.455 webley mk-IV re-loading help

[Soundguy]

Ok.. So I have a mk IV webley in .455. It's of course shaved. In the past I used auto rim brass and trail boss to load it using the tb 70% start formula. ( 70% of free case space under bullet ). The auto rim brass is roomy like acp..i really didn't have a pressure concern.

A while back I got a stainless spacer ring that allows normal 455 cases to headspace perfectly. I had no 455 cases..so it sat. Recently found 175 cases.. 75 are hornady Mk-II and the 100 are fioochi and look to be Mk-II cases as well.

They are smaller ( shorter ) cases than acp or AR cases ..etc..

So..im using a lead 160gr bullet..want to make low pressure plinker rounds.. Which is why I didn't go 250-255. I figure lower projectile weight..lower pressure.. Everyone happy...and a paper plate at 5 yds won't care.

Marked case at bullet base. These seem to hold 3.95gr of trail boss. ( 3.9 line just under..4.0..line just over.. Etc on a balance beam ).

So..using 70% and dropping the 2nd digit because I can't set it on the scale anyway.. My start load calculates to 2.7gr trail boss.

Anyone else loading for a mk-IV using Mk-II cases and trail boss see any problems with my procedure?

I know the mkIV was likely a cordite gun..and most lump that into smokeless frame..but I see some sources lump it with black powder frames.

None of my books have print load data..lyman 49,50,51, cast bullet handbook, pistol handbook. None on hodgdon or alliant..none in speer, hornady, nosler or Lee.... None in western.

So I'm down to the trail boss universal formula.

Opinions solicited. I'd love to keep shooting this old girl with real 455 brass

[Outpost75]

I load 3.5 grains of Bullseye with Accurate 45-264H in Starline MkII brass for mine. This load shoots to the sights. Velocity is 600 fps. Lighter bullets than 230 grains shot poorly in mine.

[cwtebay]

I load 3.5 grains of Bullseye with Accurate 45-264H in Starline MkII brass for mine. This load shoots to the sights. Velocity is 600 fps. Lighter bullets than 230 grains shot poorly in mine.Mine is un-shaved and I use the same. Velocity is a bit higher, but outcome is the same as Outpost.

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[Baltimoreed]

I shot my MkVI 4 inch this past weekend in my cas club’s match. 160 gr rn with 3.5 gr Bullseye. Also used a Webley Wilkinson 1911 but it was shaved so I used AR brass. About the same load but a little heavier boolit. Theres not enough difference between .455, .45acp, autorim, .45 cowboy special to make much difference in light loads imo.
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[Soundguy]

Anyone see a problem with 2.7gr trail boss?

[Baltimoreed]

I tried trail boss and didn’t like it, sorry.

[Soundguy]

Accuracy issue or?

[Outpost75]

Accuracy issue or?

TB generates higher pressure than Bullseye. Requires heavy bullet for caliber for good ballistic uniformity. Irregular velocity with light bullets in less than full charges.
Bullets lighter than 240 grains problematic.

[Baltimoreed]

I was trying it in my 1903 Springfields in 193 gr lead loads for BAMM shoots. It shot ok but I didn’t like how it metered. I switched over to V-V Tin Star and like it much better. Sadly V-V has discontinued it but I’ve got 2 more bottles left. Both loads were close to the same weight though, around 9 gr but the TB about filled the case. I don’t remember using it in any pistol loads. Thinking that I gave half of it away to another cas shooter.

[Soundguy]

I wish someone would publish some 455 data. None of the major publications do.

[Baltimoreed]

Heres the only info Ive got. Bullseye and Unique are the only modern powders listed. 45acp Bullseye [the shooting sport not the powder] target load info would be where I would start.
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[Soundguy]

Wow...lyman 43rd!

Thanks... That gives me at least a published unique and bullseye load.

Thanks!

[challenger_i]

THANKS Ed! :)


Heres the only info Ive got. Bullseye and Unique are the only modern powders listed. 45acp Bullseye [the shooting sport not the powder] target load info would be where I would start.
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[Outpost75]

Be advised that the older Lyman 43 data was NOT pressure tested and was based upon firings in the longer 0.87" CIL-Dominion .455 Colt case. Those loads are excessive for top-break revolvers if assembled in the shorter 0.76" .455 MkII cases as produced by Fiocchi, Hornady and Starline. The S&W Hand Ejector and Colt New Service are tolerant of heavier loads up to 700 fps with 265 grain lead bullets and the older Lyman data is of no issue in those stronger, solid-frame, swing-out cylinder revolvers.

The 3.5 grain charge of Bullseye was tested by Larry Gibson in his TC Contender pistol with strain gage and Oehler 43 PBL interface and has been well proven as safe and satisfactory.

[HWooldridge]

My experience has been that those very light bullets in the 150-160 gr range have a tendency to shoot very low. I made up some gallery loads for my Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt with a 160 gr boolit and was unable to raise the rear sight enough to offset the POI. Grouping was nicht sehr gut either. I just melted down the shorties and cast 250's - POI elevated back to the usual settings.

[Outpost75]

Mine is un-shaved and I use the same. Velocity is a bit higher, but outcome is the same as Outpost.

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Barrel-cylinder gap is as important as barrel.length. Many British top-break revolvers have large barrel-cylinder gaps of 0.010" or more. Velocity will be a full 100 fps less than a Colt New Service having been professionally refitted to a minimum gap of 0.004" pass / 0.005" hold.

My rebuilt 3.5 inch New Service .45 "Pocket Blaster" produces the same velocity with WW2 service loads as my 1914 New Service .455.
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[Soundguy]

Using the shorter Mk-II case, looks like if I use the starting load of 2.5gr bullseye on a 250gr swaged bullet ( Speer 4684 ) I should be ok with fps in the 570-600fps range.? Yes?

[Outpost75]

Using the shorter Mk-II case, looks like if I use the starting load of 2.5gr bullseye on a 250gr swaged bullet ( Speer 4684 ) I should be ok with fps in the 570-600fps range.? Yes?

More like 500 fps if it even exits the barrel. Again, depends upon barrel-cylinder gap.
Take your squibb rod and dead blow hammer along. 3 grains should be safe at 1.20" OAL.

[Soundguy]

More like 500 fps if it even exits the barrel. Again, depends upon barrel-cylinder gap.
Take your squibb rod and dead blow hammer along. 3 grains should be safe at 1.20" OAL.

3gr, even using the short mkII cases?

Another comment got me thinking too... I have a colt new service marked 455 elley. Never have fired it... Never before had and 455 webley ammo. I need to dig that gun out...

Ok..in the mean time..just did some measurements. The hornady Mk-II cases are indeed .76"
I made up a dummy with my soft swaged Speer 4684 swc..its oal is 1.11"

I'm going to make up 2 cylinder fills..1 for each gun. I'll start with 2.5 on my first test..then try 3. I'll be mindful of squibbs!

Ps..appreciate the help guys, thanks.

[challenger_i]

I'm jealous! :)


Barrel-cylinder gap is as important as barrel.length. Many British top-break revolvers have large barrel-cylinder gaps of 0.010" or more. Velocity will be a full 100 fps less than a Colt New Service having been professionally refitted to a minimum gap of 0.004" pass / 0.005" hold.

My rebuilt 3.5 inch New Service .45 "Pocket Blaster" produces the same velocity with WW2 service loads as my 1914 New Service .455.
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[Outpost75]

I'm jealous! :)


You have to want it.

Bubba'ed New Service off Gunbroker for $400.

Old barrel scrapped due to cracking found in MagnaFlux inspection.

Sandy Garrett at Nova Gun Works fitted 3-1/2" piece of new Douglas barrel, removed cylinder end-shake, corrected timing, performed necessary corrective action work, fabricated new front sight, silver soldered, targeted, matte blued. So $750 in gunsmithing work.

Gun is scary-accurate with Fiocchi, Hornady or Dominion-CIL .455 ammo which I have in adequate supply. Speer 250-grain Deep Curl in CIL .455 Colt brass with 4 grains of Bullseye expands to 0.60" and stops in 4th gallon water jug.

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[Soundguy]

Wow... Fantastic....thats a motor cycle....... My old webley mkiv with 2.5-3 gr bullseye and a 250gr soft swaged bullet will be like a tricycle!

[Soundguy]

Finally had some range time today. Sent 250gr swaged Speer over 2.5gr ��.

Performed great. I setup up targets at 20' and used a dirtpile as a backdrop. Point of aim at that distance was dead on. Dug a few bullets to check. They went in about 1'.

Good rifling marks..no smears.

Felt good but mild. For the old MK-IV. Pretty happy. Don't think I'm even going to try 3gr...im sure my fps is between 500-600 ..but very shootable.