MP Molds vs. Lee That much difference for the little money spent???

[Wooserco]

I've read here how consistent MP molds cast from one cavity to another. How does he do it with so little difference in cost from the Lee molds?



I'm currently casting with a Lee 148 gr. button nose wad cutter mold. The cavities are all over the place. None drop consistant diameters. They range from 0.358-0.360 plus from some cavities. They all have good fill out. The mold was dropping good, sprues cut great, no leading on the sprue plate nor the mold blocks. But the difference in diameter was concerning me. I didn't weigh them, because the difference in diameter tells me that they would be far differenent.

My question is this: for not much more money, is the MP 8 cavity mold that much better than the Lee 6 cavity? How can he do it if Lee can't?

I'm tempted to drop all 800 of the Lees back into the casting pot and order the MP Mold.

Edit / Delete Edit Post Quick reply to this message Re

[hunter74]

Oh, yes! They cannot be compared! MP Molds are at the other end of the quality spectrum compared to Lee. If you try one, you would never use Lee again!

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[Wooserco]

Thanks for the feedback! I'm amazed at the little difference in cost between the MP and Lee molds. Additionally, the MP has two more cavities! I'm tempted to try one next payday (Uncle Sam's pittance called Social Security).

[FLINTNFIRE]

I have lee molds in 6 cavity that are fine , I also have MP molds and they are great I try to cast as close to diameter as I shoot , where I see a lot of molds that cast larger and then you size down , I prefer not to resize so a mold throwing a wide range of sizes is a no go for me .

I have a saeco and lyman wadcutter molds that come out at 360 , since I went to powder coat that is to big for me without resizing , what size do you need your bullets to be and do you size ?

[Harter66]

I've been really lucky with Lee I guess all of my 6s cast within.001 and 3 gr which is good enough for the 100' can killers .

While I can't vouch for MP I have an H&G that casts 8 under a grain and within.001. I can't find enough difference in a Mountain Mold to call one or the other cavities. The NOE 5 holes show up 1 gr and .0008 dia but I think it's all about the sprue plate and hinge bolt .

Is it worth the extra money vs Lee ? Do critters do their business in the woods ? Heck yeah!!!

[dannyd]

I use Lee Six cavity and MP eight cavity, they both work good. Never measured the bullets from each cavity because I only shoot revolvers out to 50 yards, so I never need 1000 yard rifle accuracy. :)

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

they cast equally well, IMHO.

[sukivel]

Oh, yes! They cannot be compared! MP Molds are at the other end of the quality spectrum compared to Lee. If you try one, you would never use Lee again!

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Ok I have to stand up for Lee here.

Are MP molds machined better than Lee? Absolutely. Are they worth the price difference? Absolutely. Is this required for casting quality bullets? No.

All of my MP molds are great, almost all of my Lee molds are great. Out of my great Lee molds and MP molds you can’t tell a difference in casting or end use.

MP molds you can get in brass or hollow point if you prefer, as all Lee are aluminum and no hollow point…if that’s what you’re interested in.

They both shoot great. You can inexpensively try out different Lee’s. If an MP doesn’t work out for you they cost three times as much, so I’m saying it’s cheaper to get into Lee’s.

I have several MP’s, but the last three molds I bought were Lee. Two work great, but my rifle doesn’t so much like the other. The mold drops a great bullet, but I don’t care as much cause it was $33.


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[BJung]

I own Lee and I own MP Molds. Lee molds are like Lee Reloading equipment. Lee Products are for the "budget-minded" reloader and caster. They work. For the money, you cannot beat a Lee 6-Cavity mold. I've learned that you have to tinker with the Lee 6 Cavity mold. Since I first casted using Lee molds, you have to make sure the mold is hot enough and the cavities are smoked. You have to make sure the pins are oiled so the mold pieces line up; otherwise the cast bullets will be out-of-round. Using a more consistent alloy helps. I only use JHP core from range scrap for my 38-148. And to make the weight more consistent, I twirl swirl my lead onto the sprue plate and into the cavity. A hot plate helps too. Last, you need to size your bullets anyway. My MP molds are a class apart from a Lee. It's like comparing a Lee press to a Redding. First, they look beautiful when you first receive them. I use 2-cavity molds because I can buy more variety of molds and the cavities will cast more consistent bullets. For my Lee, I have 2-3 different weight groups.

[dtknowles]

I've read here how consistent MP molds cast from one cavity to another. How does he do it with so little difference in cost from the Lee molds?



I'm currently casting with a Lee 148 gr. button nose wad cutter mold. The cavities are all over the place. None drop consistant diameters. They range from 0.358-0.360 plus from some cavities. They all have good fill out. The mold was dropping good, sprues cut great, no leading on the sprue plate nor the mold blocks. But the difference in diameter was concerning me. I didn't weigh them, because the difference in diameter tells me that they would be far differenent.

My question is this: for not much more money, is the MP 8 cavity mold that much better than the Lee 6 cavity? How can he do it if Lee can't?

I'm tempted to drop all 800 of the Lees back into the casting pot and order the MP Mold.

Edit / Delete Edit Post Quick reply to this message Re

The difference between a .358 diameter bullet and a .360 diameter is going to be 1.5 gr. I am thinking you are worrying about the wrong things. This is easy practical geometry. Pie are square no Pi R round. The difference in the volume of two cylinders of equal length is difference in the squares of the radius.

Me, if I had 800 bullets that looked good I would lube/size them and shoot them. I don't even thing you would notice the difference shooting in a ransom rest.

Tim

Regarding how one manufacturer does its thing vs another. Margin, quality control, production rate, quantity. MP probably makes fewer molds checks their tooling more frequently, makes less money per mold and makes fewer molds. If MP increased their price they would get less business, if Lee tried to improve their quality probably nobody would notice. I hope they both make enough money to stay in business.

Tim

[jsizemore]

Lots of folks cast good bullets with Lee molds. They usually have experience casting and can apply all they've learned to get the most from whatever molds they use.

[deces]

I've read here how consistent MP molds cast from one cavity to another. How does he do it with so little difference in cost from the Lee molds?


Easy, difference in currencies and lack of overhead.

[BJung]

My suggestion is to save your money and practice with the Lee .38-148WC mold. My test groups are the size of my cylinder at 25 yards. Use your money to buy what Lee doesn't offer like a hollow point mold with interchangeable pins than can even cast a FN bullet. I like the 2 cavity brass molds because they aren't heavy

[Iron369]

I’d say it’s the difference between tooling in a mass production and a small scale production process. Same with a lot of things. The reason an Anderson lower is $50 and a Knights lower is $200. I own both and there’s a marked difference in the quality.

[sukivel]

My suggestion is to save your money and practice with the Lee .38-148WC mold. My test groups are the size of my cylinder at 25 yards. Use your money to buy what Lee doesn't offer like a hollow point mold with interchangeable pins than can even cast a FN bullet. I like the 2 cavity brass molds because they aren't heavy

Yep!


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[dverna]

"My question is this: for not much more money, is the MP 8 cavity mold that much better than the Lee 6 cavity? How can he do it if Lee can't?"

You have answered your own question. The price difference is not significant, so why buy a Lee? The MP might not be that much better, but it is unlikely to be worse. Plus, if the MP mold is not giving consistent results, MP is more likely to make it right.

There are very few people who have done enough testing to determine if MP molds produce a more consistent bullet and if that bullet is more accurate. One casting session is not enough. Then, if both molds are producing "decent" (whatever that means) bullets, you would need to weigh 200 bullets and determine ES and SD. Lastly, bench testing twenty 5 shot groups after you have determined a load that your gun likes with each bullet.

Most folks are not that anal. "Good enough is good enough", and "when I do my part", works for most pistol shooters. Even when I was a good pistol shot, we used a Ramson Rest to test loads. I cannot shoot well enough to know if a load groups 2" or 3" at 50 yards unless I shoot a lot of groups. Most people call it "done" once they get a couple of acceptable groups.

If I was buying molds, I would buy the MP. NOE or Accurate molds and not worry about the small premium. But I use pistol bullets in carbines so want to increase my chances for accuracy to 100 yards. If I was buying a mold to cast 9mm blasting ammo to use at less than 25 yards, it would not matter. Just my take on it.

[oldhenry]

Lee quality consistency now differs from the days when Richard Lee was on site. Around '79 (before the computer age) I needed a 405 gr. for a Ruger #3 @ .458. I wrote Richard Lee & received a 1 cav. #457-405F with a note from Richard Lee "this one drops @.458 with ww. Send me a check for $12.95".
My 1st 6 cav. was in the early '90s: a 358-150RN. I was re-entering IPSC shooting revolver & need a RN. That mold dropped perfect boolits. Several more 6 cav. Lees were added in the '90's & I was happy.
Recently a Lee 356-125 6 cav. was not aligned properly. I returned it @ my expense with sample boolits & they sent a replacement.
I have 9 MP 8 cav., 2 6 cav. brass molds. & 4 2 cav.HP molds. They are beautiful & produce beautiful boolits. I will never regret buying them.
However, I prefer the Lee handles to the MP handles.
I confess that I do not shoot wadcutters.

I did not mean to ramble.

PS: I also have several Accurate molds & love them.

[farmbif]

decades ago I never bothered to get a Lyman 311041 for the 30-30 because the lee 309150f and 309170f worked perfectly well but the most recent lee mold I got which was from the clearance page the cavities dont seem to be finished so well. over the years ive collected at least 20 MP brass molds from group buys and then from Miha's web site and have not regretted purchasing any of them. the one mold ive gotten from NOE also produces perfect castings each and every time. I think I got 3 different Lyman 429421's from different eras before getting the MP 503 clone and shooting that and the 430640 in 44's most often.

[GrizzLeeBear]

They range from 0.358-0.360 plus from some cavities. They all have good fill out. The mold was dropping good, sprues cut great, no leading on the sprue plate nor the mold blocks.

You are over thinking it. It sounds like you have a mold that is casting well as is. Unless you have an expert or better classification in Bullseye pistol you will not know the difference. You might be able to tell a difference with a ransom rest or very careful benchrest shooting. Lube and size them .358 and go shoot them.

Now if you want an MP mold for the higher production rate or just a better quality mold go for it, but I very much doubt you will see an accuracy difference with cast wadcutters.

[Forrest r]

Interesting to say the least.

Contrary to popular belief you don't need to be an expert/master class shooter to tell the difference between a mold that cast multiple diameter bullets and a quality mold that throws consistent bullets.

Decades ago (1987) I bought/used a h&g #50 6-cavity mold to cast 148gr wc's using range scrap (8/9bhn) and a lyman 450 sizer .358". Had a pistol range setup in my back yard and shot 1000's of those wc's in the same revolver. Years later (1992/93?) I bought a bunch of molds (20/25?). They were all lyman with several mold handles. Among them was a 4-cavity wc mold 358495. I sold the h&g before testing the lymans, what the heck.

A wc mold is a wc mold after all. Shocking!!!

For some odd reason I never could get those 358495 wc's to shoot as accurately as the h&g's. Ended up selling that 4-cavity mold and buying another 1. Darn!!! Same thing. Decided to try a lee 6-cavity wc mold. Again no love. Ended up going back to the h&g #50 mold and life was good again.

It wasn't that 1 bullet was more accurate then the other. It was there was less fliers with the h&g wc. Consistency ='s accuracy.

Do yourself a favor and buy consistency.

[jdgabbard]

Yeah, MP molds are worth every penny of the difference in cost.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I'd never buy another Lee mold. I have bought several Lee 6-Cav molds since I got my first MP mold around 10-12 years ago. But is Lee the first mold I go looking at? Absolutely not. If I had a choice to buy a 6-cav from Lee for $60 or an 8-Cav MP for $70+shipping (typically about $25 by itself) I'm going to buy the MP every single time.

Matter of fact, I just purchased an MP Mold the other day, and received it yesterday. Literally took 3 days to get from Eastern Europe to my front door.

[Harles Dawson]

I bought the 8 cavity, 147 grain mold from MP. WOW, is my opinion. 9mm mold by the way. Won’t hesitate to buy more. Harles

[Apple Man]

I just ordered an MP 452-200, four cavity in brass plus some of their handles. This mold is supposed to be the HG #68 which some say is a dandy 45 ACP bullet and a top punch is included.

[Bigslug]

If you're concerned about the quality of the output you're getting, then that's probably your answer right there - order the MP.

Sure they're just .38 wadcutters that most people are going to just plink with, and no one will ever know or care that one empty dog food can was hit dead center, and the next was 3/4" off. But some guys are going to load that same wadcutter to compete for fortune and glory. The effort to make them will be about the same, and NOBODY EVER uttered the phrase "My revolver is just too damned accurate". At the point getting higher level performance at the range requires sorting your bullets by weight and diameter - or lay awake at night thinking your should - you have to start factoring in what your time is worth, and a slightly cheaper mold becomes a false economy. If it's a minimal difference in cost to get a tool that with some care will outlast you and give that good output, vs. one that won't and you might wear out, it's a no-brainer to me. I have two brass MP .455 Webley hollow-base molds and remain stunned at what I got for what little I paid.

Lee's equipment holds an interesting place in my head. I will curse the primer "non-feeding" device of Lee Pro 1000 progressive press until the day I die; their carbide pistol dies for .38 S&W and .455 Webley saved me paying the "rare and unusual caliber" premium of other brands and make ammo as good as any; their case trimmers and FCD's perform good service for many; lots of us learned to load good ammo on the Whack-A-Mole Lee Loader; their two-cavity bullet molds seem like something that would dissolve in a gentle rain; their single stage presses work. They get people in the game and I have a lot of respect for that, but the quality has to be judged by category.

[Iowa Fox]

I'll never buy another MP mold. He stuck a bunch of us on here with dud molds and refused to make it right with us.

[Thor's Daddy]

I just ordered an MP 452-200, four cavity in brass plus some of their handles. This mold is supposed to be the HG #68 which some say is a dandy 45 ACP bullet and a top punch is included.

It IS a dandy in the 45 ACP. Many a bullseye shooter swear by the design. Armadillo don't care for it though...

[jdgabbard]

I'll never buy another MP mold. He stuck a bunch of us on here with dud molds and refused to make it right with us.

Did I miss something? Is there a thread discussing this? I'd like to read through it if so. I've never known Mihec to do anything of the sort, but if you say so I wouldn't mind reading through the discussion about it.

[GregLaROCHE]

I have mostly Lee aluminum molds. However, I really like the brass ones I have from MP.

[Delkal]

I have a number of Lee 6 cavity molds and they work good enough for handguns. I do size all of the bullets since every now and then one is oversized and takes a lot more effort to push thru but that is probably operator error. Lee dies do need some tweaking right out of the box though. I always take off the sprue plate and lightly chamfer the front edge of the plate where it passes over the block. Just look at an old die where the semicircles are scored where the sharp edge is dragging and round those places the most. They also need some anti seize under the plate where it pivots or the aluminum gets badly scored after a lot of use.

[dannyd]

Fedex just handed me the MP mould. I use just about everyone's mould.

324209

[Wooserco]

I'm curious as well...Anything to back up your statement? It's been over a month, I'm sure that by now you could have found the forum post discussing this.

[Wooserco]

dverna... I used to shoot High Power Rifle competition at Cadillac Sportsman's Club. Our paths may have crossed. I was extremely anal about my loading techniques and the components that I used. 25 years later, I'm just getting back into shooting. (side note: during the housing crisis and economy collapse in 2009-2010 we lost everything: cars, company vehicle, company, house: EVERYTHING). I'm just now getting back into shooting and reloading. That attention to detail when fabricating loads for 600 yard shooting is still ingrained in my head from my Uncle, who taught me to shoot and whose competion rifle I now own. It's capable of 17 10s and X's at 600 yards. I've done it.

So having said all of this: now you might understand my concerns regarding the consistancy of the drops on my simple wad cutter mold. My brass and bullets for 600 yards were all segregated by weight. Consistancy is important to me.

As and aside: I'm a field service technician. Years ago (I'm currently 67) during a class a null voltage was 4.6 to 5.4 volts. The instructor commented that my adjustments were always dead nuts in center of the specs. YUP! I try to be as exact as I can be was my response).

[dannyd]

The MP 357, 135 RN works good.

324780

324781

[Iowa Fox]

Did I miss something? Is there a thread discussing this? I'd like to read through it if so. I've never known Mihec to do anything of the sort, but if you say so I wouldn't mind reading through the discussion about it.

Here you go.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?376073-CLOSED-MP-Molds-Larsen-C432-250-RF-for-44-Special-Magnum-444-Marlin/page13

[jdgabbard]

Here you go.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?376073-CLOSED-MP-Molds-Larsen-C432-250-RF-for-44-Special-Magnum-444-Marlin/page13

Thanks, I’ll take a look.

[jdgabbard]

Here you go.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?376073-CLOSED-MP-Molds-Larsen-C432-250-RF-for-44-Special-Magnum-444-Marlin/page13

So I skimmed through that thread, and while I do agree he left you guys hanging, there are a couple of observations I had.

First, it looks like there were questions about what the specs of the design were. It's totally possible that whoever designed that particular mold requested a shank with a +/- tolerance that left you on the high end with an essentially unusable mold. Uncommon, but it does happen from time to time. And in that case, seems like the blame should be on whoever designed it.

Second, I don't think you mentioned this in the thread, but what alloy are you using? MP molds are designed tolerance wise to use specifically with straight WW alloy. So if you're using a mix that adds Sn (+1% or +2%), you're obviously going to end up with a larger diameter than what the mold was specified to cast at. I have this problem with several of my molds, as I use 50/50+2%. I have a 358429 mold that drops at .364" with my alloy, and has to be sized down in two steps, otherwise it is basically unusable for me.

Another way of looking at it could be that the mold was both on the larger end of tolerance, and the alloy is one that would naturally cast larger. That's just speculation, this is your mold and not mine. And I do not wish to minimize your experience. I'm just offering up possible explanations...

Now, that obviously doesn't excuse the fact that he fat-chick'd you, and never responded to your inquiries. But, I don't necessarily think he did that with malintent. I myself have reached out to him back last year to inquire about a design and I still haven't receive a response. And to note, I had the same experience with NOE, Arsenal, and Accurate. I didn't get a response from any of them. These inquiries were about a design I am interested in bringing forth - one that there is no analog of at this time... So with that said, in my own experience I chalked this up to the makers being too busy running the machines to respond. Not an excuse from a customer service standpoint. Just my own observations.

Either way, I can say this, what happened to you guys is unfortunate. But I don't think it is a good representation for the vast majority of people who have purchased molds from Mihec. He came into this scene when we were getting MUCH MUCH worse service from Lee than you received on your end. We'd get molds from them that were literally egg shaped, wouldn't cast to size, were sometimes not cut level in the blocks, etc, etc. When he and Al got started offering molds, it was a shocking experience at the quality of the molds and the bullets they produced for the price. I'm not saying you guy's didn't get burned, you did. But I will say that in the nearly 15 years that the guy has been doing this, that is the very first example I have heard of. And definitely isn't the norm....

[hermans]

I own Lee and I own MP Molds. Lee molds are like Lee Reloading equipment. Lee Products are for the "budget-minded" reloader and caster. They work. For the money, you cannot beat a Lee 6-Cavity mold. I've learned that you have to tinker with the Lee 6 Cavity mold. Since I first casted using Lee molds, you have to make sure the mold is hot enough and the cavities are smoked. You have to make sure the pins are oiled so the mold pieces line up; otherwise the cast bullets will be out-of-round. Using a more consistent alloy helps. I only use JHP core from range scrap for my 38-148. And to make the weight more consistent, I twirl swirl my lead onto the sprue plate and into the cavity. A hot plate helps too. Last, you need to size your bullets anyway. My MP molds are a class apart from a Lee. It's like comparing a Lee press to a Redding. First, they look beautiful when you first receive them. I use 2-cavity molds because I can buy more variety of molds and the cavities will cast more consistent bullets. For my Lee, I have 2-3 different weight groups.

I agree with you here...there is no comparison between Lee and MP molds. MP molds are the very best of the best. I also have molds from Tom at Accurate Molds, his molds are top notch, NOE are also good but a little down in the order......Lee right at the bottom, you get what you pay for.

[Iowa Fox]

So I skimmed through that thread, and while I do agree he left you guys hanging, there are a couple of observations I had.

First, it looks like there were questions about what the specs of the design were. It's totally possible that whoever designed that particular mold requested a shank with a +/- tolerance that left you on the high end with an essentially unusable mold. Uncommon, but it does happen from time to time. And in that case, seems like the blame should be on whoever designed it.

Second, I don't think you mentioned this in the thread, but what alloy are you using? MP molds are designed tolerance wise to use specifically with straight WW alloy. So if you're using a mix that adds Sn (+1% or +2%), you're obviously going to end up with a larger diameter than what the mold was specified to cast at. I have this problem with several of my molds, as I use 50/50+2%. I have a 358429 mold that drops at .364" with my alloy, and has to be sized down in two steps, otherwise it is basically unusable for me.

Another way of looking at it could be that the mold was both on the larger end of tolerance, and the alloy is one that would naturally cast larger. That's just speculation, this is your mold and not mine. And I do not wish to minimize your experience. I'm just offering up possible explanations...

Now, that obviously doesn't excuse the fact that he fat-chick'd you, and never responded to your inquiries. But, I don't necessarily think he did that with malintent. I myself have reached out to him back last year to inquire about a design and I still haven't receive a response. And to note, I had the same experience with NOE, Arsenal, and Accurate. I didn't get a response from any of them. These inquiries were about a design I am interested in bringing forth - one that there is no analog of at this time... So with that said, in my own experience I chalked this up to the makers being too busy running the machines to respond. Not an excuse from a customer service standpoint. Just my own observations.

Either way, I can say this, what happened to you guys is unfortunate. But I don't think it is a good representation for the vast majority of people who have purchased molds from Mihec. He came into this scene when we were getting MUCH MUCH worse service from Lee than you received on your end. We'd get molds from them that were literally egg shaped, wouldn't cast to size, were sometimes not cut level in the blocks, etc, etc. When he and Al got started offering molds, it was a shocking experience at the quality of the molds and the bullets they produced for the price. I'm not saying you guy's didn't get burned, you did. But I will say that in the nearly 15 years that the guy has been doing this, that is the very first example I have heard of. And definitely isn't the norm....

The only reason I jumped in on this group buy is it was a Glenn Larson design. Way back when we were doing Lee group buys Glenn designed some that I was in on and they are excellent shooters so I sent the honcho a pm about dimensions then I jumped in. I didn't need another 44 caL as I have between 30-35 of them some of them from MP. After we received the molds the complaints began to pop up so I cast a few and sure enough mine was like the rest. I wasn't real concerned as I thought he and the honcho would make it right with us. There were a lot of pm's between us guys about the dud molds. They were all casting the same right down to the thousanth. All We ever wanted is to return the blocks to the honcho and have then replaced. I'm still willing to return the blocks at my expense to the honcho and receive something that is usable even if it is another mold design. I don't think that is unreasonable. I was in on the 7mm Thor group buy which turned into a real nightmare for the honcho and ballisticast but they squared it away with me. I'm not sure why the honcho and Miha made the decision to just plain shaft us guys.

[Patrick L]

I use Lee Six cavity and MP eight cavity, they both work good. Never measured the bullets from each cavity because I only shoot revolvers out to 50 yards, so I never need 1000 yard rifle accuracy. :)

I think this pretty much nails it. MP are DEFINITELY better. Lee is fine. The sad truth is, a LEE will shoot better than 99.9% of us are capable of shooting, so they get away with their lower apparent quality. And I'm a pretty good shot.

As for how MP can afford to do it so well for so little, I'm in the dark there. But happy!!