are also some Colt Official Police models, as well as the Lawman 357, though these tend to command collectors prices these days. And I wouldn't totally discount the GP100. I have a 44 Special that sometimes rides on my hip in the winter.

As strange as this may sound, I have yet to ever see a Speed/Service/Security Six in the wild. They just don't appear to have been that common in Oklahoma. I have seen SP-101s, GP-100s, and various Blackhawks. But never one of the service pistols. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places. But they don't seem to have been super popular here. I can probably find several online and have them ordered. I'll have to look into the others.

I have seen the 19s and 66s, but generally only with the 4" barrels. I have seen one with a 3" barrel. Like I mentioned before, the ideal pistol would be the 19/65 with the 2" barrel, fixed sights preferred. Similar to the second and third thumbnails you attached, I believe those two are Model 10s, which I can find. And I'm not exactly married to the 357 magnum, I just think that it is preferable in a smaller gun to maximize velocity. You loose a decent amount of velocity in a 2" gun with 38spl...

As for the K-Frame forcing cone issues, If I'm not mistaken that and the frame cutting issues were attributed to full power 125gr HP loads. I have a model 65 that probably has close to 2k worth of magnum loads through it without any forcing cone issues. That isn't including the over 20k of 38spl loads I've run through it. And I bought this gun used....an old Police Trade in. No telling how many rounds have gone down range from this thing. With that in mind, I am not sold that the forcing cone issue is as big of an issue as it has been made out to be.


323853 one lives here and is not going any where.323854

Nice Model 10! I really did like mine. Wish I wouldn't have gotten rid of it. The old man has one similar to yours with the Tyler T-Grip added to it. VERY NICE gun....Someday it'll be mine.


SW has an 8 shot 2.6 inch 357. It’s called tha Performance Center 627. Bit pricy.

Yeah, I have see that one. I guess that one does technically qualify as full-sized. I was thinking more of a 6 shot K-Frame. But that is an option.....

[david s]

https://i.postimg.cc/rsch9gxm/IMG-1198.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

About a year and a half ago a fair number of 3-inch model 65's hit the market. I believe they were ex-military trade-ins. You might do a bit of searching online and see if any are still available.

[jdgabbard]

https://i.postimg.cc/rsch9gxm/IMG-1198.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

About a year and a half ago a fair number of 3-inch model 65's hit the market. I believe they were ex-military trade-ins. You might do a bit of searching online and see if any are still available.

I'll take a look. But honestly, would prefer a 2" - 2.5" model.

[shooting on a shoestring]

If you’re mainly interested in 6 shots with 2” barrels, Lipsey’s has a S&W 6 shot 32 H&R J-Frame just put called the Ultimate Carry. It comes with night sights and VZ grips.

Of course the Ruger LCR in 327 Federal is a wicked 6 shot 2” snubby.

And don’t forget the Colt Detective Special. It’s bigger than a J-Frame, 6 shot in 38 Spl. Still quite a few around.

S&W did produce 2.5” Model 19’s and 66’s. They’re out there but ones I have seen had lots of carry wear and were priced $1000 - $1500.

I see a couple of 2” Model 10’s in Houston for just under $1000.

Not many people want a 2” K-Frame. But those who do will pay lots of money to get them. Really though, probably worth it!

[wgg]

I am a fan of the Ruger Six series. I understand they are not supported by Ruger by way of extra parts. I have a blue 4" Security Six 357. While looking on gunbroker I found a stainless Ruger Service Six that had the frame cut in two. I recieved all the revolver parts minus the butt half of the frame. It cost me $75.00 or so. I was not concerned about parts breaking, but if it does I am in good shape. I am looking for a Speed / Service Six at this time.

[country gent]

The k frame was a standard for many years. Another one to look at is the L frame 686. I believe they made some with 2-3" barrels. Chambered in 357 and they were designed to handle full house magnum.
Another to consider is one of the L frames in scandium titanium lighter yet full sized.

[stubshaft]

The very first pistol I shot was my Dads S&W Mdl. 19 round butt snubbie and I have maintained a mania for them over the years. Although it is a little thick in the cylinder, I've been toting this lately.

https://i.imgur.com/XZt1qzzm.jpg

[Papercidal]

If I recall the combat magnum snubbies where 2.5” I’ve got a 19-3 in 2.5”

[Wheelgun]

The Speed-6s are great guns, but you’re right about being rare around here.
The 3” S&W 65s are excellent, though expensive, and I don’t notice any difference in carrying vs a 2” M64.

The 2 3/4” M19 or 66 are very sweet as well if you don’t mind adjustable sights, but they will run close to a Grand-1300 for a pre-lock around here. Same with the 3” 625 in 45acp

If you want new & don’t have to have a 357, I’ve been looking really hard at that new S&W Ultimate Carry 32 J-frame. Also a Sp-101 in 32h&r or 327 are 6shot and very nice but some say they’re heavy

[pete501]

S&W Model 10 "Airweight"? Model 12 was an airweight version of the model 10.

A S&W 337pd in an ankle rig works for me. I would choose comfort over 6 shots of magnum power.

What about a larger grip set for your j frames, I have herrett stocks on a 37 3" that makes it feel less like a j frame.

Think hard about the pros and cons of 38 vs 357. If you load the magnums with H110 in the 2-1/2" m-66 you can really impress your range buddies with the basketball size muzzle flash (Pro or Con?). Personally, I prefer less recoil and easier follow-up shots.

[tja6435]

I like the Ruger Speed Six’s with 2.75” barrel. I have a GP100 with 2.5” barrel and a a S&W 66 no dash with 2.5” barrel. The 66 is probably the skinniest but it’s worth too much to carry. I usually go for a Speed Six, they’re undervalued in my opinion. I got all of my Six’s for $300-450 (4 different guns)

[jdgabbard]

The Speed-6s are great guns, but you’re right about being rare around here.
The 3” S&W 65s are excellent, though expensive, and I don’t notice any difference in carrying vs a 2” M64.

The 2 3/4” M19 or 66 are very sweet as well if you don’t mind adjustable sights, but they will run close to a Grand-1300 for a pre-lock around here. Same with the 3” 625 in 45acp

If you want new & don’t have to have a 357, I’ve been looking really hard at that new S&W Ultimate Carry 32 J-frame. Also a Sp-101 in 32h&r or 327 are 6shot and very nice but some say they’re heavy

Yeah, I haven't seen one in person here. Not sure why that is, maybe the departments of the 80s and 90s just preferred and/or required/suggested S&W. You don't even see a ton of Colts in Oklahoma, and I've lived on both ends of the state. Very strange, we're kind of a one brand state....

As for the adjustable sights, that's the one factor that has kept me from buying a few pistols I've seen, the adjustable sights. They don't really have a place on a Snubby in my opinion. But I guess since the LEO around the world have moved to semiautos we have to deal with the models on the market...

Maybe I'm just being a bit picky, which is always possible. I am most definitely looking at 38spl to 357mag. The 32H&R or 327 Federal simply haven't garnered my support at this time as a defensive load. I'm not saying they're not. I'm saying they don't have the track record of the 38cal rounds. And I'm not sure they ever will have the volume of examples we have with the other two. And for me, that is enough to stay with the 38spl and 357magnum, leaning towards the magnum...


S&W Model 10 "Airweight"? Model 12 was an airweight version of the model 10.

A S&W 337pd in an ankle rig works for me. I would choose comfort over 6 shots of magnum power.

What about a larger grip set for your j frames, I have herrett stocks on a 37 3" that makes it feel less like a j frame.

Think hard about the pros and cons of 38 vs 357. If you load the magnums with H110 in the 2-1/2" m-66 you can really impress your range buddies with the basketball size muzzle flash (Pro or Con?). Personally, I prefer less recoil and easier follow-up shots.

It was definitely a Model 10, in an alloy frame. Can't remember which dash, but most definitely stamped as model 10.

I have larger grips for my J-frames. Small grips don't exactly fit my hand. That said, it's not just about the size of grips. Adding the extra round, with a full size frame, equals more mass. More mass, easier to shoot. That said, I do have an SP-101, which is heavy for it's size. But...it's a 5-shot.

I have thought about it. Don't take this wrong, but I have been shooting magnum pistols since I was about 12 years old. And I'm very comfortable with them. I don't see many cons to the magnum except for increased recoil and muzzle flash. And those two items can be mitigated with exposure to them. And not every load is going to have a muzzle flash so incredibly bright. And even if it did, there are 38spl loads out there that suffer from the same problem. I have a 125gr HP load with the 38spl that has about an 16" fireball which is very visable at the indoor range. I actually made a post about this several months back, trying to find other options for powder with a lower flash. But more importantly, VELOCITY is the greatest concern when dealing with Snubbies. Snubbies simply loose a lot of it due to the short barrel. 38 Special loads do become somewhat anemic with really short barrels, while the Magnum loads will retain more of their velocity potential.

[txbirdman]

Here are my 2 snubbies in .357. They are my 19-3 and 640-3. For a carry gun I much prefer the 640. It weighs 20 oz and has a 2 1/8” barrel which is borderline for pocket carry but I find it as easy to hit with as the k frame 19 using Hornady Critical Defense 135 gr. The 640 I has been “snag free” for me and with the Ahernd grips is very controllable. Of course, you’re giving up 1 round when compared to the k frames but 5 rounds of .357 is a pretty good payload.323890

[Tracy]

2" medium frame .357s have always been rare. As for the 2-3/4" Ruger Six series, they may not be common in OK but they're not hard to find overall. I've had a couple of them and really like them a lot. However, they handle and carry more like a 3" than a 2".
Your idea of fitting a snub .38 barrel to a Model 65 or similar is a good one. Or, it might be easier to find a Model 10 or 64 snubby and fit a .357 cylinder to it. That's probably what I would do if I were looking for something like that. In fact I would probably get a 10 snubby and carry it in stock form while looking for a donor .357 cylinder and a gunsmith to install it. Some of the specialty ammo makers can supply .38 +P+ ammo that is very close to .357 performance, so you wouldn't be losing much while you shop for a cylinder.

[jdgabbard]

2" medium frame .357s have always been rare. As for the 2-3/4" Ruger Six series, they may not be common in OK but they're not hard to find overall. I've had a couple of them and really like them a lot. However, they handle and carry more like a 3" than a 2".
Your idea of fitting a snub .38 barrel to a Model 65 or similar is a good one. Or, it might be easier to find a Model 10 or 64 snubby and fit a .357 cylinder to it. That's probably what I would do if I were looking for something like that. In fact I would probably get a 10 snubby and carry it in stock form while looking for a donor .357 cylinder and a gunsmith to install it. Some of the specialty ammo makers can supply .38 +P+ ammo that is very close to .357 performance, so you wouldn't be losing much while you shop for a cylinder.

Either way the barrel would likely need pulled to turn down the barrel shank the necessary length to accomodate the cylinder. Probably would be easier to find the 2" barrel that way.... This was more of a thought than an actual immediate plan.

[MT Gianni]

For a good sized 2" snub gun in a carry a lot, shoot a little, go with a CA Bulldog in 44 special.

[jdgabbard]

For a good sized 2" snub gun in a carry a lot, shoot a little, go with a CA Bulldog in 44 special.

I've heard good things about the bulldog. But if I'm being completely honest, that crane design has always given me the shivers. It looks VERY thin in the pictures.... Although I can't say I've ever shot one, let alone handled one....

[rintinglen]

From the looks of things, the 2" barrel may not have to be shortened much to get it to fit. I don't have a 357 fixed sight K-frame, but a casual comparison between Pugly, my 2" Model 10-8, and my 357 Model 66 2 1/2" suggests that the cylinders are about the same length. I personally find the 3 inch guns to be easier to shoot well than the same guns with a 2 inch barrel. But I wear a size 12 4E, I can't tell anybody else what size to buy based on my needs and experience.

However, you will have to get an new center pin and extractor rod--the 2 inch guns are shorter. What I have toyed with was looking for a heavy-barrel model 10 and shortening it to 3 inches, having the rib milled for a new sight and making a sort ersatz FBI special. Those 3 inch guns are excellent--I wish I had kept one of the ones that passed through my hands back in the 90's. I had two or three Police trade ins, but was flipping them for a few dollars profit. I never dreamed they'd be as expensive as they are today.

[sigep1764]

Dan Wesson also made revolvers that cam with multiple barrels as well. Again, a bit pricy.

[Winger Ed.]

Am I missing something? Where did all of the full-size 6-shot 357magnums go? I swear it seemed like there used to be a lot more on the market....

There is still some out there, but the world seems to have moved on over to automatics for every need.
With less new ones being sold, it'd make sense to see less of them on the used market too.

I can't remember when the last time I saw a Police Officer wearing a revolver.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Jdgabbard, it sounds like you’re dialed in on what you want and the hunt is on!

I strongly advise to hold out for exactly what you want. It’s going to cost money and you might have to mail order, and it’ll take some time. Settling for something else will leave you always wanting. Way better to get the real deal and be happy!

[shooting on a shoestring]

There’s a retail shop in Houston called Collector’s Firearms. I see they have 3 used K-Frame 38’s in stock with 2” barrels. Their website is cumbersome. Makes you flip through lots of gun pics………sheesh!

[Forrest r]

Last thing I'd want is a 38spl for sd/ccw.
Last thing I'd want to use in a snub-nosed 357mag is a 125gr hp.

The ca bulldog is one heck of a hard hitting light weight revolver. This revolver has well over 1000 44spl p+ loads down the tube. CA uses the same crane for their 357mags. I've carried a ca bulldog since the 1980's. Never any issues.
https://i.imgur.com/UmdYHdc.jpg

Typical 44spl p+ loads used in that bulldog pictured above. A +/- 200gr bullet doing 1000fps is just about perfect for that snub-nosed revolver.
https://i.imgur.com/fo57jjU.jpg
Heck standard pressure 44spl loads will rival what a snub-nosed 357mag brings to the table. Playing around at 25ft doing rapid fire drills (5 shots/20 seconds). Interestingly enough the same 8.0gr of pp pushing a 245gr swc & 200gr wc gave the same velocities.
https://i.imgur.com/ld6RTZd.jpg

Myself, I wanted a snub-nosed 357mag. So I got a s&w l-comp. 7 shots, comped and easy enough to conceal. Don't use a light bullet in it, a 170gr fn doing 1200fps+ gets the nod.
https://i.imgur.com/5vi2mrE.jpg

Carried the s&w 29 off and on for decades. Used several different +/- 260gr bullets doing 1200fps+ for loads. Sold it off a couple years back.
https://i.imgur.com/2G8nnTn.jpg

Still have the $$$ laying around to buy a s&w 69. Still haven't decided on a 2 3/4" bbl and sell the ca bulldog. Or go with a 4.25" bbl and the heavy bullets again.

Small light revolver and recoil present their own issues. The tradeoff becomes low recoil loads or lighter bullets.

[FergusonTO35]

Love my Taurus 856! Carries as easy as a J frame, six shots, as easy to shoot as a K frame. Ruger, why didn't you come up with this gun? All it would take is opening up the SP-101 a bit which is already big and heavy for a five shot.

[jdgabbard]

Love my Taurus 856! Carries as easy as a J frame, six shots, as easy to shoot as a K frame. Ruger, why didn't you come up with this gun? All it would take is opening up the SP-101 a bit which is already big and heavy for a five shot.

Yeah, the SP-101 is definitely an over-built gun. I have one in 38spl, and it amazes me how well it was made.

I think I've decided what I am going to do. I'm going to be keeping my eye out on a Model 19 with a 2-2.5" barrel. But I may also look into buying a Rossi RP63, 606, or another of the like.... The RP63 has a 3" barrel, the 606 a 2" barrel - but it's not made anymore. They may not be as nice as the S&W, but they seem to be relatively well built.

[Jtarm]

I don’t get the desire for a 2” .357.

2 3/4 to 3” gets you a full-length extractor stroke, better ballistics, longer sight radius, better recoil control and is just as concealable on a belt.

[cpaspr]

It seems you're wanting the six round capacity in a short barrel, non-adjustable-sights package. Anything not ticking those three requirements is out. And that's fine. There are guns out there that meet your requirements. They're just few and far between coming up for sale, and spendy when they do.

Me, I opted for the Ruger LCR-357. 1-7/8" barrel, 5-shots. I went with the .357 version rather than the .38 specifically because it was about 3.6oz heavier (at 17.1oz), and I can shoot .357s if I choose to. The trigger is not light, but it is very smooth. Even though it's double action only, I regularly shoot bowling pins at 15 yards with it. I don't feel under-gunned.

[Outpost75]

I went onto Gunbroker and bought early 1970s Colt Agent with true 2-inch barrel and shrouded ejector rod and heavy barrel, Parkerized as my EDC. Weighs a pound loaded.

323954

[jdgabbard]

I went onto Gunbroker and bought early 1970s Colt Agent with true 2-inch barrel and shrouded ejector rod and heavy barrel, Parkerized as my EDC. Weighs a pound loaded.

323954

That is a nice gun. I’m a little jealous…

[jdgabbard]

It seems you're wanting the six round capacity in a short barrel, non-adjustable-sights package. Anything not ticking those three requirements is out. And that's fine. There are guns out there that meet your requirements. They're just few and far between coming up for sale, and spendy when they do.

Me, I opted for the Ruger LCR-357. 1-7/8" barrel, 5-shots. I went with the .357 version rather than the .38 specifically because it was about 3.6oz heavier (at 17.1oz), and I can shoot .357s if I choose to. The trigger is not light, but it is very smooth. Even though it's double action only, I regularly shoot bowling pins at 15 yards with it. I don't feel under-gunned.

Obviously that’s what I’m in the market, or at least evaluating the market for. But I guess the original intent of the post wasn’t so much trying to find one, as much as a genuine question of where they went / why we don’t really see them in current production so much. Along with comments about what’s out there now, and options for older guns… The topic just kind of turned into what it is…

I own multiple J-Frame sized pistols. I’m not opposed to them. I have a SP-101 and a Taurus 85 Ultralite that I carry fairly often. They work well, and I’ve been happy with them. I guess my personal preferences are just leading me back to medium sized 6shots intended to be concealable.

[challenger_i]

Meaning no disrespect, but I always thought of the Fitz Special Colt New Service as a "Full-Sized Snubby"... :)

[Bigslug]

As for the OP question of "where they went". . .

Practically, as a "combat gun" that needed to walk the line between being concealable for a plainclothes detective type, while still holding six rounds, using standard issue speedloaders, etc. . . a three inch barrel was kind of the magic number because it allowed for an extractor rod that was long enough to completely push a spent case clear of the cylinder.

This allowed the thumb of the left hand to run the extractor, sure of getting rid of all the brass, while the right hand was reaching for the next speedloader.

What I'm teaching these days with the short-rodded 1 7/8" to 2 1/4" snubbies that CAN'T completely drive the cases free, is to hold the revolver vertically with the left hand, "spank" the extractor rod briskly with the right in the hope that momentum and gravity will pull the cases clear, continue downward with the right hand to strip free any cases that remain hung up, and only then continue the movement with the right hand toward the fresh ammo.

The six shot guns used to be common as a primary mode of self defense and that easier reload of the slightly longer extractor rod was seen as a benefit. Not so much in today's auto-prevalent world where you can put 15 rounds of 9mm in a gun smaller and lighter than a 2.5" K-frame. The emphasis of the five shot snubs is more toward concealment and they are often carried without a reload.

So the short answer to the OP question is, they kind of got to be dinosaurs. Still being made, but the main niche for them doesn't really exist anymore.

[Outpost75]

Big Slug nailed it! Excellent summation.

[Bigslug]

If you've not handled a 3", fixed sight GP-100, it's worth your time. It is NOT just the 4" gun with a shorter barrel - it has (or at least used to have) a smaller grip spur, and in the older days of them coming exclusively with the Jordan-style grips with wood inserts, a slightly smaller version of that grip. While it isn't quite as svelte as the 3" Smiths, it captures almost all of that "NIIIIICE" feel without having the K-frame's weaknesses with regards to full-tilt .357 ammo.

In a little more modern terms, I've seen the .40 S&W wear out a lot of guns and gun parts because the guns were originally engineered for 9mm. The proper fixes for that were to design a brick of a handgun (HK USP); replace the two-piece stamped slide/separate breechblock with solid steel (Sig); or fatten the slide up to .45/10mm dimensions (Glock Gen 5 line has a .40-specific slide). Similarly, the K was a .38 asked to house the .357, and they had problems. As I like to say, the effect on both was like cramming Hemis into Hondas. The Ruger GP and the Smith L's and N's aren't as slinky, but there's no free lunch if you want to run the .357 in Toasty Mode.

[beemer]

I've heard good things about the bulldog. But if I'm being completely honest, that crane design has always given me the shivers. It looks VERY thin in the pictures.... Although I can't say I've ever shot one, let alone handled one....

I have had several Charter Arms. The crane does not support the pin, it's just a sort of a swing out hinge. A sliding sleeve on the cylinder pin drops into the frame and supports the front. It actually locks up tight, not a bad system.

[Winger Ed.]

I've heard good things about the bulldog.

They sure won't win many beauty contests, but they work.

[pettypace]

They sure won't win many beauty contests, but they work.

And they're small!

324002

[FergusonTO35]

I've had several Charters and never had a bit of trouble with them. Currently have two Undercovers, one from the 70's and one from the 2010's. Both are excellent and I do carry them for defense. That said, the 856 is just very slightly larger and has an extra round so why not.

[boatswainsmate]

There are still good finds out there. I found this Model 66 no dash in a gun shop just begging for a new home 9 months ago.
https://i.ibb.co/Q6wkV3W/66-dress1-2.jpg (https://ibb.co/GVS9D4Z)

[Outpost75]

Meaning no disrespect, but I always thought of the Fitz Special Colt New Service as a "Full-Sized Snubby"... :)

Sandy Garrett at Nova Gun Works rebuilt a basket case .455 New Service for me to make my "Pocket Blaster." NOT a Fitz "mutilation", but a modern build to duty gun standards by a Colt factory-trained former police armorer, and award winning American Pistolsmith's Guild Smith of note.

3-1/2" Douglas barrel with .451 groove, barrel-cylinder gap.pass 0.005/ hold 0.006. end shake and timing corrected, combat action job, matte blue, produces 0.012" striker indent on copper. Expanded bullet is Speer 250-grain Deep Curl loaded in Starline brass with 4 grains of Bullseye at 620 fps. Expanded to 0.70" and stopped in 4th gallon water jug. Test target with CIL .455 Colt fired off bags at 25 yards. Faint scribble on lower right of target is calculation for 0.022 mill cut needed to adjust elevation zero on new front sight.

324178324179

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324177

[charlie b]

You certainly know how to make someone jealous :)

[Outpost75]

When you pay twice the cost of the donor gun for the work, you gotta really want it.
But trying the current smaller .45 S&Ws they held no magic for me. This one does.

[Good Cheer]

If you're reloading, for Charter Arms, see if the stainless snubbie .41 Mag suits your musculature.
The difficult part is of course finding one to handle.

[Jtarm]

Outpost75

If that’s a “Pocket Blaster”, you’ve got some big pockets!

[Jtarm]

When I heard Smith/Lipseys we’re rolling out a new carry revolver at the SHOT show, I had my fingers crossed for something like this blast from the past:

https://www.opticsplanet.com/smith-wesson-315-night-guard-revolver-38-special-p-2-5in-barrel-frrmpg.html

They’re scarce as hens teeth and cost a mortgage payment or two when you find them.

[Outpost75]

Outpost75

If that’s a “Pocket Blaster”, you’ve got some big pockets!

Carhart barn coat and Duluth Trading fire hose work pants.

[jdgabbard]

Sandy Garrett at Nova Gun Works rebuilt a basket case .455 New Service for me to make my "Pocket Blaster." NOT a Fitz "mutilation", but a modern build to duty gun standards by a Colt factory-trained former police armorer, and award winning American Pistolsmith's Guild Smith of note.

3-1/2" Douglas barrel with .451 groove, barrel-cylinder gap.pass 0.005/ hold 0.006. end shake and timing corrected, combat action job, matte blue, produces 0.012" striker indent on copper. Expanded bullet is Speer 250-grain Deep Curl loaded in Starline brass with 4 grains of Bullseye at 620 fps. Expanded to 0.70" and stopped in 4th gallon water jug. Test target with CIL .455 Colt fired off bags at 25 yards. Faint scribble on lower right of target is calculation for 0.022 mill cut needed to adjust elevation zero on new front sight.

324178324179

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That is one sexy gun! I am definitely jealous of that one.

Side note, I was looking around today and discovered Taurus has a 2.5" Snubby in 44 Magnum!!! Talk about overkill!!! As for me, I think I've settled on the Rossi RP63 for now. I'll probably try to find a nice S&W 19 at some point. But the Rossi is just about what I'm looking for, although it comes with a 3" barrel. I guess that isn't a terrible thing.

[Bigslug]

It's ironic that I've developed a pretty healthy disdain for short-action rifles, when I spend a lot of time thinking the world needs what I'd call a short-action revolver.

Pretty much all the wheelguns in production these days are designed to fit either a .45 Colt (black powder era) or .357 Magnum (developmental roots leftovers from the black powder era). With modern wound ballistic science driving the notion that 9mm is enough, we don't necessarily need that case capacity or cylinder length.

We theorized on this a lot in the stickied .38 S&W / British Webley / .380/200 thread, and my concept was that a gun built around what would effectively be a +P+ level .38 Short Colt would use the more common .357 family of bullets; could be shot in existing .38 Specials; and - relevant to this thread - would neatly solve the barrel and ejector rod length concerns discussed here.

The same concept applied to a "short window" N-frame Smith for .45 Auto Rim might be a little weird looking, but I bet it would get a following.

[pettypace]

Expanded bullet is Speer 250-grain Deep Curl loaded in Starline brass with 4 grains of Bullseye at 620 fps. Expanded to 0.70" and stopped in 4th gallon water jug.

324177

What!? Only 620 ft/s? How "anemic." :wink:

[FergusonTO35]

It's ironic that I've developed a pretty healthy disdain for short-action rifles, when I spend a lot of time thinking the world needs what I'd call a short-action revolver.

Pretty much all the wheelguns in production these days are designed to fit either a .45 Colt (black powder era) or .357 Magnum (developmental roots leftovers from the black powder era). With modern wound ballistic science driving the notion that 9mm is enough, we don't necessarily need that case capacity or cylinder length.

We theorized on this a lot in the stickied .38 S&W / British Webley / .380/200 thread, and my concept was that a gun built around what would effectively be a +P+ level .38 Short Colt would use the more common .357 family of bullets; could be shot in existing .38 Specials; and - relevant to this thread - would neatly solve the barrel and ejector rod length concerns discussed here.

The same concept applied to a "short window" N-frame Smith for .45 Auto Rim might be a little weird looking, but I bet it would get a following.

I totally agree with you, unfortunately the ammo makers know that some dummy is going to load one of these super shorties into grandpa's top break and blow himself to bits. I've often thought that a rimmed .40 S&W would be pretty sweet in a wheelgun and you could adjust the power level to your liking.

[Bigslug]

I totally agree with you, unfortunately the ammo makers know that some dummy is going to load one of these super shorties into grandpa's top break and blow himself to bits. I've often thought that a rimmed .40 S&W would be pretty sweet in a wheelgun and you could adjust the power level to your liking.

That's another reason why I was thinking to base on the .38SC instead of the .38SW - I don't think I've EVER seen a gun specifically chambered specifically for .38 Short Colt in all my travels. Per Wiki, it was concocted for converting the 1851 Navy to metallic cartridge use.
The main use today seems to be for powder puff loads for CAS in guns that are rated for considerably more steam. Of course, a resurrection of the rimmed 9mm Federal would address some of that, it would no longer be .38/.357 compatible.

[Gray Fox]

I'm a big fan of S&W Centennials and thought I had the best of them with a 940-1 in 9mm with moon clips. For some reason, It just doesn't do it for me. The one I often carry is the 640-4 Pro Series with the dovetailed front and rear night sights, and fluted barrel with moon clips. It's in .357, but what I carry is .38 +P-level coated DEWC that I get from Acme Bullets (every time I write or say that I immediately think of Wiley Coyote). I carry it loaded with a moon clip, but carry a reload in a quick strip. Hoever, I'm beginning to work oup loads for two CA .44s, a 3" blued and 2.5" stainless. I got some 200-grain DEWC from Rim Rock Bullets that should do the trick with a load that gets about 700-750 fps from those barrel lengths. GF

[pettypace]

I'm beginning to work up loads for two CA .44s, a 3" blued and 2.5" stainless. I got some 200-grain DEWC from Rim Rock Bullets that should do the trick with a load that gets about 700-750 fps from those barrel lengths. GF

Yes. That should "do the trick."

Here's a screenshot showing predicted data for that load along with the wound mass numbers for other loads for comparison.

324301

Note that the wound mass listed for the FBI load (37 grams) and the 147 grain 9mm (40 grams) represent maximums given ideal bullet expansion -- unlikely from your 640 or 940. On the other hand, the .44 WC requires no bullet expansion for its 37 grams of wound mass and should be pretty much a sure bet so long as the Bulldog goes bang.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Thanks Pettypace.
I appreciate you dropping the data in Virgel.

[pettypace]

Thanks Pettypace.
I appreciate you dropping the data in Virgel.

You are entirely welcome. But VIRGEL is best used interactively. The interface is designed to instantaneously predict how changes in bullet parameters (nose shape, diameter, weight, and velocity) effect bullet terminal ballistics (energy, momentum, gel penetration, and permanent cavity volume). Of course, VIRGEL's predictions aren't perfect. But they match up pretty well with those of MacPherson's Bullet Penetration and Schwartz's Quantitative Ammunition Selection (on both of which VIRGEL is based).

To use VIRGEL interactively, you need it running on your own computer or phone. A free Android version is available on the Google Play Store and there's a web-based version here (https://rewebster.org/virgel/) that runs on just about any browser. Help yourself.

[rintinglen]

In thinking back, the only 2" full sized .357 I can recall being made by a U.S. Manufacturer was the Colt Lawman. Built on the MKIII frame, with fixed sights and a rounded grip, it was less than successful. The problem with the MKIII guns was the uniformly heavy trigger pull. They averaged 15 pounds, though I have read of some as light as 12 pounds. None that I ever examined went that light. Additionally, they had a clunky feel. That was not the butter smooth pull of a pre-war Smith, nor even the more jerky trigger on the post war OP's. To me, they felt like a Model 19 that was 10% overweight, like a super model who had let herself go. Eventually, they got around to revising the MKIII and made a MK V, which did have a decent trigger but that was too late. By then, the age of the wondernine had arrived and if it didn't hold 14 or more rounds, the cops weren't carrying it. (Because Heaven forfend that one should find himself "outgunned".) And the police were the main purchasers of duty handguns. If Colt had made the MK V action from the git-go, I wonder if The Security Six line would have ever got off the ground. But they didn't, so we'll never know.

I had a MKIII trooper 6 inch which I carried briefly, but soon sold. It was quite accurate when fired single action, especially with the Speer 146 grain HP's, but the heavy double action made rapid, "combat" shooting very hard. A 4 inch worked better in a patrol car, and was noticeably lighter. IIRC, the 6 inch Trooper weighed just about the same as the model 28, which weighed nearly 2 3/4 pounds. Add that, a couple of speed loaders of ammo, a Motorola radio, a Maglite and a PR-24 to a couple pairs of hand cuffs and you had trouble keeping your pants up. I sold the MK III and went to a S&W 39-2 then back to a Model 66 S&W before finishing my career as a gun packer with a SIG 220.

All of these ramblings bring me around to the point that Bigslug made. Modern policing uses lighter, high-cap, bottom feeders, not heavy, round guns that shoot "only" a half a dozen shots. Most civilians want a gun like those carried by the police. Not many folks left who fancy a full sized, snubby, and most of us already have ours. This leaves a very small market.

[pettypace]

To me, "full-sized snubby" seems almost a contradiction in terms. But the OP did specify "full size grip, short barrel, full 6-shot capacity."

Here's a Webley Metropolitan Police model that meets those specs:

324418

Despite being designed over 150 years ago, Webley actually got a lot right. The double action is smooth and the grip is much better than a Smith or Colt with no "filler" needed.

Some consider the stubby little .450 Adams cartridge "anemic." But Miha's 230 grain HBWC over a light charge of Bullseye gives about 550 f/s with the same wound mass and better penetration than the vaunted FBI load from a 4" barrel. So much for "anemic."

One thing Webley didn't get right is the funky little swing out ejector rod. After the first cylinder full, the Metropolitan Police model becomes a better club than firearm.

[racepres]

In thinking back, the only 2" full sized .357 I can recall being made by a U.S. Manufacturer was the Colt Lawman. Built on the MKIII frame, with fixed sights and a rounded grip, it was less than successful. The problem with the MKIII guns was the uniformly heavy trigger pull. They averaged 15 pounds, though I have read of some as light as 12 pounds. None that I ever examined went that light. Additionally, they had a clunky feel. That was not the butter smooth pull of a pre-war Smith, nor even the more jerky trigger on the post war OP's. To me, they felt like a Model 19 that was 10% overweight, like a super model who had let herself go. Eventually, they got around to revising the MKIII and made a MK V, which did have a decent trigger but that was too late. By then, the age of the wondernine had arrived and if it didn't hold 14 or more rounds, the cops weren't carrying it. (Because Heaven forfend that one should find himself "outgunned".) And the police were the main purchasers of duty handguns. If Colt had made the MK V action from the git-go, I wonder if The Security Six line would have ever got off the ground. But they didn't, so we'll never know.

I had a MKIII trooper 6 inch which I carried briefly, but soon sold. It was quite accurate when fired single action, especially with the Speer 146 grain HP's, but the heavy double action made rapid, "combat" shooting very hard. A 4 inch worked better in a patrol car, and was noticeably lighter. IIRC, the 6 inch Trooper weighed just about the same as the model 28, which weighed nearly 2 3/4 pounds. Add that, a couple of speed loaders of ammo, a Motorola radio, a Maglite and a PR-24 to a couple pairs of hand cuffs and you had trouble keeping your pants up. I sold the MK III and went to a S&W 39-2 then back to a Model 66 S&W before finishing my career as a gun packer with a SIG 220.

All of these ramblings bring me around to the point that Bigslug made. Modern policing uses lighter, high-cap, bottom feeders, not heavy, round guns that shoot "only" a half a dozen shots. Most civilians want a gun like those carried by the police. Not many folks left who fancy a full sized, snubby, and most of us already have ours. This leaves a very small market.

So The "Six Series" was Not full sized??? Or...Maybe Not Short Enough?? I do Not recall an even 2"

[tejano]

Here is mine.
324423

[rintinglen]

The Ruger Speed and service sixes only came with 2 3/4 inch barrels; the K frame 357 Smiths were 2 1/2 -3 inches, but truth to tell, I'd forgotten about the 327s. They are honest 2 inch barrels. I do think the micro extractor rod will have troubles ejecting 357 casings. But in fairness, if 8 357's haven't got the job done, you probably won't fair any better with the second six, err, 8.

[FergusonTO35]

That's another reason why I was thinking to base on the .38SC instead of the .38SW - I don't think I've EVER seen a gun specifically chambered specifically for .38 Short Colt in all my travels. Per Wiki, it was concocted for converting the 1851 Navy to metallic cartridge use.
The main use today seems to be for powder puff loads for CAS in guns that are rated for considerably more steam. Of course, a resurrection of the rimmed 9mm Federal would address some of that, it would no longer be .38/.357 compatible.

What kind of pressure are you thinking? If it exceeds .38 Special +P then it could still be loaded into a gun that won't handle it.

[Tall]

I was shopping hard at the Ft Worth Gun Show at Amon Carter convention center back in 2015 for a Smith Model 19 2 1/2" barrel, nickel plated. I saw maybe 6 - 7 of them for sale at that show. It's a big place, maybe 1200 tables. If I had seen any for $1K I would have bought one. However, that weekend, none were priced less than $1250 and no one would take a grand for one.

[racepres]

I was shopping hard at the Ft Worth Gun Show at Amon Carter convention center back in 2015 for a Smith Model 19 2 1/2" barrel, nickel plated. I saw maybe 6 - 7 of them for sale at that show. It's a big place, maybe 1200 tables. If I had seen any for $1K I would have bought one. However, that weekend, none were priced less than $1250 and no one would take a grand for one.

Wow!!! Luckily I prefer longer barrels..Maybe someday, I come up with a Short DW Pork Chop!!

[WRideout]

That's another reason why I was thinking to base on the .38SC instead of the .38SW - I don't think I've EVER seen a gun specifically chambered specifically for .38 Short Colt in all my travels. Per Wiki, it was concocted for converting the 1851 Navy to metallic cartridge use.
The main use today seems to be for powder puff loads for CAS in guns that are rated for considerably more steam. Of course, a resurrection of the rimmed 9mm Federal would address some of that, it would no longer be .38/.357 compatible.

A good friend of mine was the maintenance man at a senior apartment building. One of lady residents was about to throw in the dumpster a like-new breaktop revolver(!). She gave it to him for free. I can't remember the make, but it was roll stamped on the barrel "38 short colt." I have shot it, and keep the brass for those occasions I want to shoot it in my Mod. 19 just for grins.
Wayne

[MT Gianni]

I searched long and hard for a Model 66 or 19 with a 2 1/2" bbl. I got a beautiful rb combat set up with the model 66 and found it just wasn't as accurate for me as a square butt 4". It got sold a couple of years later.

[HWooldridge]

In thinking back, the only 2" full sized .357 I can recall being made by a U.S. Manufacturer was the Colt Lawman. Built on the MKIII frame, with fixed sights and a rounded grip, it was less than successful. The problem with the MKIII guns was the uniformly heavy trigger pull. They averaged 15 pounds, though I have read of some as light as 12 pounds. None that I ever examined went that light. Additionally, they had a clunky feel. That was not the butter smooth pull of a pre-war Smith, nor even the more jerky trigger on the post war OP's. To me, they felt like a Model 19 that was 10% overweight, like a super model who had let herself go. Eventually, they got around to revising the MKIII and made a MK V, which did have a decent trigger but that was too late. By then, the age of the wondernine had arrived and if it didn't hold 14 or more rounds, the cops weren't carrying it. (Because Heaven forfend that one should find himself "outgunned".) And the police were the main purchasers of duty handguns. If Colt had made the MK V action from the git-go, I wonder if The Security Six line would have ever got off the ground. But they didn't, so we'll never know.

I had a MKIII trooper 6 inch which I carried briefly, but soon sold. It was quite accurate when fired single action, especially with the Speer 146 grain HP's, but the heavy double action made rapid, "combat" shooting very hard. A 4 inch worked better in a patrol car, and was noticeably lighter. IIRC, the 6 inch Trooper weighed just about the same as the model 28, which weighed nearly 2 3/4 pounds. Add that, a couple of speed loaders of ammo, a Motorola radio, a Maglite and a PR-24 to a couple pairs of hand cuffs and you had trouble keeping your pants up. I sold the MK III and went to a S&W 39-2 then back to a Model 66 S&W before finishing my career as a gun packer with a SIG 220.

All of these ramblings bring me around to the point that Bigslug made. Modern policing uses lighter, high-cap, bottom feeders, not heavy, round guns that shoot "only" a half a dozen shots. Most civilians want a gun like those carried by the police. Not many folks left who fancy a full sized, snubby, and most of us already have ours. This leaves a very small market.

I also bought a new Mk III Trooper in .357 with 6” barrel. I then bought George Nontes book on pistol smithing and Ed McGivern’s treatise on “fast and fancy”…after lots of polishing and spring changes later, the DA pull was pretty good. Good friend of mine worked for TDC so we got boodles of .38 and .357 ammo to practice with. I probably put 7-8K rounds down range over the course of two years then a coworker decided to throw money in my lap so down the road it went. As you mentioned, the SA trigger was great and the piece was extremely accurate - it would stack through one little hole at 25 steps and I won a few bets with it.

[FergusonTO35]

Been shooting and carrying my 856 alot lately. With reduced power trigger return spring from Wolff it has an excellent trigger in both single and double action. That said, mine is a steel frame and weighs not much less than a 15 round compact 9mm. I'm going to get an aluminum frame Ultra Lite 856 this spring.

[jdgabbard]

Been shooting and carrying my 856 alot lately. With reduced power trigger return spring from Wolff it has an excellent trigger in both single and double action. That said, mine is a steel frame and weighs not much less than a 15 round compact 9mm. I'm going to get an aluminum frame Ultra Lite 856 this spring.

I have an Ultra-Lite 85. It's a handy gun, but with stock springs it is a pain to shoot. The trigger pull is just too great for such a small grip. Which causes quite a few flyers. That said, I have upgrade the spring kit in it. I more often carry my SP101 instead of the Taurus. Though the Taurus is built well...I probably should shoot it more, but it doesn't get as much range time as my other firearms.

[FergusonTO35]

Mebbe I just got a lemon, but the SP-101 I used to have was the worst handgun I've ever owned and it was an "old" WBR era gun that everybody says is so wonderful. Light springs only produced misfires and no noticeable improvement in the gritty 40 pound trigger pull. Shot way low with everything I tried in it. Got my money back out of it on a trade and never looked back.

[jdgabbard]

Mebbe I just got a lemon, but the SP-101 I used to have was the worst handgun I've ever owned and it was an "old" WBR era gun that everybody says is so wonderful. Light springs only produced misfires and no noticeable improvement in the gritty 40 pound trigger pull. Shot way low with everything I tried in it. Got my money back out of it on a trade and never looked back.

I'd say you probably got a lemon. I love mine. Easy to shoot, easy to carry - though it is a 38spl only gun. That said, I have a tougher time hitting anything with it further out than 15 yards. Some of that is because of the short sight radius, some of that is because my own capabilities, or lack thereof. But overall the gun is a great gun.

[rintinglen]

I am no fan of the 38/357 Sp101. Too heavy for a 38, too light for a 357, only 5 shots; it doesn't really do what I want a small frame revolver to do. I have a 4 inch 327 with adjustable sights that I think highly of, but only after a lot of work and a spring kit to make for a decent trigger pull.
Out of the box, the triggers stink. I truly regret the demise pf the Security Six line up. A little bit heavier? Perhaps, but a lot better shooter. and for a hideout backup, give me a J-frame Airweight any day. The one gun that I have carried more than any other is my old Model 38. It needs a lot of attention now. Hundreds, if not thousands, of 38 +p's have taken their toll, but it was there when I needed it. I'll die with that one.

[racepres]

While decidedly Not a Full Size Snubby.. We Use this Taurus aplenty!! I do Not believe it better nor worser than Most that have passed thru here.... But... it is Decidedly Not a Speed Six!!!!
Edit...Forgot the darn picture... yea Not ours...But exactly like it, Except the Hogue grip is preferred around here!!
324752

[FergusonTO35]

I'd say you probably got a lemon. I love mine. Easy to shoot, easy to carry - though it is a 38spl only gun. That said, I have a tougher time hitting anything with it further out than 15 yards. Some of that is because of the short sight radius, some of that is because my own capabilities, or lack thereof. But overall the gun is a great gun.

I'm sure that is the case and I have known alot of folks who loved the SP. Still, I think it needs to go on a diet as does the GP. Both are just too firggin' heavy for what they are in my opinion unless you are actually shooting stout loads.

[FergusonTO35]

I am no fan of the 38/357 Sp101. Too heavy for a 38, too light for a 357, only 5 shots; it doesn't really do what I want a small frame revolver to do. I have a 4 inch 327 with adjustable sights that I think highly of, but only after a lot of work. I truly regret the demise of the Security Six line up. A little bit heavier? Perhaps, but a lot better shooter. .

The Sixes are my favorite wheelguns of all time. My 1988 Service Six .38 stainless is one of the last handguns I would ever part with. I don't even shoot it that much, but it is just such an excellent example of the breed.

[FergusonTO35]

While decidedly Not a Full Size Snubby.. We Use this Taurus aplenty!! I do Not believe it better nor worser than Most that have passed thru here.... But... it is Decidedly Not a Speed Six!!!!
Edit...Forgot the darn picture... yea Not ours...But exactly like it, Except the Hogue grip is preferred around here!!
324752

Those old polished Taurus and Rossi wheelguns are some fine side-irons for sure.

[jdgabbard]

I'm sure that is the case and I have known alot of folks who loved the SP. Still, I think it needs to go on a diet as does the GP. Both are just too firggin' heavy for what they are in my opinion unless you are actually shooting stout loads.

They are built like a tank for sure! I have no doubt that even my 38spl revolver would handle loads above SAAMI without issues. That said, when I carried it more I used a nice custom leather holster with a 2" custom belt. Bought them from a guy over in Georgia or Alabama that used to frequent the Wanenmacher show. (EDIT: just remembered, it's O'Rourke Leather in Hartselle Alabama: https://orourkeleather.com/holsters) Can't remember the company, and last I heard he had slowed down. But he made some REALLY nice custom rigs... But the point behind my digression is that I didn't have any issues with the weight, as I had a nice rig to carry it in. Now days I carry more inside the waist band, or pocket carry. So I don't carry it as much. But it still gets some use...


Those old polished Taurus and Rossi wheelguns are some fine side-irons for sure.

The first "new" wheelgun I ever bought was a Rossi (I think 461). And that was one of the nicest firearms shoot. It was very nicely polished, and very accurate. I unfortunately sold it to help finance the purchase of a Glock 17 while I was working in law enforcement, having regretted that decision to this day. I wouldn't mind owning another one.

[charlie b]

I'm sure that is the case and I have known alot of folks who loved the SP. Still, I think it needs to go on a diet as does the GP. Both are just too firggin' heavy for what they are in my opinion unless you are actually shooting stout loads.

I am another who loved the SP. The trigger on mine was nice and smooth. Not quite Python smooth but not like many I've tried over the years. Weight wasn't an issue for me usually carrying it on a belt or shoulder holster. Sometimes I'd slide it in the pocket of my motorcycle pants. I rarely fired anything less than full magnum loads in it. After all, if you want to shoot .38 level loads then get a .38. :)

And I agree, a Security Six is a great gun as well.

But, I also don't have any problem with a 5 shot revolver.

[FergusonTO35]

I shoot nothing but standard pressure .38's so the extra weight and strength of the SP is not needed.