Update 9mm problems with cast boolets

[Abenaki]

Sorry, that I have not gotten back to you sooner.

With bad weather and work. I could not test my reloads with the changes that I made, till todat.

thanks to you guys my problems are solved!

I was over crimping big time. I did not know this till I was into the problem solving.

What did I do. I stopped crimping. Just smoothed out the flare in the case mouth.

I also went from lubing with Carnuba red, to using a 50/5o that I had laying around.
Since I broke the rule of only changing one thing at a time. I do not know if the lube was a problem.

But, that is not a problem. That will give me the excuse to try different lube.......which means more shooting for me!

Thanks guys for all of you help. You are the best, and this is the best site for cast boolets!

Abenaki

[Winger Ed.]

Cool.

Since I'm too lazy to trim pistol brass:
I use a taper crimp. Sometimes a short case doesn't get the flare totally rolled back in.
They still shoot OK, but sometimes the edge of the slightly flared out case mouth will hang up and fail to feed.

[Dave W.]

Glad you got it figured out. I do not think that changing the lube made any difference. I have used, probably, a dozen different types of lube without issues.

[charlie b]

Don't forget to do a 'push' test to make sure the chambering action doesn't shove the bullet back in the case.

[jdgabbard]

Carnuba Red definitely wasn't your problem. In my experience it is a superior lube to 50/50. Sounds like crimping was your problem in my opinion. Glad you got it worked out.

[gwpercle]

Sorry, that I have not gotten back to you sooner.

With bad weather and work. I could not test my reloads with the changes that I made, till todat.

thanks to you guys my problems are solved!

I was over crimping big time. I did not know this till I was into the problem solving.

What did I do. I stopped crimping. Just smoothed out the flare in the case mouth.

I also went from lubing with Carnuba red, to using a 50/5o that I had laying around.
Since I broke the rule of only changing one thing at a time. I do not know if the lube was a problem.

But, that is not a problem. That will give me the excuse to try different lube.......which means more shooting for me!

Thanks guys for all of you help. You are the best, and this is the best site for cast boolets!

Abenaki

I have discovered that in Handgun loads , soft lubes usually work better than Hard lubes. In 50 + years casting , reloading and shooting handguns ... the soft lubes just work better . My first choice was original NRA 50-50 (Alox-Beeswax) but after the formula for Alox was changed a Lube Maker suggested I try Lithium-Beeswax ... he felt it was a better lube than New Alox was ... and he was right .
I keep coming back to good old Lithi-Bee because it works .
I'm a firm believe in Soft Handgun Lube .

And yes the over crimping can also cause problems ...
I find the 9mm Luger to be a real Stinker with cast boolits ...it gave me Fits!

Glad to hear you got the "Promlem" solved :drinks: Congratulations !
Gary

[1eyedjack]

Unfortunately I just got through a frustrating day with my glockoff 9mm. Loaded up some 356-147 truncated lee powder coated bullets trying to duplicate the very tight crimp from an older handloader article. Bad mistake. Swaged down the bullet,discovered it is possible to over chamber a round causing failure to fire and light primer strikes then the dreaded leading from the undersized bullets. Not a productive shooting day but learned a lot from the process! Seat the bullet to the shoulder use a slight taper crimp and try again later! It was an awesome day spent with family and that's what really matters! Besides now I need to do this again to work up an accurate reliable load.

[Dave W.]

Unfortunately I just got through a frustrating day with my glockoff 9mm. Loaded up some 356-147 truncated lee powder coated bullets trying to duplicate the very tight crimp from an older handloader article. Bad mistake. Swaged down the bullet,discovered it is possible to over chamber a round causing failure to fire and light primer strikes then the dreaded leading from the undersized bullets. Not a productive shooting day but learned a lot from the process! Seat the bullet to the shoulder use a slight taper crimp and try again later! It was an awesome day spent with family and that's what really matters! Besides now I need to do this again to work up an accurate reliable load.

Any day we learn something is a good day. Enjoy the process.

[Abenaki]

Don't forget to do a 'push' test to make sure the chambering action doesn't shove the bullet back in the case.

I did that.
Thanks for the reminder to do it. Some one reading this post may need that info.

Thanks
Abenaki

[charlie b]

I did that.
Thanks for the reminder to do it. Some one reading this post may need that info.

Thanks
Abenaki

YW Have fun with yours.

[lead chucker]

9mm is a challenge thats for sure for me any way. I always get leading in my pistols no mater what i try. My Kel Teck sub 2000 doesn't lead at all and is very accurate with cast boolits. I have three 9mm pistols and i have tried every thing i can think of and they all lead the barrell.

[mehavey]

Maybe I'm just lucky, as I have had zero issues loading w/ any any/all of these combinations:
(Note #2 alloy, and 0.357 Size)

322755
YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY -- so for entertainment only [smilie=p:

[higgins]

Your sizing die should size the case down enough to provide enough bullet tension to keep the bullet from being pushed deeper into the case during the feeding cycle with a moderate taper crimp. That's what you want to prevent in 9mm because pressures can rise quickly if bullets are "seated" deeper by the gun. A revolver crimp allows the round to chamber and keep the bullet from slipping forward under recoil while the 9mm crimp allows the round to chamber and provide some grip to the bullet.

If you're not already using one, a Lyman M-die expands the case enough to get the cast bullet started without shaving lead during seating. Apply the taper crimp in a separate step and you won't be shaving lead the powder coating from the bullet. I've pulled a lot of cast bullets from reloaded 9mm rounds I pick up at the range and I'd estimate a third of them have damaged powder coating from not enough flaring and from seating and crimping in one operation.

[1Iron]

There have been several comments about the amount of taper crimp to apply. I know too much crimp can cause pressure to rise. How are you determining light vs. heavy crimp? I thought the correct method was to have about .002" smaller OD at the crimp compared to just above where the base of the bullet is located. Let me know how you determine the proper amount of taper crimp on your automatic ammo.

1Iron

[murf205]

"I find the 9mm Luger to be a real Stinker with cast boolits ...it gave me Fits!"
Gary, I'll bet I read these same words or close to them a zillion times so I never cast a single 9mm boolit for years. One day I was prowling my LGS and there was a box of dusty Magnus 9mm 147 gr boolits with a sticker price of about 1/2 what they were selling for everywhere else. Must have been there 10 yrs. Well, me being notoriously cheap, I bought them home and figured what the hey, I'll load then on top of a load of Blue Dot which has a bad rap in some 9mm circles. I gave the combo every chance to disappoint but it turned in some decent groups and 1050 fps speeds in my Ruger SR9. Fast forward to 2023 and I tried them in my Sig P365 and they beat everything else I loaded and factory too. These Magnus boolits are pretty soft and the box marked .356 but they mic'd .357 (probably why I had no leading). Now kicking myself for not diving in sooner.

[jdgabbard]

Personally I’ve never seen what the fuss is about with the 9mm. I’ve never had any significant leading with the cartridge in any of my guns. I seat and crimp separately using a taper crimp die. As a matter of fact I use less taper crimp than is recommended. And I don’t get setbacks in my AR9 SBR with a VERY HARD CYCLING system…it only cycles about 3”, see picture for reference.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240209/92ae43d5713c57074c7977c15173a2fb.jpg

[BD]

Don't forget to do a 'push' test to make sure the chambering action doesn't shove the bullet back in the case.

I agree with this. There are those who currently promote the idea that the taper crimp only needs to remove the flare at the case mouth. I disagree, and believe that the saami spec crimp , (also what is recommended in every reloading manual I have read) is more correct and improves both reliability and safety. The case mouth should be slightly impressed into the surface of the bullet so that it cannot be pushed deeper into the case when it hits the feed ramp on the way into the chamber. This takes some carefull adjustment as too much crimp will interfer with the headspacing, and also can loosen the neck tension with some crimp dies.

[Handloader109]

Minor crimp is all that is necessary. It took me a while to figure stuff out for the 9mm, but once I did, it's easy enough. The one thing I finally did was buy a gauge. I ordered a 100 round gauge from Armanov. If it fits the gauge, it works in all my guns.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[mehavey]

Just straighten out the mouth/flare to .378-.379.
No crimp (per se) req'd when that done.

[Rapier]

If you go to truncated cone 124 hard cast, with a taper crimp to a straight case in something with square cut lands and grooves, it might help. Then you adjust the OAL plus feed ramp to feed, plus adjust the mag lips. The 124 increases the bearing surface about 50% over the 115 RN tea cup design.

[murf205]

One reason I was tentative about loading 9mm's was that I was under the false impression that the entire neck area holding the boolit had to be taper crimped. It stemmed from a lack of research in retrospect. When I realized, thanks to the very learn-ed people on this site, It only takes a small amount of crimp to do the job. In fact, if I had done what I had originally envisioned, I would have probably inadvertently sized the boolit too much and caused blow by=leading.

[fredj338]

There have been several comments about the amount of taper crimp to apply. I know too much crimp can cause pressure to rise. How are you determining light vs. heavy crimp? I thought the correct method was to have about .002" smaller OD at the crimp compared to just above where the base of the bullet is located. Let me know how you determine the proper amount of taper crimp on your automatic ammo.

1Iron

Imo, you cant taper crimp enough to raise pressures. It will more likely cause a loss of neck tension & reduced pressures.
If you go to PC, you should never have leading issues 9mm. I shoot my own PC cast in multiple 9mm, all sized to 0.357” with zero leading issues.