filler ??

[jdsingleshot]

I've never used dacron filler or any other with reduced loads, so I have no experience.

But I have always wondered if burned/melted dacron leaves any residue. I suspect it does not leave anything noticeable, since I have never heard that it does.

A related thought, has anyone used cotton ball fluff instead of dacron?

I have no opinion on these questions. Just curious.

Jim

[Larry Gibson]

I've shot a bajillion rounds with dacron filler over the years and never had any residue left in the barrel. I've posted a thread that is a "sticky" on how to use the dacron filler correctly.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers

Years ago, before settling on dacron for the filler I tried other things including cotton. Ruined a new pair of sneakers stomping out a fire that a burning cotton ball started in front of the bench one time. Haven't used cotton since.

[Rockindaddy]

Kapok really works good for keeping the powder charge against the primer. Have a bunch of old life preservers that have plastic bags filled with the stuff. Never tried dacron for filler.

[charlie b]

I've also used cotton batting 'fluffed up'. It works, but, as Larry pointed out it does keep burning when it leaves the tube.

Dacron (along with the various polyester batting products) basically melts. I suspect it either is consumed by the burning gun powder or is ejected in a liquid form.

If you don't want to go to the store, and don't mind risking the fallout, most pillows and cushions have some poly batting in them. :)

Go back and read up on Larry's filler sticky. Just in case you don't, this is not a 'wad'. Very, very little is used. It is not compressed at all, actually the opposite, fluff it up a bit.

[ulav8r]

I fired one round with dacron filler that left residue in the barrel. That was in 1968. It was a light load of Unique in a 308 using a bullet pulled from mil surplus 30/06. The bullet traveled about 12 FEET past the muzzle. Heavier loads left no noticeable residue but I switched to cream of wheat for a short while. Have not used a filler since 1969.

[Sasquatch-1]

I have used it in light 44 mag loads. If you have ever used powder coated bullets, it's kind of the same thing. Like a plastic. I have also tried dryer lint. It works OK if you don't mind the occasional hairs sticking out of your finished rounds.[smilie=1:

[Larry Gibson]

I fired one round with dacron filler that left residue in the barrel. That was in 1968. It was a light load of Unique in a 308 using a bullet pulled from mil surplus 30/06. The bullet traveled about 12 FEET past the muzzle. Heavier loads left no noticeable residue but I switched to cream of wheat for a short while. Have not used a filler since 1969.

The key to using a dacron filler, like other things, is to use it correctly. You're first attempt back in '69 was not a correct use especially with a light load of fast burning Unique with a jacketed bullet.

[Outpost75]

Easiest way is to buy quilt batting. A one-inch square weighs about a grain, is easily tucked into the case neck with a small screwdriver, then it flares out to fill the shoulder area.

[Shawlerbrook]

Besides fires, isn’t possible moisture absorption a possible problem with cotton as opposed to the synthetic fibers ?
Also, is there a list or rule that guides when a filler is necessary ? It seems that in many manuals and/or websites( I don’t see filler recommendations on the Hodgdon site) don’t always say when a filler is recommended/required.

[Edward]

I've also used cotton batting 'fluffed up'. It works, but, as Larry pointed out it does keep burning when it leaves the tube.

Dacron (along with the various polyester batting products) basically melts. I suspect it either is consumed by the burning gun powder or is ejected in a liquid form.

If you don't want to go to the store, and don't mind risking the fallout, most pillows and cushions have some poly batting in them. :)

Go back and read up on Larry's filler sticky. Just in case you don't, this is not a 'wad'. Very, very little is used. It is not compressed at all, actually the opposite, fluff it up a bit.

In my 45/70 1/2 grain Dacron over 25.5 grains of 2400 powder ,been the same load forever with a NOE 350 gr FN /Ed

[wilecoyote]

learned my first time from an old G&A article, I use dacron in all my redux,
while it would probably only be advisable in postion-sensitive powder reduced loads.
in bottleneck or straight cases however it has never given me any problems_
never tried, but I wouldn't use cotton for the reason suggested by Shawlerbrook_

[charlie b]

Besides fires, isn’t possible moisture absorption a possible problem with cotton as opposed to the synthetic fibers ?
Also, is there a list or rule that guides when a filler is necessary ? It seems that in many manuals and/or websites( I don’t see filler recommendations on the Hodgdon site) don’t always say when a filler is recommended/required.

I would not worry about moisture since the case is sealed when it is loaded.

'They' don't recommend it since 'they' don't recommend reduced loads (except for Hodgdon's H4895 loads). I don't ever remember seeing any manuals with recommendations for fillers.

Lyman has this in their Cast Bullet Handbook. But, they don't say when to use it or when not to.

--------------------
Effect of Wad vs No Wad

#311291 in 30-06 & #457122 in 45-70 ( R u g e r Chamber)

D a c r o n W a d s , 1/4 T h i c k , Cut in 5/8 Squares

Bullets #311291 #457122
30-06 45-70
W i t h W i t h o u t W i t h W i t h o u t

Velocity,
Avg. 2140 2130 1893 1852
Max. 2155 2146 1911 1915
Min. 2124 2117 1859 1681
Spread 31 29 52 234
Std. Dev. 11.5 10.2 18.1 80.2
Pressure
Avg. CUP 37.000 35,600 37,700 32,600
Max. 38,600 38,100 40,200 39,200
Min. 33,700 33,200 33,200 17,200
Spread 4900 4900 7000 22,000
Std. Dev. 1660 1409 2353 8135

When developing a load, if a wad is desired, it should be used
from the beginning as the charge weight is increased. It should
never be added as an afterthought once a maximum load has
been established since its presence could result in a pressure
increase of 2,000 CUP or more.

(sorry, the editor won't let me align columns).

[Chill Wills]

Which addition of Lyman cast bullet handbook is this from, please?

[Shawlerbrook]

Charlie, don’t know if they are considered “reduced” loads, but I was talking about the Trapdoor 45 70 loads on the Hodgdon site. Many powders, no mention of fillers.

[charlie b]

That was the 3rd edition.

I would say that if Hodgdon doesn't specify a filler then they don't recommend one.

But, it doesn't mean that you can't use one. Like I mentioned, except for the Lyman manual I don't remember seeing anything about fillers from one the the mfgs.

[Larry Gibson]

Unfortunately, the use of a dacron filler has been lumped into the use of a wad which is not the case at all. However, the persistent fear of a "ringed chamber" is ever present in many minds and the distinction between the two is lost. I have shot thousands upon thousands of rounds using a dacron filler with proper loads over the years w/o any problems. Many of those have been chronographed and even pressure tested. There has never been any indication of higher than expected velocity/pressure with any.

[charlie b]

I was sad to see Lyman used the term 'wad' instead of 'filler' when describing the use of dacron as a filler.

IMHO, the distinction is critical.

[Larry Gibson]

Back before I learned to use dacron as a filler I used it as a wad. before that I tried numerous other materials for wads as mentioned in writings in books and magazines. Early on though, when I started using Javalina lube the wax paper wrapper offered a large bunch of dacron for 25 cents with simple instructions on how to use it. That and from reading about the dacron wad in the #3 CBH got me using it. I found when single loading the cartridges into the rifle everything worked well, very well actually. However, when using cartridges with wads of dacron during my walk abouts with repeaters I had a tendency to fill the mag back up after shooting just one or two shots. With heavier charges of powders such as 4895 and 3031 and heavier bullets I would often get some hang fires [click...bank] when I fired the remaining shots in the magazine that had been there for several shots. The problem was exacerbated when I used my 450-400-70 Siamese Mauser. I found under recoil, the dacron wads in the cartridges in the magazine would be pushed forward to the base of the bullet and many times the powder would even migrate to between the dacron wad and the bullet. Hence, the click ...bangs.

Then I read about using the dacron as a filler and once I did that the entire problem went away. After much experimentations with various cartridges using different powders I found the dacron filler is beneficial in some but not others [such as recommended in my thread on the proper use of dacron fillers].

[Edward]

Naysayers should read ,then read again Larry's thread on Dacron (I did) and he was right then and still is !/Ed

[405grain]

As stated above, the dacron/polyester fill material is very similar to the material used when powder coating bullets. When properly used it doesn't leave a residue in the bore. The filler is used to take up the air space between the back of the bullet and the powder column, and hold the powder back against the primer flash hole. This provides better ignition with medium to slower burning powders, or powders that are position sensitive. Fillers are not required with quicker burning double based powders that are usually used in pistol loads. These powders are generally position insensitive, and ignite easily. Fill materials should not be packed down tightly against the powder, but should be left "fluffy" to take up the space inside the cartridge case.

Cream of wheat is a bad choice of fill material in bottle-necked cartridges. Upon cartridge ignition the cream of wheat will compress to the density of wood. It works very well in straight walled cartridges, and can even serve as a kind of gas seal as well as a filler. In a bottle-necked cartridge it can cause pressure issues as this (basically a chunk of wood) gets swaged down by the case shoulder so it can pass out the case mouth. Polyester fill is vastly superior to cream of wheat in any bottle-necked cartridge. Cream of wheat is useful when fire forming brass, but I wouldn't choose it as a filler material on other loads.