Die, Shellholder Brand Match

[William Yanda]

I have seen recommendations that shellholders should match the brand of the dies. How critical is this? Has anyone encountered a difficulty that could not be overcome by adjustment?

[onelight]

I can't think of how it would make any difference with straight wall cases but with bottle neck cases it seems a poor match could change headspace .
Maybe someone more experience will give us a more qualified answer .

[Shawlerbrook]

Where is that written ?

[onelight]

If the thickness of the top portion on one brand of shell holder is different from another brand and the sizing dies are cut to match the brands shell holders it could make a difference on how far the brass would push into the sizer die .
To be clear I don't know if there is a universal standard for shell holder dimensions perhaps one of the more knowledgeable members can educate us :-)

[racepres]

I never sweated that stuff...

If the thickness of the top portion on one brand of shell holder is different from another brand and the sizing dies are cut to match the brands shell holders it could make a difference on how far the brass would push into the sizer die .
To be clear I don't know if there is a universal standard for shell holder dimensions perhaps one of the more knowledgeable members can educate us :-)

I think that you will find that they are Called
"Universal Shell Holders"

[onelight]

I grabbed a Lee and rcbs 223 shell holder and took a few quick measurements .
First # is Lee 2nd rcbs Lee Rcbs
OAL height . .497 .502
From shelf where
The case head sets
To top of shell holder. .127 .125
Thickness of shell
Holder part that sits
On top of the ram to
Where it touches the
Die . . 244 .250

I have mixed brands for 50 years and had no problems , but bottle neck rifle is a very small portion of what I load . But it looks to me if the die is set to touch the shell holder the would be a small difference from case head to shoulder using these two shell holders with the same die.
If a guy was looking for for an exact shoulder length it might be worth doing more research.

[gwpercle]

If you have set up and adjusted Lee 9mm Luger dies with a Lee shell holder ...
and been reloading with that setup ...
Then mistakenly grab a CH shell holder and put it in the press by mistake ... your 9mm reloads will not be right ...
I removed the CH shell holder , installed the Lee shell holder and all my reloads were back to normal ... took me a few minutes to sort this one out !

I'm sure I could have re-adjusted the dies to work with the CH shell holder but I didn't want to do that . I have a set of Lee Carbide 9mm dies with a Lee shell holder and an older set of CH Steel 9mm dies with a CH shell holder...
I'm one of those who likes to keep the die maker and shell holder maker... Matched . When I bought my first set of dies in 1967 the Gunshop owner advised buying the die maker's shell holders ... told me that was the best way .
Gary

[Bazoo]

It doens't make a difference as to brand, but changing brands when you have something set up for precision can cause problems. As stated above, 9mm, or for bumping shoulders or seating bullets.

[243winxb]

Deck height should be close to .125" on newer shell sholder. Old, not always, so i was told?

Best to measure.

[jetinteriorguy]

I keep dedicated shell holders for each task, doesn’t matter which brand you use just use the same one for each task for uniformity. I have found over the years occasionally I’ll have an issue with a certain brand but have never had issues with either Hornady or RCBS.

[LabGuy]

The NRA Basics of Metallic Cartridge Reloading lesson plans say to use the same manufacturer. But I tell my students it’s usually ok to mix and match, but it’s something to keep in mind if they have a problem.

[Binky]

When setting up a die, it really doesn't make a difference. But, if you change out the die and then later reinstall using a different brand shell holder you will probably have to make some adjustments. Also, depending on how you prime, (on press or with bench mounted machine) not all shell holders have the same size hole in the center and some will not allow passage of the primer seat.:coffee:

[stubshaft]

Never had a problem with mixing and matching shellholders.

[lightman]

I match my shell holder to the die brand. Had a shooting buddy get into headspace problems once by mixing brands. I don't remember the brands involved. I have a single RCBS shell holder that I use for all of the calibers that it fits when using my RCBS dies but I have individual shell holders for my Redding dies. But doing some measurements after swapping them with RCBS showed no difference.

Binky says it better than I did. 243Winxb posted a good picture.

[Texas by God]

Never had a problem with mixing and matching shellholders.

It’s a good thing too, because I don’t have any CH, Lyman, Redding,or Hornady shell holders- only RCBS and Lee.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oley55]

At the risk of going off into the weeds, this discussion got me to thinking about comparing a universal Lee shell holder with a Dillon 450/550 Shell Plate.

Lee - 0.125"
Dillon 0.119"
diff. 0.006"

For what it's worth with my lame Pittsburg Digital Calipers.

[SSGOldfart]

Humm good question, I mix and match what ever is handy at the time OAL should let you know if your round is off. which means your adjusting your dies to fix the problem

[nicholst55]

I reached the point many years ago where I dedicate a shell holder to each set of dies. That way, once the dies are adjusted, I don't have to worry about things changing if I grab a different shell holder. I have never adhered to the 'same brand' of shell holders and dies, and never had a problem due to that.

[jmorris]

I have seen recommendations that shellholders should match the brand of the dies. How critical is this? Has anyone encountered a difficulty that could not be overcome by adjustment?

If you use the "crank die down to contact" (even if you do some fraction of a turn +/- after that), you are using the shell holder as a reference. If there is not an industry standard and tolerance, you will have different results, with different brands, with bottle neck cases. Not unlike trying to put chevy 5 lug wheels on a ford, same but different...

If you set your dies like this, it won't matter at all because the top of the shell holder is never used as a reference point.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWkcLPYOac

[deltaenterprizes]

I have seen LEE dies that would not fully size a 223 case even with a turn past contact with the shellholder. I had to turn a few thousandths off the bottom of the die to make it work.
I could have taken a few thousandths off the shellholder too.
Redding made or makes a set of shellholders of various heights to control the amount of shoulder set back.

[quack1]

You can even have minor problems with matching dies and shellholders. I bought RCBS dies and RCBS shellholder when I got my 22-250. A buddy gave me a partial box of factory ammunition he had left from when he had a 22-250 (he never reloaded). After firing it and some I loaded with new brass, the first reloading, sized with full contact between the die and shellholder, wouldn't quite chamber. Found out the shoulder wasn't getting pushed back enough. I ground a little bit off the top of the shellholder and the problem went away. I figure tolerance stacking between the chamber and sizing die was the culpret, since the factory ammunition chambered fine. Just luck of the draw that I had die at the big end of tolerance and a chamber at the small end.

[Kestrel4k]

Interesting discussion; I seldom mix&match, but will keep this in mind going forward. Am about to reload for a 257Roberts with a /very/ tight chamber, and this might be a trick to use actually.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I prefer Lee dies. I have a whole long story about my love/hate relationship with Lee dies, but I won't go into all that in this thread, except shell holders, since that is the topic du joir.
Of my many sets of Lee dies (maybe 25 sets?) I have had at least 4 shell holders that were out of spec, and worse yet one was not squarely machined. At some point after I had more than one Lee shell holder issue, I ordered a complete set of Lyman brand shell holders, and also, whenever I see a shell holder collection at a gunshow for a few bucks, I buy them for my stash.

So, I am in the unmatched camp, LOL.

[BK7saum]

I use a single shellholder for all dies in that case head category. No way I am dedicating a shellholder for each die set, that would be close to $500 just in shellholders.

Most of my loading is bottleneck rifle cartridges. I never bottom out the die on the shellholder unless that happens to be the headspace measurement for sizing I need. I measure off the shoulder with the Hornady comparator and bump 0.001-0.002" for bolt actions and 0.0015-0.003" for semi-autos.

Changing shellholders from the one used to set up the dies can definitely screw up you die sizing and ammunition, either rendering it unusable due to a longer shoulder or shortening case life by sizing too much.

[ascast]

what he said ^^^^

[35 Rem]

I reached the point many years ago where I dedicate a shell holder to each set of dies. That way, once the dies are adjusted, I don't have to worry about things changing if I grab a different shell holder. I have never adhered to the 'same brand' of shell holders and dies, and never had a problem due to that.

I do the same. As a result, I have a pile of duplicate RCBS #3 shell holders I think it is that fits the common 30-06 case head. Also, it's just plain convenient to not have to look for the correct shell holder every time you open up a box of dies.

[rintinglen]

I don't care who made my shell holder, as long as it is the one I used to set the dies in the first place. I have never had a problem due to shell holder-die mismatch, though I did once have a C-H set of 250 savage dies that I had to modify to get the shoulder set back to allow proper chambering in my rifle. That, however, was a rifle chamber/die mismatch, not anything due to the shell holder.

[popper]

I have a shell holder in each die box. And I adjust/grind the bottom of the die (if needed) to allow proper headspace. I tried grinding a shell holder - nope, too hard.

[jmorris]

I have seen recommendations that shellholders should match the brand of the dies. How critical is this? Has anyone encountered a difficulty that could not be overcome by adjustment?

FWIW Co-ax owners don't use normal shell holders, it's a whole different animal but you can use various brands of dies in them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3AGbx5YVZk