Electronic Rifle Trigger ?

[Johnch]

I am messing around I admit , I plan on making 1 at least

I am ( So far most of the design is just on paper ) designing a 9mm bullpup rifle
I have some of it 3D printed for testing of ideas
As making test parts from PLA is cheap

I will also admit this design is taking a while with my headaches :sad:

So far I plan on a 16 1/2" threaded barrel
26 1/2" OAL
Takes Glock mags
Hammer , sear and pistol grip from a AR15 as I have them
But I may change the the sear and hammer to AK47 parts as I have them also
I need to do a bunch of testing as to what to use

Most of the bolt mass and the main spring will be in front of the chamber and above the barrel

BUT so far the sticking point is giving the rifle a decent trigger pull
I made a mock up of the stock to try and get a decent trigger pull
Mushy and long was the best I have gotten so far

I figured I should address this BEFORE I start cutting the parts for the action

I had a thought , as I have seen them in high end rifles
A electronic rifle trigger

Are electronic triggers doable for a hobby maker ?
Or should I just work out a reasonable trigger linkage ?

Your thoughts ?

Thanks
John

[MaryB]

Better check laws pertaining to electronic trigger actuators...

[Tripplebeards]

Remington made one years ago it didn’t last long. Never saw one in person. I think they called it the E trigger. Think it was around 02’ or so?

[Winger Ed.]

Interesting.

I try to minimize things like that (especially on guns) so I'd have one less battery to worry about dying.
However; it seems do-able with off the shelf micro switches & stuff.

[Tripplebeards]

I’m with Ed. I would assume that’s why that E trigger never took off. The marketing gimmick at the time if I remember was a quicker lock time and a lighter pull trigger.

[abunaitoo]

Do a web search.
It has been done before, but never caught on.
I'm thinking that making it safe would be the biggest problem.

[Tripplebeards]

I didn’t watch the video yet, but this is what the one I was referring to



https://youtu.be/8qP6Q9ZEsEo?si=PJPC8wDUVLhNifDT

[M-Tecs]

Remington made one years ago it didn’t last long. Never saw one in person. I think they called it the E trigger. Think it was around 02’ or so?

It was based around an electronic primer. It did use an electronic trigger. The OP wants to use standard primers in a bullpup. Center stocked XP-100 and Bullpups normally used a long connecting rod to acuate the trigger. That does create trigger pull issues.

The Remington EltronX didn't live up to claims. Lots of them were converted back to standard fire control. The OP might be able to utilize one of the old EltronX trigger to release a standard sear with an actuator.

[Tripplebeards]

Yeah, I just watched the video on it. It was pretty entertaining.

[M-Tecs]

Two buddies have them. Both are converted to standard FC. The claimed zero lock time was mostly BS. It didn't account for the time it took the primer heat up and fire. It was quick when it worked properly When it was cold the lock time was more like a slow flintlock.

[Tripplebeards]

I have a few 700 rifles that have that goofy J lock on them that reminds me of the other innovative etronix ordeal as well for some reason. Eventually, I’ll get them all changed over to a normal firing pin spring and bolt shroud.

[truckerdave397]

Not to steal the thread but I am guessing those electric primers for a Remington rifle could be challenging to find.

[M-Tecs]

Not to steal the thread but I am guessing those electric primers for a Remington rifle could be challenging to find.

This was before they got really hard to find.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013085284/?pid=831855

[waksupi]

I can see myself pressing the trigger harder when the battery starts to die. Kind of like a TV remote.

[Shopdog]

I've got Timney Calvin elites on a cpl of my cast varmint vaporizers.....

And there's "better" triggers than these. Just sayin,good luck improving on these basically,over the counter target triggers. Not saying it "can't" be done.... but you're gonna need one heckuva nice machine shop,so "hobby" sorta ain't gonna cut it. Good luck with your project.

[kerplode]

Better check laws pertaining to electronic trigger actuators...

Yeah, for sure. Lots of potential for legal issues here.

Designing an electronic trigger actuator for a semi-auto that isn't "readily convertible into a machine gun" from a legal/ATF standpoint might be a difficult proposition.

That etronix situation was a bolt gun after all...Kind of impossible for a bolt gun to be a machine gun regardless of the trigger.

[JimB..]

Look up Electronic Arms. They made an electronic 10/22 drop in trigger pack and a bullpup also based on a 10/22 action. I have both around here somewhere, need to SBR the bullpup because it’s really fun suppressed.

I think the guy that designed these is in Raleigh NC. The firms real business is mil equip contracts.

[Thin Man]

When I hear anyone speaking about electronic rifle triggers I remember a friend who passed about a year ago. He was a retired commercial pilot who loved firearms and long range hunting. He had watched the movie Captain Phillips (Tom Hanks) and focused on the part where the Seals ended the hostage situation with 3 shots fired into the captors at the same instant. The movie suggested these shooters all fired when the command to do this was issued. His thought was to improve on that with electronic communication among the shooters and their commander. Their rifles would house a trigger that communicated with the commander. When any shooter had his sights on his assigned target he would pull and hold the trigger, yet release it if the target went out of vision. When all 3 shooters' were on target their commander could activate the triggers to function, thus 3 shots sounded like one. He actually built a proto-type of this system and submitted it to a U. S. military point of contact for evaluation and consideration. His offer was rejected. Didn't really hurt his feelings as he somewhat expected that to happen but he still believed he had a good idea. He was an innovative experimenter and a lot of fun to visit. Still miss him.

[beemer]

I can see myself pressing the trigger harder when the battery starts to die. Kind of like a TV remote.

Years ago I read article written by a professional African hunter. He said that it was hard to find native guides and trackers that could hit anything with a rifle. Most thought that the harder you pulled the trigger the harder the rifle shot.

[Rapier]

The electronic triggers were big in the late 70s and 80s in magazines. The electronic ignition ammo and guns by Remington were a total bust, and a different deal than electronic triggers, that still used a mechanical sear setup, just altered the let off by eliminating the mechanical levers, springs, etc.
We had several show up at the range, results were like owning a 450 Dillon, with the failure to fire, in a no mulligan match, you are done. So the electronics disappeared.

[Bmi48219]

I believe Electronic Triggers may still be used in some Free Olympic Pistols Events. Pardini produces one, the FPE single shot 22 caliber.

[Big Tom]

Not sure how much that helps, but there is a "Feinwerkbau FWB 90" competition air pistol that is using an adjustable electronic trigger. I still own this archaic model and regularly practice with it in my basement...
Maybe you can find some design plans that can give you some ideas how to do it.

[Ed K]

"Electronic trigger" - Point firearm downrange, manually pull trigger and AI decides when to fire based upon sight picture.

[Mk42gunner]

To somewhat get this thread back on track (yeah, right) there is a big difference between an electronic trigger and electronic primers.

I can see how micro switches and solenoids could be made to actuate a mechanical firing pin. The legality of doing such I'm not so sure of. Not to mention the practicality of having to have a battery to fire a small arm.

I have no problems with electrical priming, just not for small arms.

Robert

[Johnch]

Thanks for the ideas
John

[skeettx]

Remember Frank Green
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/electric-triggers.187265/?post_id=1460397&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-1460397

https://www.olympedia.org/athletes/44673

[jmorris]

Some electronic triggers are just mechanical designs that are tied to electronics. So you still have an impact on thee primer.

The remington used a special primer that only worked in them and regular primers were useless. It wasn't a good idea and failed.

Back in the mid '80's Krico sold some of their Kricotronic rifles through Beeman, a hand full off .22's and 3 or 4 centerfire, all bolt action. They used 9v batteries. I actually contacted them 15 or 20 years ago and they said they did try and sell the tech to walther and remington at one point.

They would probably be a no go on a semi as a simple timer circuit could make it full auto very easily, with batteries that allowed a faster cycle time.


Basically the system works on the same principle as a spot welder--low voltage and high amperage. The two 9-volt batteries, in series, provide 18 volts. The voltage is stored in two capacitors until the shooter releases the trigger. When the trigger is pulled a thyristor (a one-way electrical switch) opens and allows 300 amps to flow through an electrode that resides in the bolt where a firing pin would normally be. This electrode, made from tungsten, is spring-loaded so that it can rest, under tension, on the rear of the cartridge case (on a .22 rimfire of course it rests against the rim). Because the electrode is so small in diameter--.040 inch--when compared with the surface it's resting on (the primer), opening the thyristor releases the stored charge against the primer. Because it happens so rapidly the charge is converted into heat in micro-seconds. At the point of contact the heat reaches 3,500 degrees C, and since primers only need 400 degrees C in an instantaneous situation to detonate, the primer is fired.


https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Kricotronic%3A+electric+thunderbolt.-a03659515

[1066]

I have made a couple of electronic triggers that work well. I have an Olympic style air pistol, a Morini 162ei that has an electronic trigger. It's an excellent Swiss made pistol but unfortunately the electronic pack developed a fault. A new pack is around $350 so I decided I would try to make a replacement. My homemade replacement has been working for well over a year now with no problems.
I have subsequently made an air rifle using an electronic trigger that also works well.
This is my Morini 162ei replacement electronic pack:
324152

And a short clip of my electronic hammer design:
https://youtu.be/cBwPoKaZm8Y

[Cap'n Morgan]

I would most certainly go for a "mechanical" trigger. Make the connection rod from an arrow shaft - aluminum or carbon - it will be both stiff and lightweight.