Non case hardened FL dies

[castmiester]

I heard Lee and Herrera are not. Any others?

[Randy Bohannon]

None are to my best guess.

[castmiester]

Lee are case hardened, called them a few minutes ago

[jmorris]

A file and an unimportant edge will tell you instantly. If its not hard, the file cuts away some metal, if it is hard, it might scratch the finish but won't cut into it.

I have shortened Lee dies before, that wouldn't properly size, they are hardened, I used a tool post grinder.

I have extensively modified RCBS dies and that required annealing first (again hardened).

[Nobade]

Yes, they are easy enough to anneal then re harden when you're done modifying.

[castmiester]

Yes, they are easy enough to anneal then re harden when you're done modifying.

I never annealed steel, so explain. And how do you reharden ? Once it cools or how ?

[243winxb]

Fl bottle neck dies only need to be harder then the brass.

Its very easy to open the neck area with emery paper, wood dowel & and a drill to spin it.

RCBS 223 in my experence.

[castmiester]

Fl bottle neck dies only need to be harder then the brass.

Its very easy to open the neck area with emery paper, wood dowel & and a drill to spin it.

RCBS 223 in my experence.

I used 150 grit by hand, ahhh Emery is coarse grit..... but the right diameter dowel is key.

I'll gets some emery tonight, thanks.

Guess the easiest way to do this is… pin gauge the neck of the die, measure the OD of a fired case, and lap until the die neck area pins a few thou over the fired case neck. I don’t have pin gauges for this so l think l might have gone far enough. Just have to run a fired cases measuring as l go until it doesn’t get sized. Got an easier way ?

[Nobade]

Or just buy a Redding body die if you don't want to size the necks but just the body.

[castmiester]

Redding just made a shipment last week to grafs, but if by chance l miss it which l shouldn’t, coz l’m on the notification email…hopefully I get it soon

[243winxb]

Sound like you dont want to size the necks at all? The Redding type S fl die, without the bushing, is a body die.

I like to....
Measure loaded rounds neck diameter. Pick the smallest diameter. Write it down.

Take fired brass that the necks have fully expanded. Size & measure, ream die neck till outside diameter of sized brass is .003" smaller then a loaded round.

Remember, not all neck wall thickness will be the same. The expander should open the necks a tiny bit.

I like to feel a light drag from the expander as it pulls thru the lubed necks.

[castmiester]

Sound like you dont want to size the necks at all? The Redding type S fl die, without the bushing, is a body die.

I like to measure loaded rounds neck diameter. Pick the smallest diameter. Write it down.

Take fired brass that the necks have fully expanded. Size & measure, ream die neck till outside diameter of sized brass is .003" smaller then a loaded round.

Remember, not all neck wall thickness will be the same[/B]. The expander should open the necks a tiny bit.

I like to feel a light drag from the expander as it pulls thru the lubed necks.


Sound like you dont want to size the necks at all?

Nope. Don't use standard die with sizer button dies.. they over work and over size, nor busing dies or 21st century or the like mandrels. Tried them all and settled on LCD's.

Not sure how you manage this.

Measure loaded rounds neck diameter. Pick the smallest diameter

Any loaded rounds I check for neck tension are the same.

I use a Lee Collet die, and it takes care of inconsistent necks after annealing. It indicates under a thou at four different positions and loaded bullet indicates less than .001.

Don't want to turn necks with a Saami chamber, loose enough. Redding body dies are less expensive then thier S die and a Lee collet die. My groups shrunk with .001 neck tension down to .25 at 100 and a little more at 200, like almost an inch.

[castmiester]

Fl bottle neck dies only need to be harder then the brass.

Its very easy to open the neck area with emery paper, wood dowel & and a drill to spin it.

RCBS 223 in my experence.

Hard to believe you did it very easily.... I'm using a dremel with an abrasive hard sanding wheel, and it's taking awhile to get to the end. Maybe a 223 isn't much to get through. But my .30 cal isn't. I just hope I don't disturb the shoulder... if I do I'll just toss it and hope I can jump on Grafs to get a Redding body die and forget about it. I'm done with this grinding ! LOL Had enough.

WINXB

186 bucks for your S die... wow wee ! No thanks

Considering this, body die in set....I like the seater, better than any other standard seater on the market as far as I'm concerned. Concentricity was the best, even compared to Forster chamber sleeve seaters... couldn't believe it. Redding really makes great dies. Sorry I didn't get them years ago. ALways thought they were a rip off, when I started out loading. I bought the S type three die set.. body die, neck bushing die, yeah I know, I said I don't like the bushing set up.


Grafs is the cheapest for that die set. Bought them.

[Nobade]

I don't know if they still offer the service or not, but Hornady used to open the neck of your sizer die for free to whatever you wanted if you bought a die set from them. That has been 20 years ago so might not still be viable though.

[castmiester]

There's a machinists local that I could have it done... but I'm honing in on the set from Midsouth....

UGGHHHH !!! Optics Planet 5-7 weeks to ship just the body die ! AFTER I placed the order ! I emailed them to cancel. They don't charge until they ship. They don't show it's on back order, they list it in stock.. so I canceled it.

[jetinteriorguy]

I use the Redding body die and the Lee Collet neck die in both .223 and 6.5CM and the worst runout of tested rounds has been .0015 but better than 80% or so are less than .001. You can also get .001 undersized mandrels for a tighter fit if needed, and I bet if you contact Lee they’d custom make a mandrel to your specs, although I’m only guessing on that.

[uscra112]

Lee dies appear to be nitrided, judging by behavior when I've modified them. Very thin very hard skin, core cuts like 12L14 or similar. Can't be annealed, can't be re-hardened in the conventional way. RCBS dies I've modified in the past were through-hardened. Could be annealed and re-hardened if you had to. I just used an abrasive cutoff wheel to shorten them, chuck in lathe and use a Dremel to bevel the mouth.

[castmiester]

I use the Redding body die and the Lee Collet neck die in both .223 and 6.5CM and the worst runout of tested rounds has been .0015 but better than 80% or so are less than .001. You can also get .001 undersized mandrels for a tighter fit if needed, and I bet if you contact Lee they’d custom make a mandrel to your specs, although I’m only guessing on that.

Annealing helps alot for me with the LCD. And..... I drilled out the die cap recess to allow the sizing mandrel not to bottom out against the case head. This prevents sufficient travel of the collet against the collet sleeve. If the collet doesn't compress enough against the sleeve, consistent sizing will not occur nor consistent concentricity numbers, regardless of varying neck thickness. In the past I considered after sizing neck reamer. I had mixed results with OD of case necks and neck tension until explained a different way to achieve what I achieved. I tried to explain this to Lee but I doubt they would rectify it. Their directions are totally bogus.

[jetinteriorguy]

Annealing helps alot for me with the LCD. And..... I drilled out the die cap recess to allow the sizing mandrel not to bottom out against the case head. This prevents sufficient travel of the collet against the collet sleeve. If the collet doesn't compress enough against the sleeve, consistent sizing will not occur nor consistent concentricity numbers, regardless of varying neck thickness. In the past I considered after sizing neck reamer. I had mixed results with OD of case necks and neck tension until explained a different way to achieve what I achieved. I tried to explain this to Lee but I doubt they would rectify it. Their directions are totally bogus.
I did forget to mention that I turn all necks and anneal every fourth loading for consistency as well.

[castmiester]

I did forget to mention that I turn all necks and anneal every fourth loading for consistency as well.

Doesn't help me to turn necks in a Saami chamber, I need all the meat I can get......turning necks is the most beneficial in a custom chamber with custom dies. .25 inch at hundred tells me that. And annealing every firing produces consistent shoulder bump, and if I don't, isn't inconsistent.