Reloading full bore or sabot slugs?

[Greg5278]

I have been loading shotgun slugs for years, and am always working on something new. I keep coming back to the same issue: fullbore slugs are easier to make shoot, than anything else. The Lyman style sabot slugs are highly unpredictable. A simple internet search shows the problems most people experience.

I have been working on a few Lyman type slugs in a wad concept. The results are frequently poor, but sometimes come together. The wads shear one petal or more, and the slug yaws or something. I managed to fire the one group of 1.5" for 5 shots at 50 yards. That isn't usually the case. I have several custom molds, and various types of wads.

The other day, I randomly picked 5 full bore cast slugs from my stash, and loaded them with Longshot. I developed the load, so that the velocity is subsonic. All 5 shots went into 1.75" without any trouble. The only hard part about loading the slugs is lubing them. The wad column is the old style nitro cards, but uses a Plastic gas seal.

Why do we still fool with the slugs in wads?

Greg

[Blammer]

because getting a full bore slug is pretty difficult

Ever look for a (20ga in my example) mould that's .625 dia? or .627?

Ever try to get a sizer that's .625?

Dang near impossible. :)

so sabots are the next "logical" step, or wads used as sabots.

[turbo1889]

Full bore molds in the 20ga. is no problem -- they can be had and at a reasonable price and delivery time table from www.mountainmolds.com

Now the 12ga. -- that's the one that's a real kicker, those usually take a special block to cut because of interference from the mold handle slots on the maximum possible diameter with most standard mold blocks. With the exception of a round ball mold it's not easy to find someone willing to make up a 0.730" diameter mold.

Want to have some real fun? Try finding a mold cutter to do you up a custom, nose pore, hollow base 0.050" underbore diameter 10ga. mold with three length wise passes with a small diameter milling machine ball end cutter on each mold half, one down the center and the other two at each of the cavity edges to give a four point, straight, lengthwise rifling arrangement that brings the slug out to full bore diameter but will still allow it to easily swage down in any choke, allowing universal 10ga. application with alloy harder then pure lead. [smilie=b:

I agree with what your saying, Greg, it's just that full bore diameter in something as large as a shotgun bore gets kind of dicey to get molds cut for.

[Greg5278]

Blammer, you don't need a sizing die for most slugs. You can shoot slugs as cast, as long as the diameter isn't more than .005" oversize. I have fired oversize 12 ga at .739" and not had pressure problems. Starangely enough accuracy was good too. Mountain Molds can cut you a mold sized to fit your bore, just slug the bore first.

My point was that reloading full bore slugs is less frustrating and 90% of the time more accurate. The slugs in wads have too many inconsistency issues. The wad is frequently to blame, the petals are not the same thickness. I have seen many Gualandi wads that were .020" thicker on one side. My latest project, using the CSD series wads from BPI seems to work okay. The wads have been better, but it depends on the manufacturing lot. The wad is unslit, and caries the slug through the target. It's sort of a Hammer head type arrangement. It actually seems to work in a smoothbore too. The balance seems to negate the need for rifling.

Turbo, I think the design you mention can be made fairly easily. The straight ribs would need to be milled. I think you could cut them in 4 places, but they would need to be centered in the cavity, and on the parting line. The hollow base could have a slidign abr to retain it, anf help pull the slug from the mold.

Greg

[longbow]

Turbo:

I am planning on making a mould to produce vaned slugs, one in hollow base with small vanes/ribs and one with full length/depth vanes for the same reasons:

I like full bore slugs I would like to both reduce bore friction and allow for an oversize slug that will swage down to suit (and maybe go through a choke) So far I have gotten inconsistent results using shotcups




The mould has to be made similar to a swaging die but it will work. The vanes will also need a bit of taper to allow release as well. I have made a nose pour TC hollow base in a similar type of mould so now just have to add ribs/vanes.

I made a similar mould a few years ago with just 4 ribs and it did not work very well. I don't think there was enough bearing surface so plan on 6 ribs this time.

Longbow

[Blammer]

I'd love to get a full bore mould, but can't afford $200 for one. :)

[longbow]

I don't have the tooling to mill the slots quick enough to be going into business ~ at least for now. There are a couple of fairly simple ways to get the job done but to get it done fast is a different matter. The rest of the mould is pretty easy going.

I am going to make a test mould or two to try out and see how it all goes. While I like the look of the vaned slug, I am thinking the hollow base has more surface where needed to give correctional drag to keep it flying straight. The ribs are really just to reduce bore friction and to allow crush for an oversize slug so it is bore size with no rattle and not too picky about exact bore size ~ swage to fit.

Also, the hollow base mould will be easier to make and cast with.

The plan is a solid nose, thick skirt and about 600 grs. or a little better.

Something that might be doable at reasonable price is to bore rings into a Lee Drive Key slug mould to bring it up to bore size. Buckshot did a nice job on a Lyman Foster that way. If the mould was diassembled then the halves clamped together it could be chucked in a 4 jaw chuck and lathe bored to make 3 or 4 bore diameter driving bands. Lee moulds are inexpensive and the lathe work shouldn't be too difficult.

Longbow

[longbow]

Blammer:

Another thought occurs to me, if you have no objection to full bore round ball anyway.

I got some pretty good results using a bore size (actually well over bore size) round ball in a rifled Remington 870. The groups were running around 2" or a little better at 50 yards.

Depending on your groove diameter you may be able to find a Lyman mould or if not Jeff Tanner in the UK makes nice ball moulds in any diameter you want and they are quite affordable. Shotman got one of his moulds in 0.728" if memory serves and is quite happy with it.

The website is: http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/moulds.htm

While I plan to make another mould or two for smoothbore I still think that I will be making a slow twist rifled choke tube for bore size round ball in the end ~ a modern Paradox gun.

Longbow

[Adam604]

Blammer: As Longbow mentioned, bore sized round ball performs very nice out of a rifled 12 ga.

I've been shooting some round ball from a 12 ga H&R Ultra Slug gun and have been getting 2" or better groups at 50 yards.

At present I'm using:

Federal Gold once fired 12 ga hulls
Win 209A primer
38 grains BlueDot
Federal 12s4 wad trimmed to a 1/4 inch cup
1.3cc COW
Lyman .735 round ball lubed with Lee Alox
8 point star crimp

some of my groups have even been 3 shots touching at point of aim at 50 yards

Same load at 100 yards is about a 5 inch group about 10 inches low (scope adjusted for 50 yard bulls eye)

Adam604

[missionary5155]

Good morning Adam604 What twist is your H&R slug gun ?

[turbo1889]

Longbow, so far the simplest method I've come up with for making rifling in a slug mold or swag die is to drill a circular pattern of small diameter holes centered around the intended main body and then center bore to the appropriate size leaving little "half round" rifling grooves. I made a prototype mold that way for 12ga. with a drill press but without precision alignment capabilities it was pretty "rough" to say the least and for conceptial testing only. It also makes nose shape pretty much flat wadcutter only for a hollow based design. Assuming of course your drilling down from the top for the pattern of small diameter holes. I suppose if you drilled up from the bottom and had a stepped plug that was larger then slug diameter up to the base of the slug that wouldn't be so. I've got a custom 410 slug swag die on the drawing board right now to be cut from 7/8-14 bolt stock, two peices top and bottom and then use a coupler nut and lock washers to assemble the unit with the ejector punch and bottom punches to cut as well.

Speaking of such things, any good, reliable machinist out there who are willing to do custom work for hire? I'm a paying customer and not just all talk -- I routinely put out three digit figures for custom mold cuts and or modifications to factory molds when I can find someone willing to do the work. Rough cut (+/- 0.001) swag die(s) as well, I do final polish myself with lapping compound and elbow grease.

[Blammer]

My latest test.

Took a .60 RB and hammered it through a .570 sizing die.

Put it in a 20s1 wad with 28ga nitro cards under the 'ball' in the wad.

Not bad, will have to check velocity and longer range accuracy. The high shot I think I pulled high for some reason.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Slug%20data/File0095.jpg

I would like to find a full bore slug to try, preferably one with a lube groove.

[Greg5278]

Blammer, the group looks good. Mountain molds should be able to make you a mold for $90 or so. I don't rember his pricing, I think you could possible get a 2 cavity for that price. Plus $200 doesn't buy too many sabot slugs for plinking.
Greg

[longbow]

turbo:

I have done the same with that 4 rib mould and had similar problems. I have come up with a simple way of getting straight ribs into a mould but for my limited tooling and small equipment it takes time. Not difficult, just slow.

I will give it a go and let you know how things turn out. I have started on a vaned style mould but have been held up by having to do body work on my daughter's car. I hope to get back to it soon.

I doubt either the vaned style or ribbed hollow base would be suitable in a rifled bore though.

Longbow