Alliant Red Dot is it dirty in hand gun

[doc1876]

I have an opportunity to pick up some alliant Red Dot at a reasonable price, I'm very spoiled by my IMR 4221 and how clean it is. Seems how the Red Dot is designed for shotgun, I'm wondering how clean it actually is in a handgun. I've got some good load information, but I figure if I'm going to clean a gun I'll use black powder, it cleans so much easier.
Thanks in advance
Steve

[rintinglen]

if you'd rather load black powder than Red Dot, knock yourself out.
I loaded something in excess of 35 pounds worth of Red Dot in 38 wadcutters, 2.8 grains at a time, back in the late 70's and early 80's well over 70,000 rounds. I found it quite accurate and significantly cheaper than bullseye. I do not consider it to be particularly dirty, but I clean my guns after each use.

[Three44s]

4221 or 4227?

I use red dot in some HG loads. It is dirty but it responds well (cleans up some) to inside flashole deburring.

Due to that experience and others, I perform that operation on ALL my metallic centerfire rounds that I handload.

Three44s

[P Flados]

I use the Promo (the "bulk" version).

I am about 3/4 done on my third 8# jug.

It has been used in high quantity loads for revolvers, a 380, a 9mm and my TC contenders.

Some of these loads have Quickload pressures down at ~10,000 psi and some are up over 25,000 psi.

I do not consider it dirty. Unlike rintenglen, many of these guns get little or nothing in the way of routine cleaning. Even when I do some cleaning, I usually just look inside the bore and leave the barrel as is.

My biggest functional issue with the powder is that my RCBS uniflow does not like throwing charges less than about 3 gr. The other issues are of course the lack of routine availability and the magnitude of the price increases for Alliant powders.

[Uncle Grinch]

Never had any real issues with Red Dot. While not the cleanest burning, I don’t find it objectionable.

[Recycled bullet]

I have an opportunity to pick up some alliant Red Dot at a reasonable price, I'm very spoiled by my IMR 4221 and how clean it is. Seems how the Red Dot is designed for shotgun, I'm wondering how clean it actually is in a handgun. I've got some good load information, but I figure if I'm going to clean a gun I'll use black powder, it cleans so much easier.
Thanks in advance
SteveI have noticed Alliant red dot is cleaner burning than IMR4227 when used in handgun reloading recipes. Both powders produce carbon soot if the pressure is too low. In my own personal testing Red dot is very fast and is better for 38 special and light 9mm loadings, IMR4227 is a very slow handgun/ fast rifle powder and is especially good for heavy 357 magnum and reduced 308 Winchester loadings. They both can be flexible.

There remains additional versatility. 4227 can function standard pressure 38 special with 160 grain bullets and red dot can be used in reduced center fire rifle loadings.

[schutzen-jager]

no problems with Red Dot at all - thousands of pistol, rifle, +,shot shells loads in past 6 decades -

[dverna]

I have used more Promo (Red Dot that is not tweaked to load by volume) than any other powder. Well in excess of 125 lbs. It is my favorite powder for Trap loads and they are low pressure loads.

I only need four powders to load everything I shoot (9mm to .357Mag, .223 to .308, and 12 ga) and it was one those "stocking powders". It is now hard to get and a lot more expensive so I may be switching to something else.

BTW, last year I sold eight 8lb jugs to my buddy who still shoots trap because he wanted/needed it, and I stopped shooting trap competitively. It is the only component I regret selling.

If you can get a good deal on Red Dot, you should gobble it up. Even if you do not like it (hard to believe) you can trade it to someone like me who values it.

[Budzilla 19]

I have loaded multiple kegs of Red Dot in the past 50+ years of loading shotgun, pistol, and only recently, rifle loads! I can’t find fault with it in any form. Just my opinion.

[GhostHawk]

I load virtually everything with Red Dot/promo and have seen no problems at all. I've seen several powders that leave much more soot and dirt than Red Dot.

Most of my reloading is done with Ben's Liquid Lube (old recipe) with 1% Carnuba wax added which leaves a firm dry outside on the bullet. Bores look like polished mirrors.

My favorite powder by a long shot.

I did have sooty cases in a 1911 .45acp, but increased the load half a grain and the problem went away.

[doc1876]

I thank you guys very much, what everyone here is saying is what I suspected but was looking for some confirmation. I have a friend that shoots w-231 exclusively, he loves it but my Lord his gun is dirty when he's done. As I said earlier I like my IMR 4227 and I'm becoming very fond of my CFE pistol. Looks like I'm going to have a new favorite powder.
Again thank you.
Steve

[SSGOldfart]

I load virtually everything with Red Dot/promo and have seen no problems at all. I've seen several powders that leave much more soot and dirt than Red Dot.

Most of my reloading is done with Ben's Liquid Lube (old recipe) with 1% Carnuba wax added which leaves a firm dry outside on the bullet. Bores look like polished mirrors.

My favorite powder by a long shot.

I did have sooty cases in a 1911 .45acp, but increased the load half a grain and the problem went away.

Same here

[Soundguy]

At this point.. if you can LOCATE and buy powder.. even if it is a backup powder.. I'd get it.. never know when the day will come and your main powder is out and you wish you had that can of red dot that was so dirty...

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

All the Dot powders are designed to burn completely and relatively clean at a certain pressure, designed for shotgun. For handgun, if you are below that pressure, you will likely see some unburnt granules and maybe some soot, which is usually accentuated by lube type.
Years back, I stumbled into a large quantity of red dot from a widow of a shotgunner. So I've used it a lot. In 41mag, 6.5 to 7.0gr burn real clean. I've loaded it in 9 and 40 as well with same results(starting loads). Now, 38spl or 45colt, you'll likely notice some crud.
Good Luck.
PS, now that Alliant has increased pricing, Red Dot and Promo are probably no longer the bargain they use to be.

[dverna]

At this point.. if you can LOCATE and buy powder.. even if it is a backup powder.. I'd get it.. never know when the day will come and your main powder is out and you wish you had that can of red dot that was so dirty...

More good advice. I have bought powders I have never used when the price is right. It is surprising how frugally you can shoot. Or, like stated above, be able to shoot at all if things go south. Powder lasts a very long time if stored away from excessive heat.

There is a thread on Golden Powder. Something like that, for me, is a last resort but I am following it JIC (Just In Case). I have quite a bit of powder, and will get more, but someday having a backup plan might be necessary.

[Electrod47]

For decades I burned through 6 to 8 pounds of Red Dot annually. 100% in large bore handguns...never had an issue. Never thought my clean up was excessive.. I keep a running inventory today of at least 10lbs of Red Dot on hand because if things go south I can still keep all my guns running on "The Load"

[Soundguy]

More good advice. I have bought powders I have never used when the price is right. It is surprising how frugally you can shoot. Or, like stated above, be able to shoot at all if things go south. Powder lasts a very long time if stored away from excessive heat.

There is a thread on Golden Powder. Something like that, for me, is a last resort but I am following it JIC (Just In Case). I have quite a bit of powder, and will get more, but someday having a backup plan might be necessary.

yep..I'm not a fan of position sensitive powder..like bullseye.. even though it has many ( especially pistol ) applications.. but i do own enough of it that I could replace my titegroup loads with it if ever needed. IE. backup powder..

[jdgabbard]

Red Dot is one of my absolute favorite powders for pistols. I have a REALLY hard time justifying the use of something other than Red Dot for any standard pistol caliber. It's fantastic in everything I've shot it in. I do not think it is any dirty than any other pistol powder. Certainly not as dirty as say, Unique. Which, ironically is also in the running for my favorite pistol powder.... That said, the pros of Red Dot greatly outweigh any supposed dirtiness it may have. It is a bulky for weight powder that better fills 9mm and 45 cases than Unique or Bullseyes. It's fast burning, and burns complete.

One con it has is that it can be somewhat temperamental at higher pressures - i.e. it can create pressure spikes at higher loadings, at least according to what I've read. Which is why they've started to remove some of the older data from the current loading manuals. I think this has to do with the changes in how we measure pressure... Anyhow, I absolutely love the powder. My go to 9mm FMJ load is a 115gr FMJ over 4.3gr of Red Dot. A great load I have for the 7.62x25 is 4.5gr under a 90gr Cast RNFP. 45 ACP, I like a 230gr pill over 5gr of Red Dot. 38spl, while I prefer 5gr of Unique with a 158gr boolit, I also use 4gr of Red Dot with adequate results.

Red Dot can also be used with Rifles!!! Seriously, check out "The Load": https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/thread/1387-the-load-is-13-grains-of-red-dot/

My opinion is that if you found a good deal on Red Dot, snap it up as quickly as you can. That stuff is currently going for $380+ for an 8lb Jug locally (Tulsa @ Dong's). Too expensive for me to bite at that price. My last 4lb jug cost me $140, and I'm still using it...though sparingly, as I don't want to run out any time soon.

[stubshaft]

I have found Red Dot to be one of the MOST useful powders I have ever used. I have shot it in .357's for PPC and .45's for Bianchi (yeah, I'm that old) 12 ga. trap and skeet loads for ATA and NSSA shoots plus use it to fireform brass for cartridge conversions and forming wildcats. I have probably burned well in excess of 100 pounds of it.

[doc1876]

Well, again thank you very much. I guess that settles it, I'll buy it.
I called alliant and talked to them also earlier today. They gave me a few clues and hints, one which is to look in the lineman reloading handbook for cast bullets, so off I go on another adventure!!!

[Soundguy]

Lyman cast bullet handbook is a fantastic tool.

[Harter66]

Qualifier my lot is 1968 Hercules.

I've mastered getting Hercules Unique clean . Red Dot has proven very sooty in 38 ,9mm , & 357 . I may give it another go for 45 S&W . I didn't care for it in 12 ga .
I might give it a go in 25 ACP or a 22-25 ACP if I get around to that .

I only have about 10# left in the 12# keg .

[jdgabbard]

Qualifier my lot is 1968 Hercules.

I've mastered getting Hercules Unique clean . Red Dot has proven very sooty in 38 ,9mm , & 357 . I may give it another go for 45 S&W . I didn't care for it in 12 ga .
I might give it a go in 25 ACP or a 22-25 ACP if I get around to that .

I only have about 10# left in the 12# keg .

If you don't like it, I'd be happy to dispose of it for you. :D