So..... .17 cal cast

[Wolfdog91]

So.....anyone every played with cast bullets in .17 cal centerfires ?
Recently got into the world of .17 cal centerfires with building a AR in 17-5.56 KAK and gotta say it's been stupid fun so far [emoji41][emoji16]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240201/dd150ec321b6fbf4fbaa031e9b678ff2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240201/c5d22242ba6b316571ec4ecad2243563.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240201/997b04323a83e43ec3608455062095aa.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240201/48b31cd7ed6ac20710ddb09ea733e3cd.jpg

That being said as usual I got curious about this with other stuff , figured someone out here has had to have done some casting for .17 cal legacy cartridges at some point but have seen anything really past this

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240201/59ff28c8aec75783176838b0edafbfe1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240201/b09ac33deb4effbaf34a218efa89be3f.jpg

And since I guess this barrel will burn out in 2000 or so rounds might be something fun to play with when that happens with some super hard alloy since NOE makes molds and sizers https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240201/1e15793a29f1fc74fda50aeb92963156.jpg

Now I won't be trying to push it all 4200fps of course but maybe up to 2500? Throw the burnt bareelly into a side charging upper and turn the gas off ? Idk yet .
Anyhow .17 cal who's messed with it ?


Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Recycled bullet]

Fantastic man thank you for sharing that.

[Winger Ed.]

That's a cool project.

It might be a good candidate for casting with Zinc.
You could probably get it on up to 3,000-ish fps and it'd do well.

[405grain]

Wolfdog: Because you started out casting 22 caliber boolits you already know that the smaller the bullet diameter is the more difficult it is to get good results. Voids and inclusions that are minuscule in a 30 caliber or larger bullet are gigantic inside a 17 caliber. Also, the amount of alloy being cast can have a hard time keeping the molds up to temperature. All things being equal, if it were me I'd try swaging 17 caliber bullets rather than casting them. That being said, I don't want to dissuade you, just pointing out that you'd be accepting a challenge.

I go varmint hunting in the Springtime for ground squirrels. There are lots of varminters that shoot 17 caliber. These can range from everything from the 17 Hornet, 17 Bee, 17 HMR, 17 Mark IV, 17 Pee Wee, and other wildcats. I've never encountered anyone using the 17 Remington (17 caliber 223) as I have heard that it is overbore, and it fouls the barrel and requires cleaning often. (I have no experience with this round, and have not met anyone who has, so take that opinion with a grain of salt.) The first hand experience I do have with 17 calibers is that they are very accurate, have little bullet drop over range, and are devastating on varmints out to 200+ yards. Their drawback is that they are wind sensitive. A cross wind seems to push them around more than 22 calibers. Note that this is all with jacketed bullets, I have yet to see anyone varminting with lead bullets besides 22LR. Cast bullets have a greater tendency to ricochet than more frangible jacketed varmint bullets. In wide open country this may not be an issue, but on settled farm land it would be a significant factor. Of the NOE designs that you posted I think that the 172-26-FN-BM2 looks the best, simply because it's a gas checked design. Plain based bullets can only go so high in velocity, while gas checked bullets can do all that the plain based ones can, plus a lot more.

[mike_kaleigh]

Are you a masochist? Sounds cool and a challenge. I know the 17 rem had issues with barrel fouling with j boolits. you could use the hardest most expensive alloy you ever want and get 200 boolits per pound. Good luck keep use informed.

[cwtebay]

A very good client cast me several hundred bullets for my 17 Remington. They were ridiculously hard cast. I can't say that I ever have heard a ricochet or seen anything other than red mist through the scope. I did clean after firing, but found little to no fouling.
He also cast down to 12 Squirrel (claimed that 10 Squirrel was beyond his abilities).
I wish I could pass along his wisdom, but he passed last July.


Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Minerat]

I load for a .17HH and have the NOE 172-26 and the 172-32 lost the range I belonged to in 2022 just as I was starting to test them. I looked to get 22lr velocities out of them so i only got the 32's to 1922 fps using 7.0 gr CFEblact before I quit. Accuracy was reasonable but could be better. The little boolits are hard to get a reading on with my Labradar but the 26gr i was getting 1686 with 6.5 gr CFEBlack

Hint you have to cast fast really fast or the mold gets cold and the boolits begin to wrinkle. Faster then 224's or stop every 8 or 10 casts to reheat the mold on a hot plate. I also found out what real fun begins when installing GC's on a piece of rice.

Here's a discussion on casting and loading the NOE Boolits you might find interesting.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?347583-Cast-Boolits-and-my-CZ-527-V-in-17-Hornet

[Minerat]

Forgot, I powder coat mine too.

[stubshaft]

I hav been a fan of the lowly .17 for many years. I read about them in P.O. Ackleys books and was hooked! You sir are a better man than I am as I have never cast for my c.17 centerfire rifles, I have cast some .17 cal. pellets using a mold that Veral made for me about 35 years ago. That was a challenge in itself...

[uscra112]

I had enough trouble getting good bullets for my .228 Harwood Hornet. No thank you.

Doing .17 is just showing off.

[bronte454]

Wolfdog watched several of your videos tonight. I’ve got a 17 Remington in a Contender barrel 23” . I’ve looked at getting a 17 Remington barrel for an AR multiple times just never committed. I’ve talked to a guy and read a little bit on making lead bullets harder . The Zinc is one way to go but do some reading on it , as I understand it zinc can eat through the Lee lead pots . Noe I believe is making a replacement bowl to use on the Lee melting pot . I watched full lead taco on YouTube talking about it last week or so . And the second option is to make the lead really hard . From what I’ve read and talk with the guy about is using copper sulfate . I think it’s main ingredient stump killer , it’s been 2 yrs since that conversation. It is blue . I believe you can get it in crystal form , maybe a powder , and I believe he was using liquid to stir into melted lead . I don’t remember why it doesn’t do the tinsel fairy thing , but he said just keep stirring. He was making 300 grain cast boolits in Australia to shoot big water Buffalo with . He wanted to make his own dangerous game boolit for 375 Raptor which I was building @ the time . Do some research on both methods if you’re convinced you wanna try . For 17’s I’ll stick with copper condoms . I’m trying some cast in 6mm ARC this Spring and I’ve got 6.5 Grendel that I want to load some cast boolits for . I’ve got the Lee 140grn, the RCBS 140grn, Lyman 150grn(drops156 for me), and I’ve got the Lee 170 Grn . All gas checked. Outdoor EDventures loaded the Horny160 Grn condom bullet in 6.5 Grendel at 2200 fps ( I think) maybe slower and I figured if he can load those the cast 170 ought to be a breeze since lead runs at lower pressure due to less friction. For the 6 ARC I’ve got the RCBS 95 Grn gas check and the NOE 106 Grn gas checked. So far I’ve just loaded some lite loads for case fire forming the shoulder good . Good luck and holler anytime.

[rayh]

uscraa112- could you give some spec's on the 228 Harwood. I shoot ground squirrels with a guy who knew him well but doesn't recall that round. Did he use a .228 dia bullet? Harwood was a big experimenter from what he's told me. thanks

[cwtebay]

uscraa112- could you give some spec's on the 228 Harwood. I shoot ground squirrels with a guy who knew him well but doesn't recall that round. Did he use a .228 dia bullet? Harwood was a big experimenter from what he's told me. thanksDidn't Harwood live in latter half of the 19th / beginning of the 20th century?
Not poaching an answer, but I believe it is .228 diameter. I sold an extra 22 WCF mold to someone who owned a Harwood a couple of years ago.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Minerat]

Doing .17 is just showing off.

Masochistic, trust me.[smilie=l:

[dverna]

Wolf is persistent and I hope he shows you old pharts up...LOL

I am not good enough to even try .22 cal. never mind .17's. Thankfully I can still afford J bullets for a while.

[rayh]

Wolfdog- really watching your progress . I've had the 26 gr and 32 gr since NOE put them out but have not tried to cast them. Many years ago Lee made a run of 17 cal molds. Turns out it was a .177 for an air rifle. Not being very smart I tumbled lube and shot them as cast in a 17 AH. Looking back they actually shot better than they should have. Your case is way too big for my tastes, I have an assortment of much smaller cases to try out when I do get casting for the 17's. Good luck. cwtebay I need to talk to my buddy but he's like 77 and I would guess they shot together in the 70"s. Part of that group was one of the Hodgdon's. Don't recall the 3rd guy. Jim said they were true die in the wool wildcatters.

[quilbilly]

With my old arthritic fingers, I have enough trouble handling the .22 pills.

[gwpercle]

:holysheep ...
As far as I know .... You is the only Person Messing with a 17/223 Project !

And it sounds Pretty Danged Awesome :awesome:

Keep us updated and good luck ... I love your mould choice :drinks:
Gary

[MT Gianni]

I have a 17 Remington contender bbl that is 14" with a 22 lr stub added so it totals 16". The cartridge is overbore but not excessively to involve extra cleaning. I do run a patch through it ever 25 rounds.
I don't think zinc is the answer to hardening bullet alloys. Look at Rotometals enrichment alloys that add copper and nickel to ww lead. It isn't cheap but it works and gives you a good working alloy.

[country gent]

One of the problems casting small bullets is the lack of mass to keep mould hot. Thinking on this I wonder if a couple riser beside the cavities and maybe between them. just a extra hole thru spru plate and close to bottom of mould. fill these first then cavities. Might help with mould temps and fill out. a couple 1/4" or so holes filled right before cavities would help with temps. and bring spru up for bullets.

[uscra112]

uscraa112- could you give some spec's on the 228 Harwood. I shoot ground squirrels with a guy who knew him well but doesn't recall that round. Did he use a .228 dia bullet? Harwood was a big experimenter from what he's told me. thanks

Reuben Harwood was active in gunsmithing and gun writing ~1885 to maybe 1900. He died in 1911, so anybody who "knew him well" would be at least 130 years old today. His nom de plume was Iron Ramrod. There's as much as is known about him in an article by Jim Foral in the Spring 2020 issue of Black Powder Cartridge News. His "Hornet" was introduced 1894. It was a necked-down .25-20 Stevens case, looked for all the world like a 2R Lovell with a very long neck. He would rebarrel rifles, and provide dies, formed brass, and loaded ammunition from his shop in Somerville, Mass. As far as anyone knows the nominal round took a .228 bullet, (mine does) but as he offered to rechamber other .22s there could have been some with other diameters. Ideal made reloading tools, and Stevens catalogued it as an alternate chambering for a couple of years. Tom Rowe has told me that he has an Ideal tong tool so marked. Best guess is that 100-150 rifles might have been made. For the years since I bought it, (about 2016), I've believed I might have the only one still in existence, but in the last month a fellow ASSRA member has come up with the one that Grant described in Still More Single Shot Rifles. (It appears to slug .229.) If anyone knows of another I'm all ears.

[Tripplebeards]

I had 17 Rem limited run stainless 26” 700 about a decade or so ago. Came with a HS precision stock. After a bunch of load testing with 25 grain Bergers I could never get it to shoot tight enough groups and sent it down the road. Spent the profit on a POF P415 that shoots groups tighter at 300 yards then my 17 Rem did at 100. That looks like a fun project. Keep us posted.