Upgrading from single stage press

[cervelorod]

Have recently started reloading after a few years off. Picked up a AR-15 pistol in 300AC Blackout and screwed a nfa item to the end, and it has become my favorite thing to shoot. I am gathering equipment to start casting 200-220 grain bullets to load subsonic rounds for it. I have a couple of single stage presses, and an old Lee progressive, 3 stage, setup for 9mm. Have a bit of a space issue in my gun room and trying to decide if going full progressive or 4/5 stage turret is better for an upgrade.

I think I need at least 4 stages, 1 extra to expand for cast, but wondering if a turret press will be too labor intensive in the end. I expect to shoot 10,000-12,000 rounds a year.

I used to do a lot of 9mm, but I can find them reman’d today for not much more than I can reload myself. I cannot seem to find anyone doing Blackout reman’s.

I load for my hunting calibers, but don’t shoot so many that I feel I need anything besides single stage for them.

Anyone start with a turret and decide they should have gone progressive, or vice versa?

Thanks,
Rod

[cwtebay]

At that many rounds - a progressive is likely to be a better fit for your needs.
Freedom Munitions has reman 300 BO typically.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Tatume]

You can use a Dillon 550 as a turret press. Just remove the little brass pins and insert your cartridge in whichever shell holder slot you wish. After awhile you would probably start using it as a progressive press.

[Tatume]

P.s., you can usually find Dillon 550 presses for sale on this forum.

[Tall]

Agree, for that many rounds you need to think about something progressive. Look at your budget and see what is in stock.

[rancher1913]

go big----frankford arsenals new progressive with an auto drive and case feeder 8-)

[imashooter2]

Most people run progressives for bottle necks in 2 cycles. First is size and deprime, remove to trim, then change tool heads for primer, powder and boolit. If this is your plan, then just put your expander in the first slot of the second tool head.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK, lets define the difference between a Turret Press and a Progressive Press. First it should be noted that these machines are "Different Iterations" of Common Machines in Machine Shops for over 100 years.

First the Turret Press is a variant of the Turret Lathe. This machine has the tools necessary to produce a given part mounted on the turret (the Set up) and the tools are taken to the part and each operation is done and the Turret is indexed. The part is usually finished when the Turret makes a complete Revolution.

On a Turret Reloading Press each operation is performed on the cartridge case by pulling the handle and driving the case into each die and then rotating the Turret to the next die. IE: Resizing/De-Priming, Priming, Charging the Case, Seating the Bullet and Crimping it in place. 5 steps. Or 5 pulls of the handle and five indexes of the Turret.

A Progressive Reloading Press is an outgrowth of the "Multi Spindle Screw Machine." That machine has a Carousel of Spindles (between 5-9) that contain bars of stock. Each operation is done by its specific tool and then the Carousel indexes and it all happens again. "The Stock is taken to the Tools" Every station works it's operation at the same time all of the others are doing theirs. The last station has the "Cutoff Tool" which cuts the finished part off the bar. A new complete part is parted off every time the Carousel Indexes.

A Progressive Reloading Press works the same way. The Dies are held in a Fixed Tooling Plate. Every Operation is done to a Cartridge Case Every Time the Handle is Pulled. "The Cases are taken to the Dies."
A Finished Cartridge is ejected every time the Handle is Pulled.

The main difference between the two machines is, "One takes five pulls on the handle to make a loaded cartridge," "And the other produces a loaded round every time the handle is pulled."

The whole point of this is,,, If you need to load a Thousand Rounds of Ammunition it will take 5000 pulls of the handle to produce them on a Turret Press, But only 1000 pulls on the Progressive Machine. IE: 5 times the work to produce the same amount of ammo. Believe me, pulling on the handle thousands of times gets old really fast. [smilie=s:

So how many rounds do you intend to shoot?

Randy.

[Tatume]

Most people run progressives for bottle necks in 2 cycles. First is size and deprime, remove to trim, then change tool heads for primer, powder and boolit. If this is your plan, then just put your expander in the first slot of the second tool head.

If using the Dillon 550 with an RCBS X die no trim is needed. The stages are size & deprime & reprime, dispense powder (& bell if cast bullets are being used), seat bullets.

[cervelorod]

That is an excellent point, so many handle pulls... we have averaged 1000-1500 rounds a month, planning 15k per year

[Rockindaddy]

The Dillon 550C is a good choice. I am warry of Lee progressives. Have 2 Dillon 550C presses and a Super 1050 plus an old stainless RL 1000 I load 30 06 on. The Dillon no BS warrantee is solid. The Hornady Progressive works good too! I load 44-40wcf, 38-40 wcf, 44 spec, & 44 Mag on one. WR has a good point! Each pull of the handle produces a loaded round. Forget about a turret press! Too slow.

[oldhenry]

There is nothing worse that a progressive that has reliability issues (I sometimes have nightmares about the Green Machine that I battled with in the "80's).

The Dillon 550 is the greatest thing (reloading wise) that happened to me. A 550 was purchased in the early '90's & a 550C added later. One is set up for small primers & the other for large primers.

I did have a Lyman AA turret press to load small batches of .40 S&W for my son. It was OK, but not in the same league with the Dillons.

[Mk42gunner]

OK, lets define the difference between a Turret Press and a Progressive Press. First it should be noted that these machines are "Different Iterations" of Common Machines in Machine Shops for over 100 years.

First the Turret Press is a variant of the Turret Lathe. This machine has the tools necessary to produce a given part mounted on the turret (the Set up) and the tools are taken to the part and each operation is done and the Turret is indexed. The part is usually finished when the Turret makes a complete Revolution.

On a Turret Reloading Press each operation is performed on the cartridge case by pulling the handle and driving the case into each die and then rotating the Turret to the next die. IE: Resizing/De-Priming, Priming, Charging the Case, Seating the Bullet and Crimping it in place. 5 steps. Or 5 pulls of the handle and five indexes of the Turret.

A Progressive Reloading Press is an outgrowth of the "Multi Spindle Screw Machine." That machine has a Carousel of Spindles (between 5-9) that contain bars of stock. Each operation is done by its specific tool and then the Carousel indexes and it all happens again. "The Stock is taken to the Tools" Every station works it's operation at the same time all of the others are doing theirs. The last station has the "Cutoff Tool" which cuts the finished part off the bar. A new complete part is parted off every time the Carousel Indexes.

A Progressive Reloading Press works the same way. The Dies are held in a Fixed Tooling Plate. Every Operation is done to a Cartridge Case Every Time the Handle is Pulled. "The Cases are taken to the Dies."
A Finished Cartridge is ejected every time the Handle is Pulled.

The main difference between the two machines is, "One takes five pulls on the handle to make a loaded cartridge," "And the other produces a loaded round every time the handle is pulled."

The whole point of this is,,, If you need to load a Thousand Rounds of Ammunition it will take 5000 pulls of the handle to produce them on a Turret Press, But only 1000 pulls on the Progressive Machine. IE: 5 times the work to produce the same amount of ammo. Believe me, pulling on the handle thousands of times gets old really fast. [smilie=s:

So how many rounds do you intend to shoot?

Randy.
This is the best explanation of the differences between turret and progressive reloading presses I can remember reading. Thanks Randy.

Myself, I don't really like manual indexing of a progressive press. I prefer auto indexing if I am going to have a progressive.

On the other hand, I also don't like using a turret press and moving the turret head for every stroke. My method is to process brass in batches and use a turret press much like a single stage. Hey it works for me.

Robert

[ascast]

my two sense - turrets are a joke - you still have to load / unload every case for every operation. Unless your some weirdo who rotates the turret to avoid the loading / reloading steps, you will save maybe 1 minute per 100 or 500 rounds. The ONLY time saved is that used to unscrew one die and screw in another.
I did use one for BPCR when I had several neck operation per case. Rating the head got old very quickly and I went back to batch processing step by step.
So, get a progressive. Single feed it until you have learned how to monitor the primer operation, powder feed, bullet feed and seating. Start slow, expect troubles while you climb the learning curve.
good luck

[dverna]

10-15K rounds a year is a lot. I have been there (and a bit higher)

You will not be happy with a 550 IMO. I know I wasn't. No way you want to do that with a turret press unless you really enjoy reloading...btw some people do!

So here are my thoughts:

On the 550 you will produce about 350-400 rounds per hour
On the 750 you will produce about 500-600 per hour
On the 1050 you will produce about 700-750 per hour

Some people will go faster. I have but I also had 20 primer tubes loaded and that takes time.

In addition, if you are casting, a four cavity mold will produce about 400 bullets an hour. Lubing and sizing depends on what you are using. I have a Star and without adding GC's (you will not need them) that will process about 800-1000 bullets an hour. You might want to look at powder coat but you still need size so even with the Lee push through system you cannot do more than 1000/hr and then you add the time to PC

So work the numbers and then factor in your "love" of casting and reloading.

Based on the above numbers, to produce your 15k a year:

Casting 38 hours
Sizing on a Star 15 hours
Time to PC if you go that way...I do not PC...others will chime in.

Minimum of 40 hours to make the bullets

Time to sort, inspect, clean brass...depends on how you do it.

Time to reload:
550 - 40 hours
750 - 25 hours
1050 - 20 hours

When I was shooting a lot, I used a 1050 and Star. But I do not enjoy the process...YMMV

BTW, do not even consider anything other than a Dillon. The machines are very reliable with a proven track record. Many folks get the other makes to work and you will hear that. Some are lucky and some are talented in trouble shooting and most do not shoot that volume of rounds. I have never heard of anyone who could not get a Dillon to work well....and IMO if a person cannot run a Dillon they should not be reloading.

[ascast]

what he said ( don verna )

[rbuck351]

+2 for dverna. The only thing I might disagree with is I do like the process. However if I was doing 12/15 thousand a year, the process would become less likeable.

[lightload]

Some have used a Lee progressive for sizing and expanding and then prime off the press. This way produces a batch of brass ready for the other steps on a turret press.

[onelight]

At a thousand rounds of 1 cartridge a month I would go progressive for sure . And would try to get one with more stations than I think need :bigsmyl2:
But would keep a single stage and or a turret for the other things I load .
I don't know if there is a perfect setup for us that have limited space , time and or budgets . But there are many ways to make it all work.
Half the fun and satisfaction is putting together the best system that fits all our needs.

[dverna]

At a thousand rounds of 1 cartridge a month I would go progressive for sure . And would try to get one with more stations than I think need :bigsmyl2:
But would keep a single stage and or a turret for the other things I load .
I don't know if there is a perfect setup for us that have limited space , time and or budgets . But there are many ways to make it all work.
Half the fun and satisfaction is putting together the best system that fits all our needs.

Space isn’t the problem. I have a 6 foot bench and can mount multiple presses using the In-line system. I have the 1050 and 550 permanently mounted and the In-Line mounts a Co-Ax, RCBS RC, Lee 6000, RCBS bench prime, Star lubrisizer, Lyman 450, and plate with a vise.

A perfect setup requires multiple machines that can be switched out rapidly. The In-Line system does that. I regret not getting it years ago. I once had a 600 sq ft reloading shop with 10 machines set up. I did not need that much space.

[Bazoo]

cervelorod, Howdy and welcome to the forum!



Randy, That's a great post, thank you!

[Finster101]

A Dillon 650 if you can find one or 750 would do fine for what you need. Tool heads make caliber changes quick and easy. Dillon offers excellent customer support. Plenty of online tutorials and easy parts availability. It took me a long time to get a 650. I kick myself sometimes thinking about all the years I FOUGHT with other machines. Save yourself the frustration.